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MisterDDDD
No other country has been this far into the pandemic and still had the number of cases growing at the rates the U.S. is seeing.



[www.ft.com]

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Happy24

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ThePaleRider

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Happy24


How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

This kind of talk infuriates me...Cornovirus is much more contagious than the common flu, mutates more rapidly than the common flu, has a much higher death rate than the common flu and it is an ANIMAL virus. It's the future consequences that has the world in a panic.

I didn't mean to infuriate anybody.

I posted a scientific article with data and numbers about flu in Italy. Which you deleted from the quote, so plese, if you want to quote me the next time, quote my whole message, not just the part that suits you. It is up to everybody what he/she makes out of the data. If anybody chooses to be infuriated, it is his/her choice.

I post the link to the article again, since that was the crucial part of my post, not the sentence that you took out of context.

[www.sciencedirect.com]

And about "much higher death rate" - there is this useful site that was already posted here before with actual numbers from different countries, which shows that the death rate is very different for different countries:

[www.worldometers.info]

One possible explanation of the very high death rate in Italy is in the article I originally posted. That was the purpose of my post. But feel free to be infuriated...

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Happy24

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ThePaleRider

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Happy24


How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

This kind of talk infuriates me...Cornovirus is much more contagious than the common flu, mutates more rapidly than the common flu, has a much higher death rate than the common flu and it is an ANIMAL virus. It's the future consequences that has the world in a panic.

I didn't mean to infuriate anybody.


I posted a scientific article with data and numbers about flu in Italy. Which you deleted from the quote, so plese, if you want to quote me the next time, quote my whole message, not just the part that suits you. It is up to everybody what he/she makes out of the data. If anybody chooses to be infuriated, it is his/her choice.

I post the link to the article again, since that was the crucial part of my post, not the sentence that you took out of context.

[www.sciencedirect.com]

And about "much higher death rate" - there is this useful site that was already posted here before with actual numbers from different countries, which shows that the death rate is very different for different countries:

[www.worldometers.info]

One possible explanation of the very high death rate in Italy is in the article I originally posted. That was the purpose of my post. But feel free to be infuriated...

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Happy24
I found an extremely interesting article about flu epidemics in Italy in the past few years:

[www.sciencedirect.com]

The article is from November 2019

It says: "Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly."

It says that 68.000 people died in Italy because of flu between 2013-2017. 25.000 people died because of flu in Italy just in the season 2016-17.

Isn't the current situation pretty much what happens annualy in this part of the World?

I mean in our country we have 900 cases and 0 deaths. One starts to think, that it might be because of different level of health care. But that makes no sense. If we were to follow Italy, which our politicians keep on repeating, we would have to have 80 people dead. That amount of people is not even hospitalized. They are at home and they get no medical treatment whatsoever. There are 7 serious cases and the level of medical care will take part in whether they survive or not. But it has pretty much zero impact on the rest of the cases.

So...?

How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

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bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

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keefriff99

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bv

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keefriff99
Singapore is basically a police state with fancy malls. They have a compliant citizenry, which isn't possible in a country like America.

I'm not saying that we couldn't be doing MUCH more in America, but it's not a good comparison.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong and China are all doing extensive testing, and tracing back every positive person, their moving around, then contacting every person they have been near for quarantine procedures and protection of the rest of their population.

I think that is smart and important actions if you want to contain this virus, or any other diseases. To claim some of these countries might have a different political system vs your own preferences is a total side track at a time when thousands of people are infected and now dead, also in USA, UK, Europe and so on.

No, it's not about preferences, it's about governments getting their citizens to behave in a certain way.

It's very safe to say that citizens in Singapore are probably more used to following government edicts than in America. We all love our freedom here, but there's also a massive conspiratorial community here that thinks any government action is a sign of some coming martial law crackdown. People are being willfully stupid here just to show they're not following the herd.

The extreme steps taken in China couldn't be done in America without a full-blown crisis.

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kovach

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keefriff99

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bv

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keefriff99
Singapore is basically a police state with fancy malls. They have a compliant citizenry, which isn't possible in a country like America.

