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Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: June 2, 2021 15:47

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
RisingStone
Since I posted my last comment here (on May 22), I have been searching for further information about the quote from the Birmingham incident and found this, recently published article [www.snopes.com] . It contains the paragraph below;

Quote
Did Eric Clapton Once Unleash a Racist Rant Onstage? by Dan MacGuill
Over the years, several purported transcripts have emerged, with various differences and points of commonality. It appears no recording of Clapton’s racist rant exists, so its exact wording is open to dispute, and we can’t verify the verbatim accuracy of any given set of direct quotations.

The article also quotes recollections of the audience members who were there to get the speech firsthand. Two of them (novelist and professor Caryl Phillips, who is a Caribbean immigrant, and future suka/New Wave bands The Beat/General Public singer Dave Wakeling) agree in that — unlike the often quoted and publicized tirade that is now widely shared by the internet community — “Clapton’s racist rant was protracted and intermittent over the course of the evening, and did not merely come in a single outburst.”

Wakeling — “I don’t remember it all happening in one go. There were two or three episodes of it and he had a bit of a recap towards the end.”

Some food for thought there...

I cant understand why this is still being an issue. Just like Bowie's "sieg heil" in 1976. When you¨re out of your mind due to alcohol and drugs, you¨re living in a dream/nightmare. Eric Clapton is the least racist (not correct Engligh words, I know) person ever. Whatever he said out of ohis mind in the 70s.......you are idiots to make a "case" out of that
Going back to the mid 70's when this tirade happened which was in his video/anthology/history is certainly a stain on his reputation is not a career defining moment, nor is it anything that is flattering in the least , but he was drunk and probably stoned on who knows what and that is no excuse but this was the wild 70's and the world was not "woke" as it is now .

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Date: June 2, 2021 16:12

I don't know where Clapton stands today on the subject, to be honest. As late as in 2004 he refused to apologise. It would have been easy to apologise appropriately, imo:

In a 2004 interview with the Times of London, Clapton claimed «there’s no way I could be a racist,” but in the same breath once again defended Powell as “outrageously brave»

Remarkably, Clapton even volunteered, in that 2004 interview, that he had steadfastly refused to apologize for his racist rant when given the opportunity in 1988.


[www.snopes.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-02 16:12 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: BowieStone ()
Date: June 2, 2021 18:10

Quote
TheGreek
[Going back to the mid 70's when this tirade happened which was in his video/anthology/history is certainly a stain on his reputation is not a career defining moment, nor is it anything that is flattering in the least , but he was drunk and probably stoned on who knows what and that is no excuse but this was the wild 70's and the world was not "woke" as it is now .

A band we both adore loved alcohol and drugs as well in the 70s.
I never heard a racist rant from them. What a lame excuse. It’s just the politics Clapton believes in.

People are searching for excuses, while even Clapton himself never apologised.
I even read he can’t be racist because he took everything from black people… err… well that is what racists do. He made a whiter than white version of the blues to please the white man. He’s the Pat Boone of the blues.

I’m sorry… I really hate that dude.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: June 2, 2021 18:34

In that documentary (RAR) David Bowie and Sir Rod Stewart were singled out as well. I really don't blame Bowie that much since he was probably "in character",
if you know what I mean? Sir Roderick seems to have escaped the radar here though.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: June 2, 2021 18:50

>In a 2004 interview...Clapton claimed «there’s no way I could be a racist,” but


Yeah, "no way"...but...

Like I mentioned, one of the sure ways to ID a racist.

Culture vulture is what you are.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: June 2, 2021 21:28

Quote
BowieStone
Quote
TheGreek
[Going back to the mid 70's when this tirade happened which was in his video/anthology/history is certainly a stain on his reputation is not a career defining moment, nor is it anything that is flattering in the least , but he was drunk and probably stoned on who knows what and that is no excuse but this was the wild 70's and the world was not "woke" as it is now .

A band we both adore loved alcohol and drugs as well in the 70s.
I never heard a racist rant from them. What a lame excuse. It’s just the politics Clapton believes in.

People are searching for excuses, while even Clapton himself never apologised.
I even read he can’t be racist because he took everything from black people… err… well that is what racists do. He made a whiter than white version of the blues to please the white man. He’s the Pat Boone of the blues.

