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matxil
[the fact that so many people expect this album to be great shows that the Stones are a great band?

Rather shows that the Stones are a band with great fans

More seriously: the Stones are seemingly among the very few old bands still being thought of (at least by some) as capable of delivering a great album. If the album is great, or how great it is, or sucks, is something we will hopefully find out sooner or later.

Whatever one thinks of their output in more recent decades, there isn't a single album they really had to be ashamed of (disregarding samplers). I have no problem with the fact/idea that the later albums are no longer at the same level as SF or EOMS - you'd have a hard time finding any group/artist that produces only masterpieces and never produced a not-so-great track.

And, let's be honest: we wouldn't expect/hope for a great late album from, say, The Sweet, would we?

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doitywoik

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matxil
[the fact that so many people expect this album to be great shows that the Stones are a great band?

Rather shows that the Stones are a band with great fans

More seriously: the Stones are seemingly among the very few old bands still being thought of (at least by some) as capable of delivering a great album. If the album is great, or how great it is, or sucks, is something we will hopefully find out sooner or later.

Whatever one thinks of their output in more recent decades, there isn't a single album they really had to be ashamed of (disregarding samplers). I have no problem with the fact/idea that the later albums are no longer at the same level as SF or EOMS - you'd have a hard time finding any group/artist that produces only masterpieces and never produced a not-so-great track.

And, let's be honest: we wouldn't expect/hope for a great late album from, say, The Sweet, would we?

A great band foster great fans

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DandelionPowderman
A great band foster great fans

Ergo: the Stones are a great band, QED.

I think noone here really thinks they are a shitty band. Otherwise, would we post 214 and counting pages about an album that wasn't even released yet?

Francis25
New Stones album for 2019?
December 9, 2016 16:17 Date Registered: 3 ***years ***ago
Posts: 5
Original title of this thread:
Another album in 2017 ?
-------------------------------------------------------

Started in 2016 and still no new album.........................

__________________________

Yes, the thread started when BLUE AND LONESOME was released since it was known they were working on a second studio album of original material as well. At the time it was hoped that album would follow in 2017. Work continued in fits and starts and they're now at the stage where the album will finish soon and be released in 2019 in conjunction with next year's tour. Is that really so outrageous for old men?

On the other hand, is it really so outrageous to be skeptical that "the album will finish soon and be released in 2019 in conjunction with" the tour?

Rocky and Roky are both correct. We give the band a pass because they want to make the final proper studio album something worth all the anticipation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 02:44 by nick.

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, the thread started when BLUE AND LONESOME was released since it was known they were working on a second studio album of original material as well. At the time it was hoped that album would follow in 2017. Work continued in fits and starts and they're now at the stage where the album will finish soon and be released in 2019 in conjunction with next year's tour. Is that really so outrageous for old men?

Do you mean that Blue and Lonesome is released 2 years ago..............man!!!!!it must be the age...

__________________________

I think it's the age and the wear and tear on their bodies over the decades. While it's still remarkable they do what they do, they've reached the point where many fans are saying "It's not enough. I expect more from you!"

Not to mention the creative burnout. McCartney is still turning out some decent stuff (I thought Egpyt Station was just so-so, but I really liked New), but he's one guy, while the Stones are a band and their music is dependent on that collective element to come together. Mick seems to be the only one who actively writes, and I am sure he comes up with some nice things here and there, his solo stuff is not what we have come to expect from the Stones. Honestly in a way, it seems like, for all their faults, every album from Voodoo Lounge onward feels better than it should have been.

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jahisnotdead
These are just my guesses, opinions, and wild speculations.

I'm sure I've said before that I think the main problem that's been stopping the Stones from producing new albums is that Keith and Mick just don't really write together anymore. I think Keith likes to jam things out in the studio and wait for inspiration to strike, and Mick likes to sit down with a guitar and write things at home. At this point it's hard to get them together and generate a bunch of new songs like they did decades ago.

