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Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: hopkins ()
Date: August 13, 2017 01:25

Quote
bleedingman
In "Stone Alone" Bill says Mick was playing guitar before he met him.

Ray Davies is an excellent guitarist. He and Dave "weave" quite a bit.

What a great reminder. I am a partuclar fan of what Dave did in the band; but Ray was such a powerful and tasteful rhythm player; he's really got chops; he has done amazing work actually; and all through his catalog; Never saw them live to my great sadness, especially early 70's, but very many live vids and etc...live tv spots by the dozen and etc...also...
...often in concert, Lola comes immediately to mind but certainly not restricted to that one only, he would start if out with crisp precise moving rhythm on acoustic; and really lead the band and drive it home. It's hard to convey how great a lead guitar player was Dave; just beautiful weaving sparkling lines that always went somewhere; that brother thing; that intuitive magic thing...
Ray surely an under-rated guiitarist, but The Kinks are a very under-rated band imo; Makes them all the more precious and unique to me; they don't really ever follow trends...when everyone was going psychdelic and wildly hard, Ray was into Village Green Preservation Society and Arthur ...and had already stunned the world with Waterloo Sunset; A very high ether; a brian wilson, beatles, stones level of originality and personal vision, and for a quite a sustained period imo.

_________________________________________________________
"...ding dong, oh yeah..."
"...put your hand on the heat, put your hand on the heat..."

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 13, 2017 01:32



................... Gotta Get A Grip ...........

ROCKMAN

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 13, 2017 01:51

Quote
hopkins
Quote
bleedingman
In "Stone Alone" Bill says Mick was playing guitar before he met him.

Ray Davies is an excellent guitarist. He and Dave "weave" quite a bit.

What a great reminder. I am a partuclar fan of what Dave did in the band; but Ray was such a powerful and tasteful rhythm player; he's really got chops; he has done amazing work actually; and all through his catalog; Never saw them live to my great sadness, especially early 70's, but very many live vids and etc...live tv spots by the dozen and etc...also...
...often in concert, Lola comes immediately to mind but certainly not restricted to that one only, he would start if out with crisp precise moving rhythm on acoustic; and really lead the band and drive it home. It's hard to convey how great a lead guitar player was Dave; just beautiful weaving sparkling lines that always went somewhere; that brother thing; that intuitive magic thing...
Ray surely an under-rated guiitarist, but The Kinks are a very under-rated band imo; Makes them all the more precious and unique to me; they don't really ever follow trends...when everyone was going psychdelic and wildly hard, Ray was into Village Green Preservation Society and Arthur ...and had already stunned the world with Waterloo Sunset; A very high ether; a brian wilson, beatles, stones level of originality and personal vision, and for a quite a sustained period imo.

Yes I was mistaken to agree with whoever said he was a "so so guitarist" as he's obviously a well above average guitar player - not to mention a genius songwriter. Together, Ray and Dave were like a two headed monster!

The Kinks - Juke Box Music




.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 15:06

Quote
Rockman
This thread should be renamed "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" by now... it has reached a degree of ridiculousness that could be simply regarded as pure comedy but on the other hand begs the question why certain people who claim that they simply don't like Mick's solo material in general spend a great deal of their time (precious lifetime, btw !) in a thread about a new solo single, not only endlessly repeating how much they dislike the single, but by now are "discussing" supposedly "amateurish" instrumental skills as a reason for "inconsistent" songwriting, some even calling Mick a "liability" or "burden" for the Stones or claiming to be able to write better lyrics/poetry than Mick. It must be some kind of a psychological thing...


Here's another masterpiece ..... man is this this the truth ... thanks retired_dog

You two guys need to get a room.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 15:08

Quote
Rockman


................... Gotta Get A Grip ...........


Why do you keep putting this Gotta Get A Grip poster on the pages over and over again. We have all seen it. Someone obviously keeps throwing you a bone, that would explain a lot.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 15:20

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Its the lack of tolerance to opposing attitudes that ruins this place.
Doxa may have disagreed with a lot of peoples views on Mick but he was never personal and he never ganged up to attack a poster. The guy has class.
I have learned so much about people here and its not nice.
Think how boring it would be if everyone constantly raved on about how great this new single is. I have been driven out of this place, its unbearable, well done guys you win. I will concentrate on other things now. Cheers and gone.