I’m sorry… I really hate that dude.
So true and I don't mean to come across as an apologist for EC . Politics are very personal and I don't know the man at all . At the time when I seen the video of his on stage tirade I was caught off guard to say the least and did not expect it . What was the context of this being ignited if I may ask ?

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: June 2, 2021 21:42

Certainly not as extreme as Clapton but still awkward:

"Keith Richards: I'm as black as the ace of spades"

Rolling Stones’ Keith Richards says he is “as black as the ace of spades” in response to the debate around cultural appropriation in blues music.

[www.loudersound.com]

[www.rollingstone.com]

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: June 3, 2021 00:25

KR has a lot stronger case than most to make claims like that, with tongue firmly in cheek the way I always read it. But living in Jamaica and being on the streets of NYC looking for smack, yeah, I can dig it baby.

And he is not telling anyone to get out, he is just stating his view of his inner (obviously) self.

Not a problem for me.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: June 3, 2021 01:02

Quote
jbwelda
KR has a lot stronger case than most to make claims like that, with tongue firmly in cheek the way I always read it. But living in Jamaica and being on the streets of NYC looking for smack, yeah, I can dig it baby.

And he is not telling anyone to get out, he is just stating his view of his inner (obviously) self.

Not a problem for me. jb

Oh, I totally agree. Keith is the epitome of "soul". I'm just saying that his comments could be taken out of context, especially in the current climate. But I feel the same way whenever I pick up a resonator and do my best Howlin' Wolf impression.

"But 72-year-old Richards insists “work songs” and slavery have been around since the beginning of time – and that the genre should not be defined by race."

“I didn’t know what colour these people were, as a kid. I don’t think of blues as being of any particular colour at all.

“Obviously, its history. But there were white slaves, as well. There have been plenty of work songs from way back. Try Egypt. Quite Jewish, actually. People have been doing this since history began.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 01:03 by bleedingman.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: June 3, 2021 01:46

Quote
jbwelda
KR has a lot stronger case than most to make claims like that, with tongue firmly in cheek the way I always read it. But living in Jamaica and being on the streets of NYC looking for smack, yeah, I can dig it baby.

If his lifestyle as such entitles Keith to make claims like that for you, wouldn’t it be an implication of your inner view that black people are dubious tribes, a negative stereotype you criticized in the response to Rocktiludrop upthread?

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: June 3, 2021 04:00

Are you a psychologist? Or just looking for an ad hominem distraction?

Naw, I meant he was obviously in the Hamptons looking for smack. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"Dubious tribes"? Are you serious? That's a new one on me. I fail to understand the question as stated.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: June 3, 2021 05:48

Quote
jbwelda
Are you a psychologist? Or just looking for an ad hominem distraction?

Naw, I meant he was obviously in the Hamptons looking for smack. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"Dubious tribes"? Are you serious? That's a new one on me. I fail to understand the question as stated.

jb

“Dubious tribes”...I am a non-native speaking member of English on this board, and often struggle to write in language that is not mine, always searching for appropriate phrases, idioms and words, sometimes to no avail. If these two words, “dubious tribes” have gone amiss in view of proper English usage, I am sorry.

That being said...

In the response to Rocktiludrop, you recollect you and your friends’ unpleasant experience in Richmond, which is a “white, middle-class neighbourhood” according to Big Al’s post. I assume you are claiming here that there are white “thugs (again, Big Al’s word)” in an area where the majority of the residents are white, refuting Rocktiludrop’s idea that “there are no go areas for whites” with the possible implication that dodgy, seedy areas are non-white in most cases. Then, it sounds to me, your description in the original post, “being on the streets of NYC looking for smack”, which appears to be intended as related to the black culture thing in your context, offers an equally stereotypical image as Rocktiudrops’ as regards non-white areas.

Took over an hour to write this...hope my English is accurate this time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 06:09 by RisingStone.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: June 3, 2021 07:40

At the last Crossroads benefit concert that B.B.King appeared at he said (paraphrasing) “I have been all round the world met kings and queens and none of them were as great a gentleman as Eric Clapton”.
Good enough for me

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: June 3, 2021 09:14

Quote
jbwelda
But living in Jamaica and being on the streets of NYC looking for smack, yeah, I can dig it baby.

I don't know. That sounded pretty racist to me.

