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Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 15:25 by DandelionPowderman.
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. An excample: My ears tell me that Lover's Plea is just as vital and potent as All About You (which I love dearly).
IMO, there's nothing pale or weak about CH. On the contrary, the album has a warm sound, and the variety in the selection of songs really surprised me, as it indeed is more vast than on his last album, Main Offender.
It could perhaps have been stripped off a couple of songs (Irene and Just A Gift, perhaps), to become less ballad-heavy. Then again, those two numbers are the favourites of many posters here, so...
Voodoo Lounge Uncut
We got the «new album shakes»...
It's actually the rockers which are the worst/least good on CH, which is why I halfway agree with Witness. I like CH very much (if only he would have left out Blues In The Morning) but as a Stones album it would be - indeed - too ballad-heavy. That works for a Keith solo album, because of a certain vibe he gives, (not for the first time I like to compare him to Nick Cave and Tom Waits) but for a Stones album you don't want too many ballads. Mick Jagger does better on mid-tempo soul with a firm tongue in cheek like Beast Of Burden or excellent mid-tempo-ish rock songs. And those are not present on CH in any obvious way.
The big question: how many exciting mid-tempo-ish rock and catchy soul can one write in a lifetime? We'll soon know.
It would be quite hilarous that a bunch of old guys, of which two are total absolutists, and the two other just might take a glass of wine occasionally with dinner or pose in a interview with a glass of orange juice (and of which the other is a health freak), would act making music under influence... And none of them is a very good actor (sorry Mick).
Or could it be that for the sake of making good music all of them have now decided that since they have done their best works in the past drug-fueled, it is time to re-use that secret winning receipt of theirs...
"haha... finally got the boys back in the studio again.. that's the way we make records! Sorry my old lady!"
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 16:29 by Doxa.
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Yes, I do prefer those rockers to songs like Look What The Cat Dragged In, Too Tight, Gunface or Driving Too Fast etc. And I find Blues In The Morning far superior to that of Might As Well Get Juiced or even Mean Disposition (to find some comparable tracks among their latter-day releases).
I never said CH was TY, LIB or Exile-quality, like you're implying here, though
That said, I don't think Robbed Blind, the title track, Suspicious or Nothing On Me would have made those albums poorer, as a standalone Keith-track. Not at all.
It's a bit of a moot point, though, comparing a Keith-album with a Stones-album, as they're so different. I prefer Stones-songs (save for a song or two) to be sung by Mick. First and foremost because he is the voice of the Stones, but also because he's really good at doing that final shaping/arranging that improves the songs.
But I digress. I want BOTH the Glimmers's hearts poured into the new album, preferrably with a joint effort
Good point(-s), Dandeee. Agreed!
jeroen
Sorry to quote all these posts, but there are things in each of them I'd like to comment (or base my reflection).
First of all, I think "Lover's Plea" belongs to a family of Richards soulful ballads, but being much closer to "Make No Mistake" or "Hate It When You Leave Me" than to more nightclub jazzie "All About You". It is very hard for me to even think about Jagger doing any of them. Keith's songs are so personal, idiosyncratic to the feelings he expresses and so tightly connected to his own persona that I think it is almost impossible for Jagger to relate to them. This I think generally is a problem with Mick and Keith's colloboration in regard to Keith making songs "for Mick to sing" like he claims. That's why I also think that the natural home of that material is Keith's solo albums or one or two 'solo' cuts in a Stones album.
Secondly, like matxil I also felt when listening to CROSSEYED HEART that 'a-ha, now Keith has really turned into a whole-scale singer-songwriter by his own means, not any longer being that riffmaster of the Stones who is forced making solo albums because his proper band is not functioning, but who still in those reduced to prove and address the key elements he means to the Stones sound'. Yep, not too far from the scopes of Tom Waits and Nick Cave, not even that of Bob Dylan. As great that is from the point of view of Keith Richards and of his fans that's not probably too good evolution for the Stones and their fans. The more musically independent, autonomous and self-sufficient Keith is, the less he needs or cares about Jagger & The Stones. And less his songs are easier for Mick to sing.
Thirdly, I also agree with matxil that the material of CROSSEYED HEART is not over-all suitable for a Stones album. That sort of maturity Keith is able to do by his own just simply doesn't suit for - or translate to - Jagger and The Stones. One cannot simply reduce Jagger & The Stones into Cave or Waits or Richards. Different animals. I guess the reason why Keith picked up "One More Shot" for the Stones was that of thinking that it might most easily suit for the Stones. It was closest to the mid-tempo rocker Jagger traditionally is very good at (but unfortunately even then me thinks the results were not very convincing).