That's not the point and you know it.

There's been a lot of interesting viewspoints and opinions about the single here, some like it, some not - I for one like it, said it's a lot better than I expected, while knowing that it's of course not in the league of, let's say Memo From Turner imo.

But what I strongly object to is the constant campaigning against Mick Jagger by some here,last but not least the lead singer of our favourite band, that's what I called "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" - making solely him responsible for all the shortcomings of the Stones creative process in recent years to the point of ridiculing him, even calling the man a "liability for the Stones". And wasn't the "find him some maracas!"-joke from you? Add to that the constant "love/like/respect Mick"-claims, looking a bit like the snake in the grass who's constantly claiming he's your friend, but jumping on the first opportunity to bite you.

If you feel that people here "ganged up" against you, let me say that I did not gang up with anybody, I just expressed my personal opinions as good as I could. But it appears that I'm not the only one who noticed all this and found it rather strange to say the least. Maybe you should take this as a reason to reflect and rethink your own behaviour instead of feeling persecuted for no reason because the latter is cheap.

And oh, yes, Doxa has class, indeed.[/quot








I only said somebody find him some maracas as a joke. All the other things mentioned come from other posters. Can't anyone say anything negative about Mick or is it just me that can't . Would it please you if everyone who has something negative to say about Mick gets banned. I think you would like that. I actually said i liked GGAG, i have never said i don't like it, but i got bored with it pretty quick.
I don't give a toss how many Micketts gang up on me.
I want to talk about how it all went wrong for Mick. How did this Rock god get to a point when he might be remembered for GGAG.
We don't just join this thread to keep you happy with cheerful things to say about Mick. I am never personal to you or MisterDDD or who ever tries to call me out. I just keep talking about the man in question the way i see it, because its fascinating. I'm not interested in pleasing you, if you want to have a discussion about Mick, lets have one, but you don't have to be personal against me. Do you understand dog. Lots of people have dropped in to say they don't like Micks latest efforts, i'm not on my own here. This thread is not reserved for fanboys like yourself and your friends. Savvy..
And mate, you don't have any class.
What goes round comes round Dog, bring it on !!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-13 15:29 by stone4ever.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: corriecas ()
Date: August 13, 2017 15:42

Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 15:43

Quote
corriecas
Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

thumbs up

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 16:05

Quote
corriecas
Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

thumbs up i agree, but if someone on here like retireddog and a few others actively follow me to keep putting me down in a personal way , i'm going to defend myself. Would you say its fair to defend yourself ??
Micks Mick, he is the Jag, if i don't like his solo work so much as the Stones i can say that, what i don't expect is for people to take that as a personal insult. I don't take it as a personal insult when people say Keith can't play very well these days, i say it myself, its a fact. We are all grown up's here, the Stones are not above criticism

Yes corriecas it would be lovely if we could all draw a line over this now and try to get on. I'm more than willing to say sorry to retireddog and i do understand that i have been too heavy handed about Mick. I will try to be more balanced from now on where Mick is concerned.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: August 13, 2017 16:49

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Its the lack of tolerance to opposing attitudes that ruins this place.
Doxa may have disagreed with a lot of peoples views on Mick but he was never personal and he never ganged up to attack a poster. The guy has class.
I have learned so much about people here and its not nice.
Think how boring it would be if everyone constantly raved on about how great this new single is. I have been driven out of this place, its unbearable, well done guys you win. I will concentrate on other things now. Cheers and gone.

That's not the point and you know it.

There's been a lot of interesting viewspoints and opinions about the single here, some like it, some not - I for one like it, said it's a lot better than I expected, while knowing that it's of course not in the league of, let's say Memo From Turner imo.

But what I strongly object to is the constant campaigning against Mick Jagger by some here,last but not least the lead singer of our favourite band, that's what I called "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" - making solely him responsible for all the shortcomings of the Stones creative process in recent years to the point of ridiculing him, even calling the man a "liability for the Stones". And wasn't the "find him some maracas!"-joke from you? Add to that the constant "love/like/respect Mick"-claims, looking a bit like the snake in the grass who's constantly claiming he's your friend, but jumping on the first opportunity to bite you.

If you feel that people here "ganged up" against you, let me say that I did not gang up with anybody, I just expressed my personal opinions as good as I could. But it appears that I'm not the only one who noticed all this and found it rather strange to say the least. Maybe you should take this as a reason to reflect and rethink your own behaviour instead of feeling persecuted for no reason because the latter is cheap.