And your excuse is that you confused the "streets of NYC" with the Hamptons??


Maybe you need to look deep within your own heart, and stop accusing others of being racist.

But you're not a racist?

Right?

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: June 3, 2021 11:13

Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I've got a shock for everyone, Eric obviously meant what he said at the time drunk or not, and in retrospect he was right, when you look at some English Cities today there are places you feel completely out of place and a minority if you are white British.
I don't think the indigenous people of England were ever asked if they wanted to become a minority, i go to London now and to be honest it's a challenge to find anyone talking English, even if they are white they are invariably Eastern European or whatever.

For me when the host nation become a minority it's gone too far, i think my fellow Englishmen are the most tolerant people in the world but I'd be lying if i said there isn't concern, multiculturalism doesn't seem to be working, in the last few years I've witnessed a lot of racial tensions from both sides, it's very sad and i fear it doesn't end well for the English as a culture and I'm sure most the world will be very happy about that including many English themselves.

thumbs down

I hope you are joking.

for one, England is 80% white....so stop w/ the total inaccuracy about "white minorities" in England.

As for the woes of the Indigenous English, boo-hoo....I'm pretty sure the indigenous people of all of England's colonies were never asked if they wanted to be exploited for England's gain....

so, too bad for the UK if they show up now looking for a piece of the pie the Brits stole from them for ___ years.

If your Fellow White Brits are concerned, they can simply have more kids...population growth is necessary for economic solvency as populations age & retire...if that ain't comin' from locals, it comes from immigrants. It's basic math.

But, if you wanna start kicking some immigrants out....feel free to send all the immigrant doctors, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, nurses, dentists etc. to my country....(FYI, that's how Einstein and all the Manhattan Project scientists ended up in my country....Dummy Shitler being a xenophobic, antisemitic moron)

or do you want to keep the highly-skilled professionals and only throw out the "low value" immigrants?.....

I ask b/c a side of socioeconomic prejudice goes well with a plate of xenophobia covered in racism-sauce.

Whatever...if Clapton meant what he said, I know who I'd vote off the island....


Either you are fresh out of university of you are not too good at understanding basic facts, and i didn't say anything about kicking people out, ( I'm certainly not a racist , many of my heroes are black and government immigration policy is not their fault) i said when some London boroughs are 0 to 5% white things have gone too far, and if your guess that England is 80% white ( that figure will have changed when the new census comes out,) is it not a concern that 20% non whites are committing almost half of knife crime, that worries me, that tells me that these people feel like they have nothing to lose in this country, it tells me they are not happy. Multiculturalism has failed, this country has failed them, it has used them and neglected them, can't you understand what I was saying, Clapton was right in that respect, mass immigration policy under previous governments was a mistake, and by the way, his drunken speech has been altered recently, that's the internet for you, that's the punishment he is receiving for having the guts to speak out against our basic freedoms being taken from us recently.
And you say population growth is a good thing for economy, well is it a good thing for people to be over populated, , you mean it's a good thing for capitalists.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: June 3, 2021 11:48

Anyone's personal opinion about immigration is, I think, of no interest in this thread. Better to stay with the subject. Which is Eric Clapton in this case.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: June 3, 2021 11:56

In regard to multiculturalism: it is, in part, a failed ideal. Encouraged integration is surely better. In time, a blended culture - we have that in many areas, now - is far better. It isn’t healthy to have many cultures living in what can only effectively be described as solitudes. Living amongst each-other, yet very much apart. It isn’t modern and isn’t forward-thinking.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: June 3, 2021 13:46

Quote
RisingStone
Quote
jbwelda
Are you a psychologist? Or just looking for an ad hominem distraction?

Naw, I meant he was obviously in the Hamptons looking for smack. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"Dubious tribes"? Are you serious? That's a new one on me. I fail to understand the question as stated.

jb

“Dubious tribes”...I am a non-native speaking member of English on this board, and often struggle to write in language that is not mine, always searching for appropriate phrases, idioms and words, sometimes to no avail. If these two words, “dubious tribes” have gone amiss in view of proper English usage, I am sorry.

That being said...