Lastly, there is a thread about an early version of "Love Is Strong", which Keith sings. I think comparing Keith's vocals to Mick's vocals is rather revealing here. One can hear how Keith is singing the song soulfully from all of his heart, meaning every word; how the love is strong indeed, and the woman really making him feel hard and weak. Had it not been Keith Richards, the result might sound even corny. But when Mick enters, the impression is altogether different. He transforms the 'pure' feelings into double-minded passion, none of of literate meanings of words is left, but just an eternal hunter looking for just another victim, him concentaring on the impression and knowing every nuance and effectiviness of his voice. The result is pure sex and Mick Jagger (and with that, The Rolling Stones). The example is a quarter century old, and since then I think the gap between those two guys and their 'feelings' they try express have just grown bigger. More difficult it has been turned for them to 'click' (to use the term Riffie and I used in that thread) Add there that Keith has a long time ago mastered his art of expressing himself. If anything CROSSEYED HEART was a manifestation of that.
- Doxa
Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 18:31 by Doxa.
Crosseyed Heart - such a mighty fine album on so many levels from start to finish, for me anyways.
The stars must have been perfectly aligned in my little world when the album came out as it truly became a part of my existence.
Hoping the new Stones album will provide the same level of satisfaction, and with a new tour happening in a few months, seems the stars might be aligning again in my little world.
219 pages and counting...14 years and counting...the time is near for a new Stones album.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Thanks. Yep, "Angie" belongs to the times when Mick and Keith still 'clicked' big time, and the result is almost transcendental... Keith offered an incredibly beautiful skeleton and Mick was totally home with it, inspiring him to finish it and record his most effective and unique vocal performance ever as far as ballad section goes. Their most perfect ballad ever me thinks. "Wild Horses" is another beauty stemming from Keith's inspired chord excercise and key phrase, Jagger sounding like being oddily serious and singing from his heart for at once. (But then again, both "Angie" and "Wild Horses" were kind of songs Jagger struggled with approach and technique when singing them live during the 70's. These days, after maturing up and vocal-coaching, it's been much easier for him I guess.)
But even from those days, it is very hard for me to imagine Mick doing justice for "You Got The Silver" and "Coming Down Again". Of the first we have the Jagger version for sure, but I think it simply pales in comparision to Keith's fragile but effective delivery. So those are early indications that Keith started to ramble in areas of feelings in which Mick wasn't so home with. "All About You", later, is totally out of his rank. In between we have "Memory Motel", a Mick ballad into which Keith added his 'middle eight' (or how to describe that part), which he, interestingly, sang (damn those two voices and parts clicked beautifully).
But then again, it would be interesting to hear Keith's initial version of "Beast of Burden", because the final song is so 'Jaggerized' as one could imagine. My guess is that Mick, once again, took a Richards skeleton/sketch and took it somewhere else, making it his own. That's 'clicking' in my book. Jagger/Richards at their best. Ten years later they did that with a rather, at least initially, similar song, "Almost Hear You Sigh", but this time Jagger used that as a template to show his latest tricks as a soulful singer. Still 'clicking'.
But has been there since "Almost Hear You Sigh", and before it, "Beast of Burden" any Richards soulful ballad, or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried? I am ignorant here. "Anyway You Look At It" (a nice guitar template, but a boring song, in which they don't click at all, Mick being totally lost)?
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 19:40 by Doxa.
Yeah, that counts despite being more like a jam than a song. A bit similar case is "Think I'm Going Mad" if that is based on Keith's initial idea (no knowledge).
Altogether, not many since the early 70's... a few songs per decade, and since the 90's almost next to nothing... A time for a new one, Mick and Keith?
- Doxa
I like the intro and the verses, but they (Mick?) should have made a real chorus for it, imo. A bit too predictable for my tastes.
But there is good stuff in both AS and Already Over Me. I like Any Way You Look At It even more, although it has the same "chorus problem" as AS.
Yes, at first my reaction also was that "Always Suffering" sounded too predictable, given its starting point. But very soon I was conquered by its subdued intensity.
Must be Mick through and through?
Sorry, I was a bit vague there. I meant 'or any kind of ballad (not just soulful one) Keith had written'. Mick has written quite many of those along the years, for The Stones or to some other projects, like "Laugh I Nearly Died" (which I think is one of the best).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 21:23 by Doxa.
I have always thought that "Always Suffering" is a typical latter-day (almost predictable) Jagger ballad, and to make sure I checked the always handy timeisonourside.com, and there we have it:
Mind you, I didn't write that song. Added some strings with Woody and Waddy, but didn't write it... I still haven't fully analyzed all (Mick's) lyrics - not that I often do. I don't know, maybe he IS always suffering! (laughs)
- Keith Richards, September 1997
For me generally to notice a difference between a Jagger and a Richards song´in regard to ballads (it might apply to some other type of songs as well, but that's another discussion) is to check its musical elements, and especially how the feel of the backing track, its instrumental basis, is related to the singing melody.