And oh, yes, Doxa has class, indeed.


I don't give a toss how many Micketts gang up on me.
I want to talk about how it all went wrong for Mick. How did this Rock god get to a point when he might be remembered for GGAG.
We don't just join this thread to keep you happy with cheerful things to say about Mick. I am never personal to you or MisterDDD or who ever tries to call me out. I just keep talking about the man in question the way i see it, because its fascinating. I'm not interested in pleasing you, if you want to have a discussion about Mick, lets have one, but you don't have to be personal against me. Do you understand dog. Lots of people have dropped in to say they don't like Micks latest efforts, i'm not on my own here. This thread is not reserved for fanboys like yourself and your friends. Savvy..
And mate, you don't have any class.
What goes round comes round Dog, bring it on !!

Now clumsily on the mobile:

I probably am a complete outsider at exactly this point.

To me, what went wrong for Mick, was when the Rolling Stones no longer were able thoroughly to renew their fanbase, even if some younger fans still joined their fanbase (and for instance may be active on this site). When? Sometimes during the first half of the 1980s. From then onwards the Rolling Stones became the prey of the increasing conservatism of the majority of their fans as they grew older. Moderate interest in their new studio albums and concert setlists more and more taken from some of their earlier years, became consequences. The band thereby got weakened incentives to make new music. This fact also contributes to deepening the disagreement between Keith and Mick as to what kind of music can a Rolling Stones album involve. This disagreement and the public's vanishing real interest in new Stones releases have been parts of a vicious circle.

Eventually the band now once more wanted to try a release of new Rolling Stones music. Then the decades long disagreement between Mick and Keith became a stumbling block. That disagrerment in views and policy somehow has got its parallelle on fans' attitudes, but not in a too easy way. Not all fans, whose disposition is to be open towards novelties in Stones music, like the two songs. But some individuals, who do not like them very much, seem still to be wellcoming them, in the belief or hope that following them, other following songs may also be released more to their liking.

Myself I both do like the two songs at least quite much, and also I wonder if there may follow even better songs from that musical territory. That is, the release of those songs are not token that it has all gone wrong. That, or rather a shade of such a description , happened much before. Those two songs are to me instead signs of life. Signs of a possibility of a phase after a finished post 1989 phase. A new phase possibly containing in its turn also music from other musical styles later on. However, it seems that Keith's attitude will prevent such a development. The question is how to evade that hinder.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 17:14

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
corriecas
Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

thumbs up i agree, but if someone on here like retireddog and a few others actively follow me to keep putting me down in a personal way , i'm going to defend myself. Would you say its fair to defend yourself ??
Micks Mick, he is the Jag, if i don't like his solo work so much as the Stones i can say that, what i don't expect is for people to take that as a personal insult. I don't take it as a personal insult when people say Keith can't play very well these days, i say it myself, its a fact. We are all grown up's here, the Stones are not above criticism

Yes corriecas it would be lovely if we could all draw a line over this now and try to get on. I'm more than willing to say sorry to retireddog and i do understand that i have been too heavy handed about Mick. I will try to be more balanced from now on where Mick is concerned.

Everybody is entitled to post their opinions, negative or positive. I don't think people took your criticism of Mick as an insult but rather your constant repeating of it, so it might have gotten a bit provocative (in the same way some people tried to provoke those, who liked CH when it was released by constantly repeating how bad it is).
But everything is settled now and I didn't intend to insult you in any way, just tried to express my feelings about it.

Hope to meet you somewhere in Paris in October!

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 17:17

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
corriecas
Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

thumbs up i agree, but if someone on here like retireddog and a few others actively follow me to keep putting me down in a personal way , i'm going to defend myself. Would you say its fair to defend yourself ??
Micks Mick, he is the Jag, if i don't like his solo work so much as the Stones i can say that, what i don't expect is for people to take that as a personal insult. I don't take it as a personal insult when people say Keith can't play very well these days, i say it myself, its a fact. We are all grown up's here, the Stones are not above criticism

Yes corriecas it would be lovely if we could all draw a line over this now and try to get on. I'm more than willing to say sorry to retireddog and i do understand that i have been too heavy handed about Mick. I will try to be more balanced from now on where Mick is concerned.

