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Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 11, 2017 17:10

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman




[www.youtube.com]

Oh dear
Can't somebody find him some maracas to play with or something

Perhaps you could holler up to mum from the basement and see if she can help.
#troll

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: IrelandCalling4 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 17:26

I read a few pages ago in the thread that Charlie and Ronnie may be playing on one of these tracks, any reliable source (couldn't find anything on google on who played on these)?

A good showing No. 2 in USA, even given the sorry state of charts, the single still was the second most purchased. Better than if it had gone in at number 52^

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Date: August 11, 2017 17:29

Quote
IrelandCalling4
I read a few pages ago in the thread that Charlie and Ronnie may be playing on one of these tracks, any reliable source (couldn't find anything on google on who played on these)?

A good showing No. 2 in USA, even given the sorry state of charts, the single still was the second most purchased. Better than if it had gone in at number 52^

They're credited on both tracks, I believe.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 18:07

Quote
DandelionPowderman




[www.youtube.com]

Yeah! Let's see Leo Sayer try to top that!

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 18:41

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman




[www.youtube.com]

Oh dear
Can't somebody find him some maracas to play with or something

Lol-if that video was meant to show Mick is a great guitar player, then I guess beauty is indeed in the ears of the beholder (no offense Dandelion).
Not too bad, but he's playing the most simplistic rhythm and slide imaginable. This is not necessarily a criticism of Mick as a musician (which he is),
but more of a commentary that his strengths lie elsewhere - as the singer and front man for the Stones.
If it wasn't Mick in that video, I doubt it would ever be shown here as an example of great guitar playing technique.

I repeat:

Yes he can play simplistic rudimentary guitar, and yes he has written some good tunes "on his own" based on his guitar "skills"(Brown Sugar, Sway, etc.),
but generally speaking the music lacks something with most songs he writes and/or releases on his own.

JUST MY OPINION.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-11 18:44 by Hairball.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Date: August 11, 2017 18:52

Quote
Hairball
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
DandelionPowderman




[www.youtube.com]

Oh dear
Can't somebody find him some maracas to play with or something

Lol-if that video was meant to show Mick is a great guitar player, then I guess beauty is indeed in the ears of the beholder (no offense Dandelion).
Not too bad, but he's playing the most simplistic rhythm and slide imaginable. This is not necessarily a criticism of Mick as a musician (which he is),
but more of a commentary that his strengths lie elsewhere - as the singer and front man for the Stones.
If it wasn't Mick in that video, I doubt it would ever be shown here as an example of great guitar playing technique.

I repeat:

Yes he can play simplistic rudimentary guitar, and yes he has written some good tunes "on his own" based on his guitar "skills"(Brown Sugar, Sway, etc.),
but generally speaking the music lacks something with most songs he writes and/or releases on his own.

JUST MY OPINION.


I think for Rolling Stones standards Jagger's playing is more than ok.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 18:54

Quote
Hairball
Yes he can play simplistic rudimentary guitar, and yes he has written some good tunes "on his own" based on his guitar "skills"(Brown Sugar, Sway, etc.),
but generally speaking the music lacks something with most songs he writes and/or releases on his own.

JUST MY OPINION.

I have an idea. Is there an authoritative list anywhere of "Mick on his own," and "Keith on his own" songs? There are many people who think Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes.

I don't think of any Rolling Stones songs as complex. So let's have a look at the musically impoverished Mick songs as opposed to the more richly nuanced Keith songs. I'm always in the mood to be enlightened!

None of the dudes in this band are virtuosos on their chosen instruments; they just make a cool racket together and it seems a bit ... odd to me to be harping on how one of their two songwriters is weak because he can't play guitar better.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:12

Mick is a VERY good rhythm guitar player, as can be heard on Miss You these days (some of the recent IEM bootlegs have his guitar quite high up). He knows how to drive the song. I think when Mick plays guitar these days, he does more to fill up the sound scape than Keith does. Just listen to the recent live versions of She's a Rainbow. His guitar isn't at all inaudible...

