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Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: BowieStone ()
Date: May 21, 2021 18:35

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Captain Teague
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NashvilleBlues
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Stoned80
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Rip This
Dude...the man is a racist and now a covid denier...how is society trash when we have this clown spewing his hate...maybe you are part of that trash?....go take a 5 min time out dude.

How is he a covid denier when he willfully got the vaccine? And stop with the racial accusations, you sound silly. That word is so overused nowadays it has no real meaning anymore

And yes, society is trash when so many people in it pass judgement on others for their personal opinions. I personally got the vaccine but I’d never judge someone else who doesn’t want to. It’s a personal choice, and anyone who would admonish someone else for not taking an experimental vaccine is indeed pure trash.

From People Magazine

By Tomás MierDecember 01, 2020 06:25 PM

"Not just leave the hall, leave our country... I don't want you here, in the room or in my country," he said in part.

"The Black w—s and c—s and Arabs and f—ing Jamaicans don't belong here, we don't want them here," Clapton added on stage then, using blatant racist slurs. "This is England, this is a white country, we don't want any Black w—s and c—s living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome."

The rant went on as he called England "a white country" made "for white people."

From me, not People Magazine: If this isn't racist, I don't know what is.

Would that quote come from the 1970's?

Birmingham. 1976 I believe.
In later years he continued to express his admiration for people like Enoch Powell. Last time in 2004 in Uncut Magazine.
He is as racist as you can be.
Racist, opposing the ban on fox hunting, anti lockdown = spitting the NHS in the face… and on top of that: playing generic blues riffs and be a cover-artist; still people think he’s a great artist.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: TumblinDice76 ()
Date: May 21, 2021 18:38

Strong words for a guy who made a living off of the Blues.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: May 21, 2021 18:48

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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-21 18:52 by NashvilleBlues.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:05

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NashvilleBlues
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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.

The judging aside, its the hatred & lifetime penalty that seems to go with it.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: windmelody ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:18

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NashvilleBlues
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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.

Of course you have any freedom of speech, Sir, with all respect I just tried to point out that people make mistakes, and it is not necessarily helpful to warm up old stories for decades.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:25

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windmelody
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NashvilleBlues
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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.

Of course you have any freedom of speech, Sir, with all respect I just tried to point out that people make mistakes, and it is not necessarily helpful to warm up old stories for decades.

Fair enough. Thanks for your reasonable response.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:28

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LeonidP
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NashvilleBlues
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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.

The judging aside, its the hatred & lifetime penalty that seems to go with it.

I agree with that. Hard to really say he's been hit with too big a penalty, seeing how he's thrived since the tirade, though. I don't hate him. I love his music (Cream way more than solo), but he isn't free from criticism, especially with what he said.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:48

Hates Jamaicans yet had his biggest song covering/stealing from a Jamaican.

Typical hypocrite. "I am not a racist" is usually how you can find them.

Crap guitarist too, despite some early promise.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: May 21, 2021 19:57

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NashvilleBlues
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LeonidP
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NashvilleBlues
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windmelody
Clapton is great, he has the right of freedom of speech like anyone else - he said some stupid things half a century ago and apologized; trying to put shame upon him with digging out old stories is neither polite nor smart.

If one cannot be judged by one's actions and words, what should I make my assessments based upon? Can't address the past? I'm not a fortune teller, so the past is all I can go by.

I have freedom of speech, too. Seems you are a bit hypocritical trying to shame me for my free speech about a racist tirade. Not polite or smart.

The judging aside, its the hatred & lifetime penalty that seems to go with it.

I agree with that. Hard to really say he's been hit with too big a penalty, seeing how he's thrived since the tirade, though. I don't hate him. I love his music (Cream way more than solo), but he isn't free from criticism, especially with what he said.

thumbs up ... by "penalty", i meant those that take that statement from 50+ years ago and ignore that he's since retracted it and will hold it against him forever.

Of course there are many that support him, most never knew of those statements, like me!