But... they've been playing live shows together consistently through this period, and few can say they've lost any musical chops. Maybe Crosseyed Heart has gotten Keith back in the groove of collaborating and creating music. I'd say Mick's 40 demos are evidence of a fertile creative mind. It's like having three solo albums worth of material for Keith to choose from. I'd say that chances are high that there's at least a few cool tunes that Stones fans would dig buried in those 40 demos.

I don't know anything... I'd just amazed that we're actually beginning to discuss the long awaited New Album as if it were actually a thing that's coming soon!

Well, it is a privileged, almost surreal position we have!

I also belong to the group who has a rather positive vibes about the new album. I mean qualitywise. If A BIGGER BANG is the criterion we hope the new album will be judged against (we can't really refer to EXILE or SOME GIRLS here, nor the singles to be any new jumpingjackflashes or startmeups, can we?).

I think there are rather good indications that we are treated with something slightly better this time. CROSSEYED HEART showed that Keith still has some of his old creative juices running, and he has a charming 'older stateman' maturity in his doings. He is an old man but proud of it. If he would have saved, say, "Trouble" and "Robbed Blind" to a new Stones project, and having sung them, I think they would have been clearly stronger cuts than what he did for A BIGGER BANG. We could take some other tracks from CROSSEYED HEART as well to make that impression (I would also say that "One More Shot" - a 'leftover' from his album, might have worked better had he done the vocals).

Jagger's been all over the place for the last decade or so. There are those almost infamous '40 demos' proving his muse is still there. "Doom & Gloom" and "Gotta Get A Grip" show that the energetic drive is still there. With that he can move the mountains if needed (or at least the age barrier). Those two cuts have more focus than anything he did in A BIGGER BANG, which had a kind 'Jagger-by-numbers' feel especially in regard to the more energetic songs. But if those two cuts are 'Jagger-looking-forward' type of songs (add funny and clever "England Lost" there as well, something me thinks much better than "Sweet Neo-Con), he has showed another kind of Jagger as well. Something we have not really seen much earlier. The EXILE and SOME GIRLS bonus material put him to reflect some of his back pages, which I hope has some effect on his upcoming doings (which I think those already have had). Then there is, of course, BLUE & LONESOME, in which he shows he still has all of his blues chops left if needed - it could be that the whole album is his strongest artistic statement for decades. The strenght of his voice at least surprised this critical fan. The non-expected success of that album - and the appraisal he personally got for it - must be some effect on his doings, and increase his trust of showing more of that side of himself (that one short clip he shared indicates to that direction). And I am rather sure that Keith wouldn't mind that all...

But there are some dark clouds in the sky as well, of which the most darkest one is the issue of different and conflicting working methods by Mick and Keith (as you pointed out, and as we have discussed to the death along the course of this thread). For me that's something to do with age, and there is no way to get back to kitchens or motel rooms, or to endless studio sessions of Olympic, Stargraves, Nellcote or Pathe Marconi - that only belongs to history and romantic imagination of diehard fans, not to the nature of game of 70plus old senior zitizens (one being grandgrandpapa) who have achieved more than any rock stars in the world. With Mick and Keith I think their age shows most strongly in regard to this issue. As people got older, some personal traits and customs just got stronger and stronger. And harder is to make compromises.

Keith's artistic but fragile and time-consuming 'let's just jam and wait the inspiration to come' attitude is as strong as ever, even if bigger, but put into action it is not very productive in pragmatic terms. This is something CROSSEYED HEART with its four years of making showed. Developing the songs as long as it takes is not any longer question of days or weeks but that of years (divided to a selected sweet and short sessions). I don't think it is not only Jagger, but Wood and Watts as well who have voted with their feet against this method. None of them, Keith included, has any longer stamina or patience for that very demanding working method. The last time they tried it was for VOODOO LOUNGE a quarter century ago.

Mick, on the other hand, is as much a victim of his own habits and personal traits as Keith is. With him it is almost a trait of problem of concentration - everything needs to be done and efficiently as short time as possible. No any sec can be wasted. He always had that in him but nowadays - as a typical old man - he doesn't seem to do any compromises. So the best option for him is to do the whole thing just by his own - only some trusted and fast guy to help him to guide his ideas into final form is needed. We know who that person is. Songs are like flavor of the months kind of things: once quickly done it is forgotten, and here comes the new one. No time or interest to develop any demo further.