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:18

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
Hairball
Yes he can play simplistic rudimentary guitar, and yes he has written some good tunes "on his own" based on his guitar "skills"(Brown Sugar, Sway, etc.),
but generally speaking the music lacks something with most songs he writes and/or releases on his own.

JUST MY OPINION.

I have an idea. Is there an authoritative list anywhere of "Mick on his own," and "Keith on his own" songs? There are many people who think Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes.

I don't think of any Rolling Stones songs as complex. So let's have a look at the musically impoverished Mick songs as opposed to the more richly nuanced Keith songs. I'm always in the mood to be enlightened!

None of the dudes in this band are virtuosos on their chosen instruments; they just make a cool racket together and it seems a bit ... odd to me to be harping on how one of their two songwriters is weak because he can't play guitar better.

Don't want to turn anything in to a Keith vs. Mick debate, and didn't intend to harp on Mick ...was only giving an opinion as to why I think Mick's songs might be affected by his basic guitar playing skills.
As someone who doesn't have a great appreciation for a lot of Mick solo material, I'm just trying to pin down some of the reasons why they don't work... for me. Could be bad production...could be the way he writes outside of the Stones...could be due to his skills as a guitar player and trying to write songs on the guitar...could be all of the above. But without veering too far off topic here, I think Getta Grip is possibly one of the best- if not the best - solo efforts he's ever released musically speaking. I like his vocals and the groove...and even the minimalistic rhythm guitar he plays. I would have really liked an instrumental version, or as I mentioned previously, a heavy vintage reggae dub style version. With all the remixes available, was hoping one would fall somewhere in that category.


"Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes".


Depends on your definition of "simplistic and rudimentary", but yes his genius lies in the way he employs those skills in the songs he writes...something I don't think Mick quite has a handle on.


Quote
MonkeyMan2000
Mick is a VERY good rhythm guitar player, as can be heard on Miss You these days (some of the recent IEM bootlegs have his guitar quite high up). He knows how to drive the song.

Mick seems most comfortable with the guitar when he's playing Miss You.
Not sure if I would call it VERY good, but to each his own.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-11 19:22 by Hairball.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:37

Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:39

Quote
Hairball
Don't want to turn anything in to a Keith vs. Mick debate, and didn't intend to harp on Mick ...was only giving an opinion as to why I think Mick's songs might be affected by his basic guitar playing skills.
As someone who doesn't have a great appreciation for a lot of Mick solo material, I'm just trying to pin down some of the reasons why they don't work... for me. Could be bad production...could be the way he writes outside of the Stones...could be due to his skills as a guitar player and trying to write songs on the guitar...could be all of the above. But without veering too far off topic here, I think Getta Grip is possibly one of the best- if not the best - solo efforts he's ever released musically speaking. I like his vocals and the groove...and even the minimalistic rhythm guitar he plays. I would have really liked an instrumental version, or as I mentioned previously, a heavy vintage reggae dub style version. With all the remixes available, was hoping one would fall somewhere in that category.


"Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes".


Depends on your definition of "simplistic and rudimentary", but yes his genius lies in the way he employs those skills in the songs he writes...something I don't think Mick quite has a handle on.

I guess I was thrown by your repeated reference to "Brown Sugar" and "Sway" and thought therefore we were talking about the relative musical deficiency of Mick songs vs Keith songs within the Stones canon.

I've never heard the argument that Mick solo might suck because Mick is not a better guitar player and so continue to be a bit befuddled by that.

Also, in the spirit of accuracy, your citation above misquotes me. I did not say:

"Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes".

What I said was--and I said it because I've read it on this site before:

There are many people who think Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Date: August 11, 2017 19:42

Quote
Hairball
Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

Well, it took me 25 years to realise that Jagger played guitar on Sway, and not Keith. Jagger's acoustic on Moonlight mile is subtle, full of feeling and far away from any punk influence.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:46

Quote
Hairball
Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

You can hear his excellent sense of rhythm too, right? I would never compare him to rhythm gods like Keith, but you have to be quite good in order to play a great groove and sing at the same time, like he does on Miss You. I actually think Keith couldn't do that these days the way Mick does...