In the response to Rocktiludrop, you recollect you and your friends’ unpleasant experience in Richmond, which is a “white, middle-class neighbourhood” according to Big Al’s post. I assume you are claiming here that there are white “thugs (again, Big Al’s word)” in an area where the majority of the residents are white, refuting Rocktiludrop’s idea that “there are no go areas for whites” with the possible implication that dodgy, seedy areas are non-white in most cases. Then, it sounds to me, your description in the original post, “being on the streets of NYC looking for smack”, which appears to be intended as related to the black culture thing in your context, offers an equally stereotypical image as Rocktiudrops’ as regards non-white areas.

Took over an hour to write this...hope my English is accurate this time.
Your English is fine and I can understand you very easily . Your communication skills are also fine as well .

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: June 3, 2021 15:29

Quote
TheGreek
Your English is fine and I can understand you very easily . Your communication skills are also fine as well .

Hi, many thanks for your kind words. My wife, who is a native speaker of English, teases me for my dodgy grammar and pronunciation in our everyday conversation, which winds me up LOL.

Quote
Stoneage
Anyone's personal opinion about immigration is, I think, of no interest in this thread. Better to stay with the subject. Which is Eric Clapton in this case.

Agreed. Clapton’s reasoning behind his opposition against immigration for cheap labour sounds to me like a vain attempt and weak excuse to cover up his inner racism that was exposed to the public on one of many careless moments of his drunken state onstage that was so common back in the 70’s.

Saying that, let me repeat my primary questions surrounding Eric Clapton’s Birmingham debacle — who typed out that dubious quote, how did the reporter achieve that, was that done with or without recording source, where was it published first? Does anybody make them clear, submit more concrete evidence as regards these points?

When you judge somebody, do it fairly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 15:50 by RisingStone.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: June 3, 2021 19:11

Quote
RisingStone
Quote
jbwelda
Are you a psychologist? Or just looking for an ad hominem distraction?

Naw, I meant he was obviously in the Hamptons looking for smack. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"Dubious tribes"? Are you serious? That's a new one on me. I fail to understand the question as stated.

jb

“Dubious tribes”...I am a non-native speaking member of English on this board, and often struggle to write in language that is not mine, always searching for appropriate phrases, idioms and words, sometimes to no avail. If these two words, “dubious tribes” have gone amiss in view of proper English usage, I am sorry.

That being said...

In the response to Rocktiludrop, you recollect you and your friends’ unpleasant experience in Richmond, which is a “white, middle-class neighbourhood” according to Big Al’s post. I assume you are claiming here that there are white “thugs (again, Big Al’s word)” in an area where the majority of the residents are white, refuting Rocktiludrop’s idea that “there are no go areas for whites” with the possible implication that dodgy, seedy areas are non-white in most cases. Then, it sounds to me, your description in the original post, “being on the streets of NYC looking for smack”, which appears to be intended as related to the black culture thing in your context, offers an equally stereotypical image as Rocktiudrops’ as regards non-white areas.

Took over an hour to write this...hope my English is accurate this time.


Did not mean to insult you, didn't know English was not your first language, you speak or write it pretty well.

As for the rest of it, I am not perfect, and probably have some racist tendencies, I try to suppress them and see people for what or whom they are. Saying someone is "black" is not racist in my mind, acting differently toward them because they are whatever heritage is racist. I try to be the former, not the latter. And I stand by my assertion: being drunk or high doesn't make you think bad things, but it sure does make you speak out and say the things you are thinking. That was Clapton's problem: he let his inner thoughts out and then if he apologized he did so because he said the things, not because he thought the things. No one is free from the taint of racism, it is ingrained in us nearly from birth, the "them and us" paradigm. Its what you do with or about that taint that matters most. In his case he chose to get up on stage and let everyone know how he felt, and then felt the repercussions, and did nothing but double down when called on it. Kind of way ahead of his time as it turns out.

jb

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: June 3, 2021 19:15

Quote
loog droog
Quote
jbwelda
But living in Jamaica and being on the streets of NYC looking for smack, yeah, I can dig it baby.

I don't know. That sounded pretty racist to me.

And your excuse is that you confused the "streets of NYC" with the Hamptons??


Maybe you need to look deep within your own heart, and stop accusing others of being racist.

But you're not a racist?

Right?

Right. I am a total racist. I hate white people including myself. Happy now? Remember that bias as a basis for any further conversation.