In Mick's songs the instrumental framework is very connected to the melody. The chords, played by guitar or piano, are pretty simple, traditional and obvious, just giving us the needed musical framework to go along the melody lines. Jagger sounds like composing the outcome in mind - the melody, the lyrics - just needing some suitable chords or minimal instrumental 'innovation' to get there. Mick is more like a traditional singer/song writer (a bit like Dylan, but who, unlike Jagger, starts with the lyrics and adds suitable music/melody to fit to those later)
Keith, by contrast, is more like an instrumental experimentalist - he tries different things, tries to find a suitable feel from the notes he is making, and the song is something to grow up from those premises. A melody and lyrics are something to add in the very last phase of the process - just something to go with the feel of the musical landscape laid by the instrumental base.
The difference, I think, is pretty easy to recognize: Mick's songs are structurally more conventional and predictable, they live or die, like Dylan's songs, with the melody and the lyrics, nothing instrumentally essential is included. Keith's songs, by contrast, are essentially linked to the instrumental base, be that of guitar or piano. And quite often they include some rather unconventional choices (Mick's almost never).
Just listen to "Always Suffering" or "Already Over Me" against "How Can I Stop" or "Thief In The Night" in BRIDGES TO BABYLON , or if we go further back, "Indian Girl" vs. "All About You" in EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 22:38 by Doxa.
Well, Keith used to make them like that, too...
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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 15:24
Quote
Witness
I quote my own reaction to Bungo's earlier post on page 107 of this threadQuote
WitnessQuote
Bungo
I'm sure no one will believe this but I'm gonna lay it out there anyway :
Last week I was sipping Tequila at the pool in Hotel California in Todos Santos Mexico when a chap sat down near me and with little else to do we started chatting. Long story short it turns out he is close to the recording process of the new Stones record (engineer or studio technician or something) and he goes in to saying how incredible the new songs are, "classic drug fueled Stones" I believe he described them, "right up there w8ith Sticky Fingers or Exile". He also mentioned something about Keith not letting Mick inject any of his silly "techno pop rubbish" onto what may very well be their last studio effort.
Anyway, make of it what you will,even though some good Mexican blow, weed and Tequila were present during the konversasjon.
I am one of possibly very few here, who will gladly receive broadly such an ingredient, which is allotted an epithet of that kind, given that it would be where Mick currently prefers to go, while I on the other hand want to be spared from as much as possible of that "C-E H" type of anemic feeeeling.
If the two of them, however, could meet in an EMOTIONAL RESCUE oriented "musical terrain", might be an ideal compromise between them.
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 15:25 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: November 14, 2018 15:35
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
I quote my own reaction to Bungo's earlier post on page 107 of this threadQuote
WitnessQuote
Bungo
I'm sure no one will believe this but I'm gonna lay it out there anyway :
Last week I was sipping Tequila at the pool in Hotel California in Todos Santos Mexico when a chap sat down near me and with little else to do we started chatting. Long story short it turns out he is close to the recording process of the new Stones record (engineer or studio technician or something) and he goes in to saying how incredible the new songs are, "classic drug fueled Stones" I believe he described them, "right up there w8ith Sticky Fingers or Exile". He also mentioned something about Keith not letting Mick inject any of his silly "techno pop rubbish" onto what may very well be their last studio effort.
Anyway, make of it what you will,even though some good Mexican blow, weed and Tequila were present during the konversasjon.
I am one of possibly very few here, who will gladly receive broadly such an ingredient, which is allotted an epithet of that kind, given that it would be where Mick currently prefers to go, while I on the other hand want to be spared from as much as possible of that "C-E H" type of anemic feeeeling.
If the two of them, however, could meet in an EMOTIONAL RESCUE oriented "musical terrain", might be an ideal compromise between them.
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 15:48
Quote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
I quote my own reaction to Bungo's earlier post on page 107 of this threadQuote
WitnessQuote
Bungo
I'm sure no one will believe this but I'm gonna lay it out there anyway :
Last week I was sipping Tequila at the pool in Hotel California in Todos Santos Mexico when a chap sat down near me and with little else to do we started chatting. Long story short it turns out he is close to the recording process of the new Stones record (engineer or studio technician or something) and he goes in to saying how incredible the new songs are, "classic drug fueled Stones" I believe he described them, "right up there w8ith Sticky Fingers or Exile". He also mentioned something about Keith not letting Mick inject any of his silly "techno pop rubbish" onto what may very well be their last studio effort.
Anyway, make of it what you will,even though some good Mexican blow, weed and Tequila were present during the konversasjon.
I am one of possibly very few here, who will gladly receive broadly such an ingredient, which is allotted an epithet of that kind, given that it would be where Mick currently prefers to go, while I on the other hand want to be spared from as much as possible of that "C-E H" type of anemic feeeeling.
If the two of them, however, could meet in an EMOTIONAL RESCUE oriented "musical terrain", might be an ideal compromise between them.
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. An excample: My ears tell me that Lover's Plea is just as vital and potent as All About You (which I love dearly).
IMO, there's nothing pale or weak about CH. On the contrary, the album has a warm sound, and the variety in the selection of songs really surprised me, as it indeed is more vast than on his last album, Main Offender.
