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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: November 7, 2018 17:47

From The Sun, 11/6:

"The (2019) dates comes as Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have been slogging away in a New York studio working on an EP."

[www.thesun.co.uk]

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: November 7, 2018 18:06

EP

probably short for

Eternal Postponement

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 7, 2018 18:23

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Ridiculously overrated at the outset and then unfairly criticized once it is no longer new.

While I agree about the overrating at the outset, not sure what you mean by using the phrase "unfairly criticized".
Isn't it fair game to critique and criticize art/music regardless of one's opinion, and be able to change that opinion over a period of time?
What might have seemed promising at the beginning amidst the ecstasy of actually having something new, eventually doesn't really live up to the first impression?
Maybe you or someone else really liked it at the onset, and continued to like it at the same level, but others felt differently after digesting it all - are they being unfair?

In the opposite extreme, that would be like saying Exile was underrated in the beginning, but was then unfairly praised when it was no longer new. Unfairly?

Quote
bye bye johnny
From The Sun, 11/6:

"The (2019) dates comes as Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have been slogging away in a New York studio working on an EP."

[www.thesun.co.uk]

EP?

Hope that's a typo!!!

Coming up on 14 years with all the promises of a new album, and all they can deliver is an EP?
Say it ain't so!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 7, 2018 18:47

What I meant by unfairly criticized is when it is judged against their body of work instead of at a moment in time. How often are their latterday works thought of in the context of their age and the period they were made as opposed to compared unfavorably to The Big Four or SOME GIRLS? It's like your wife of fifty years criticizing you for not being the man you were when she first married you. Fans live in an eternal bubble where the Stones are timeless. I understand someone saying TALK IS CHEAP compares unfavorably to RATTLE AND HUM or PRIMITIVE COOL next to THE JOSHUA TREE. There's little point holding them up to SOME GIRLS or BEGGARS BANQUET. No one can turn back the clock. You can appreciate it for its place in their long career and still find fault, but do so from the standpoint of what they were realistically capable of achieving at age 50 or 62 or 75 and not that they failed to craft a song with the impact or creativity of JJF or "Brown Sugar."

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 7, 2018 18:49

The EP is an error. Who honestly thinks The Sun would have the scoop on anything. Perhaps Rupert Murdoch is displaying a newfound sense of humor where his wife's ex is concerned.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: corriecas ()
Date: November 7, 2018 18:58

Well.maybe they gonna release an EP just for the people on the Iorr forum.
Jeroen

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 7, 2018 19:01

I do understand what you're saying Rocky, but that's sort of giving them a handicap..."it's great considering how old they are"...or "they're way past their prime, but it's still great considering their old age"...is that being fair?
People compare old Monet to young Monet (for example), and usually don't say "well he was really old then, lets forgive him for not putting out the greatness he once did"...they either like it or not.
But the fact is, he really was putting out some genuinely great work in his latter years imo - no asterisk or handicap or comparisons to his younger self needed.

PS - And when Dylan or Neil Young put out a stinker these days, there's no forgiveness.
If it sucks it sucks!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 19:04 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: November 7, 2018 19:04

Quote
Rocky Dijon
What I meant by unfairly criticized is when it is judged against their body of work instead of at a moment in time. How often are their latterday works thought of in the context of their age and the period they were made as opposed to compared unfavorably to The Big Four or SOME GIRLS? It's like your wife of fifty years criticizing you for not being the man you were when she first married you. Fans live in an eternal bubble where the Stones are timeless. I understand someone saying TALK IS CHEAP compares unfavorably to RATTLE AND HUM or PRIMITIVE COOL next to THE JOSHUA TREE. There's little point holding them up to SOME GIRLS or BEGGARS BANQUET. No one can turn back the clock. You can appreciate it for its place in their long career and still find fault, but do so from the standpoint of what they were realistically capable of achieving at age 50 or 62 or 75 and not that they failed to craft a song with the impact or creativity of JJF or "Brown Sugar."

yes and no, once a piece of art is out, it is out, there, willing or not, with all the others at the same time and it is impossible not to compare. on the other hand I do think Talk is cheap has aged waaaay better than Rattle and Hum smileys with beer

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: November 7, 2018 19:23

Quote
bv
They have booked studio time. I do believe we will have some great stuff ahead for the next year.