Even hard core racists can recognize racism in others. Having the condition does not blind one to the condition in others. This thread was not about me but about a famous person running his mouth when he should know better. I or my thoughts on various matters do not matter one whit. In life it is important to realize that from the get-go.

BTW the bit about the Hamptons was a joke, all I know about the Hamptons I learned from an episode of Seinfeld.

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 19:30 by jbwelda.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: June 3, 2021 22:12

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I've got a shock for everyone, Eric obviously meant what he said at the time drunk or not, and in retrospect he was right, when you look at some English Cities today there are places you feel completely out of place and a minority if you are white British.
I don't think the indigenous people of England were ever asked if they wanted to become a minority, i go to London now and to be honest it's a challenge to find anyone talking English, even if they are white they are invariably Eastern European or whatever.

For me when the host nation become a minority it's gone too far, i think my fellow Englishmen are the most tolerant people in the world but I'd be lying if i said there isn't concern, multiculturalism doesn't seem to be working, in the last few years I've witnessed a lot of racial tensions from both sides, it's very sad and i fear it doesn't end well for the English as a culture and I'm sure most the world will be very happy about that including many English themselves.

thumbs down

I hope you are joking.

for one, England is 80% white....so stop w/ the total inaccuracy about "white minorities" in England.

As for the woes of the Indigenous English, boo-hoo....I'm pretty sure the indigenous people of all of England's colonies were never asked if they wanted to be exploited for England's gain....

so, too bad for the UK if they show up now looking for a piece of the pie the Brits stole from them for ___ years.

If your Fellow White Brits are concerned, they can simply have more kids...population growth is necessary for economic solvency as populations age & retire...if that ain't comin' from locals, it comes from immigrants. It's basic math.

But, if you wanna start kicking some immigrants out....feel free to send all the immigrant doctors, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, nurses, dentists etc. to my country....(FYI, that's how Einstein and all the Manhattan Project scientists ended up in my country....Dummy Shitler being a xenophobic, antisemitic moron)

or do you want to keep the highly-skilled professionals and only throw out the "low value" immigrants?.....

I ask b/c a side of socioeconomic prejudice goes well with a plate of xenophobia covered in racism-sauce.

Whatever...if Clapton meant what he said, I know who I'd vote off the island....


Either you are fresh out of university of you are not too good at understanding basic facts, and i didn't say anything about kicking people out, ( I'm certainly not a racist , many of my heroes are black and government immigration policy is not their fault) i said when some London boroughs are 0 to 5% white things have gone too far, and if your guess that England is 80% white ( that figure will have changed when the new census comes out,) is it not a concern that 20% non whites are committing almost half of knife crime, that worries me, that tells me that these people feel like they have nothing to lose in this country, it tells me they are not happy. Multiculturalism has failed, this country has failed them, it has used them and neglected them, can't you understand what I was saying, Clapton was right in that respect, mass immigration policy under previous governments was a mistake, and by the way, his drunken speech has been altered recently, that's the internet for you, that's the punishment he is receiving for having the guts to speak out against our basic freedoms being taken from us recently.
And you say population growth is a good thing for economy, well is it a good thing for people to be over populated, , you mean it's a good thing for capitalists.

Clapton is/was wrong and so are you.

I like immigrants. They work hard, pay taxes....good citizens, in other words.

"basic freedoms being taken away"....by immigrants?

oh dear lord.

Giving people equal rights doesn't mean LESS rights for you..it's not pie, dude.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: June 3, 2021 23:34

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 23:59 by Rocktiludrop.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: June 3, 2021 23:54

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I've got a shock for everyone, Eric obviously meant what he said at the time drunk or not, and in retrospect he was right, when you look at some English Cities today there are places you feel completely out of place and a minority if you are white British.
I don't think the indigenous people of England were ever asked if they wanted to become a minority, i go to London now and to be honest it's a challenge to find anyone talking English, even if they are white they are invariably Eastern European or whatever.

For me when the host nation become a minority it's gone too far, i think my fellow Englishmen are the most tolerant people in the world but I'd be lying if i said there isn't concern, multiculturalism doesn't seem to be working, in the last few years I've witnessed a lot of racial tensions from both sides, it's very sad and i fear it doesn't end well for the English as a culture and I'm sure most the world will be very happy about that including many English themselves.

thumbs down

I hope you are joking.

for one, England is 80% white....so stop w/ the total inaccuracy about "white minorities" in England.