My dear riffhards. We're all prisoners of our own perspectives. In the post that inflamed a few people, you made some claims that at least in my view were demonstrably false, regardless of which side of the Mick/Keith fence you find yourself on:

I'm with hairball, i want to pin point what went wrong with Mick, why he feels the need to distance himself from the Stones when he is the Stones. I love this band and have always been confused as to why Mick acts like they are a ball and chain or something. look at the money he earns by performing with them. Mick is worth over £300 million pounds. He should praise them for keeping up with him all these years. Charlie, Keith and Ronnie are so loyal towards this band. Look at Ronnie, just over cancer, one of the worst types you can get, but he still goes out there for the band. None of them need the money, i just wish Mick had a little bit more affection for the Stones instead of trying to distance himself and keep trying to take some extra glory with a stunt like this latest one.
There is cause and effect in life, i don't think its by chance that Mick makes fans angry with him, i think its for good reason, the man sold out in the mid 80's and hasn't stopped selling out since.


*Mick distances himself from The Stones: because he released a song?

*Charlie, Keith, and Ron are more loyal to The Stones than Mick is: shall we add up everyone's solo albums and then determine which band members are most 'loyal' to The Stones? C'mon, everybody plays with other people; it's just no big deal.

*Mick has no affection for the band: Really? Does he criticize them publicly? Does he call any of them out for personal problems? Does he not appear, at least as often as any member of the band, with other members of the band at public events? How has he distanced himself, really, in comparison with the others?

*Mick's a sell-out: I'm not sure exactly what you mean here ... but I do think he IS a sell-out, if by sell-out you mean the endless touring of greatest hits with no injection of new musical inspiration ... and so are Ron, Keith, and Charlie.

You know as well as I do that there would not even BE a Rolling Stones touring the world today w/o the unremitting drive and intensity of Mick Jagger. I'm not saying that's a good thing, necessarily, but it is what it is.

I would never call you out for preferring Keith's solo music to Mick's. (Well, I have, but that was a dick thing to do, on my part.) That's your right, and there are many people here who feel just like you do. But claims like the ones above, which are not primarily based in music are just inflammatory, in my opinion, because they are so easily disproved and they can come across as trolling.

I'm sure Mick Jagger can be a colossal @#$%& in real life, a real prima donna. I suspect the same is true of ALL the Stones. And what motivates them at this stage of their careers, how they interact, how they produce music, all of that is speculation for everyone here ... since no one really KNOWS much of anything.

I will defend to the death your right to think Mick's music sucks and Keith's rocks. You are a passionate defender of what you enjoy and I love that about you. But when you venture into areas like the ones cited above, at least in my opinion, you seem to me like you're spoiling for a fight.

Anyway, there's my tuppence (are there still tuppences?) Rock on, my young British friend.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 17:33

Quote
Witness
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Its the lack of tolerance to opposing attitudes that ruins this place.
Doxa may have disagreed with a lot of peoples views on Mick but he was never personal and he never ganged up to attack a poster. The guy has class.
I have learned so much about people here and its not nice.
Think how boring it would be if everyone constantly raved on about how great this new single is. I have been driven out of this place, its unbearable, well done guys you win. I will concentrate on other things now. Cheers and gone.

That's not the point and you know it.

There's been a lot of interesting viewspoints and opinions about the single here, some like it, some not - I for one like it, said it's a lot better than I expected, while knowing that it's of course not in the league of, let's say Memo From Turner imo.

But what I strongly object to is the constant campaigning against Mick Jagger by some here,last but not least the lead singer of our favourite band, that's what I called "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" - making solely him responsible for all the shortcomings of the Stones creative process in recent years to the point of ridiculing him, even calling the man a "liability for the Stones". And wasn't the "find him some maracas!"-joke from you? Add to that the constant "love/like/respect Mick"-claims, looking a bit like the snake in the grass who's constantly claiming he's your friend, but jumping on the first opportunity to bite you.

If you feel that people here "ganged up" against you, let me say that I did not gang up with anybody, I just expressed my personal opinions as good as I could. But it appears that I'm not the only one who noticed all this and found it rather strange to say the least. Maybe you should take this as a reason to reflect and rethink your own behaviour instead of feeling persecuted for no reason because the latter is cheap.