It could perhaps have been stripped off a couple of songs (Irene and Just A Gift, perhaps), to become less ballad-heavy. Then again, those two numbers are the favourites of many posters here, so...
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
z
()
Date: November 14, 2018 15:54
Quote
bitusa2012
Why is it being advertised as "coming Friday" on Instagram? It's out isn't it?
Voodoo Lounge Uncut
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:01
Back to reviewing CROSSEYED HEART again? Do I need to repeat my verdict?
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:11
Quote
Doxa
Back to reviewing CROSSEYED HEART again? Do I need to repeat my verdict?
- Doxa
We got the «new album shakes»...
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:14
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowderman
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. An excample: My ears tell me that Lover's Plea is just as vital and potent as All About You (which I love dearly).
IMO, there's nothing pale or weak about CH. On the contrary, the album has a warm sound, and the variety in the selection of songs really surprised me, as it indeed is more vast than on his last album, Main Offender.
It could perhaps have been stripped off a couple of songs (Irene and Just A Gift, perhaps), to become less ballad-heavy. Then again, those two numbers are the favourites of many posters here, so...
It's actually the rockers which are the worst/least good on CH, which is why I halfway agree with Witness. I like CH very much (if only he would have left out Blues In The Morning) but as a Stones album it would be - indeed - too ballad-heavy. That works for a Keith solo album, because of a certain vibe he gives, (not for the first time I like to compare him to Nick Cave and Tom Waits) but for a Stones album you don't want too many ballads. Mick Jagger does better on mid-tempo soul with a firm tongue in cheek like Beast Of Burden or excellent mid-tempo-ish rock songs. And those are not present on CH in any obvious way.
The big question: how many exciting mid-tempo-ish rock and catchy soul can one write in a lifetime? We'll soon know.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:22
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
Bungo
I'm right here. Where are you.
FYI, my sources tell me the new record is essentially finished. They're just making a few tweaks and some over-dubs, backing vocals etc. Once the title and art-work is finalized it should be ready for release in a few months. .
Can you ask your sources if new songs are "classic drug fueled Stones"?!
It would be quite hilarous that a bunch of old guys, of which two are total absolutists, and the two other just might take a glass of wine occasionally with dinner or pose in a interview with a glass of orange juice (and of which the other is a health freak), would act making music under influence... And none of them is a very good actor (sorry Mick).
Or could it be that for the sake of making good music all of them have now decided that since they have done their best works in the past drug-fueled, it is time to re-use that secret winning receipt of theirs...
"haha... finally got the boys back in the studio again.. that's the way we make records! Sorry my old lady!"
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 16:29 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:27
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowderman
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. An excample: My ears tell me that Lover's Plea is just as vital and potent as All About You (which I love dearly).
IMO, there's nothing pale or weak about CH. On the contrary, the album has a warm sound, and the variety in the selection of songs really surprised me, as it indeed is more vast than on his last album, Main Offender.
It could perhaps have been stripped off a couple of songs (Irene and Just A Gift, perhaps), to become less ballad-heavy. Then again, those two numbers are the favourites of many posters here, so...
It's actually the rockers which are the worst/least good on CH, which is why I halfway agree with Witness. I like CH very much (if only he would have left out Blues In The Morning) but as a Stones album it would be - indeed - too ballad-heavy. That works for a Keith solo album, because of a certain vibe he gives, (not for the first time I like to compare him to Nick Cave and Tom Waits) but for a Stones album you don't want too many ballads. Mick Jagger does better on mid-tempo soul with a firm tongue in cheek like Beast Of Burden or excellent mid-tempo-ish rock songs. And those are not present on CH in any obvious way.
The big question: how many exciting mid-tempo-ish rock and catchy soul can one write in a lifetime? We'll soon know.
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 14, 2018 16:50
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:01
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Yes, I do prefer those rockers to songs like Look What The Cat Dragged In, Too Tight, Gunface or Driving Too Fast etc. And I find Blues In The Morning far superior to that of Might As Well Get Juiced or even Mean Disposition (to find some comparable tracks among their latter-day releases).
I never said CH was TY, LIB or Exile-quality, like you're implying here, though
That said, I don't think Robbed Blind, the title track, Suspicious or Nothing On Me would have made those albums poorer, as a standalone Keith-track. Not at all.It's a bit of a moot point, though, comparing a Keith-album with a Stones-album, as they're so different. I prefer Stones-songs (save for a song or two) to be sung by Mick. First and foremost because he is the voice of the Stones, but also because he's really good at doing that final shaping/arranging that improves the songs.
But I digress. I want BOTH the Glimmers's hearts poured into the new album, preferrably with a joint effort
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
RoughJusticeOnYa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:13
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Yes, I do prefer those rockers to songs like Look What The Cat Dragged In, Too Tight, Gunface or Driving Too Fast etc. And I find Blues In The Morning far superior to that of Might As Well Get Juiced or even Mean Disposition (to find some comparable tracks among their latter-day releases).