BTW, I'm not even a Clapton fan, for the record, but I admire that he is not afraid to make a statement about anti-isolation, going to concerts, questioning the "propaganda" around the vaccines (and yes, i am vaccinated - and I also had covid). He doesn't agree, big deal - many others don't too, and there's so much info out there, its not that easy to tell what to believe or not, despite that many here seem to think they have it all figured out.

So to say something against the grain is very risky, again, the hate against someone that does that (just look at some of the reactions in this thread alone) is appalling to me.

Remember, as ignorant as the opposing party seems to you, you appear just as ignorant to the opposing party.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: May 21, 2021 20:09

>Remember, as ignorant as the opposing party seems to you, you appear just as ignorant to the opposing party.

There is right and there is wrong. It is up to the individual to decide which is which, and then accept the consequences of that decision. Seems to me in this case there is not much argument amongst sane people which is which.

But there's that "sane" word again.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: May 21, 2021 20:25

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jbwelda
>Remember, as ignorant as the opposing party seems to you, you appear just as ignorant to the opposing party.

There is right and there is wrong. It is up to the individual to decide which is which, and then accept the consequences of that decision. Seems to me in this case there is not much argument amongst sane people which is which.

But there's that "sane" word again.

jb

Cool... missed and reinforced the point in the same comment!

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: May 21, 2021 20:33

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jbwelda
Hates Jamaicans yet had his biggest song covering/stealing from a Jamaican.

Typical hypocrite. "I am not a racist" is usually how you can find them.

Crap guitarist too, despite some early promise.

jb

Don't know whether it was Bob or Eric that gained the most from his cover, but shocking and sad that he had such a meltdown at a public event. Played some great guitar over the years.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Bjorn ()
Date: May 21, 2021 20:48


Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: May 21, 2021 21:15

I always say: musicians as well as sportsmen (and sportswomen, of course), actors etc. should not make political statements. Instead they should concentrate on their jobs.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: May 21, 2021 21:30

Clapton's OK.

Overrated overall, IMO.

racist rants are lame. He was a total drunken mess at the time, if that's worth anything.

he probably mellowed out when he got hooked on smack.

now he's off smack, so who knows?

eff it. I haven't given him a dime in decades and his music gets pretty low playtime on the turntable... nor do I plan to move him up any spots in the rotation.

If people wanna hate him, that's their right. His kid fell out of a window and died. He's paid his price for his sins, as far as I know or am concerned.

Not sure what else people want from this, though...

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Date: May 21, 2021 22:00

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slewan
I always say: musicians as well as sportsmen (and sportswomen, of course), actors etc. should not make political statements. Instead they should concentrate on their jobs.

All people should make political statements, including musicians and athletes. They also have 'jobs', as humans.

We should avoid it on IORR, though.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: May 21, 2021 22:34

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DandelionPowderman
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slewan
I always say: musicians as well as sportsmen (and sportswomen, of course), actors etc. should not make political statements. Instead they should concentrate on their jobs.

All people should make political statements, including musicians and athletes. They also have 'jobs', as humans.

We should avoid it on IORR, though.

well said.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: May 21, 2021 23:50

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treaclefingers
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DandelionPowderman
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slewan
I always say: musicians as well as sportsmen (and sportswomen, of course), actors etc. should not make political statements. Instead they should concentrate on their jobs.

All people should make political statements, including musicians and athletes. They also have 'jobs', as humans.

We should avoid it on IORR, though.

well said.

agree 100%....but, probably not drunken, public statements.

...and blatantly racist ones should be called out, for what it's worth.

Clapton would be finished if this happened today. All the videos & publicity today? Stick a fork in the guy. Done.

I'm not here to say if that's fair or not, but public drunken rants rarely work out well for the ranter.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 22, 2021 00:15

I've been listening to lots of Clapton the last week or so - the Yardbirds, Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos...
And his various guest spots with Delaney and Bonnie, John Lennon/Dirty Mac, Bangla Desh concert, Beatles, and yes even Van Morrison.
Also lots of his solo material, and a few tunes here and there from his albums with BB King, and JJ Cale...