For me the infamous 'hit a wall' incidence sounds like these two rivalling methods confronting each other. Mick had a demo/demos into which the other Stones were supposed to add their flavor. Keith vetoed. He didn't/doesn't want to make a Stones record via this method. His remark of "Gotta Get A Grip" and "England Lost" belongs to the same token: "This is no Stones music". I take that not referring to the tunes themselves but how they were not developed further by the contribution of the whole band (and the whole band is like the extension of Keith's contribution). To add the needed Stonesy touch to them. And Mick is as stubborn as Keith is. "We do it my way or no way" (we know what Mick decided with those particular two tunes). Well, BLUE & LONESOME was the first compromise. We will later see how the new album will be executed. I wouldn't be too surprised if the result would be something similar to BRIDGES TO BABYLON (which, by the way, I think is damn uneven and incoherent, but still containing the best individual songs of the latter day Stones albums - only Mick and Keith's solo albums containing better material).

Personally I don't care about the working methods, Mick and Keith colloborating or not, making compromises or not, nor about musical styles, be it 'rootsie' or 'contemporary', be it blues or standard Open G pastishes or rap or polka... I just care about the result, not how people had gotten there. The cirmustances and premises could be perfect, but still the finished product sounding lame and mediocre. Or the circumstances being as hopeless and unlikely to get anything decent, but the result ending up sounding like dynamite. Or other way round. That's funny thing about creativity and one's unability to predict the result by reason. Surely, we might and can learn from the history, and make educated guesses from that base, but still there is nothing certain there. Forget logical implications.

Also for that reason - one cannot force creativity and one cannot either rule out beforehand a sudden touch of a muse - there is always a huge hope for any new release from a such high-profile artist like The Rolling Stones. I dare to be optimistic here. If we just forget all those exiles and somegirlses, and keep some kind of realism in mind (oh shit, I end up consulting the reason again...)

- Doxa



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 05:29 by Doxa.

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Rokyfan
On the other hand, is it really so outrageous to be skeptical that "the album will finish soon and be released in 2019 in conjunction with" the tour?

_____________________________


To answer you .. no it's not outrageous .. in fact.. it is becoming the 'probability' at this point.


Once the tour is announced (whenever that may be .. still surprised it may happen relatively soon) .. it will be officially the plan .. not to mention Universal is expecting it as such.


The album isn't a hopeful thing .. not by a long shot. It has long since been just a hopeful thing.. it is coming.. and it is the Stones direct intent to finish recording it soon .. and then mix it sometime after the first of the year and release it sometime in the first half of 2019. That is not wishful thinking .. it is their plan.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 05:36 by IanBillen.

its actually all very simple...the Stones are a RIFF driven band.....where are the riffs?.....get the riffs...you get the hits...and they do write nice soul ballads.....otherwise Id rather hear them re interpret other great tunes like they did with B & L..that was and remains awesome.

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IanBillen
The album isn't a hopeful thing .. not by a long shot. It has long since been just a hopeful thing.. it is coming.. and it is the Stones direct intent to finish recording it soon .. and then mix it sometime after the first of the year and release it sometime in the first half of 2019. That is not wishful thinking .. it is their plan.

Preach it Ian!



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 05:55 by Hairball.

Guys, it just shows how much the Stones support us fans! A while back it was stated that this thread must reach minimally page 250 before the new album is released. And the Stones do everything in their power to help us reach this goal!

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Hairball

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IanBillen
The album isn't a hopeful thing .. not by a long shot. It has long since been just a hopeful thing.. it is coming.. and it is the Stones direct intent to finish recording it soon .. and then mix it sometime after the first of the year and release it sometime in the first half of 2019. That is not wishful thinking .. it is their plan.

Preach it Ian!

