When Yardbirds '68 is officially released on November 5, it will include an early instrumental version of the song that became Led Zeppelin's "Tangerine." It will be an instrumental version because Jimmy Page has erased Keith Relf's lead vocal so that he won't have to give Keith a songwriting credit (the lyrics are Relf's) and pay royalties to his estate. Here's the song with Keith's lyrics and vocal intact.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-30 17:08 by tatters.

Up to his old copyright tricks again. Shameful.

From Wikipedia:

Although writers do not question who composed the music for the song,there is some disagreement over who wrote the lyrics. In addition to being credited as the songwriter on all Led Zeppelin releases, Page claims to be responsible for the lyrics: "I'd written it after an old emotional upheaval and I just changed a few of the lyrics for the new version". Author and music documentarian Bob Carruthers writing in Led Zeppelin: Uncensored on the Record, claims it was a sole composition by Jimmy Page.

However, Case, Shadwick, and Williamson identify the Yardbirds' song as a joint or co-compostion by Page and Yardbirds' singer and primary lyricist Keith Relf. Yardbirds' drummer Jim McCarty and bassist Chris Dreja both assert that Relf wrote the words for "Knowing That I'm Losing You"; they and Jane Relf (sister and singer who also performed with Relf) believe some of his original lines found their way into "Tangerine". Strawman comments on the verses (both songs have three verses, one is repeated as the chorus):

Unfortunately for the Yardbirds, they never copyrighted "Knowing That I'm Losing You", which allowed Robert Plant to lift the third verse ("Measuring a summer's day ...") into the first verse of "Tangerine".

Discographer Neil Priddey adds:

"Tangerine" was a direct lift of a previously recorded Yardbirds tune – "Knowing That I'm Losing You" – which had never been copyrighted, so Page simply "claimed" the track without acknowledging Keith Relf's partial lyric contribution.

In When Giants Walked the Earth, Wall describes the words as typical of Relf for the period: "they did smack of the classic flower-child-isms of Keith Relf".Case notes that "Tangerine" is "one of the two Zeppelin non-instrumentals that credit Page as the sole songwriter" (the credit for the second song, "Dazed and Confused", was later amended).

Completely disgraceful!

Our beloved Rolling Stones would never airbrush anyone out of their history, would they!

Hang on..... Anybody seen my copy of Rarities?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

5 years ago Jeff Lynne rerecorded all of the old ELO hits, saying it would be fun to do so with all he has learnt in his 30 years as a producer since then.

Nothing to do with the rest of the band no longer receiving royalties in the event of these songs being used for adverts then , as one recently was.

Guess which version he allowed to be used... ?

Despicable.

When did this practice first start?
Sharon Osbourne and the re-recording of 'Blizzard of Ozz' maybe?

Well done Jimmy. The song can only be sung by Bobby Plant and I'm pretty sure Relf is still dead so...

Wow! I love Tangerine, but had never heard that Yardbirds version before. LZ really didn't change much at all.

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tatters
When Yardbirds '68 is officially released on November 5, it will include an early instrumental version of the song that became Led Zeppelin's "Tangerine." It will be an instrumental version because Jimmy Page has erased Keith Relf's lead vocal so that he won't have to give Keith a songwriting credit (the lyrics are Relf's) and pay royalties to his estate. Here's the song with Keith's lyrics and vocal intact.

[www.youtube.com]

It's not that simple.
Firstly, that early version was never copyrighted.
Secondly, Page claimed the lyrics was his.
Thirdly, if Keith Relf, who died in 1976, had anything to argue against the released version of Tangarine, he could have either sued or claimed authorship of the lyrics. He didn't though he had 6 years to do so.

We have seen it in the Stones world too, with Jones 'defenders' who claimes he should have writing credit for this and that. Funnily enough, Jones himself never argued on that point. Only his 'fans' do.

further damage to the already shady reputation LZ has ...

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Blueranger

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tatters
When Yardbirds '68 is officially released on November 5, it will include an early instrumental version of the song that became Led Zeppelin's "Tangerine." It will be an instrumental version because Jimmy Page has erased Keith Relf's lead vocal so that he won't have to give Keith a songwriting credit (the lyrics are Relf's) and pay royalties to his estate. Here's the song with Keith's lyrics and vocal intact.

[www.youtube.com]

It's not that simple.
Firstly, that early version was never copyrighted.
Secondly, Page claimed the lyrics was his.
Thirdly, if Keith Relf, who died in 1976, had anything to argue against the released version of Tangarine, he could have either sued or claimed authorship of the lyrics. He didn't though he had 6 years to do so.