While he's said some idiotic and nasty things in the past, can't imagine letting that get in the way of enjoying the massive treasure trove of music he's contributed to the world for so many years.
Some of my favorite concerts I've attended involved Eric one way or another - the ARMS Benefit (w/Beck and Page, etc.), with Steve Winwood, and quite a few times solo...he's always been great, and always will be!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-22 00:16 by Hairball.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: May 22, 2021 00:47

Leonid, I ignored the point.

I do have to walk back something, not a crap guitarist. Have to give respect where due, he complimented JJ Cale very much with his later style.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: May 22, 2021 01:17

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TumblinDice76
Strong words for a guy who made a living off of the Blues.

He also named his rehab charity the Crossroads Centre. Ironic.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: May 22, 2021 03:22

Here we go again...the now all too familiar ”Clapton is racist” rant that’s been going on for 45 years since he delivered that infamous hate speech on stage in Birmingham.

I can believe he did make a racist, anti-immigrant comment supporting Enoch Powell that night for sure, which is undeniable as numerous firsthand accounts testify to that. Eric himself admits that it happened.

However, as for that notorious, alleged “quote” from the evening, which has been widespread through the internet and seemingly accepted as the de facto statement by the general public, I am not convinced of its accuracy 100%. Bellow are some of my own comments on ‘OT- Van Morrison launches a campaign to “save live music”’thread:

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RisingStone
I am an avid fan of Clapton — have seen him more than 100 times for over forty-five years. That does not mean I accept everything he does or says. The infamous racial rant and support for Enoch Powell being one example, obviously.

However, in regard to his derogatory remarks above, which have been quoted a number of times and widespread through the internet, I have been intrigued by one persistent question that has to be answered — whose credit is the transcription of this for?

It would be safe to assume that, to write down a statement of this length as exactly spoken on stage as possible, the transcriber surely needs the audio-recorded document made by either a member of the touring team or someone among the audience. *Strangely enough, I’ve never come across the existence of a live tape or a vinyl/CD bootleg from that night (Odeon Theatre, Birmingham, August 5, 1976). Under such circumstances, I can’t help but wonder who did the transcribing job and how.

There is no doubt that Clapton made a racial remark and announced a support for Enoch Powell there and then — even he admits that albeit in an ambiguous manner (e.g. “I was a semi-racist.”). However, to deal with such a sensitive matter as this case, evidence of recorded form is essential for an exact copy of what was articulated on the site. If in case the transcriber did the job without the recorded document, in what way did he or she manage to do it?

I have searched and googled the matter for a number of years, but so far failed to find the origin of the primary source, who typed out the notorious quote in the first place and where the responsibility for the wording of this statement lies. I know the music paper Sounds gave it a sizable coverage back then although I haven’t obtained the original copy.

If anybody has information as regards above, I would be grateful for the enlightenment.

As for his support for the anti-lockdown...well, I said in the beginning, I don’t accept everything he does or says.

*Marc Roberty’s Book, Eric Clapton Day By Day: The Early Years, 1963-1982, publishes the setlist of the day, which may imply the existence of a live tape circulated in the closed circle.

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RisingStone
“I was a semi-racist” is a quote from A Life In 12 Bars. The film mentions the Birmingham incident, but doesn’t capture the moment directly.

I don’t deny Clapton made a racist remark. He did for sure.
I’m not talking about what he did. I’m questioning how he did.

He may have made that disgusting statement, every word as intact as quoted and spread through the internet. If the recording of the show including that portion becomes available to a wider public, the truth will be brought to light without any doubt. Even a most ardent fan would have to accept it no matter how hard it is then — what else can one do?

All I want is fairness. To judge a person, do it fairly.
Remember, “12 Angry Men”?

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RisingStone
I personally feel I can’t rule out the possibility the reporter of Clapton’s infamous “quote” did the job by writing down what the punters told him or her, rather than the candid verbatim account, a word for word transcription of what Clapton articulated on stage, based on the audio-recorded source. The obscurity of where it was published in the first place and who typed it out also makes me have some reservations about its validity.