As for the woes of the Indigenous English, boo-hoo....I'm pretty sure the indigenous people of all of England's colonies were never asked if they wanted to be exploited for England's gain....

so, too bad for the UK if they show up now looking for a piece of the pie the Brits stole from them for ___ years.

If your Fellow White Brits are concerned, they can simply have more kids...population growth is necessary for economic solvency as populations age & retire...if that ain't comin' from locals, it comes from immigrants. It's basic math.

But, if you wanna start kicking some immigrants out....feel free to send all the immigrant doctors, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, nurses, dentists etc. to my country....(FYI, that's how Einstein and all the Manhattan Project scientists ended up in my country....Dummy Shitler being a xenophobic, antisemitic moron)

or do you want to keep the highly-skilled professionals and only throw out the "low value" immigrants?.....

I ask b/c a side of socioeconomic prejudice goes well with a plate of xenophobia covered in racism-sauce.

Whatever...if Clapton meant what he said, I know who I'd vote off the island....


Either you are fresh out of university of you are not too good at understanding basic facts, and i didn't say anything about kicking people out, ( I'm certainly not a racist , many of my heroes are black and government immigration policy is not their fault) i said when some London boroughs are 0 to 5% white things have gone too far, and if your guess that England is 80% white ( that figure will have changed when the new census comes out,) is it not a concern that 20% non whites are committing almost half of knife crime, that worries me, that tells me that these people feel like they have nothing to lose in this country, it tells me they are not happy. Multiculturalism has failed, this country has failed them, it has used them and neglected them, can't you understand what I was saying, Clapton was right in that respect, mass immigration policy under previous governments was a mistake, and by the way, his drunken speech has been altered recently, that's the internet for you, that's the punishment he is receiving for having the guts to speak out against our basic freedoms being taken from us recently.
And you say population growth is a good thing for economy, well is it a good thing for people to be over populated, , you mean it's a good thing for capitalists.

Clapton is/was wrong and so are you.

I like immigrants. They work hard, pay taxes....good citizens, in other words.

"basic freedoms being taken away"....by immigrants?

oh dear lord.

Giving people equal rights doesn't mean LESS rights for you..it's not pie, dude.

There is something wrong with you, you keep assuming things that i haven't said, I'm sorry if you have limited intelligence, now try to to concentrate.
Basic freedoms being taken away by draconian measures over lockdown restrictions, over vaccinations, Travel passports etc, that's the messages Clapton was trying to get out to people with Van Morrison.

You mean you like imigrants to use as slaves for your economy ?, what a disgusting incentive to disrupt and cause a complete change in inner city communities. Places that were safe and caring neibourhoods that are now unsafe and unfit to live in, you love that do you.
You seem to think all imigrants are doctors and nurses. Judges and chief of police, you been watching too much TV and advertising mate. What a moron. Why do you think British people voted Brexit, do you think it was for love of immigration, you live in a fantasy world.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: June 4, 2021 04:03

Quote
jbwelda
Did not mean to insult you, didn't know English was not your first language, you speak or write it pretty well.

As for the rest of it, I am not perfect, and probably have some racist tendencies, I try to suppress them and see people for what or whom they are. Saying someone is "black" is not racist in my mind, acting differently toward them because they are whatever heritage is racist. I try to be the former, not the latter. And I stand by my assertion: being drunk or high doesn't make you think bad things, but it sure does make you speak out and say the things you are thinking. That was Clapton's problem: he let his inner thoughts out and then if he apologized he did so because he said the things, not because he thought the things. No one is free from the taint of racism, it is ingrained in us nearly from birth, the "them and us" paradigm. Its what you do with or about that taint that matters most. In his case he chose to get up on stage and let everyone know how he felt, and then felt the repercussions, and did nothing but double down when called on it. Kind of way ahead of his time as it turns out.

jb

Thank you for your honest, thoughtful reply. I appreciate that, and agree with you on most of the points.
I think there is Clapton in every one of us — Clapton not as “God” but as the Devil. No one can dismiss his faux pas as irrelevant IMHO.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: June 4, 2021 11:04

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jbwelda
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RisingStone
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jbwelda
Are you a psychologist? Or just looking for an ad hominem distraction?