We have seen it in the Stones world too, with Jones 'defenders' who claimes he should have writing credit for this and that. Funnily enough, Jones himself never argued on that point. Only his 'fans' do.

Your first two points were addressed in the third post in this thread. As for point #3, I can only guess that Relf remained silent on the matter because he would have considered it ungentlemanly to do otherwise. Being ripped off by a total stranger is one thing, but if it's a fellow Yardbird, well, one might be inclined to look the other way.

As for point No. 3:
If somebody is defrauded, it's not cool to say it was his fault.
At that time, somebody like Reif probably didn't have the resources or the contacts to challenge this. And meaning no disrespect to the man, he doesn't strike me as a man who was real organized or good at managing his career. But that's not a reason to cheat him.

Gee what a nice fellow.

That Yardbirds version is a beauty!

Cheap shot by Page really... probably didn't want to go through another "Stairway" lawsuit circus with relatives of the deceased coming out of the woodwork long after the fact.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I doubt it was to avoid paying royalties to someone's estate.

One previously unreleased minor song isn't going to make or break JP's bank account.

I think it has more to do with the fact that JP already claimed previously that he wrote the song prior to joining LZ, not that that he had co-written it with someone from the Y-birds.

It's all about avoiding giving any outside credit to anything relating to LZ.

If LZ had never released a song called Tangerine, then without doubt this Y-birds song would have been released on the new collection with Relf on vocals and credited as co-writer.

This new collection sounds interesting, because it will be nice hearing all that later Y-birds material cleaned up production-wise, but as far as I'm concerned I already have the definitive "Yardbirds '68":

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tatters

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Blueranger

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tatters
When Yardbirds '68 is officially released on November 5, it will include an early instrumental version of the song that became Led Zeppelin's "Tangerine." It will be an instrumental version because Jimmy Page has erased Keith Relf's lead vocal so that he won't have to give Keith a songwriting credit (the lyrics are Relf's) and pay royalties to his estate. Here's the song with Keith's lyrics and vocal intact.

[www.youtube.com]

It's not that simple.
Firstly, that early version was never copyrighted.
Secondly, Page claimed the lyrics was his.
Thirdly, if Keith Relf, who died in 1976, had anything to argue against the released version of Tangarine, he could have either sued or claimed authorship of the lyrics. He didn't though he had 6 years to do so.

We have seen it in the Stones world too, with Jones 'defenders' who claimes he should have writing credit for this and that. Funnily enough, Jones himself never argued on that point. Only his 'fans' do.

Your first two points were addressed in the third post in this thread. As for point #3, I can only guess that Relf remained silent on the matter because he would have considered it ungentlemanly to do otherwise. Being ripped off by a total stranger is one thing, but if it's a fellow Yardbird, well, one might be inclined to look the other way.

It's all very very nice and rosey with all these thoughts, but one might know that that's not how it works in the business. People steal and borrow from each other and claim authorship. Old blues musicians stole greatly from each other and no one complained. That's why Zeppelin did it as well. They were 'inspired by' others. We can only guess how we would act, if we were the one's in charge of written and played music and who should get what credit. It's easy for us, sitting behind a PC screen, to play the judges on someone's behalf.

What's a fact is: The whole affair is not and has never been clear. Some claim this, others claim that. Then sympathic fans takes sides, and believe either one, plus they blame the other part.

Of course Jimmy Page, who has claimed the lyrics was his from the start, will not now, 49 years later, suddenly change his mind. If Relf was actually the one who wrote those lyrics and Page suddenly, out of empathy, would credit him, it would be revealed as one big lie from day one. Of course that will not happen.

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics. Relf himself remained silent on the subject, so I doubt he was as butt-hurt as some of his followers are.

And the fact that the track will appear as an instrumental, can't be because Page will not credit Relf and open up his wallet. As already said, that version of the song was never copyrighted in the first place, and Page who claims he wrote the lyrics, could have taken credit for them. He has obviously chosen it to be an instrumental, because he thinks it works better. Not because he would be forced to credit Relf.

Maybe he erased the vocal to avoid having to get permission to use it. Or to avoid future lawsuits.
The last days of the Yardbirds are quite interesting. You had one member -- Jimmy Page -- who was eager and determined and full of energy, and the other members who seemed burned out and fed up.

