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Hairball

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retired_dog

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Hairball
Maybe someone who knows the business side of things can give an opinion on the rationale behind Universal's strategy of using Mick's tunes "to test the market".

As someone knowing the business side of things for decades I brought this question about the rationale behind Unversal's -supposed- strategy up. I can't see it. But maybe there are new strategies that have escaped my attention so far.

Could it be a situation that is unique to the Stones and what might be their last album? From 'hitting the wall' prior to Blue and Lonesome, to clashing over Getta Grip/England Lost, and also the fact they are in no rush to complete anything...maybe Universal is being somewhat of a mediator between Keith and Mick, and by testing the waters they hope to come up with some answers which would eventually result in a best case scenario for all involved. Don't know exactly how or why this strategy would work, just reflecting on the info. we have, hence me asking the questions.

That could very well be, indeed. I've got the feeling though that if there ever was a test, it was Blue And Lonesome. It was relatively quick and cheap to make, and in case it had sunk without a commercial trace it would not have been a major desaster for anyone involved. Even the band could have said: "What the f..., it was just a covers album, we did it for fun, for old time's sake! Everybody knew beforehand that blues albums don't sell in major quantities nowadays". On the positive side, the success of Blue & Lonesome is a clear indicator that there is still a market for new Rolling Stones recordings, a sales potential that goes well beyond any archive releases of live stuff.

Kind of enjoying these new tracks.
It's a shame those remixes aren't on the CD..

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Hairball
Wondering what Universal thinks after testing the waters and now seeing the results...could effect how much promotion they're willing to put in to a new Stones album.

That's the problem right there.

Ultimately, the only people who will be interested in purchasing a Rolling Stones album will be Rolling Stones fans. This shouldn't be a problem, because there are millions the world over. After 55 years, this should be obvious.

Sounds like MJ is out to please everyone except the fans who made him famous and who keep him famous.

The more I hear about this alleged new Stones album, the less I like. This may be the first new Stones album I won't purchase, let alone even bother to listen to.

It's time for MJ to finally grow up and stop fantasizing about mainstream pop stardom and just learn to appreciate the fans he already has.

Which brings to mind a question: If MJ stopped dyeing his hair and showed that he's in fact as gray as Keith and Charlie, would you still attend a Stones concert? Let's take a vote on that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-09 23:25 by stonehearted.

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stonehearted

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Hairball
Wondering what Universal thinks after testing the waters and now seeing the results...could effect how much promotion they're willing to put in to a new Stones album.

That's the problem right there.

Ultimately, the only people who will be interested in purchasing a Rolling Stones album will be Rolling Stones fans. This shouldn't be a problem, because there are millions the world over. After 55 years, this should be obvious.

Sounds like MJ is out to please everyone except the fans who made him famous and who keep him famous.

The more I hear about this alleged new Stones album, the less I like. This may be the first new Stones album I won't purchase, let alone even bother to listen to.

It's time for MJ to finally grow up and stop fantasizing about mainstream pop stardom and just learn to appreciate the fans he already has.

Which brings to mind a question: If MJ stopped dyeing his hair and showed that he's in fact as gray as Keith and Charlie, would you still attend a Stones concert? Let's take a vote on that.

There was an insider a while back who adamantly claimed Mick has hair transplants and has had for many years. So the poll should be...would you still attend a Stones concert if Mick went naturally bald?

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Wow.

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Hairball
There was an insider a while back who adamantly claimed Mick has hair transplants and has had for many years.

I believe it. His hair never changes from year to year, unlike his face. Same with Ronnie.

Gray or bald, doesn't matter to me... then again, I'm not a chick.

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stonehearted

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Hairball
There was an insider a while back who adamantly claimed Mick has hair transplants and has had for many years.

I believe it. His hair never changes from year to year, unlike his face. Same with Ronnie.

Gray or bald, doesn't matter to me... then again, I'm not a chick.

Yeah same here doesn't matter to me - he should have gone natural years ago imo. Charlie's always been a natural, and that's part of his classiness.
I think Jimmy Page started the trend to go from dyeing his hair jet black to natural grey, followed by Keith, and both look great. Ronnie would look really cool with silver hair!
Bill seems to have a brownish orange type tint these days...he'd look better with the natural look imo, but not sure if it's really his hair.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The physical single has sold 1,202 copies in the U.S. and debuted at #2 on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart.
It's the only chart where is listed, worldwide, so far.

Retailer Report: Top 100 Singles
Region: Total U.S. Week Ending: 08/03/17

Total Chain Indep MassM Non T
ESTELLE, REBECC|STEVEN UNIVERS( 1) 1733 0 0 0 1733 85242800786
JAGGER*MICK|GOTTA.../ENGLAND..( 2) 1202 120 319 0 763 60255781000
MY SILENT BRAVE|GOT IT GOING O( 3) 967 0 0 0 967 85972158652
TROUBLE|SNAKE EYES ( 4) 738 0 34 0 704 61689249684
DOORS|LIGHT MY FIRE ( 5) 523 5 374 0 145 08122793449

[www.billboard.com]

ROCKMAN

Nice to see the Doors are back in the top 5 and are again huge on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart.