I never said CH was TY, LIB or Exile-quality, like you're implying here, though
It's a bit of a moot point, though, comparing a Keith-album with a Stones-album, as they're so different. I prefer Stones-songs (save for a song or two) to be sung by Mick. First and foremost because he is the voice of the Stones, but also because he's really good at doing that final shaping/arranging that improves the songs.
But I digress. I want BOTH the Glimmers's hearts poured into the new album, preferrably with a joint effort
Good point(-s), Dandeee. Agreed!
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:24
Crosseyed Heart
‘Substantial Damage’
(You’re killing me) per Keith
‘Nothin On Me’ (riffs reminiscent ‘Beast of Burden’ I never say that, and it’s part 2 ‘Before They Make Me Run’)
Need new tunes. Let’s hear Jagger pissed off and snarling chewing up nails.
I heard it on ‘Blue and Lonesome’
the vocals on this man
sounds the same as always never ages that voice
must be the Himalayan mountain retreat where he freezes in a crypt between gigs.
‘Substantial Damage’
(You’re killing me) per Keith
‘Nothin On Me’ (riffs reminiscent ‘Beast of Burden’ I never say that, and it’s part 2 ‘Before They Make Me Run’)
Need new tunes. Let’s hear Jagger pissed off and snarling chewing up nails.
I heard it on ‘Blue and Lonesome’
the vocals on this man
sounds the same as always never ages that voice
must be the Himalayan mountain retreat where he freezes in a crypt between gigs.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:28
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Yes, I do prefer those rockers to songs like Look What The Cat Dragged In, Too Tight, Gunface or Driving Too Fast etc. And I find Blues In The Morning far superior to that of Might As Well Get Juiced or even Mean Disposition (to find some comparable tracks among their latter-day releases).
I never said CH was TY, LIB or Exile-quality, like you're implying here, though
It's a bit of a moot point, though, comparing a Keith-album with a Stones-album, as they're so different. I prefer Stones-songs (save for a song or two) to be sung by Mick. First and foremost because he is the voice of the Stones, but also because he's really good at doing that final shaping/arranging that improves the songs.
But I digress. I want BOTH the Glimmers's hearts poured into the new album, preferrably with a joint effort
jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:34
And please
include wicked long harmonica segments
I could meet Mick @ Alcatraz if he needs ambience
Ha ha
love the man’s harp too
‘Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’ LICKS HARMONICA is sooooooo good maybe best xoxo
include wicked long harmonica segments
I could meet Mick @ Alcatraz if he needs ambience
Ha ha
love the man’s harp too
‘Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’ LICKS HARMONICA is sooooooo good maybe best xoxo
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 17:48
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowderman
Aren't tracks like Amnesia, Blues In The Morning, Love Overdue, Lover's Plea and Trouble tracks that easily would have made a good fit musically on ER?
From what I experience when I have listened to both albums in isolation, I think not. The keywords in the quote of my earlier post are "anemic feeeling", which is how I experience C-E H.
Well, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. An excample: My ears tell me that Lover's Plea is just as vital and potent as All About You (which I love dearly).
IMO, there's nothing pale or weak about CH. On the contrary, the album has a warm sound, and the variety in the selection of songs really surprised me, as it indeed is more vast than on his last album, Main Offender.
It could perhaps have been stripped off a couple of songs (Irene and Just A Gift, perhaps), to become less ballad-heavy. Then again, those two numbers are the favourites of many posters here, so...
It's actually the rockers which are the worst/least good on CH, which is why I halfway agree with Witness. I like CH very much (if only he would have left out Blues In The Morning) but as a Stones album it would be - indeed - too ballad-heavy. That works for a Keith solo album, because of a certain vibe he gives, (not for the first time I like to compare him to Nick Cave and Tom Waits) but for a Stones album you don't want too many ballads. Mick Jagger does better on mid-tempo soul with a firm tongue in cheek like Beast Of Burden or excellent mid-tempo-ish rock songs. And those are not present on CH in any obvious way.
The big question: how many exciting mid-tempo-ish rock and catchy soul can one write in a lifetime? We'll soon know.
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Sorry to quote all these posts, but there are things in each of them I'd like to comment (or base my reflection).
First of all, I think "Lover's Plea" belongs to a family of Richards soulful ballads, but being much closer to "Make No Mistake" or "Hate It When You Leave Me" than to more nightclub jazzie "All About You". It is very hard for me to even think about Jagger doing any of them. Keith's songs are so personal, idiosyncratic to the feelings he expresses and so tightly connected to his own persona that I think it is almost impossible for Jagger to relate to them. This I think generally is a problem with Mick and Keith's colloboration in regard to Keith making songs "for Mick to sing" like he claims. That's why I also think that the natural home of that material is Keith's solo albums or one or two 'solo' cuts in a Stones album.