This news makes New England's upcoming Winter feel a lot warmer......smileys with beer

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 7, 2018 19:57

Quote
Hairball
I do understand what you're saying Rocky, but that's sort of giving them a handicap..."it's great considering how old they are"...or "they're way past their prime, but it's still great considering their old age"...is that being fair?
People compare old Monet to young Monet (for example), and usually don't say "well he was really old then, lets forgive him for not putting out the greatness he once did"...they either like it or not.
But the fact is, he really was putting out some genuinely great work in his latter years imo - no asterisk or handicap or comparisons to his younger self needed.

PS - And when Dylan or Neil Young put out a stinker these days, there's no forgiveness.
If it sucks it sucks!

They're still playing a young man's game. Monet wasn't. Dylan and Neil Young aren't. Keith's point has been to change people's perception of the band and "grow the music up" as we've all heard.

Some complain that Keith's ballads are boring, but he's attempting to demonstrate they've evolved, they've moved on from pop songs and chasing trends. He wants to be seen as an elder statesman and be appreciated as a serious musician to an extent.

I picked U2 because, to a lesser degree, they're in the same boat. They've been around for decades, they're still very successful, their best work is far behind them, but they still wish to express themselves artistically. Where the comparison doesn't work is U2 didn't come up during the turbulent sixties, a decade of such amazing change and socio-political turmoil that the art that survives was seemingly forged in the flames of youthful discontent.

In the seventies, the Stones still did great work but it was worldweary or reflected their decadence or their refusal to grow old gracefully and conform. The spark of politics and the occult and genuine rebellion against the Establishment was gone once they became tax exiles living the jet set life. They've survived and endured as a business model certainly. They've exceeded most everyone's expectations of how long you can stay at the top of your game in one form or another.

That is why I suggest one can't reasonably compare SOME GIRLS to BEGGARS BANQUET because that decade of living makes a difference. Likewise, STEEL WHEELS couldn't be SOME GIRLS. You don't have to agree. You can continue to believe they should still produce songs as vital as "Street Fighting Man" with the same cultural impact. You'll be disppointed, of course.

Alternatively, one could argue that "Rough Justice" or "You Got Me Rocking" or "Start Me Up" still show a band that can fire on all cylinders and give one pleasure. I sometimes think it's not the Stones who don't measure up to expectations, it's that their audience doesn't. We grew old, except for our youthful passion for the band, and we can never recapture the elation of being young and hearing something magical as if for the first time. The exception is being in the stadium or arena when the band first hits the stage or the rose-tinted early perceptions of a long anticipated new release we're certain is their best work since our youthful standard of an artistic high water mark.

You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 19:58 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: November 7, 2018 20:09

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The EP is an error.

Might be a lagniappe before the full album. georgelicks mentioned an "early single release" recently.

[iorr.org]

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: November 7, 2018 20:47

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
Hairball
I do understand what you're saying Rocky, but that's sort of giving them a handicap..."it's great considering how old they are"...or "they're way past their prime, but it's still great considering their old age"...is that being fair?
People compare old Monet to young Monet (for example), and usually don't say "well he was really old then, lets forgive him for not putting out the greatness he once did"...they either like it or not.
But the fact is, he really was putting out some genuinely great work in his latter years imo - no asterisk or handicap or comparisons to his younger self needed.

PS - And when Dylan or Neil Young put out a stinker these days, there's no forgiveness.
If it sucks it sucks!

They're still playing a young man's game. Monet wasn't. Dylan and Neil Young aren't. Keith's point has been to change people's perception of the band and "grow the music up" as we've all heard.