And oh, yes, Doxa has class, indeed.


I don't give a toss how many Micketts gang up on me.
I want to talk about how it all went wrong for Mick. How did this Rock god get to a point when he might be remembered for GGAG.
We don't just join this thread to keep you happy with cheerful things to say about Mick. I am never personal to you or MisterDDD or who ever tries to call me out. I just keep talking about the man in question the way i see it, because its fascinating. I'm not interested in pleasing you, if you want to have a discussion about Mick, lets have one, but you don't have to be personal against me. Do you understand dog. Lots of people have dropped in to say they don't like Micks latest efforts, i'm not on my own here. This thread is not reserved for fanboys like yourself and your friends. Savvy..
And mate, you don't have any class.
What goes round comes round Dog, bring it on !!

Now clumsily on the mobile:

I probably am a complete outsider at exactly this point.

To me, what went wrong for Mick, was when the Rolling Stones no longer were able thoroughly to renew their fanbase, even if some younger fans still joined their fanbase (and for instance may be active on this site). When? Sometimes during the first half of the 1980s. From then onwards the Rolling Stones became the prey of the increasing conservatism of the majority of their fans as they grew older. Moderate interest in their new studio albums and concert setlists more and more taken from some of their earlier years, became consequences. The band thereby got weakened incentives to make new music. This fact also contributes to deepening the disagreement between Keith and Mick as to what kind of music can a Rolling Stones album involve. This disagreement and the public's vanishing real interest in new Stones releases have been parts of a vicious circle.

Eventually the band now once more wanted to try a release of new Rolling Stones music. Then the decades long disagreement between Mick and Keith became a stumbling block. That disagrerment in views and policy somehow has got its parallelle on fans' attitudes, but not in a too easy way. Not all fans, whose disposition is to be open towards novelties in Stones music, like the two songs. But some individuals, who do not like them very much, seem still to be wellcoming them, in the belief or hope that following them, other following songs may also be released more to their liking.

Myself I both do like the two songs at least quite much, and also I wonder if there may follow even better songs from that musical territory. That is, the release of those songs are not token that it has all gone wrong. That, or rather a shade of such a description , happened much before. Those two songs are to me instead signs of life. Signs of a possibility of a phase after a finished post 1989 phase. A new phase possibly containing in its turn also music from other musical styles later on. However, it seems that Keith's attitude will prevent such a development. The question is how to evade that hinder.

''How to evade that hinder'', that did make me laugh Witness, and laughing has been in short supply lately. To see Keith with his stubborn determination to make one last album with Mick, full of great Stones type songs, should not be seen as a hindrance. Its a job to work out where you are coming from with this attitude towards Keith because Keith kind of represents the sound of the Stones to some degree. I would imagine most Stones fans like the Stones sound, Rock if you like, with a fair amount of roll, and a few ballads thrown in for good measure.
It would appear that the last three or four Stones albums of originals have been more Mick's baby's as opposed to keith's. Would it be fair to say that Keith has not been such a dominant force since Tattoo You. Could i dare to say that the production has been more Micks than Keiths. If we are disappointed with the Stones albums since Undercover ( albums that are predominately Micks ) would it not be a good idea for a return of the Riffmaster taking the reigns for a change.
Or are you just done with the Stones sound, bored with it or something ?

Getting back to what went wrong with Mick almost coincides with Keith getting it right. I think Keith took full advantage when Mick went solo and was seen by fans as forsaking the Stones. Keith very carefully used this opportunity to come across as the good guy. But he wasn't, i think keith drove Mick away at the time, early to mid 80's, i bet keith was unbearable to work with , the coke fueled keith was a different animal to the heroin Junkie keith, he was very forceful and it looked like his ego had gone wild. Its clear to see in interviews he did at the time.
You can see keith becoming this larger than life figure in 81' signs were clear to see on that tour on the faces of Mick and keith, it looked like all out war some nights.
I think this was the break off split between them, Mick had had enough.
Actually wait a minute i can't say all this here , i'm on the wrong thread. sorry will do this somewhere else, or write my own book or something eye rolling smiley