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:49

I have not had time to post more. Maybe will not get time in the nearest ensuing time either.

Now only this:
When I once presented a favourite Mick solo song, it appeared that it was seen as quite good by others, too, even from some , who were reserved to other songs in same context.

So I ask: May "Hard Woman" be a suitable song in your discussion of why Mick's lack of deep guitar skill possibly contributed to make that song marked with what you, Hairball, indicated by "an amateurish vibe with most of what he writes musically"? And what do you think about that candidate song,LongBeachArena72? Or will you prefer Stones songs and,among those, some songs that can be identified by not having received vital input from others?

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:50

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
Hairball
Don't want to turn anything in to a Keith vs. Mick debate, and didn't intend to harp on Mick ...was only giving an opinion as to why I think Mick's songs might be affected by his basic guitar playing skills.
As someone who doesn't have a great appreciation for a lot of Mick solo material, I'm just trying to pin down some of the reasons why they don't work... for me. Could be bad production...could be the way he writes outside of the Stones...could be due to his skills as a guitar player and trying to write songs on the guitar...could be all of the above. But without veering too far off topic here, I think Getta Grip is possibly one of the best- if not the best - solo efforts he's ever released musically speaking. I like his vocals and the groove...and even the minimalistic rhythm guitar he plays. I would have really liked an instrumental version, or as I mentioned previously, a heavy vintage reggae dub style version. With all the remixes available, was hoping one would fall somewhere in that category.


"Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes".


Depends on your definition of "simplistic and rudimentary", but yes his genius lies in the way he employs those skills in the songs he writes...something I don't think Mick quite has a handle on.

I guess I was thrown by your repeated reference to "Brown Sugar" and "Sway" and thought therefore we were talking about the relative musical deficiency of Mick songs vs Keith songs within the Stones canon.

I've never heard the argument that Mick solo might suck because Mick is not a better guitar player and so continue to be a bit befuddled by that.

Also, in the spirit of accuracy, your citation above misquotes me. I did not say:

"Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes".

What I said was--and I said it because I've read it on this site before:

There are many people who think Keith himself plays "simplistic rudimentary guitar" but that his genius lies in the way he employs those 'skills' in the songs he writes.


1. If it wasn't clear, I was praising both Brown Sugar and Sway as songs Mick has written, and evidently they were written on guitar.

2. It wasn't necessarily an argument as I'm not trying to win a debate, but more of a pondering as to why they might not work for me.

3. I wasn't necessarily using that as a quote attributed to you and understood your point regarding "there are some people who think...", but was just referencing a portion of what you had written.
But yeah, I should have included all of it in the spirit of accuracy.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:56

Another great one with Mick on slide: [www.youtube.com]

I guess we should just be grateful that these guys play in the same band. I can't understand how someone can be a fan of a band and at the same time completely disregard the abilities the front man has ("find him some maracas"). How can you hate a great musician that plays in your favorite band so much?

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 19:56

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
Hairball
Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

Well, it took me 25 years to realise that Jagger played guitar on Sway, and not Keith. Jagger's acoustic on Moonlight mile is subtle, full of feeling and far away from any punk influence.

True.

I prefer his rip-it-up thrashing style on Some Girls though.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 20:03

Quote
MonkeyMan2000
Another great one with Mick on slide: [www.youtube.com]

I guess we should just be grateful that these guys play in the same band. I can't understand how someone can be a fan of a band and at the same time completely disregard the abilities the front man has ("find him some maracas"). How can you hate a great musician that plays in your favorite band so much?