Some complain that Keith's ballads are boring, but he's attempting to demonstrate they've evolved, they've moved on from pop songs and chasing trends. He wants to be seen as an elder statesman and be appreciated as a serious musician to an extent.

I picked U2 because, to a lesser degree, they're in the same boat. They've been around for decades, they're still very successful, their best work is far behind them, but they still wish to express themselves artistically. Where the comparison doesn't work is U2 didn't come up during the turbulent sixties, a decade of such amazing change and socio-political turmoil that the art that survives was seemingly forged in the flames of youthful discontent.

In the seventies, the Stones still did great work but it was worldweary or reflected their decadence or their refusal to grow old gracefully and conform. The spark of politics and the occult and genuine rebellion against the Establishment was gone once they became tax exiles living the jet set life. They've survived and endured as a business model certainly. They've exceeded most everyone's expectations of how long you can stay at the top of your game in one form or another.

That is why I suggest one can't reasonably compare SOME GIRLS to BEGGARS BANQUET because that decade of living makes a difference. Likewise, STEEL WHEELS couldn't be SOME GIRLS. You don't have to agree. You can continue to believe they should still produce songs as vital as "Street Fighting Man" with the same cultural impact. You'll be disppointed, of course.

Alternatively, one could argue that "Rough Justice" or "You Got Me Rocking" or "Start Me Up" still show a band that can fire on all cylinders and give one pleasure. I sometimes think it's not the Stones who don't measure up to expectations, it's that their audience doesn't. We grew old, except for our youthful passion for the band, and we can never recapture the elation of being young and hearing something magical as if for the first time. The exception is being in the stadium or arena when the band first hits the stage or the rose-tinted early perceptions of a long anticipated new release we're certain is their best work since our youthful standard of an artistic high water mark.

You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.

Rocky does it again! At this rate, I'll never need to post again. But seriously, my sentiments exactly. A piece of art can be evaluated at any moment in time by any artist at any age, but to exclude the context of such variables seems unjust. It seems equally unjust to criticize the pace of the output (i.e. 14 years vs. another more personally desirable length of time). It all factors in. That said, I would have loved more output, more tours, more, more, more.....of course I would have. I love them. They are my favorite band. But the reality is that they range from 71-77 in age. Good lord. It is entirely outstanding that we are talking about a new album and a new U.S. Tour. They could cancel all plans tomorrow and still remain a testament to strength, endurance and high quality musical expression. The highest really, warts and all.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: November 7, 2018 20:52

An EP like in the good old days ! At least there wouldn't (hopefully) be any filler material on there ;-)

I still hope we can get to hear Mick's "40 demos" one day, chances are that stuff is on par with the 2002 Paris Sessions that leaked last year. Pretty enjoyable and without any of the usual over production. The expectations for a new Stones album are just so high now, especially after 13+ years, can't be easy for them but at least it seems they're trying !

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 7, 2018 23:33

Quote
gotdablouse
An EP like in the good old days ! At least there wouldn't (hopefully) be any filler material on there ;-)

Agreed, why let's look at the last EP...

[www.discogs.com]

Seriously, I don't think The Sun knows something we don't. There isn't an EP. There's a new album with three singles dropping before the album.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 8, 2018 00:01

Quote
Rocky Dijon
You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.

Clearly those two aren't the same, and not the best analogy - equating creativity with physical boundaries?
People should be able to expect greatness from their favorite band, and if it doesn't happen, then they should be allowed to be disappointed - regardless of the historical context you mentioned.
But why on earth would anyone yell at an old man who physically isn't what he used to be? It would never happen, and shouldn't happen - the poor old guy doesn't have any choice.