Secondly, like matxil I also felt when listening to CROSSEYED HEART that 'a-ha, now Keith has really turned into a whole-scale singer-songwriter by his own means, not any longer being that riffmaster of the Stones who is forced making solo albums because his proper band is not functioning, but who still in those reduced to prove and address the key elements he means to the Stones sound'. Yep, not too far from the scopes of Tom Waits and Nick Cave, not even that of Bob Dylan. As great that is from the point of view of Keith Richards and of his fans that's not probably too good evolution for the Stones and their fans. The more musically independent, autonomous and self-sufficient Keith is, the less he needs or cares about Jagger & The Stones. And less his songs are easier for Mick to sing.
Thirdly, I also agree with matxil that the material of CROSSEYED HEART is not over-all suitable for a Stones album. That sort of maturity Keith is able to do by his own just simply doesn't suit for - or translate to - Jagger and The Stones. One cannot simply reduce Jagger & The Stones into Cave or Waits or Richards. Different animals. I guess the reason why Keith picked up "One More Shot" for the Stones was that of thinking that it might most easily suit for the Stones. It was closest to the mid-tempo rocker Jagger traditionally is very good at (but unfortunately even then me thinks the results were not very convincing).
Lastly, there is a thread about an early version of "Love Is Strong", which Keith sings. I think comparing Keith's vocals to Mick's vocals is rather revealing here. One can hear how Keith is singing the song soulfully from all of his heart, meaning every word; how the love is strong indeed, and the woman really making him feel hard and weak. Had it not been Keith Richards, the result might sound even corny. But when Mick enters, the impression is altogether different. He transforms the 'pure' feelings into double-minded passion, none of of literate meanings of words is left, but just an eternal hunter looking for just another victim, him concentaring on the impression and knowing every nuance and effectiviness of his voice. The result is pure sex and Mick Jagger (and with that, The Rolling Stones). The example is a quarter century old, and since then I think the gap between those two guys and their 'feelings' they try express have just grown bigger. More difficult it has been turned for them to 'click' (to use the term Riffie and I used in that thread) Add there that Keith has a long time ago mastered his art of expressing himself. If anything CROSSEYED HEART was a manifestation of that.
- Doxa
Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 18:31 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: November 14, 2018 18:19
thanx Doxa, good points and I do very second the insight about love is strong
about point one, one could argue quoting angie (which i believe is Keith's) but then, even so it was some 45 years ago.
me i love CH for many reasons and some are exactly about what you said of it
about point one, one could argue quoting angie (which i believe is Keith's) but then, even so it was some 45 years ago.
me i love CH for many reasons and some are exactly about what you said of it
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 14, 2018 19:22
Quote
corriecasQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Tracks like Nothing On Me, Heartstopper, Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Blues In The Morning (probably my favourite on the album, together with Suspicious and Robbed Blind), Trouble and Substantial Damage are more than good enough for me. And that's quite a good bunch of rockers.
Mick has very rarely written soul tunes as good as Lover's Plea, imo.
Well, I can't stand Blues In The Morning, so I won't comment on that one.
The other rockers you mentioned: you seriously think they are better than the sort of rockers we had on, let's say, ABB or Bridges to Babylon? That they are on the level of, let's say, Start Me Up, Midnight Rambler, Honky Tonk Women, Tumbing Dice? No, I don't believe that.
I agree that Lover's Plea is fantastic. And so are Illusion, Suspicious, A Gift, Robbed Blind and Goodnight Irene. But none of these (with the exception of maybe Robbed Blind) would sound as good with Jagger singing them.
Yes, I do prefer those rockers to songs like Look What The Cat Dragged In, Too Tight, Gunface or Driving Too Fast etc. And I find Blues In The Morning far superior to that of Might As Well Get Juiced or even Mean Disposition (to find some comparable tracks among their latter-day releases).
I never said CH was TY, LIB or Exile-quality, like you're implying here, though
It's a bit of a moot point, though, comparing a Keith-album with a Stones-album, as they're so different. I prefer Stones-songs (save for a song or two) to be sung by Mick. First and foremost because he is the voice of the Stones, but also because he's really good at doing that final shaping/arranging that improves the songs.
But I digress. I want BOTH the Glimmers's hearts poured into the new album, preferrably with a joint effort
jeroen
Crosseyed Heart - such a mighty fine album on so many levels from start to finish, for me anyways.
The stars must have been perfectly aligned in my little world when the album came out as it truly became a part of my existence.
Hoping the new Stones album will provide the same level of satisfaction, and with a new tour happening in a few months, seems the stars might be aligning again in my little world.
