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Doxa
But I am afraid that Jagger a long time ago noticed that that dwell is dried out, and he doesn't seem to have Keef-like deep interest in 'authenticity' for its own sake. He seems to need some 'extra-element' to make him click - be it some other colloborator, some new musical element, something 'novel' to excite his creative powers. He seems to need inspiration from somewhere else. If he would 'loyally' remain within the 'safe and sure' Rolling Stones boundaries - the ones made during their golden period - that most likely would bore him to death. Well, if not him, at least me - if I look the stuff the Stones have been doing mostly in their recent albums...
- Doxa, drunk
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TeddyB1018
Mick really seems to have an issue managing to put music himself to his words. Instead he crafts a "track," which he has become decently adept at. This method does not mesh with writing alongside someone who creates tunes, or hears music first. Thus the dilemma.
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TeddyB1018
Mick really seems to have an issue managing to put music himself to his words. Instead he crafts a "track," which he has become decently adept at. This method does not mesh with writing alongside someone who creates tunes, or hears music first. Thus the dilemma.
Many of us are passionate about this band and, imagining what we could do as producer (if we weren't awestruck to be in their presence as they create and could respond with the same critical faculties as when we listen to their work or works-in-progress in the privacy of our own space) to diagnose what went wrong between Jagger and Richards. Many of us have theories. Some are based in solid reasoning. Some are parroting what we read or hear in interviews to show we are attuned to the band. What Teddy contributed above may be the most succinct summation of Mick's current strengths and weaknesses as a songwriter. The vowel movements are no longer regular and they were essential to the magic.
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Doxa
But I am afraid that Jagger a long time ago noticed that that dwell is dried out, and he doesn't seem to have Keef-like deep interest in 'authenticity' for its own sake. He seems to need some 'extra-element' to make him click - be it some other colloborator, some new musical element, something 'novel' to excite his creative powers. He seems to need inspiration from somewhere else. If he would 'loyally' remain within the 'safe and sure' Rolling Stones boundaries - the ones made during their golden period - that most likely would bore him to death. Well, if not him, at least me - if I look the stuff the Stones have been doing mostly in their recent albums...
- Doxa, drunk
As these are my thoughts exactly, and considering the suspicion that these two tracks may indeed be Stones rejects (at least the participation of Ronnie and Charlie is a strong hint) I fear that things do not look all too well for the new Stones album with a bored Jagger, quickly losing interest into new Stones recordings because he is not really up to another "safe", retro-sounding album. Could well be that the "hitting the wall"-incident was not about a particular song as reported, but more a sign of a major disagreement concerning the general direction of the album. I cannot imagine that any of the key protagonists would want another half-hearted affair to be released as the very last Stones album. In that respect, Blue And Lonesome could work very well as a safety net! I hope I'm wrong, though.
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Hairball
I wonder if Mick will go on the Jimmy Fallon show to perform Getta Grip and sit for an interview. Would be interesting to hear from the horses mouth the reasoning for going solo. Not just the promo stuff he's already talked about, but some more in depth details of who, how, what, where, and most importantly why. But probably not much substance would happen with a gushing Fallon type interview, so maybe a more serious show and interview such as 60 minutes or Charlie Rose, or even Matt Lauer (sp?).Or maybe he'll reappear on SNL to play both of the new tunes and be involved in a couple of goofy skits again. By the same token, would be interesting to hear Keith's thoughts on all of this...maybe he could give some insights as to why it happened, and give his opinion on the tunes themselves. Or best case scenario, though probably unrealistic, an interview with both of them together.
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TeddyB1018
I liked Hang Fire better. Similar lyrical sentiment. Mick really seems to have an issue managing to put music himself to his words. Instead he crafts a "track," which he has become decently adept at. This method does not mesh with writing alongside someone who creates tunes, or hears music first. Thus the dilemma.
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DandelionPowderman
I'm not sure about Mick writing these tunes in a spontaneous way a few weeks ago, when we now know that Charlie and Ronnie played on them...
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DandelionPowderman
I'm not sure about Mick writing these tunes in a spontaneous way a few weeks ago, when we now know that Charlie and Ronnie played on them...
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kowalski
Anyone else who has noticed the songs credits?
According to Qobuz : [www.qobuz.com]
1 Gotta Get A Grip 00:04:05
Stephen Marcussen, Mastering Engineer - MICK JAGGER, Composer, Author, Guitar, Co-Producer, Vocals, MainArtist - Copyright Control, MusicPublisher - Tom Elmhirst, Mixer - Robbie Nelson, Recording Engineer, Programming - Ronnie Wood, Electric Guitar - Matt Clifford, Composer, Author, Keyboards, Co-Producer, Recording Engineer, Programming - Charlie Watts, Drums - Promopub, MusicPublisher - Brandon Bost, Assistant Mixer - Pia Squillino, Participant, AssociatedPerformer
2 England Lost 00:03:53
Stephen Marcussen, Mastering Engineer - MICK JAGGER, Composer, Author, Guitar, Co-Producer, Vocals, MainArtist - Copyright Control, MusicPublisher - Tom Elmhirst, Mixer - Robbie Nelson, Recording Engineer, Programming - Ronnie Wood, Electric Guitar - Matt Clifford, Composer, Author, Keyboards, Co-Producer, Recording Engineer, Programming - Charlie Watts, Drums - Promopub, MusicPublisher - Brandon Bost, Assistant Mixer - Pia Squillino, Participant, AssociatedPerformer
A taste (test?) for what's coming for the Stones album?