Look at Crosseyed Heart. I loved it because it spoke to me - not because Keith is an old man and that's all he's got left to offer - that thought never crossed my mind. And for me personally, it was alot better than a majority of what the Stones have put out in the latter era, and there was some absolute greatness that compared with any era. Some people disliked it and/or thought it was boring...are they being unfair? Should they refrain from criticizing it, and instead say "well he's really old now, and if that's the best he can do, well that's good enough"?

There's still hope they can provide some absolute greatness, and for all we know maybe the new album will showcase some of that? But if it doesn't gel with me, is it really being unfair to say I don't like it?
If I consider the fact they're old men and this is the best they can do because that's just the way it is, but I'll like it anyways, would that be considered fair? I'd be dishonest with myself if I thought that way. These aren't old men in a wheelchair who used to run marathons, these are creative artists who are still functional.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 8, 2018 00:30

My friend, I can add nothing else. My analogy doesn't work for you even when I play upon your own word choice using a familiar, if anachronistic meaning. What I see all around me, you don't think happens at all. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong, of course. It just means we take a different view of the situation.

If it helps, you like CROSSEYED HEART better than I do. I was knocked out the first few weeks. Now I'd say it's about 50% good songs and the other half makes for a relaxing musical opiate.


[edited for the harshness of my words about CROSSEYED HEART. The above is more accurate for where I stand three years on.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-08 00:56 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 8, 2018 00:59

Cheers Rocky - no bad intentions on either of our parts - it's only rock'n'roll. thumbs up

And truth be told, I was being a bit of a devils advocate as I can appreciate most of what you were getting at, but not everyone has that same viewpoint and perspective.

Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! winking smiley

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: November 8, 2018 02:37

Quote
Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! winking smiley

No problem, I'll take it upon myself: I want the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 8, 2018 04:14

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! winking smiley

No problem, I'll take it upon myself: I want the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Haha well truthfully, I think most of us feel the same, but some of us might be a bit more forgiving considering their age, their need for family time, vacation time,
and all around different priorities at this point in their lives, etc. After all, Charlie needs time with his horses, and who are we to deny him that?! winking smiley

NO MORE EXCUSES - we want the album, and we want it now!!! And it better be GREAT!!!

smileys with beer

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Date: November 8, 2018 04:39

Quote
Hairball
Quote
doitywoik
Quote
Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! winking smiley

No problem, I'll take it upon myself: I want the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Haha well truthfully, I think most of us feel the same, but some of us might be a bit more forgiving considering their age, their need for family time, vacation time,
and all around different priorities at this point in their lives, etc. After all, Charlie needs time with his horses, and who are we to deny him that?! winking smiley

NO MORE EXCUSES - we want the album, and we want it now!!! And it better be GREAT!!!

smileys with beer
Yeah! And it better be GREAT!!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out smileys with beer winking smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: corriecas ()
Date: November 8, 2018 08:09

I try not to be too sure its gonna be a Great album.that would be nice but as long as it has 6 Very good songs on it.then i will be Happy.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-08 08:13 by corriecas.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: November 8, 2018 08:13

Quote
Hairball

Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!! winking smiley

Well after 14 bloody years, I DO WANT it today! They are musical artists, they should CREATE something apart from simply trotting out a greatest hits show in 14 gigs per year at exorbitant prices. "We're not in it for the money!"...uh huh.

Now - do I expect a new album to be GREAT? Well, that's purely subjective anyway. TO HAVE new Stones music WOULD be great. And I am sure some/few/many songs would be fantastic, maybe EVEN great. But a GREAT album? Possibly/probably not.

But I DO want new music...before I and truthfully they, depart this mortal coil. I am as big a Stones fan as anyone. I LOVE THEM. HAVE SINCE 1965. But I think they are taking the piss out of us now...

I say to them RETIRE or RELEASE

I am having a crappy day

****** Rod - love the missus, the Stones, Springsteen, Travel, NYC, Cars and Apple.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Swayed1967 ()
Date: November 8, 2018 08:26

Quote
Rocky Dijon


I picked U2 because, to a lesser degree, they're in the same boat. They've been around for decades, they're still very successful, their best work is far behind them, but they still wish to express themselves artistically. Where the comparison doesn't work is U2 didn't come up during the turbulent sixties, a decade of such amazing change and socio-political turmoil that the art that survives was seemingly forged in the flames of youthful discontent.

