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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: March 21, 2020 21:32

I had a much better experience shopping this morning. Seeing the line snaking around Trader Joe's was anxiety inducing. But the line moved. There were the same amount of people that normally shop there, they just let in a fewer amount of people at a time. Once I was inside, they weren't out of the stuff I normally buy. Between a combination of the drug store and hardware store I found gloves, paper products and disinfecting cleaner. The only thing lacking is hand sanitizer and wipes. I don't think you can find masks anywhere. I have some from the time we had fires here last year.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-21 21:34 by ryanpow.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: March 21, 2020 21:48

Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: March 21, 2020 21:55

Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: WelshEdge1 ()
Date: March 21, 2020 22:16

Shouldn't Trump be self-isolating? He's old.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: March 21, 2020 23:07

Quote
WelshEdge1
Shouldn't Trump be self-isolating? He's old.

Yes perhaps self isolation on the planet Mars could be a suitable option.

Nate

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: March 21, 2020 23:32

Quote
ryanpow
Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Who really cares how Trump reacted to the reporters question? Not important at all. What is important s what he is doing about the crisis. Is he not doing everything he can? If anyone has any other ideas lets hear them. I don't like Trump and I don't think he is fit for office but I believe he is doing okay with this.

I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: March 21, 2020 23:53

Quote
stanlove
Quote
ryanpow
Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Who really cares how Trump reacted to the reporters question? Not important at all. What is important s what he is doing about the crisis. Is he not doing everything he can? If anyone has any other ideas lets hear them. I don't like Trump and I don't think he is fit for office but I believe he is doing okay with this.

I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

The United States governments on all levels in cooperation with industry are putting massive amounts of money and resources into this health crisis. They should be congratulated for coming together and working towards a common goal. In the next few days some bills will presumably be passed in Congress to continue the process and move it along.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: March 22, 2020 00:33

Quote
stanlove


I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

I let my opinion known from time to time, but you'll be hard pressed to find that from me, especially on here.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: chrisvw ()
Date: March 22, 2020 00:34

Quote
MileHigh
Quote
stanlove
Quote
ryanpow
Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Who really cares how Trump reacted to the reporters question? Not important at all. What is important s what he is doing about the crisis. Is he not doing everything he can? If anyone has any other ideas lets hear them. I don't like Trump and I don't think he is fit for office but I believe he is doing okay with this.

I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

The United States governments on all levels in cooperation with industry are putting massive amounts of money and resources into this health crisis. They should be congratulated for coming together and working towards a common goal. In the next few days some bills will presumably be passed in Congress to continue the process and move it along.

i totally agree,

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: StonedInTokyo ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:07

Quote
bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

President Trump is fed up with the fake news media framing everything within a negative context. For example, instead of asking "What would you tell Americans who are scared?" the so-called reporter could have asked, "What would you tell Americans to reassure them?"

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MAF ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:21

Anyone here from Spain?
Heard in the news: Experts say the healthcare system in Spain might collapse next week because of too many Corona cases.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:26


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:29

Quote
StonedInTokyo
Quote
bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

President Trump is fed up with the fake news media framing everything within a negative context. For example, instead of asking "What would you tell Americans who are scared?" the so-called reporter could have asked, "What would you tell Americans to reassure them?"

Doubt it would have mattered. He goes after reporters based on whom the work for or other reasons.

Bottom line is the US is f'ed. Not enough testing, not enough PPE, not enough ventilators, not enough hospital beds, not enough medical workers. Until some of that actually changes the country is going to ride the way just like Italy.

My observation is it is a matter of days or weeks the virus spreads through the coronavirus task force. They all stand close together, they all touch the microphone, some are touching their faces and I have yet to say anyone use hand sanitizer.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: erad ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:31

Quote
StonedInTokyo
Quote
bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

President Trump is fed up with the fake news media framing everything within a negative context. For example, instead of asking "What would you tell Americans who are scared?" the so-called reporter could have asked, "What would you tell Americans to reassure them?"