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DandelionPowderman
I'm not sure about Mick writing these tunes in a spontaneous way a few weeks ago, when we now know that Charlie and Ronnie played on them...
How do we know for Charlie and Ronnie play on them??? I think, till one of the 3 will say so.
Jeroen
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Doxa
But I am afraid that Jagger a long time ago noticed that that dwell is dried out, and he doesn't seem to have Keef-like deep interest in 'authenticity' for its own sake. He seems to need some 'extra-element' to make him click - be it some other colloborator, some new musical element, something 'novel' to excite his creative powers. He seems to need inspiration from somewhere else. If he would 'loyally' remain within the 'safe and sure' Rolling Stones boundaries - the ones made during their golden period - that most likely would bore him to death. Well, if not him, at least me - if I look the stuff the Stones have been doing mostly in their recent albums...
- Doxa, drunk
As these are my thoughts exactly, and considering the suspicion that these two tracks may indeed be Stones rejects (at least the participation of Ronnie and Charlie is a strong hint) I fear that things do not look all too well for the new Stones album with a bored Jagger, quickly losing interest into new Stones recordings because he is not really up to another "safe", retro-sounding album. Could well be that the "hitting the wall"-incident was not about a particular song as reported, but more a sign of a major disagreement concerning the general direction of the album. I cannot imagine that any of the key protagonists would want another half-hearted affair to be released as the very last Stones album. In that respect, Blue And Lonesome could work very well as a safety net! I hope I'm wrong, though.
Ok so Mick agrees to go into the studio with keith to make one last Stones album.
What exactly do you think Mick would expect from that arrangement.
If making a Rolling Stones album bores Mick why go in the studio with Keith in the first place.
You and Doxa actually think that its right for Mick to be bored to death at the prospect of Mick making music from their golden period, because its a safe bet, the arrogance of that statement is outrageous.
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Doxa
But I am afraid that Jagger a long time ago noticed that that dwell is dried out, and he doesn't seem to have Keef-like deep interest in 'authenticity' for its own sake. He seems to need some 'extra-element' to make him click - be it some other colloborator, some new musical element, something 'novel' to excite his creative powers. He seems to need inspiration from somewhere else. If he would 'loyally' remain within the 'safe and sure' Rolling Stones boundaries - the ones made during their golden period - that most likely would bore him to death. Well, if not him, at least me - if I look the stuff the Stones have been doing mostly in their recent albums...
- Doxa, drunk
As these are my thoughts exactly, and considering the suspicion that these two tracks may indeed be Stones rejects (at least the participation of Ronnie and Charlie is a strong hint) I fear that things do not look all too well for the new Stones album with a bored Jagger, quickly losing interest into new Stones recordings because he is not really up to another "safe", retro-sounding album. Could well be that the "hitting the wall"-incident was not about a particular song as reported, but more a sign of a major disagreement concerning the general direction of the album. I cannot imagine that any of the key protagonists would want another half-hearted affair to be released as the very last Stones album. In that respect, Blue And Lonesome could work very well as a safety net! I hope I'm wrong, though.
Ok so Mick agrees to go into the studio with keith to make one last Stones album.
What exactly do you think Mick would expect from that arrangement.
If making a Rolling Stones album bores Mick why go in the studio with Keith in the first place.
You and Doxa actually think that its right for Mick to be bored to death at the prospect of Mick making music from their golden period, because its a safe bet, the arrogance of that statement is outrageous.
There is nothing arrogant there. Creativity just can't be forced. If the inspiration is not there, the results most likely would not turn out be most inspirational either. A rerlective mind would go, 'Been there, done that - and no way I could recreate the magic again, the results just turn out be more and more generic and dull'. This is not any plot against Keith Richards, but a question of Jagger's own muse. What makes him click. This is not 1968 or 1971 anymore when all of that was new and exciting for Jagger - when the creation of a 'Rolling Stones sound' was in a process (a happy outcome of the creative juices then running wild). Even if there is a will, there is huge - I guess even more likely - chance that when Jagger makes a song that, according to him, "suits for the Stones", that will sound a rather generic, 'Stones-by-numbers' tune (resembling something he and Keith did ages ago in the height of their creative powers and inspiration). WE have VOODOO LOUNGE, BRIDGES TO BABYLON and A BIGGER BANG full of songs that fell most likely under that category,
Remember, this is all speculation based on the evidence we have - of which is most important is their recorded output. What we know is that the Stones are making a new album. And I am sure quite many of "Jagger's 40 demos" do sound like a 'safe and sure' Rolling Stones.. So don't worry Riffie, you will get a nice follower to A BIGGER BANG. (Though, let me add that personally I am a bit worried if these two new Jagger tunes are too 'extreme' or 'odd' or, even worst, 'non-Stonesy', how 'safe bet' the album will turn out to be...)
- Doxa
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latebloomer
Been away for a week, I'm trying to get caught up here, but keep losing the plot line to the imaginative fan fiction, that, while riveting at times, is also confusing and makes my head hurt a little. From what I gather, Mick put out a few songs of his own, with the obvious blessing of the rest of the band, including Keith. The Stones still plan to release a new album next year which they all want to be as good as possible. Am I on the right track?
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latebloomer
Been away for a week, I'm trying to get caught up here, but keep losing the plot line to the imaginative fan fiction, that, while riveting at times, is also confusing and makes my head hurt a little. From what I gather, Mick put out a few songs of his own, with the obvious blessing of the rest of the band, including Keith. The Stones still plan to release a new album next year which they all want to be as good as possible. Am I on the right track?