I can't speak for the person who wrote the "maracas" comment, but I honestly don't think anyone hates or "completely disregard the abilities the front man has".
We're talking about guitar playing, not his overall skills as a front man/singer/lyricist. If someone doesn't think his guitar playing is great (like myself),
it shouldn't be misinterpreted or mislabeled as a complete dismissal of his place within the Stones.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 20:12

I am not talking about you, Hairball, I enjoy his playing, if somebody thinks it's only basics that's no problem. But I think a certain poster here tries to put down Mick with every opportunity he has, his posts regarding Mick almost always have a very dismissive undertone. That's why I'm talking about loving a band but disregarding the abilities of the front man.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 20:17

Quote
Witness
I have not had time to post more. Maybe will not get time in the nearest ensuing time either.

Now only this:
When I once presented a favourite Mick solo song, it appeared that it was seen as quite good by others, too, even from some , who were reserved to other songs in same context.

So I ask: May "Hard Woman" be a suitable song in your discussion of why Mick's lack of deep guitar skill possibly contributed to make that song marked with what you, Hairball, indicated by "an amateurish vibe with most of what he writes musically"? And what do you think about that candidate song,LongBeachArena72? Or will you prefer Stones songs and,among those, some songs that can be identified by not having received vital input from others?

Hey, Witness. I'm not sure I understand your question entirely but will give you some thoughts. I don't really like "Hard Woman," mainly because it is what I regard as a prime example of Mick singing in a super-affected artificial way. I don't think this has anything to do with it being a solo song; it would have been just as bad as a Stones song, in my opinion! (For the record, though, She's the Boss is my favorite Mick solo record; there are 4 or 5 tracks I really dig on that one.)

Also, just wanted to say, on a more personal note: I've admired your attempt to stick to your guns about liking the new Mick songs in this thread ... sometimes you have to go up against some pretty stiff opposition and I know from personal experience that that can get tiring ... so good on ya, Witness!

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: LongBeachArena72 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 20:24

Quote
Hairball
1. If it wasn't clear, I was praising both Brown Sugar and Sway as songs Mick has written, and evidently they were written on guitar.

2. It wasn't necessarily an argument as I'm not trying to win a debate, but more of a pondering as to why they might not work for me.

3. I wasn't necessarily using that as a quote attributed to you and understood your point regarding "there are some people who think...", but was just referencing a portion of what you had written.
But yeah, I should have included all of it in the spirit of accuracy.

Fair enough, HB. Part of the reason I'm going back and forth with you on this is because it's a new avenue for me. I've not heard expertise on a particular musical instrument tied to success in songwriting before, and so wanted to explore it further. There are plenty of songwriters with no special instrumental expertise who wrote lovely music.

Also, I wonder if Mick 'writes' music more or less exclusively on guitar? Does he write on piano or a portable keyboard as well? If so, would his ability (or lack thereof) on keys inform the quality of his songwriting, in your opinion?

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Date: August 11, 2017 20:30

Mick writes on piano as well. So does Keith.

I'm guessing that Mick wrote Hard Woman on piano, Witness. Lovely tune, imo.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 11, 2017 20:45

Quote
LongBeachArena72
Quote
Hairball
1. If it wasn't clear, I was praising both Brown Sugar and Sway as songs Mick has written, and evidently they were written on guitar.

2. It wasn't necessarily an argument as I'm not trying to win a debate, but more of a pondering as to why they might not work for me.

3. I wasn't necessarily using that as a quote attributed to you and understood your point regarding "there are some people who think...", but was just referencing a portion of what you had written.
But yeah, I should have included all of it in the spirit of accuracy.

Fair enough, HB. Part of the reason I'm going back and forth with you on this is because it's a new avenue for me. I've not heard expertise on a particular musical instrument tied to success in songwriting before, and so wanted to explore it further. There are plenty of songwriters with no special instrumental expertise who wrote lovely music.

Also, I wonder if Mick 'writes' music more or less exclusively on guitar? Does he write on piano or a portable keyboard as well? If so, would his ability (or lack thereof) on keys inform the quality of his songwriting, in your opinion?