Does this mean a revival of the "Jim is not dead" rumors?

Who knows, the Doors may sell more records in this century than in the century they were active.

There could be another Doors movie in the works.

When you're (Billboard) hot, you're Hot!

I believe that KR is holding out to have the group record basic tracks as a unit rather than overdubbing onto Mick’s demos. I don’t think he necessarily has objections to the material as such, but to the entire process. With Ronnie’s surgery and the Fall tour, it cleared the way for Mick to put out these tracks, without the imprimatur of the Stones, or crediting Don Was. Keith timed his album to jibe with the Stones’s schedule and Mick has done the same. Mick is lightly testing the waters with the reaction to these tracks, as he decides what the Stones album should be from his perspective. Universal will get on board with the decision. Consider how well they backed Crosseyed Heart.

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TeddyB1018
I believe that KR is holding out to have the group record basic tracks as a unit rather than overdubbing onto Mick’s demos. I don’t think he necessarily has objections to the material as such, but to the entire process. With Ronnie’s surgery and the Fall tour, it cleared the way for Mick to put out these tracks, without the imprimatur of the Stones, or crediting Don Was. Keith timed his album to jibe with the Stones’s schedule and Mick has done the same. Mick is lightly testing the waters with the reaction to these tracks, as he decides what the Stones album should be from his perspective. Universal will get on board with the decision. Consider how well they backed Crosseyed Heart.

This all makes sense imo. But it also means that the album ist still in its early stages, and far from being "nearly finished" as some have suggested here.

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stonehearted
Nice to see the Doors are back in the top 5 and are again huge on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart.

Does this mean a revival of the "Jim is not dead" rumors?

Who knows, the Doors may sell more records in this century than in the century they were active.

There could be another Doors movie in the works.

When you're (Billboard) hot, you're Hot!

That's incredible...wonder what has re-sparked the fire?
I know there's another big singles compilation coming out soon, maybe there's a lead off single for it available now?

......

As for Mick..."1,202 copies in the U.S. and debuted at #2 on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart"...are congratulations in order? Or is it a shallow victory?
I recall when Roger Waters new album went to number 1, someone mentioned it was meaningless in today's music buying climate.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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stonehearted
Nice to see the Doors are back in the top 5 and are again huge on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart.

Does this mean a revival of the "Jim is not dead" rumors?

Who knows, the Doors may sell more records in this century than in the century they were active.

There could be another Doors movie in the works.

When you're (Billboard) hot, you're Hot!

That's incredible...wonder what has re-sparked the fire?
I know there's another big singles compilation coming out soon, maybe there's a lead off single for it available now?

......

As for Mick..."1,202 copies in the U.S. and debuted at #2 on Billboard's Hot Singles Sales chart"...are congratulations in order? Or is it a shallow victory?
I recall when Roger Waters new album went to number 1, someone mentioned it was meaningless in today's music buying climate.

It would be interesting to know how many copies "Plundered My Soul" and "No Sparts" sold in comparison as both were promoted as new Stones singles back in the day.

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retired_dog
It would be interesting to know how many copies "Plundered My Soul" and "No Sparts" sold in comparison as both were promoted as new Stones singles back in the day.

Not sure, but I bought five of the Plundered 7"singles on Record Store Day....numbered and supposedly limited, but they're still readily available at less than what I paid which was apprx. $9.00.

> Plundered vinyl single for $7.50

In hindsight it's not really a great tune, but the thought of a "new" Exile tune after nearly 40 years was intriguing.
I still have two of copies (or maybe three?), and gave a couple away.
georgelicks has the info. regarding sales.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

i got soaked.

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stonehearted

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Hairball
Wondering what Universal thinks after testing the waters and now seeing the results...could effect how much promotion they're willing to put in to a new Stones album.

That's the problem right there.

Ultimately, the only people who will be interested in purchasing a Rolling Stones album will be Rolling Stones fans. This shouldn't be a problem, because there are millions the world over. After 55 years, this should be obvious.

Sounds like MJ is out to please everyone except the fans who made him famous and who keep him famous.

The more I hear about this alleged new Stones album, the less I like. This may be the first new Stones album I won't purchase, let alone even bother to listen to.

It's time for MJ to finally grow up and stop fantasizing about mainstream pop stardom and just learn to appreciate the fans he already has.

Which brings to mind a question: If MJ stopped dyeing his hair and showed that he's in fact as gray as Keith and Charlie, would you still attend a Stones concert? Let's take a vote on that.