Turn off Fox dude.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: March 22, 2020 01:38

Quote
erad
Quote
StonedInTokyo
Quote
bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

President Trump is fed up with the fake news media framing everything within a negative context. For example, instead of asking "What would you tell Americans who are scared?" the so-called reporter could have asked, "What would you tell Americans to reassure them?"

Turn off Fox dude.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-19 18:22 by 2000 LYFH.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 22, 2020 03:04

Quote
ryanpow
Quote
stanlove


I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

I let my opinion known from time to time, but you'll be hard pressed to find that from me, especially on here.

I don't think stanlove was referring to you - pretty sure it was someone else who was just banned, and whose extreme/far left/hate-filled posts from earlier were deleted.

Quote
bv
Quote
Hairball
Interesting to see the "No Politics" rule being softened here on IORR, but at the same time shows why the rule was there in the first place.
And I say this as someone who is not a fan of Trump by any means....

Dirty Harry does not work at all hours, but sure between breaks there is action. There is not much room for political campaigns here. Everybody do know this.

thumbs up

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: March 22, 2020 03:41

It blows my mind that anybody thinks the US government is doing a good job, is keeping the public accurately informed, or has the right priorities. Many state governors and local mayors, however, of both parties, have really stepped up to the plate. The only problem is getting people to comply with the new restrictions (and, of course, the problem of getting enough tests).

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: March 22, 2020 03:50

Quote
stanlove
Quote
ryanpow
Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Who really cares how Trump reacted to the reporters question? Not important at all. What is important s what he is doing about the crisis. Is he not doing everything he can? If anyone has any other ideas lets hear them. I don't like Trump and I don't think he is fit for office but I believe he is doing okay with this.

I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

in fact he's doing so ok, that the US has almost 8000 new cases today, beating Italy's record, set earlier today.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: March 22, 2020 04:06

Quote
Aquamarine
It blows my mind that anybody thinks the US government is doing a good job, is keeping the public accurately informed, or has the right priorities. Many state governors and local mayors, however, of both parties, have really stepped up to the plate. The only problem is getting people to comply with the new restrictions (and, of course, the problem of getting enough tests).

Here: [www.politico.com]

<<< Senate Republicans and Democrats have yet to reach an overall deal on a massive economic rescue package in response to the coronavirus crisis — but the two sides are getting closer. And Senate GOP leaders said Saturday they will press ahead with drafting portions of the bill, which will cost at least $1.6 trillion, according to three GOP sources. >>>

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: March 22, 2020 04:16

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
stanlove
Quote
ryanpow
Quote
Doxa
Quote
bleedingman
I agree that Andrew Cuomo, whom I have never been a fan of, has stepped up admirably. Regarding Trump's response to the reporter, Trump isn't eloquent to say the least, BUT part of the reason for the daily briefings, in which he has members of his team speak and answer question, and in which he himself fields a plethora of questions, is to keep the public informed and reassure them that work is being done to stop the spread. Trump had spoken of the new anti-malarial drugs that were being tested and said that he was remaining optimistic and had a "good feeling" about them. The reporter then asked Trump if he wasn't giving the American people "false hope" over something that might not work. This is typical of most of the press who remain antagonistic to Trump, as usual. That is when Trump responded with the "terrible reporter" response. Trump was attempting to be reassuring and the reporter tried to belittle what he had said. Context is everything.

No, that's not accurate. Trump answered to the question about "false hope" by saying that 'it might work, it might not' and that he had a good feel about it or something. Then the NBC reporter asked 'What do you say to Americans who are scared?' Then Trump exploded and started calling the reporter names, etc. (which I find that rather odd, because the question was legitimate, and been asked from many, many political leaders around the world lately).

- Doxa.


The reporter spoke later about that last question and said he was throwing Trump a soft ball when he asked that, which he absolutely was.