In the seventies, the Stones still did great work but it was worldweary or reflected their decadence or their refusal to grow old gracefully and conform. The spark of politics and the occult and genuine rebellion against the Establishment was gone once they became tax exiles living the jet set life. They've survived and endured as a business model certainly. They've exceeded most everyone's expectations of how long you can stay at the top of your game in one form or another.

That is why I suggest one can't reasonably compare SOME GIRLS to BEGGARS BANQUET because that decade of living makes a difference. Likewise, STEEL WHEELS couldn't be SOME GIRLS. You don't have to agree. You can continue to believe they should still produce songs as vital as "Street Fighting Man" with the same cultural impact. You'll be disppointed, of course.

Alternatively, one could argue that "Rough Justice" or "You Got Me Rocking" or "Start Me Up" still show a band that can fire on all cylinders and give one pleasure. I sometimes think it's not the Stones who don't measure up to expectations, it's that their audience doesn't. We grew old, except for our youthful passion for the band, and we can never recapture the elation of being young and hearing something magical as if for the first time. The exception is being in the stadium or arena when the band first hits the stage or the rose-tinted early perceptions of a long anticipated new release we're certain is their best work since our youthful standard of an artistic high water mark.

You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.

Well said.


Yeah that we have Exile and Beggars is really just a cosmic fluke. Imagine if Mick and Keith had been born 10 years later – no Exile, no Sticky no open G. If they had put a band together at all it would most likely be in the image of KC and the Sunshine Band or (at best) the Bay City Rollers. All speculation of course but I’m fairly certain their first album wouldn’t have sounded anything like Goat’s Head Soup...

And as we wait for their last album it’s worth remembering that the young men who wrote those classic songs exist today only as ghosts on records and in our souls. For all intents and purposes they’re dead, ladies and gentlemen, never to be heard from no more…

The question then becomes does one accept that fact and still find satisfaction in the fantastically unimportant records they’ve put out in the last 30 years? Or perhaps one prefers to avoid that question for now…give them one more chance….perfectly understandable. Me I’m wiser than that now, for better or worse. I used to be really stupid. When I was a kid I used to think ‘Weaver’ in the song ‘Dream Weaver’ (by Gary Wright) was a surname. Then I thought 'The Rolling Stones' meant 'The greatest and most culturally important rock 'n roll band in the world' but finally I learned that nothing lasts.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Date: November 8, 2018 10:13

Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.

We all know that.

A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.

And I trust they will on the new album.

For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.

I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that smileys with beer

thumbs upRe: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: November 8, 2018 10:29

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.

We all know that.

A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.

And I trust they will on the new album.

For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.

I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that

My sentiments entirely smileys with beer

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: GetYerAngie ()
Date: November 8, 2018 11:12

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.

We all know that.

A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.

And I trust they will on the new album.

For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.

I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that smileys with beer

thumbs up

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: RoughJusticeOnYa ()
Date: November 8, 2018 12:11

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.

We all know that.

A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.

And I trust they will on the new album.

For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.

I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that smileys with beer

Hear, hear, hear. (You & me both, babeee. smoking smiley)

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Date: November 8, 2018 13:34

Will we have IORR-correspondents out in Paris for updates on the Stones's studio sessions? smoking smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: November 8, 2018 17:48

Quote
Hairball

EP?

Hope that's a typo!!!

Who knows? If it were for Keith's three dynamite riffs, we'd maybe get only a maxi single?


Maybe EP because they decided to release only the good stuff and leave out the fillers? winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-08 17:52 by doitywoik.

Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: November 8, 2018 18:56

3 Singles was rumoured some time ago.
Equals an EP perhaps.

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