Don’t get me wrong, I am certain Clapton made a racist remark along with the support for Enoch Powell that night, which is inexcusable. I’m afraid, though, I wonder if his statement might have been warped in some way or other by an inadequate way of putting it in words, especially when you consider the significance of the results his speech brought about in the music world and beyond, the impact it caused. A live tape — I’m sure someone taped the gig — would be the indisputable evidence.

Okay Clapton doesn’t publicly deny the quote himself, either — but most likely he doesn’t remember what he said in a drunken state, which was of common occurrence in the mid-70’s.

Anyone who read Eric’s quote from that night in its entirety — it’s easy to obtain it if you use Google— must notice that there is no shortage of sensationalism in his words, which is something the British tabloids are so fond of and good at making up on every given chance of exploitation.

The unavailability of the taped evidence in wider public makes me suspicious of the quote’s credibility and precision. Okay, he may have articulated it as quoted word-for-word. That’s possible. But for me, until the definitive evidence turns up, I won’t bring myself to trust the quote without reservation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-23 17:09 by RisingStone.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: spikenyc ()
Date: May 22, 2021 08:47

Of Course Eric Clapton Thinks Vaccine Information Is “Propaganda”

[www.insidehook.com]

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 22, 2021 09:53

Oh please make Eric shut off

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: May 22, 2021 10:19

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
slewan
I always say: musicians as well as sportsmen (and sportswomen, of course), actors etc. should not make political statements. Instead they should concentrate on their jobs.

All people should make political statements, including musicians and athletes. They also have 'jobs', as humans.

We should avoid it on IORR, though.

what I meant is that they shouldn't use their popularity for making political statements

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: May 22, 2021 15:25

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Stoned80
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Rip This
Dude...the man is a racist and now a covid denier...how is society trash when we have this clown spewing his hate...maybe you are part of that trash?....go take a 5 min time out dude.

How is he a covid denier when he willfully got the vaccine? And stop with the racial accusations, you sound silly. That word is so overused nowadays it has no real meaning anymore

And yes, society is trash when so many people in it pass judgement on others for their personal opinions. I personally got the vaccine but I’d never judge someone else who doesn’t want to. It’s a personal choice, and anyone who would admonish someone else for not taking an experimental vaccine is indeed pure trash.
personal choices based on what exactly'? the science? Experimental vaccine?...just shows your bias. Trash indeed.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: May 22, 2021 16:23

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spikenyc
Of Course Eric Clapton Thinks Vaccine Information Is “Propaganda”

[www.insidehook.com]

Finding some 'defence' for his view on this, I suspect that if it had been made clearer from the outset with him that people have varying reactions to the vaccine, and that could have a more severe reaction...well maybe he may have taken it in better stride?

I dunno, maybe not. I know a few people that had a more severe reaction than my own (sore arm) and they are still waiting enthusiastically to get their second dose and get it over with. I think the thought is, "if this is my reaction to the vaccine, can you imagine what my reaction to the actual virus would have been?".

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: May 22, 2021 17:21

right on Treacle. There are always some exceptions but really...what are the alternatives?...the world wide effects of the vaccine are undisputable, and...no one..no one should suffer the full effects of this virus at this point with the preventative measures in place.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: May 22, 2021 19:17

Quote
Hairball
I've been listening to lots of Clapton the last week or so - the Yardbirds, Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos...
And his various guest spots with Delaney and Bonnie, John Lennon/Dirty Mac, Bangla Desh concert, Beatles, and yes even Van Morrison.
Also lots of his solo material, and a few tunes here and there from his albums with BB King, and JJ Cale...

While he's said some idiotic and nasty things in the past, can't imagine letting that get in the way of enjoying the massive treasure trove of music he's contributed to the world for so many years.
Some of my favorite concerts I've attended involved Eric one way or another - the ARMS Benefit (w/Beck and Page, etc.), with Steve Winwood, and quite a few times solo...he's always been great, and always will be!

You know, @#$%& was a pretty good artist too.

At some point you just have to put your foot down and not accept the garbage out of some "artists" mouth, and call it for what it is.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 22, 2021 20:09

I thought that by saying "he's said some idiotic and nasty things in the past" would make it clear I didn't accept some of the things he's said in the past.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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