Who really cares how Trump reacted to the reporters question? Not important at all. What is important s what he is doing about the crisis. Is he not doing everything he can? If anyone has any other ideas lets hear them. I don't like Trump and I don't think he is fit for office but I believe he is doing okay with this.

I do notice that every time I see someone attack him over this, that person has long history of anti Trump ranting.

in fact he's doing so ok, that the US has almost 8000 new cases today, beating Italy's record, set earlier today.

Yes and the United States is a big country with 330 million people. It's not a game of per capita new case rates (which incidentally gives America better numbers) it's about mobilizing resources and executing a plan. As of today that looks pretty good.

And if you are American (I don't know) a few months down the line chances are you are going to kiss the ground that you live in America and not in Brazil or in a country in Africa or in Indonesia. Can you imagine what the favellas in Brazil are going to be like when the pandemic hits full-force? It's going to be an absolute nightmare in many places in the world and in many places in the world they are going to be begging for Uncle Sam to come and rescue them.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: March 22, 2020 04:25

Quote
Aquamarine
It blows my mind that anybody thinks the US government is doing a good job, is keeping the public accurately informed, or has the right priorities. Many state governors and local mayors, however, of both parties, have really stepped up to the plate. The only problem is getting people to comply with the new restrictions (and, of course, the problem of getting enough tests).

Here: [www.barrons.com]

<<< Though 3M representatives did not return Barron’s requests for comment, a spokeswoman told The Washington Post the company has increased production of such masks at its U.S., China, Europe, and Latin American facilities, and is dedicating more of its output to health care rather than industrial customers.

“Those companies have now greatly increased by the tens of millions their production of so-called N95 masks that will give our health care workers the protection that they need to administer to those who are dealing with the symptoms or the disease of coronavirus,” Pence said in a press briefing Thursday, referring to 3M and Honeywell.

General Electric (GE) said its GE Healthcare subsidiary is committing more production lines to ventilators and adding shifts so lines can be active 24 hours a day.

Ford Motor (F) and General Motors (GM) have all commented publicly on the possibility of using their facilities to produce ventilators—a key piece of equipment in treating more serious Covid-19 cases.

“As America’s largest producer of vehicles and top employer of autoworkers, Ford stands ready to help the administration in any way we can, including the possibility of producing ventilators and other equipment,” Ford spokeswoman Rachel McCleery told Barron’s.

McCleery confirmed Ford has had preliminary discussions with the U.S. and U.K. governments and are looking into the feasibility of producing ventilators. “It’s vital that we all pull together to help the country weather this crisis and come out the other side stronger than ever,” she added.

A General Motors representative told Barron’s that, though early, it is evaluating such options, adding that the company is exploring how it can help.

Tesla (TSLA) CEO Elon Musk said in a Twitter post that his company could produce ventilators—if there were shortages.

“Tesla makes cars with sophisticated hvac systems,” Musk wrote on Twitter. “SpaceX makes spacecraft with life support systems. Ventilators are not difficult, but cannot be produced instantly. Which hospitals have these shortages you speak of right now?” >>>

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: WelshEdge1 ()
Date: March 22, 2020 04:31

Quote
StonedInTokyo
Quote
bv
I saw a report on our national TV today where the US president got very upset when asked on live TV in USA last night about what he would say to the people in USA if the old malaria drug did not "fix the problem", and it got worse. Then the journalist was told: "I say that you are a terrible reporter"

Then our national channel reported that Fox News are now saying the same as the rest of the press, this virus is not at all like the flu.

This reminds me of the statement: "Houston, we have a problem"

The most important task now is to give people accurate and reliable information. Test, test, test, action, action, action, facts, facts, facts.