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 17:46

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
corriecas
Listening to it on my phone now ggag.it really sounds good.its sad how many people attack Mick now and are nasty to eachother.not really worth being crazy at each other..is it.lets stay friendly and nice to other people even when we dont agree.its okay to have different opinions but keep it nice.its a cruel world out there already.
Jeroen

thumbs up i agree, but if someone on here like retireddog and a few others actively follow me to keep putting me down in a personal way , i'm going to defend myself. Would you say its fair to defend yourself ??
Micks Mick, he is the Jag, if i don't like his solo work so much as the Stones i can say that, what i don't expect is for people to take that as a personal insult. I don't take it as a personal insult when people say Keith can't play very well these days, i say it myself, its a fact. We are all grown up's here, the Stones are not above criticism

Yes corriecas it would be lovely if we could all draw a line over this now and try to get on. I'm more than willing to say sorry to retireddog and i do understand that i have been too heavy handed about Mick. I will try to be more balanced from now on where Mick is concerned.

My dear riffhards. We're all prisoners of our own perspectives. In the post that inflamed a few people, you made some claims that at least in my view were demonstrably false, regardless of which side of the Mick/Keith fence you find yourself on:

I'm with hairball, i want to pin point what went wrong with Mick, why he feels the need to distance himself from the Stones when he is the Stones. I love this band and have always been confused as to why Mick acts like they are a ball and chain or something. look at the money he earns by performing with them. Mick is worth over £300 million pounds. He should praise them for keeping up with him all these years. Charlie, Keith and Ronnie are so loyal towards this band. Look at Ronnie, just over cancer, one of the worst types you can get, but he still goes out there for the band. None of them need the money, i just wish Mick had a little bit more affection for the Stones instead of trying to distance himself and keep trying to take some extra glory with a stunt like this latest one.
There is cause and effect in life, i don't think its by chance that Mick makes fans angry with him, i think its for good reason, the man sold out in the mid 80's and hasn't stopped selling out since.


*Mick distances himself from The Stones: because he released a song?

*Charlie, Keith, and Ron are more loyal to The Stones than Mick is: shall we add up everyone's solo albums and then determine which band members are most 'loyal' to The Stones? C'mon, everybody plays with other people; it's just no big deal.

*Mick has no affection for the band: Really? Does he criticize them publicly? Does he call any of them out for personal problems? Does he not appear, at least as often as any member of the band, with other members of the band at public events? How has he distanced himself, really, in comparison with the others?

*Mick's a sell-out: I'm not sure exactly what you mean here ... but I do think he IS a sell-out, if by sell-out you mean the endless touring of greatest hits with no injection of new musical inspiration ... and so are Ron, Keith, and Charlie.

You know as well as I do that there would not even BE a Rolling Stones touring the world today w/o the unremitting drive and intensity of Mick Jagger. I'm not saying that's a good thing, necessarily, but it is what it is.

I would never call you out for preferring Keith's solo music to Mick's. (Well, I have, but that was a dick thing to do, on my part.) That's your right, and there are many people here who feel just like you do. But claims like the ones above, which are not primarily based in music are just inflammatory, in my opinion, because they are so easily disproved and they can come across as trolling.

I'm sure Mick Jagger can be a colossal @#$%& in real life, a real prima donna. I suspect the same is true of ALL the Stones. And what motivates them at this stage of their careers, how they interact, how they produce music, all of that is speculation for everyone here ... since no one really KNOWS much of anything.

I will defend to the death your right to think Mick's music sucks and Keith's rocks. You are a passionate defender of what you enjoy and I love that about you. But when you venture into areas like the ones cited above, at least in my opinion, you seem to me like you're spoiling for a fight.

Anyway, there's my tuppence (are there still tuppences?) Rock on, my young British friend.

Okay Mike, you know i love ya, i consider myself well and truly told off. Thank you for that mate.
Can i just point out that i was referring to Micks previous efforts to rid himself of the Stones, not just this recent one with the new singles.
I believe the only reason Mick still tours with the Stones is for money, he can't earn that kind of dosh on his own. I think he hates keith's guts, but as you say that's impossible to prove. Oh shit there i go again, i'm doing it already eye rolling smiley

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 17:53

Quote
stone4ever
Okay Mike, you know i love ya, i consider myself well and truly told off. Thank you for that mate.
Can i just point out that i was referring to Micks previous efforts to rid himself of the Stones, not just this recent one with the new singles.
I believe the only reason Mick still tours with the Stones is for money, he can't earn that kind of dosh on his own. I think he hates keith's guts, but as you say that's impossible to prove. Oh shit there i go again, i'm doing it already eye rolling smiley
Totally agree. I also feel that the only reason Keith, Ron, and Charlie still tour is for the money. Don't think they'd mangle all those old warhorses every night for free!