219 pages and counting...14 years and counting...the time is near for a new Stones album.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 19:27
Quote
maumau
thanx Doxa, good points and I do very second the insight about love is strong
about point one, one could argue quoting angie (which i believe is Keith's) but then, even so it was some 45 years ago.
me i love CH for many reasons and some are exactly about what you said of it
Thanks. Yep, "Angie" belongs to the times when Mick and Keith still 'clicked' big time, and the result is almost transcendental... Keith offered an incredibly beautiful skeleton and Mick was totally home with it, inspiring him to finish it and record his most effective and unique vocal performance ever as far as ballad section goes. Their most perfect ballad ever me thinks. "Wild Horses" is another beauty stemming from Keith's inspired chord excercise and key phrase, Jagger sounding like being oddily serious and singing from his heart for at once. (But then again, both "Angie" and "Wild Horses" were kind of songs Jagger struggled with approach and technique when singing them live during the 70's. These days, after maturing up and vocal-coaching, it's been much easier for him I guess.)
But even from those days, it is very hard for me to imagine Mick doing justice for "You Got The Silver" and "Coming Down Again". Of the first we have the Jagger version for sure, but I think it simply pales in comparision to Keith's fragile but effective delivery. So those are early indications that Keith started to ramble in areas of feelings in which Mick wasn't so home with. "All About You", later, is totally out of his rank. In between we have "Memory Motel", a Mick ballad into which Keith added his 'middle eight' (or how to describe that part), which he, interestingly, sang (damn those two voices and parts clicked beautifully).
But then again, it would be interesting to hear Keith's initial version of "Beast of Burden", because the final song is so 'Jaggerized' as one could imagine. My guess is that Mick, once again, took a Richards skeleton/sketch and took it somewhere else, making it his own. That's 'clicking' in my book. Jagger/Richards at their best. Ten years later they did that with a rather, at least initially, similar song, "Almost Hear You Sigh", but this time Jagger used that as a template to show his latest tricks as a soulful singer. Still 'clicking'.
But has been there since "Almost Hear You Sigh", and before it, "Beast of Burden" any Richards soulful ballad, or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried? I am ignorant here. "Anyway You Look At It" (a nice guitar template, but a boring song, in which they don't click at all, Mick being totally lost)?
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 19:40 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 19:43
Not a typical ballad, but Feel On Baby springs to mind, Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 19:59
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Not a typical ballad, but Feel On Baby springs to mind, Doxa.
Yeah, that counts despite being more like a jam than a song. A bit similar case is "Think I'm Going Mad" if that is based on Keith's initial idea (no knowledge).
Altogether, not many since the early 70's... a few songs per decade, and since the 90's almost next to nothing... A time for a new one, Mick and Keith?
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: November 14, 2018 20:46
I would have suggested one song that many despise, and, besides, I don't know who wrote it, "Always Suffering".
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 20:47 by Witness.
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 20:47 by Witness.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 20:52
Quote
Witness
I would have suggested one song that many despise, and, besides, I don't know who wrote it, "Always Suffering".
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
I like the intro and the verses, but they (Mick?) should have made a real chorus for it, imo. A bit too predictable for my tastes.
But there is good stuff in both AS and Already Over Me. I like Any Way You Look At It even more, although it has the same "chorus problem" as AS.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: November 14, 2018 20:53
Doxa wrote:
‘or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried?’
‘Laugh I Nearly Died’
2005
‘or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried?’
‘Laugh I Nearly Died’
2005
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: November 14, 2018 20:58
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
I would have suggested one song that many despise, and, besides, I don't know who wrote it, "Always Suffering".
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
I like the intro and the verses, but they (Mick?) should have made a real chorus for it, imo. A bit too predictable for my tastes.
But there is good stuff in both AS and Already Over Me. I like Any Way You Look At It even more, although it has the same "chorus problem" as AS.
Yes, at first my reaction also was that "Always Suffering" sounded too predictable, given its starting point. But very soon I was conquered by its subdued intensity.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 20:59
Quote
35love
Doxa wrote:
‘or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried?’
‘Laugh I Nearly Died’
2005
Must be Mick through and through?
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 14, 2018 21:04
Always Suffering...listening now to refresh memory...sort of like the weird older cousin of Streets of Love.
Micks singing is sort of off putting with the over-enunciating, etc., but I actually like the chorus even though it sounds like the Eagles or some other soft rock.
All in all I like it better than SOL, but will survive happily if I never hear either again.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Micks singing is sort of off putting with the over-enunciating, etc., but I actually like the chorus even though it sounds like the Eagles or some other soft rock.
All in all I like it better than SOL, but will survive happily if I never hear either again.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 21:21
Quote
35love
Doxa wrote:
‘or any kind of ballad, Jagger has recorded, or even tried?’
‘Laugh I Nearly Died’
2005
Sorry, I was a bit vague there. I meant 'or any kind of ballad (not just soulful one) Keith had written'. Mick has written quite many of those along the years, for The Stones or to some other projects, like "Laugh I Nearly Died" (which I think is one of the best).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 21:23 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 14, 2018 22:21
Quote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
I would have suggested one song that many despise, and, besides, I don't know who wrote it, "Always Suffering".
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
I like the intro and the verses, but they (Mick?) should have made a real chorus for it, imo. A bit too predictable for my tastes.