How tight can you get.
If it's not tight its petty.
If its not petty, its pathetic.
I wonder why success and riches beyond most of our wildest dreams leaves these people so greedy.

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Blueranger

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics.

Only his bandmates? Wouldn't they be the most reliable source?

One day Jimmy Page will run out of material to remaster,remix,
reedit along with moaning about his neighbour etc and eventually get this live band on the road that he has been talking about the last few years...

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tatters

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Blueranger

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics.

Only his bandmates? Wouldn't they be the most reliable source?

Not if they have a thorn in the side of Page and his succes.
A similar story regarding Brian Jones exists, were he should, according to Bill have written the riff to Under My Thumb and Paint It Black. No one, even Charlie, has said anything in that vein. And Bill is a bitter ex-member, using his time to claim authorship for him, Taylor and Brian.

geeeez Jimmy...

It seems the artists who are usually most concerned with this kind of thing are already multi-Millionaires many times over and if they never received another penny they and their heirs are set for a long long time.

It reminds me of the Napster thing where the most vocal opponents of online music sharing were already multi-millionaires... meanwhile an infinite number of "nobodies" were making music and happy to post it online for free... and even happier if anyone actually listened to it and delighted if anyone posted comments that they liked it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-31 01:50 by HankM.

Capitalizing every word of a sentence is almost as annoying als using all caps.

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Koen
Capitalizing every word of a sentence is almost as annoying als using all caps.

Now You Tell Me. After I've Been Doing It For 12 Years.

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HankM
geeeez Jimmy...

It seems the artists who are usually most concerned with this kind of thing are already multi-Millionaires many times over and if they never received another penny they and their heirs are set for a long long time.

It reminds me of the Napster thing where the most vocal opponents of online music sharing were already multi-millionaires... meanwhile an infinite number of "nobodies" were making music and happy to post it online for free... and even happier if anyone actually listened to it and delighted if anyone posted comments that they liked it.

that's a bit of an oversimplification of the issue with napster and distributing copyrighted material without permission

Geez Page you are a multi multi millionaire. 170 million.

Greedy!

[www.celebritynetworth.com]

P.S.

"In Through The Outdoor" Sucks (sorry, I had to say that)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-31 06:45 by More Hot Rocks.

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More Hot Rocks
Geez Page you are a multi multi millionaire. 170 million.

Greedy!

I wonder at what point he wouldn't be overly worried about something small like this, how much money is at risk on this song? Bouttreefiddy?

I understand a little more about the STH lawsuit which could have amounted to millions... but this song?
And when one considers how much borrowing/plagiarizing this band did over time, one might guess he would not get too uppity over a small issue like this.

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Blueranger

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tatters

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Blueranger

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics.

Only his bandmates? Wouldn't they be the most reliable source?

Not if they have a thorn in the side of Page and his succes.
A similar story regarding Brian Jones exists, were he should, according to Bill have written the riff to Under My Thumb and Paint It Black. No one, even Charlie, has said anything in that vein. And Bill is a bitter ex-member, using his time to claim authorship for him, Taylor and Brian.

Paint It, Black?

Hm... do they know that Keith plays the riff..

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DandelionPowderman

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Blueranger

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tatters

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Blueranger

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics.

Only his bandmates? Wouldn't they be the most reliable source?

Not if they have a thorn in the side of Page and his succes.
A similar story regarding Brian Jones exists, were he should, according to Bill have written the riff to Under My Thumb and Paint It Black. No one, even Charlie, has said anything in that vein. And Bill is a bitter ex-member, using his time to claim authorship for him, Taylor and Brian.

Paint It, Black?

Hm... do they know that Keith plays the riff..

because someone PLAYS a riff doesn't mean they wrote it.

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keefriffhard4life

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DandelionPowderman

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Blueranger

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tatters

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Blueranger

Again, only bandmates and experts claims Relf wrote the lyrics.

Only his bandmates? Wouldn't they be the most reliable source?

Not if they have a thorn in the side of Page and his succes.
A similar story regarding Brian Jones exists, were he should, according to Bill have written the riff to Under My Thumb and Paint It Black. No one, even Charlie, has said anything in that vein. And Bill is a bitter ex-member, using his time to claim authorship for him, Taylor and Brian.

Paint It, Black?

Hm... do they know that Keith plays the riff..

because someone PLAYS a riff doesn't mean they wrote it.

But MANY believe that the electric guitar that starts the song is Brian on sitar (hence this misconception).