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:02

I am not bored with the Rolling Stones sound. But then I take the whold career in view. What I am delighting in, is how changing that sound were. Then I want some development once again. As to the analogy, I favour saying a glass is half or three quarter full instead of empty, when it is not full. UNDERCOVER was to me the last time, when the glass was full. However, about BRIDGES TO BABYLON I have posted that I see it as verging on the semi-great. Then above I referred to Mick to times resigning to the conservatism in large circles of their fanbase and the diminished incentives to perfectionate their issues. But then I see more of Mick's old spirit and ambition in these two songs.

Now I will prepare to be at the stands for a football match tonight, so no more responses. Some busy work time from tomorrow. Scarce posting.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:07

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
Okay Mike, you know i love ya, i consider myself well and truly told off. Thank you for that mate.
Can i just point out that i was referring to Micks previous efforts to rid himself of the Stones, not just this recent one with the new singles.
I believe the only reason Mick still tours with the Stones is for money, he can't earn that kind of dosh on his own. I think he hates keith's guts, but as you say that's impossible to prove. Oh shit there i go again, i'm doing it already eye rolling smiley
Totally agree. I also feel that the only reason Keith, Ron, and Charlie still tour is for the money. Don't think they'd mangle all those old warhorses every night for free!

I disagree at least to some extent.

I think that they do it also very much for the adoration. And maybe avoid the emptyness with not having work to do.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Socrates1 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:09

What a difference a day can make. I can just watch the sports stations whenever I decide to turn the tv on. I've become used to doing that now. I don't have to read the news sites online either. I can ignore all that stuff, too. Yesterday started out watching baseball.. kind of whistling this song, "Gotta Get A Grip" quietly to myself, thinking about some funny thing Dave Letterman used to say. Then by the time I turn on the real news, at night, I never want to hear this song again. The window of time for this song was opened and now it's closed. It couldn't be released today.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:11

Quote
Witness
I am not bored with the Rolling Stones sound. But then I take the whold career in view. What I am delighting in, is how changing that sound were. Then I want some development once again. As to the analogy, I favour saying a glass is half or three quarter full instead of empty, when it is not full. UNDERCOVER was to me the last time, when the glass was full. However, about BRIDGES TO BABYLON I have posted that I see it as verging on the semi-great. Then above I referred to Mick to times resigning to the conservatism in large circles of their fanbase and the diminished incentives to perfectionate their issues. But then I see more of Mick's old spirit and ambition in these two songs.

Now I will prepare to be at the stands for a football match tonight, so no more responses. Some busy work time from tomorrow. Scarce posting.

Yeah i know the feeling, have a good one tonight.
I thought Voodoo lounge was the best of a bad bunch. Undercover has got better over time, didn't know what to think of it when it came out but i loved it after 4 or 5 plays. It was ahead of its time i think. A very dark powerful album. Voodoo Lounge hasn't weathered so well though. Going back to Micks remixes now.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:11

Quote
Witness
Now I will prepare to be at the stands for a football match tonight,

Hope you don't get soaked. Still, you could always go home and smoke a joint.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:26

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
Okay Mike, you know i love ya, i consider myself well and truly told off. Thank you for that mate.
Can i just point out that i was referring to Micks previous efforts to rid himself of the Stones, not just this recent one with the new singles.
I believe the only reason Mick still tours with the Stones is for money, he can't earn that kind of dosh on his own. I think he hates keith's guts, but as you say that's impossible to prove. Oh shit there i go again, i'm doing it already eye rolling smiley
Totally agree. I also feel that the only reason Keith, Ron, and Charlie still tour is for the money. Don't think they'd mangle all those old warhorses every night for free!