I'm not saying that we couldn't be doing MUCH more in America, but it's not a good comparison.

Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong and China are all doing extensive testing, and tracing back every positive person, their moving around, then contacting every person they have been near for quarantine procedures and protection of the rest of their population.

I think that is smart and important actions if you want to contain this virus, or any other diseases. To claim some of these countries might have a different political system vs your own preferences is a total side track at a time when thousands of people are infected and now dead, also in USA, UK, Europe and so on.

No, it's not about preferences, it's about governments getting their citizens to behave in a certain way.

It's very safe to say that citizens in Singapore are probably more used to following government edicts than in America. We all love our freedom here, but there's also a massive conspiratorial community here that thinks any government action is a sign of some coming martial law crackdown. People are being willfully stupid here just to show they're not following the herd.

The extreme steps taken in China couldn't be done in America without a full-blown crisis.

I think it may have to do with population size too, easier to get 6M people in Singapore to comply than 300M in the U.S.

China's a whole other matter...

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daspyknows

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bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

The reporter actually tossed the reporter a softball question. People are scared, what would you tell them. It was really a bad look. The person to listen to for facts is actually NY Governor Cuomo. Things are pretty bad in NY but he is providing leadership. The biggest issue is lack of personal protective gear for health care workers and lack of ventilators. That is making the situation dire.

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daspyknows

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Happy24
I found an extremely interesting article about flu epidemics in Italy in the past few years:

[www.sciencedirect.com]

The article is from November 2019

It says: "Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly."

It says that 68.000 people died in Italy because of flu between 2013-2017. 25.000 people died because of flu in Italy just in the season 2016-17.

Isn't the current situation pretty much what happens annualy in this part of the World?

I mean in our country we have 900 cases and 0 deaths. One starts to think, that it might be because of different level of health care. But that makes no sense. If we were to follow Italy, which our politicians keep on repeating, we would have to have 80 people dead. That amount of people is not even hospitalized. They are at home and they get no medical treatment whatsoever. There are 7 serious cases and the level of medical care will take part in whether they survive or not. But it has pretty much zero impact on the rest of the cases.

So...?

How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

Come talk to us in 6 weeks with the deaths accelerating and let us know what you think.

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bv
Italian report today about how the coronavirus is reacting on warm weather:

Coronavirus, il Covid-19 non tiene conto delle temperature esterne by la Repubblica
English : Coronavirus, Covid-19 does not account for outside temperatures

Climate study by several Italian universities: "No relationship between the development of contagion and degrees Celsius in the environment, it is unlikely that the virus will be swept by the arrival of the heat". The tests carried out in Wuhan China, and in Lombardy and Veneto Italy.

.....

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daspyknows

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bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

The reporter actually tossed the reporter a softball question. People are scared, what would you tell them. It was really a bad look. The person to listen to for facts is actually NY Governor Cuomo. Things are pretty bad in NY but he is providing leadership. The biggest issue is lack of personal protective gear for health care workers and lack of ventilators. That is making the situation dire.

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Nate
793 dead in Italy today.

Nate

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TheflyingDutchman
Seemingly the Corona COVID-19 virus can survive outside the body.

[www.livescience.com]

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bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

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Hairball
Interesting to see the "No Politics" rule being softened here on IORR, but at the same time shows why the rule was there in the first place.
And I say this as someone who is not a fan of Trump by any means....

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Hairball
Interesting to see the "No Politics" rule being softened here on IORR, but at the same time shows why the rule was there in the first place.
And I say this as someone who is not a fan of Trump by any means....

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jlowe
Whilst people are reporting the problem of stocks at Supermarkets little attention in the media to the potential problem of food supplies in the medium term. Singapore, for example imports 93% of its requirements. Others maybe less high, but with travel restrictions how will supplies be delivered?
Quite naturally the focus is on the medical front of course. Just a thought though.

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Hairball
Interesting to see the "No Politics" rule being softened here on IORR, but at the same time shows why the rule was there in the first place.
And I say this as someone who is not a fan of Trump by any means....