Maybe Mick wants to make music that he can stand for as a creative musician also he on his part and not, as it is claimed, try to please everyone else than Rolling Stones fans. Well, with these two songs, Mick is at least pleasing me, as a fan from the 1960s and onwards. Also I notice in this thread some other IORRians, who speak about the songs in praising tones. So I am not the only one. Also we ought to count when it is claimed that Rolling Stones fans more og less unanimously reject Mick Jagger's songs.

I for one and then quite possibly not only one much prefer Mick's wishes for an album. Keith's wishes realized most probably would lead to an even greyer VOODOO LOUNGE VOL 2. In that case a "Mick Jagger album" in the direction indicated by the two "Mick Jagger songs" will be a much more attractive alternative to me. By the way, if sales figures may have been low for the two songs, one contributing factor could have been that many of the buyers of Rolling Stones related music may prefer albums to singles these days.

My guess is that if you give the buyers exactly the music that they ask for, they will be pleased at once. But the favourable first impression vanishes. To deliver Rolling Stones music with more lasting power, it must have some challenging content. But such an effect presupposes a willingness with the buyers to be challenged. Myself I want to be challenged that way as in former years. That is the problem for me with Keith in his senior years. There for me a substantial Mick input is needed.

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Natlanta
i got soaked.

Didn't want to come anyway.

Plundered, unfortunately, was only too correct, imfo.

Keith obviously doesn’t want Mick to stink up the new album with songs like ‘Gotta Get A Grip ‘ but that’s surely what Mick intends to do. I think those of us who pine for one more quality Stones record have to ask ourselves a question that only weeks ago would’ve seemed blasphemous: have we reached the point where Mick Jagger is a liability? Unhappily, I think the answer is yes.

I really think it’s time for Keith and Ronnie to place an ad for a new singer – maybe they could snag Leo Sayer or Julian Lennon – since their current front man fancies himself a rapper cum movie producer. At the very least, Mick should not be allowed to write lyrics for the new album. Instead his contributions should be limited to playing the harp and back-up vocals (because in those areas he shines). But since Mick can’t simply be demoted he’d have to quit the band first, which seems inevitable at some point anyway, and play on the record as a guest musician. That would definitely be the best way to use the current Mick Jagger, sad to say.

In order to try to live up to a minimum of decency, the way I consider it, I cannot myself comment on the post preceding mine. I acknowledge that others may judge this differently than I do.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-10 10:50 by DandelionPowderman.

I notice a few more varied opinions coming through on this thread in the last few days. I was beginning to wonder if it was just me that thought this solo experiment was a bad idea this late in the day for Mick. Sure if it was a big hit we would all be going yay man Mick is a genius, Micks is the man. But this flop to my mind only adds to the speculation that he has writers block. If this is the best of the 40 demo's we have a problem Houston. Our dominant songwriter in the last 30 years has lost his mojo. He doesn't want to collaborate with Keith the only man that can help him, and he seems to not wish to make the music that made him famous. If Mick has been writing for 11 years and this is the best he can come up with he really needs to get back in that studio with Keith and make it work if he can, if he still has the capability and enthusiasm to collaborate with Keith. I warned that Crosseyed Heart would be a tough blow to Micks ego. Its hard to stand toe to toe with Keith when he feels intimidated. The world is watching and the Stones fans around the world are expecting something really good from their last ever album together.

Mick has a last chance to redeem himself though.
Does anyone know if Mick intends to play GGAG live or on a TV studio situation like Fallon or anything. It would be interesting to see how he would approach this song live. Just bearing in mind that most Stones songs come to life live. This could be a game changer for Mick, sales would go from 2000 to 200,000 overnight if he went prime time on a major network and moves like Jagger in front of millions of viewers. Could Mick's absence be a sign that he is distancing himself from his own project, its like he put his toe in the water and thought, ouch, too cold i'm outta here. Your thoughts anyone ?

I don't think he has writer's block – rather that he wanted to try something new.

Mick can write decent standard rock/pop-songs in his sleep. But this time he wanted to do something else.

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DandelionPowderman
I don't think he has writer's block – rather that he wanted to try something new.

Mick can write decent standard rock/pop-songs in his sleep. But this time he wanted to do something else.

But where is the evidence. 11 years is a long time. Its not like he has all the time in the world to put all his prolific songwriting from the last 11 out there. People keep saying how prolific he is. REALLY.

Also many have pointed out that this is not anything new, its like Rain Fell Down ect. People can't have it both ways, its typical of Mick or it isn't.
Its great songwriting or its not. We have opinions on here, but out there people aren't buying it, we can receive their opinion of it loud and clear. Rapers don't buy it , Stones fans don't buy it, what was the point of this. It took him 11 years to do this, its not like he has come up with this huge body of work in the last decade and this was just one of those spur of the moment things. This is it, this is the best he can come up with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-10 12:45 by stone4ever.