Trump viciously attacks NBC News reporter in extended rant after being asked for message to Americans worried about coronavirus by CNN

'We have a responsibility': Fox News declares coronavirus a crisis in abrupt U-turn by The Guardian

Tucker Carlson: The coronavirus will get worse -- our leaders need to stop lying about that by Fox News

President Trump is fed up with the fake news media framing everything within a negative context. For example, instead of asking "What would you tell Americans who are scared?" the so-called reporter could have asked, "What would you tell Americans to reassure them?"

It was such an easy question to answer. He's the problem.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: March 22, 2020 04:33

Joyless division tears us apart...

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: March 22, 2020 06:30

Intelligence agencies were warning those in power in Washington as early as January that it was likely a pandemic would happen and yet the people in power did very little apart from selling off stocks as they knew what was coming.

Nate



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-22 06:32 by Nate.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: March 22, 2020 06:30

Quote
Happy24
I found an extremely interesting article about flu epidemics in Italy in the past few years:

[www.sciencedirect.com]

The article is from November 2019

It says: "Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly."

It says that 68.000 people died in Italy because of flu between 2013-2017. 25.000 people died because of flu in Italy just in the season 2016-17.

Isn't the current situation pretty much what happens annualy in this part of the World?

I mean in our country we have 900 cases and 0 deaths. One starts to think, that it might be because of different level of health care. But that makes no sense. If we were to follow Italy, which our politicians keep on repeating, we would have to have 80 people dead. That amount of people is not even hospitalized. They are at home and they get no medical treatment whatsoever. There are 7 serious cases and the level of medical care will take part in whether they survive or not. But it has pretty much zero impact on the rest of the cases.

So...?

How come 68.000 dead people in Italy during four flu seasons (25.000 in one year!) was no global problem and 4.000 dead people by the end of March this year stop the World turning?

In fact, this question has also/already been asked by (respectable!) media in Europe, e.g. the Swiss "Neue Zürcher Zeitung": [www.nzz.ch]. Here the authors are wondering why, in view of the horrid numbers of flu infections and dead even in recent times, the borders weren't closed in earlier winters, gatherings or partying weren't forbidden already in earlier years, etc., and take a psychological approach: we react to novel risks ("shock risks") that hit us at once and out of the blue differently than we react to familiar risks stretching over a longer period of time, and therefore they also support comparisons.

They have a point at least insofar as we (in Europe) all know that each year hundreds of thousands (in each country) get infected with the flue and thousands die (in each country) and likewise we all know that there is a protective vaccination – and still hardly anyone gets vaccinated, despite constant pleas in the media to do so. To back this up with numbers: in the Winter of 2017/2018 we had ca. 440.000 flu infections in Austria and close to 2900 dead – both of which is quite a lot for a country with only 8,8 mill inhabitants – and still only 6,2% of the popuation went for getting vaccinated [wien.orf.at]. One has to add that the flu vaccination is really cheap (~15€), many institutions or companies have vaccination programs each winter where you even get your vaccination for free, and so on, and still nobody seems to give a damn.

Apart from psychological explanations as in the NZZ article refered to above, there is a very pragmatic reason for taking radical action: our hospitals are still full of flu patients (in addition to patients with other winter-related problems, or just whatever other problems), and having to hospitalize a similar number of Corona patients in addition to that is more than a serious threat even to the healthcare infrastructure in the better-developed Western European countries. To give you some numbers again: by the beginning of March the total number of flu infections in Austria (flu season 2019/2020) was 245.000, with presently still 129.000 active infections, several hundred people hospitalized and a little less than 700 dead. [www.wienerzeitung.at], [www.kleinezeitung.at], [wien.orf.at]
And mind you again, we're just a small county with a population of 8,8 mill, and our healthcare infrastructure certainly works better than its Italian counterpart! And by the way, in the flu season 2019/2020 again only 10% went for the protective vaccination.