Naw, I meant he was obviously in the Hamptons looking for smack. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"Dubious tribes"? Are you serious? That's a new one on me. I fail to understand the question as stated.

jb

“Dubious tribes”...I am a non-native speaking member of English on this board, and often struggle to write in language that is not mine, always searching for appropriate phrases, idioms and words, sometimes to no avail. If these two words, “dubious tribes” have gone amiss in view of proper English usage, I am sorry.

That being said...

In the response to Rocktiludrop, you recollect you and your friends’ unpleasant experience in Richmond, which is a “white, middle-class neighbourhood” according to Big Al’s post. I assume you are claiming here that there are white “thugs (again, Big Al’s word)” in an area where the majority of the residents are white, refuting Rocktiludrop’s idea that “there are no go areas for whites” with the possible implication that dodgy, seedy areas are non-white in most cases. Then, it sounds to me, your description in the original post, “being on the streets of NYC looking for smack”, which appears to be intended as related to the black culture thing in your context, offers an equally stereotypical image as Rocktiudrops’ as regards non-white areas.

Took over an hour to write this...hope my English is accurate this time.


Did not mean to insult you, didn't know English was not your first language, you speak or write it pretty well.

As for the rest of it, I am not perfect, and probably have some racist tendencies, I try to suppress them and see people for what or whom they are. Saying someone is "black" is not racist in my mind, acting differently toward them because they are whatever heritage is racist. I try to be the former, not the latter. And I stand by my assertion: being drunk or high doesn't make you think bad things, but it sure does make you speak out and say the things you are thinking. That was Clapton's problem: he let his inner thoughts out and then if he apologized he did so because he said the things, not because he thought the things. No one is free from the taint of racism, it is ingrained in us nearly from birth, the "them and us" paradigm. Its what you do with or about that taint that matters most. In his case he chose to get up on stage and let everyone know how he felt, and then felt the repercussions, and did nothing but double down when called on it. Kind of way ahead of his time as it turns out.

jb

Excellent post, jb.

I don’t believe I have genuine racist tendencies, but I did call the estranged wife the ‘n-word’ during rows, I’ll admit. Then again: she’d be screaming that she should’ve married a ‘black man’ She was a difficult one, quite honestly. Always going for white guys, yet she had ‘racial-issues’ with every one, apparently.

My current partner is black, too. She’s probably one of least racial people I’ve met. Our colour-difference is never raised by us; only occasionally by others.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: June 4, 2021 11:10

Pretty heavy this "Eric Clapton stuff" here, I'd say....

- Doxa

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: June 4, 2021 17:28

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Rocktiludrop
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Rocktiludrop
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stickyfingers101
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Rocktiludrop
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stickyfingers101
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Rocktiludrop
I've got a shock for everyone, Eric obviously meant what he said at the time drunk or not, and in retrospect he was right, when you look at some English Cities today there are places you feel completely out of place and a minority if you are white British.
I don't think the indigenous people of England were ever asked if they wanted to become a minority, i go to London now and to be honest it's a challenge to find anyone talking English, even if they are white they are invariably Eastern European or whatever.

For me when the host nation become a minority it's gone too far, i think my fellow Englishmen are the most tolerant people in the world but I'd be lying if i said there isn't concern, multiculturalism doesn't seem to be working, in the last few years I've witnessed a lot of racial tensions from both sides, it's very sad and i fear it doesn't end well for the English as a culture and I'm sure most the world will be very happy about that including many English themselves.

thumbs down

I hope you are joking.

for one, England is 80% white....so stop w/ the total inaccuracy about "white minorities" in England.

As for the woes of the Indigenous English, boo-hoo....I'm pretty sure the indigenous people of all of England's colonies were never asked if they wanted to be exploited for England's gain....

so, too bad for the UK if they show up now looking for a piece of the pie the Brits stole from them for ___ years.

If your Fellow White Brits are concerned, they can simply have more kids...population growth is necessary for economic solvency as populations age & retire...if that ain't comin' from locals, it comes from immigrants. It's basic math.