Keeping this guitar themed, I've been trying to think of great singers in great rock bands who are first and foremost singers and/or lyricists (and might only dabble with the guitar), and if any of them write great songs as far as the musicality is concerned. I'm kind of stumped. You have Roger Daltery who writes nothing musically or lyrically as far as I know- not sure if he even plays guitar. Then there's Robert Plant who has some very basic guitar skills - he writes lyrics, but none of the music from Led Zeppelin. Ozzy Osbourne - great singer imo, not sure if he plays any guitar, but never wrote any music or any lyrics in Black Sabbath as far as I know. Not trying to prove a point as I'm truly stumped in naming any lead singer of a rock band who writes many great songs based on minimal guitar skills.

As for Mick, I think he's written on piano and/or keyboards...Worried about You comes to mind - a great song no doubt even though he might not be a virtuoso on the instrument. Similar to the great Brown Sugar and Sway he wrote on guitar, it doesn't take an expert musician to write a great song, but I think it helps to have some skills to be able to be consistent.

________________________________________

edit: Unsure of the credits and who did exactly what within the bands, but Paul Rogers of Free and Bad Company comes to mind. Not known for his guitar playing (he's first and foremost frontman/singer), yet no doubt he has written dozens of great songs musically and lyrically....maybe on both guitar and piano....again though, unsure of who did what as far as credits within those bands.

.
.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-11 20:59 by Hairball.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 11, 2017 22:26

Lennon and McCartney wrote songs by singing them first. Keith wrote that in his book -- said that was one difference between the Stones and the Beatles.
Now McCartney is a great musician and Lennon probably just so-so technically, but each of them could use their voices to come up with melodies and then the music (chords, etc,) just naturally followed.
I can think of many so-so guitarists who were great songwriters -- Dylan, Ray Davies.
I'm not sure exactly how Mick writes his songs, but have the impression he plays around on keyboards and sings over the top of that. I don't think he is a natural musician, but he's definitely a good songwriter and has worked very hard at his craft over the years.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: August 11, 2017 22:37

Quote
MonkeyMan2000
Another great one with Mick on slide: [www.youtube.com]

I guess we should just be grateful that these guys play in the same band. I can't understand how someone can be a fan of a band and at the same time completely disregard the abilities the front man has ("find him some maracas"). How can you hate a great musician that plays in your favorite band so much?

Its called having a sense of humor, its not hate is it. How dare you accuse me of hating Mick. How dare Misterddd call me a troll.
I don't think we need Mick playing guitar in this band, the other three guitarists have it covered imho. Mick was a phenomenal showman and singer song writer, i just don't think he shines as a guitar player, always looks a bit amateurish to me.
Do we have a problem with my opinion again. I am not being offensive to anyone or calling anyone a troll. This is bullying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-11 22:39 by stone4ever.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: mr_dja ()
Date: August 11, 2017 22:46

Quote
Hairball

Keeping this guitar themed, I've been trying to think of great singers in great rock bands who are first and foremost singers and/or lyricists (and might only dabble with the guitar), and if any of them write great songs as far as the musicality is concerned. I'm kind of stumped. You have Roger Daltery who writes nothing musically or lyrically as far as I know- not sure if he even plays guitar. Then there's Robert Plant who has some very basic guitar skills - he writes lyrics, but none of the music from Led Zeppelin. Ozzy Osbourne - great singer imo, not sure if he plays any guitar, but never wrote any music or any lyrics in Black Sabbath as far as I know. Not trying to prove a point as I'm truly stumped in naming any lead singer of a rock band who writes many great songs based on minimal guitar skills.

As for Mick, I think he's written on piano and/or keyboards...Worried about You comes to mind - a great song no doubt even though he might not be a virtuoso on the instrument. Similar to the great Brown Sugar and Sway he wrote on guitar, it doesn't take an expert musician to write a great song, but I think it helps to have some skills to be able to be consistent.

________________________________________

edit: Unsure of the credits and who did exactly what within the bands, but Paul Rogers of Free and Bad Company comes to mind. Not known for his guitar playing (he's first and foremost frontman/singer), yet no doubt he has written dozens of great songs musically and lyrically....maybe on both guitar and piano....again though, unsure of who did what as far as credits within those bands.