But there is good stuff in both AS and Already Over Me. I like Any Way You Look At It even more, although it has the same "chorus problem" as AS.
Yes, at first my reaction also was that "Always Suffering" sounded too predictable, given its starting point. But very soon I was conquered by its subdued intensity.
I have always thought that "Always Suffering" is a typical latter-day (almost predictable) Jagger ballad, and to make sure I checked the always handy timeisonourside.com, and there we have it:
Mind you, I didn't write that song. Added some strings with Woody and Waddy, but didn't write it... I still haven't fully analyzed all (Mick's) lyrics - not that I often do. I don't know, maybe he IS always suffering! (laughs)
- Keith Richards, September 1997
For me generally to notice a difference between a Jagger and a Richards song´in regard to ballads (it might apply to some other type of songs as well, but that's another discussion) is to check its musical elements, and especially how the feel of the backing track, its instrumental basis, is related to the singing melody.
In Mick's songs the instrumental framework is very connected to the melody. The chords, played by guitar or piano, are pretty simple, traditional and obvious, just giving us the needed musical framework to go along the melody lines. Jagger sounds like composing the outcome in mind - the melody, the lyrics - just needing some suitable chords or minimal instrumental 'innovation' to get there. Mick is more like a traditional singer/song writer (a bit like Dylan, but who, unlike Jagger, starts with the lyrics and adds suitable music/melody to fit to those later)
Keith, by contrast, is more like an instrumental experimentalist - he tries different things, tries to find a suitable feel from the notes he is making, and the song is something to grow up from those premises. A melody and lyrics are something to add in the very last phase of the process - just something to go with the feel of the musical landscape laid by the instrumental base.
The difference, I think, is pretty easy to recognize: Mick's songs are structurally more conventional and predictable, they live or die, like Dylan's songs, with the melody and the lyrics, nothing instrumentally essential is included. Keith's songs, by contrast, are essentially linked to the instrumental base, be that of guitar or piano. And quite often they include some rather unconventional choices (Mick's almost never).
Just listen to "Always Suffering" or "Already Over Me" against "How Can I Stop" or "Thief In The Night" in BRIDGES TO BABYLON , or if we go further back, "Indian Girl" vs. "All About You" in EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-14 22:38 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 14, 2018 22:43
Quote
DoxaQuote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
I would have suggested one song that many despise, and, besides, I don't know who wrote it, "Always Suffering".
Somewhat subdued, but thereby in accordance with a long time mood or feeling. With a more silent intensity of endurance.
I like the intro and the verses, but they (Mick?) should have made a real chorus for it, imo. A bit too predictable for my tastes.
But there is good stuff in both AS and Already Over Me. I like Any Way You Look At It even more, although it has the same "chorus problem" as AS.
Yes, at first my reaction also was that "Always Suffering" sounded too predictable, given its starting point. But very soon I was conquered by its subdued intensity.
I have always thought that "Always Suffering" is a typical latter-day (almost predictable) Jagger ballad, and to make sure I checked always handy timeisonourside.com, and here we have it:
Mind you, I didn't write that song. Added some strings with Woody and Waddy, but didn't write it... I still haven't fully analyzed all (Mick's) lyrics - not that I often do. I don't know, maybe he IS always suffering! (laughs)
- Keith Richards, September 1997
For me generally to notice a difference between a Jagger and a Richards song´in regard to ballads (it might apply to some other type of songs as well, but that's another discussion) is to check its musical elements, and especially how the feel of the backing track, its instrumental basis, is related to the singing melody.
In Mick's songs the instrumental framework is very connected to the melody. The chords, played by guitar or piano, are pretty simple, traditional and obvious, just giving us the needed musical framework to go along the melody lines. Jagger sounds like composing the outcome in mind - the melody, the lyrics - just needing some suitable chords or minimal instrumental 'innovation' to get there. Mick is more like a traditional singer/song writer (a bit like Dylan, but who, unlike Jagger, starts with the lyrics and adds suitable music/melody to fit to those later)
Keith, by contrast, is more like an instrumental experimentalist - he tries different things, tries to find a suitable feel from the notes he is making, and the song is something to grow up from those premises. A melody and lyrics are something to add in the very last phase of the process - just something to go with the feel of the musical landscape laid by the instrumental base.
The difference, I think, is pretty easy to recognize: Mick's songs are structurally more conventional and predictable, they live or die, like Dylan's songs, with the melody and the lyrics, nothing instrumentally essential is included. Keith's songs, by contrast, are essentially linked to the instrumental base, be that of guitar or piano. And quite often they include some rather unconventional choices (Mick's almost never).
Just listen to "Always Suffering" or "Already Over Me" against "How Can I Stop" or "Thief In The Night" in BRIDGES TO BABYLON , or if we go further back, "Indian Girl" vs. "All About You" in EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
- Doxa
Well, Keith used to make them like that, too...
[youtu.be]
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