My wife, who is (South) Italian, suggests that the high number of dead in Italy (from the flu as well as Corona) may also have a sociological component: she says that (in the South at least) the older generations often simply try to avoid doctors and basically see a doctor or a hospital only if things get really bad and someone else takes them there (relatives, or after an accident, etc.). Her brother-in-law, who is a doctor based in Campania, says more or less the same. That is, if at least to some extent true, many old people in Italy suffering from the flu or Corona get treatment only at an advanced stage of the illness, with several (potentially insufficiently treated) pre-existing conditions in addition. We've got a number of Italian IORRians, maybe they can also add their oppinions in this matter. BTW, said doctor in South Italy says they have good results treating Corona with a particular arthritis medication. Seemingly, this approach is now also pursued more seriously by larger official bodies. At least, I heard it on TV and it was also mentioned in an Austrian newspaper [kurier.at].

Comparing the Italian age distribution [de.statista.com] with the Austrian age distribution of Corona infections [www.vienna.at], the "sociological" factor would make sense insofar as older (already retired) Austrians are generally quite fond of seeing doctors and people in the age range of 25-54 yrs (where we have the highest number of infections) rather see a doctor only when they deem it strictly necessary (less time because still in a job, fear of losing the job, etc.; add to that the young folks' partying culture).

It is premature at present to speculate which of the two (flu and Corona) has the higher mortality rate or is more contagious. The way I understand it from the media, also the situation regarding potential mutations of the Corona virus is far from clear, and no good estimates can yet be made of the dark figure of infections. What we know for sure at present is that both of them are highly contagious and both take a considerable death toll.

What is generally not really being considered (not in the mass media over here, at least), is that the lockdown will (hopefully) not only lower the number of new Corona infections but will likewise lower the number of new flu infections.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 22, 2020 07:00


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: March 22, 2020 07:45

Quote
MileHigh
Quote
Aquamarine
It blows my mind that anybody thinks the US government is doing a good job, is keeping the public accurately informed, or has the right priorities. Many state governors and local mayors, however, of both parties, have really stepped up to the plate. The only problem is getting people to comply with the new restrictions (and, of course, the problem of getting enough tests).

Here: [www.barrons.com]

You can quote any number of articles, the fact remains that leadership is not coming from Washington and the impetus for the things that HAVE been done did not come from Washington. We have yet to see all the tests and equipment that our government assures us is available right now. However, this is not a partisan issue--as I said before, local governments of both parties are doing a much better job. Here in Louisiana, the Democratic Governor and Republican Senate are working well together and acting much more quickly than any decree from the White House.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: lem motlow ()
Date: March 22, 2020 10:30

I was literally a volunteer on the first Obama campaign and one of the wingnuts here went crazy on me ,calling me a right wing maniac and that I was “praying to my orange god” because I said Trump said something funny once.
It’s like no one is rational anymore, it’s all emotion.

We did some good things in there and screwed some shit up and so has he, it’s never gonna be perfect.
You can tell he just runs things like a business and puts people in charge of different sectors, the boss never knows all the details.

Those reporters hate his guts and that question was ridiculous,”how can you reassure people” the answer was “ what do you think we’re doing here everyday dipshit.”

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: March 22, 2020 11:02

Quote
bitusa2012
Perhaps because this president acts more like a petulant little child than an actual President?

Well I'll tell you what happens here (France). We have a presidential team beyond the highest levels of incompetence. They handled the crisis in the worst possible way (negating sth ugly was going to happen early March when it was still possible to reverse the course of things).

Therefore they didn't see the point in making massive orders of masks when it was still doable. Guess what happened next? Our beloved leaders explained to us that masks are useless and even dangerous.
Can you imagine a general leading his army to war without guns then explaining that guns are useless in a conflict...? Nurses and docs in hospitals have NO masks, they take huge risks doing their job.

Thanks to complicit TV medias our gov now tells us the virus spreads because of us, because of our own indiscipline. Yeah sure...

Guillotine time?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-22 12:23 by dcba.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MAF ()
Date: March 22, 2020 11:04


Bergamo, Italia (photo: dpa)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-22 11:05 by MAF.

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