Based on your criteria, I believe the name you would be looking for is: Freddie Mercury. I know he played above average piano but I've never heard him being referenced as playing much if any guitar.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: August 11, 2017 23:15

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
MonkeyMan2000
Another great one with Mick on slide: [www.youtube.com]

I guess we should just be grateful that these guys play in the same band. I can't understand how someone can be a fan of a band and at the same time completely disregard the abilities the front man has ("find him some maracas"). How can you hate a great musician that plays in your favorite band so much?

Its called having a sense of humor, its not hate is it. How dare you accuse me of hating Mick. How dare Misterddd call me a troll.
I don't think we need Mick playing guitar in this band, the other three guitarists have it covered imho. Mick was a phenomenal showman and singer song writer, i just don't think he shines as a guitar player, always looks a bit amateurish to me.
Do we have a problem with my opinion again. I am not being offensive to anyone or calling anyone a troll. This is bullying.

I'm sorry for not getting the humor (probably a language barrier thing, English is not my main language). I wouldn't call you a troll and I'm certainly not trying to bully you. But I have to admit the constant Mick bashing gets on my nerves and I'm certainly not the only one. But I guess that's just us having different opinions. Sorry.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 11, 2017 23:15

This thread should be renamed "Deconstructing Mick Jagger" by now... it has reached a degree of ridiculousness that could be simply regarded as pure comedy but on the other hand begs the question why certain people who claim that they simply don't like Mick's solo material in general spend a great deal of their time (precious lifetime, btw !) in a thread about a new solo single, not only endlessly repeating how much they dislike the single, but by now are "discussing" supposedly "amateurish" instrumental skills as a reason for "inconsistent" songwriting, some even calling Mick a "liability" or "burden" for the Stones or claiming to be able to write better lyrics/poetry than Mick. It must be some kind of a psychological thing...

Mick plays harp, guitar, piano & keyboards and what else, I've even seen him playing drums for fun and soundchecking for Charlie - sounded perfectly ok for me, and I'm a musician, too, so hopefully without sounding arrogant I think I'm able to judge this. Aside from the harp probably, he may not be in the world's top league of guitar and piano/keyboard players or drummers/percussionists, but that's not exactly his job in the Stones, right?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-11 23:21 by retired_dog.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: texas fan ()
Date: August 11, 2017 23:30

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
Hairball
Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

Well, it took me 25 years to realise that Jagger played guitar on Sway, and not Keith. Jagger's acoustic on Moonlight mile is subtle, full of feeling and far away from any punk influence.

Yes, Jagger is a fine guitar player, most of the time. The fact that it's "simple" or "rudimentary" is completely irrelevant, if the guitar sounds good in context, unless of course you're awarding points for technique which, again, is irrelevant (and often annoying) unless it serves the song.

Re: Mick Jagger "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost"
Posted by: RipThisBone ()
Date: August 11, 2017 23:45

Quote
texas fan
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
Hairball
Addendum to the above mention of Miss You:

In fact I think Micks best guitar playing is on some of the tunes from Some Girls...the back to the basics approach...influenced by a punk ethic if you will. He would have made a great punk rocker ripping up some simple and rudimentary rhythms...better than most well known punk rock guitarists imo.

Well, it took me 25 years to realise that Jagger played guitar on Sway, and not Keith. Jagger's acoustic on Moonlight mile is subtle, full of feeling and far away from any punk influence.

Yes, Jagger is a fine guitar player, most of the time. The fact that it's "simple" or "rudimentary" is completely irrelevant, if the guitar sounds good in context, unless of course you're awarding points for technique which, again, is irrelevant (and often annoying) unless it serves the song.

thumbs up

some simple and rudimentary rhythms.

It is incredible how much great songs MICK wrote with the help of his own limited guitar playing.
Well, Well..............MICK must be a HELL of a SONGWRITER lyricwise!

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