But, if you wanna start kicking some immigrants out....feel free to send all the immigrant doctors, engineers, mathematicians, scientists, nurses, dentists etc. to my country....(FYI, that's how Einstein and all the Manhattan Project scientists ended up in my country....Dummy Shitler being a xenophobic, antisemitic moron)

or do you want to keep the highly-skilled professionals and only throw out the "low value" immigrants?.....

I ask b/c a side of socioeconomic prejudice goes well with a plate of xenophobia covered in racism-sauce.

Whatever...if Clapton meant what he said, I know who I'd vote off the island....


Either you are fresh out of university of you are not too good at understanding basic facts, and i didn't say anything about kicking people out, ( I'm certainly not a racist , many of my heroes are black and government immigration policy is not their fault) i said when some London boroughs are 0 to 5% white things have gone too far, and if your guess that England is 80% white ( that figure will have changed when the new census comes out,) is it not a concern that 20% non whites are committing almost half of knife crime, that worries me, that tells me that these people feel like they have nothing to lose in this country, it tells me they are not happy. Multiculturalism has failed, this country has failed them, it has used them and neglected them, can't you understand what I was saying, Clapton was right in that respect, mass immigration policy under previous governments was a mistake, and by the way, his drunken speech has been altered recently, that's the internet for you, that's the punishment he is receiving for having the guts to speak out against our basic freedoms being taken from us recently.
And you say population growth is a good thing for economy, well is it a good thing for people to be over populated, , you mean it's a good thing for capitalists.

Clapton is/was wrong and so are you.

I like immigrants. They work hard, pay taxes....good citizens, in other words.

"basic freedoms being taken away"....by immigrants?

oh dear lord.

Giving people equal rights doesn't mean LESS rights for you..it's not pie, dude.

There is something wrong with you, you keep assuming things that i haven't said, I'm sorry if you have limited intelligence, now try to to concentrate.
Basic freedoms being taken away by draconian measures over lockdown restrictions, over vaccinations, Travel passports etc, that's the messages Clapton was trying to get out to people with Van Morrison.

You mean you like imigrants to use as slaves for your economy ?, what a disgusting incentive to disrupt and cause a complete change in inner city communities. Places that were safe and caring neibourhoods that are now unsafe and unfit to live in, you love that do you.
You seem to think all imigrants are doctors and nurses. Judges and chief of police, you been watching too much TV and advertising mate. What a moron. Why do you think British people voted Brexit, do you think it was for love of immigration, you live in a fantasy world.

I need to concentrate?

OK...so, according to you, I said:

a) I like/want slaves.

b) All immigrants are doctors and nurses

c) I like that "safe caring neighborhoods are now unsafe"

I wrote none of those things, dude.

I'll try again: I said I like immigrants. My experience has been that they come to my country to work hard, play by the rules and provide for their families and children....

In other words, immigrants are just like every other "group" I can name or think of....anywhere.

Not all immigrants are nice...sure....but, not all native-born in my country are nice either...

what's your point?

I may be a "moron" with "limited intelligence"....I've dealt w/ bullies like you my whole life, so fire-away w/ your Keyboard Warrior Insults...

regardless, it is you that is defending a racist, xenophobic rant by Clapton...you've actually turned it into your own rant/position....congratulations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-04 17:32 by stickyfingers101.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: June 4, 2021 17:43

In my opinion, things must be contextualized, like some terms used in the past and today not very pleasant.
I don't think Clapton is racist, or rather we are all racists, the difference is the culture of the people and I find it hard to believe that Clapton's always musically blues culture makes him a racist. He may have taken a tough stance on immigration, but that doesn't mean being racist.

Re: OT: Eric Clapton stuff
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: June 4, 2021 17:51

Quote
Testify
In my opinion, things must be contextualized, like some terms used in the past and today not very pleasant.
I don't think Clapton is racist, or rather we are all racists, the difference is the culture of the people and I find it hard to believe that Clapton's always musically blues culture makes him a racist. He may have taken a tough stance on immigration, but that doesn't mean being racist.

publicly calling people of color "w*gs" and "c**ns" isn't being racist?

A case can be made that Clapton isn't racist and that this is an outlier-moment...but only those who know the man can say for certain....I don't know the man, so I don't know...

but, what he said is (and was) racist....that's not debatable.

there's also the xenophobic element of his rant too...doesn't mean he IS a xenophobe...but, what he said certainly is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-04 17:53 by stickyfingers101.

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