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stone4ever

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DandelionPowderman
I don't think he has writer's block – rather that he wanted to try something new.

Mick can write decent standard rock/pop-songs in his sleep. But this time he wanted to do something else.

But where is the evidence. 11 years is a long time. Its not like he has all the time in the world to put all his prolific songwriting from the last 11 out there. People keep saying how prolific he is. REALLY.

Also many have pointed out that this is not anything new, its like Rain Fell Down ect. People can't have it both ways, its typical of Mick or it isn't.
Its great songwriting or its not. We have opinions on here, but out there people aren't buying it, we can receive their opinion of it loud and clear. Rapers don't buy it , Stones fans don't buy it, what was the point of this. It took him 11 years to do this, its not like he has come up with this huge body of work in the last decade and this was just one of those spur of the moment things. This is it, this is the best he can come up with.

What's new, Riffie, is the shape of the songs, and how to take 'em in. They can be perceived merely as dance music or grooves OR as a backdrop for the words (Similar to how we listen to the old one chord-blues numbers or some Dylan songs).

It's the lyrics that's the main point of these songs, the way I hear them.

And the lyrics are good.

Yes better lyrics than for some time but very insincere lyrics. Mick has covered himself from any backlash to these lyrics by making sure they are understood to be observational as opposed to him having any passion or commitment to them. Funny thing is i didn't notice that until the song accompanied them. They are childlike at times

I went to find England, it wasn't there
I went to find England, it wasn't there
I think I lost it in the back of my chair
I think I'm losing my imagination
I'm tired of talking about immigration
You can't get in and you can't get out
I guess that's what we're all about

This is the sort of thing i would be embarrassed to come up with.
I have wrote lyrics and poems all my life and i would never let anyone see this if i had wrote it.

Another thing to note about these lyrics that is interesting to me personally, before this single came out i commented that if Mick or keith went into a London suburb today they wouldn't recognize where they were.
This is reflected in these lyrics, he just might be being sincere after all but he manages to cover himself in a clever way.
We will never know if this is Micks personal view on immigration or not. Is he fed up with people moaning about immigration ( unlikely as he doesn't live here long enough to pay UK taxes.) or is he in fact complaining about immigration, or is he just thinking of a word that rhymes with imagination.
This is infantile and limited as a lyricist imho, this isn't going to win him a noble prize.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-10 14:20 by stone4ever.

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stone4ever
Yes better lyrics than for some time but very insincere lyrics. Mick has covered himself from any backlash to these lyrics by making sure they are understood to be observational as opposed to him having any passion or commitment to them. Funny thing is i didn't notice that until the song accompanied them. They are childlike at times

I went to find England, it wasn't there
I went to find England, it wasn't there
I think I lost it in the back of my chair
I think I'm losing my imagination
I'm tired of talking about immigration
You can't get in and you can't get out
I guess that's what we're all about

This is the sort of thing i would be embarrassed to come up with.
I have wrote lyrics and poems all my life and i would never let anyone see this if i had wrote it.

«England's not the same anymore
It's my fault
I can't run away from the mess I've contributed to»

That's how I read that part. There is some mockery/self irony/light-heartedness there, too, but why is it so bad, Riffie?

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stone4ever
Yes better lyrics than for some time but very insincere lyrics. Mick has covered himself from any backlash to these lyrics by making sure they are understood to be observational as opposed to him having any passion or commitment to them. Funny thing is i didn't notice that until the song accompanied them. They are childlike at times

I went to find England, it wasn't there
I went to find England, it wasn't there
I think I lost it in the back of my chair
I think I'm losing my imagination
I'm tired of talking about immigration
You can't get in and you can't get out
I guess that's what we're all about

This is the sort of thing i would be embarrassed to come up with.
I have wrote lyrics and poems all my life and i would never let anyone see this if i had wrote it.

Another thing to note about these lyrics that is interesting to me personally, before this single came out i commented that if Mick or keith went into a London suburb today they wouldn't recognize where they were.
This is reflected in these lyrics, he just might be being sincere after all but he manages to cover himself in a clever way.
We will never know if this is Micks personal view on immigration or not. Is he fed up with people moaning about immigration ( unlikely as he doesn't live here long enough to pay UK taxes.) or is he in fact complaining about immigration, or is he just thinking of a word that rhymes with imagination.
This is infantile and limited as a lyricist imho, this isn't going to win him a noble prize.

That's (partly) because it's rhythmic rhyming, imo -
a whole different ball game, compared to (and btw: why should we...?...) writing poems.
If it's to be compared to anything, it should be compared to any other rap lyric, basically.


And apart from that: 100% agreed with your additional remarks, Dandy.

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Rockman

It took me over 39.000 posts to get there, LOL!