Yes i believe the other three like money too, Ronnie at the time of separating from Jo was down to his last few million. Keith i am increasingly noticing loves money far more than i realized. Money is addictive.
Of course they all do it for the adoration too, but if the numbers don't add up, or stack up highly enough its a no show. We have seen tours that were rumored cancelled several times due to the economy and demand. Micks a numbers guy, he loves that and good luck to him. He is going to charge the most he can get away with. I would say that the other three would still do it if the ticket prices were a fraction of what they are, it would have to be a much smaller scaled down production though, i don't think Micks interested in doing this unless its big big bucks. Sorry but that is a fact.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:34

Quote
Socrates1
What a difference a day can make. I can just watch the sports stations whenever I decide to turn the tv on. I've become used to doing that now. I don't have to read the news sites online either. I can ignore all that stuff, too. Yesterday started out watching baseball.. kind of whistling this song, "Gotta Get A Grip" quietly to myself, thinking about some funny thing Dave Letterman used to say. Then by the time I turn on the real news, at night, I never want to hear this song again. The window of time for this song was opened and now it's closed. It couldn't be released today.

Hi Socrates good to have you back, yes its a song that gets boring very quickly down to its simplicity i think. But the remixes are keeping me coming back for more smiling smiley

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:34

Quote
stone4ever
I would say that the other three would still do it if the ticket prices were a fraction of what they are, it would have to be a much smaller scaled down production though, i don't think Micks interested in doing this unless its big big bucks. Sorry but that is a fact.

Wellllllll ... it's not literally a fact, it's really just something you "would say" or something you "think." It may be true, if your guess/inference is correct ... or it may not be.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 18:38

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
I would say that the other three would still do it if the ticket prices were a fraction of what they are, it would have to be a much smaller scaled down production though, i don't think Micks interested in doing this unless its big big bucks. Sorry but that is a fact.

Wellllllll ... it's not literally a fact, it's really just something you "would say" or something you "think." It may be true, if your guess/inference is correct ... or it may not be.

Haha i'm learning LB, very very slowly but i'm learning. Now that is a fact, because i am me, and i said it, and i know me. I think.
I'm like Mick, a nice bunch of guys, welllll some of the me's aren't so nice as it turns out. I Gotta Get A Grip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-13 18:48 by stone4ever.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:03

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
I would say that the other three would still do it if the ticket prices were a fraction of what they are, it would have to be a much smaller scaled down production though, i don't think Micks interested in doing this unless its big big bucks. Sorry but that is a fact.

Wellllllll ... it's not literally a fact, it's really just something you "would say" or something you "think." It may be true, if your guess/inference is correct ... or it may not be.

Haha i'm learning LB, very very slowly but i'm learning. Now that is a fact, because i am me, and i said it, and i know me. I think.
I'm like Mick, a nice bunch of guys, welllll some of the me's aren't so nice as it turns out. I Gotta Get A Grip.

I've changed my mind. This thread should not be renamed "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" as previously suggested, but "Stone4ever's Philosophy Of The World" instead. Must be marked "OT" then, of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-13 19:06 by retired_dog.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:09

didn't he make a grand exit?....got to get a grip.

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Socrates1 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:16

Me or Riffhards? Everybody just keep doing your thing. I'm not posting again. This is an illusion or something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-13 19:25 by Socrates1.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:26

Quote
Socrates1
Me or Riffhards? Everybody just keep doing your thing.


[www.youtube.com]

Me Socrates i'm afraid.
I have made three grand exits in three weeks. i'm trying to beat Doxa's record.
I have to keep coming back to defend myself. If people stop accusing me of things haven't said then i will go away quietly.
Now lets see what happens. if they want me gone from this thread they need only to stop saying i have said things that other posters have said. I mentioned bloody maracas and all hell broke loose. Its a long story.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:28

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
stone4ever
I would say that the other three would still do it if the ticket prices were a fraction of what they are, it would have to be a much smaller scaled down production though, i don't think Micks interested in doing this unless its big big bucks. Sorry but that is a fact.

Wellllllll ... it's not literally a fact, it's really just something you "would say" or something you "think." It may be true, if your guess/inference is correct ... or it may not be.

Haha i'm learning LB, very very slowly but i'm learning. Now that is a fact, because i am me, and i said it, and i know me. I think.
I'm like Mick, a nice bunch of guys, welllll some of the me's aren't so nice as it turns out. I Gotta Get A Grip.

I've changed my mind. This thread should not be renamed "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" as previously suggested, but "Stone4ever's Philosophy Of The World" instead. Must be marked "OT" then, of course.

Now that was funny, i mean truly funny, i had to laugh at that thumbs up

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Socrates1 ()
Date: August 13, 2017 19:32


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