________________________________


Yezzer ... Now did it / Is it taking too long ... YEEEEEEESSSSS!! Was I (as well as you) frustrated and to the point of giving up ... YEEEEESSSSSS ... Did they neglect it...and were they a bit lazy studio wise after they started it... F*** YESSSSS!!!!


Still .. Ima def looking forward to it (<as you predicted ha).

It's definitely been a long and winding road Ian, but as doitywoik pointed out above, only 36 pages to go until the album is released!
At the rate we're going though, might have to step it up a notch to coincide with the upcoming tour, so KEEP ON POSTING!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

<Keith's artistic but fragile and time-consuming 'let's just jam and wait the inspiration to come' attitude is as strong as ever, even if bigger, but put into action it is not very productive in pragmatic terms>

How do we know he still uses that approach? The pics/videos I have seen are all from Germano - alone, with Steve Jordan or with Mick and Jordan.

My guess is that Keith is too old to work like that anymore, but who knows?

What he says to the media is one thing, but...

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Doxa
... "Doom & Gloom" and "Gotta Get A Grip" show that the energetic drive is still there. With that he can move the mountains if needed (or at least the age barrier). Those two cuts have more focus than anything he did in A BIGGER BANG...

- Doxa

I loved your post - bar this little section. If It Won't Take Long, Under the Radar, I Don't Wanna Go Home, Laugh I Nearly Died and Oh No Not you Again, not to mention Back of My Hand and Dangerous Beauty aren't focussed, not sure what is! They sound plenty focussed to me, Doxa!

Rod



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-11-07 10:38 by bitusa2012.

Good Stones-tracks always had melodies.

Unfortunately, the lack of melody was my main concern with Gotta Get A Grip and England Lost. The melodies were non-existent.

Doom And Gloom wasn't exactly a melody-fest, either, but there was a structure there, with the groove - and we could relate to the different passages in the song, either by humming, shouting or singing parts. That helps + a good riff (which, in retrospect, D&G indeed had - at least it was effective).

Those solo tracks worry me a bit, but I'm sure they're working on that in particular for the new album. An album with undefinable grooves, wrapped in effects, would be a disaster, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

An album with undefinable grooves, wrapped in effects, would be a disaster, imo.

Keith probably won't allow such an Album ....

IMO opinion an album needs to be crafted. Not a miss mass of rehashed outtakes. I like some of the lyrics and reflection Mick did when he wrote his Goddess Album (hard to believe that was 16 or so years ago). In the new songs I am hoping for some reflection, some attitude, a bit of surliness and still some naughty sexual innuendo........after all they are The Rolling @#$%& Stones!!!!

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IanBillen

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Rokyfan
On the other hand, is it really so outrageous to be skeptical that "the album will finish soon and be released in 2019 in conjunction with" the tour?

_____________________________


To answer you .. no it's not outrageous .. in fact.. it is becoming the 'probability' at this point.


Once the tour is announced (whenever that may be .. still surprised it may happen relatively soon) .. it will be officially the plan .. not to mention Universal is expecting it as such.


The album isn't a hopeful thing .. not by a long shot. It has long since been just a hopeful thing.. it is coming.. and it is the Stones direct intent to finish recording it soon .. and then mix it sometime after the first of the year and release it sometime in the first half of 2019. That is not wishful thinking .. it is their plan.

A probability at this point. I think that is accurate.


The Stones' "direct intent" to "finish" an album soon and release it in the first half of 2019? Again, I think you are correct in inferring that that's their plan. We will see if it actually happens, that's all. There's a lot between a plan and an album.

They have booked studio time. I do believe we will have some great stuff ahead for the next year.

Bjornulf

The fact that it is taking so long to -hopefully- put together this final album, should be taken as a good sign. 'Bigger Bang' was done all wrong. It was not a Stones album. It was a Jagger album that had the Stones members playing on it.
And something like that could easily be thrown out there again. We'd get 16 generic rockers, ballads, peppered with 2 Keith tunes...yawn.
This does not seem to be happening. I do not believe that at this stage of their career, and their collective age, the plan is to go in Exile style and do a lot of riff based jamming, but if they can only keep Don Was's involvement low, and keep Matt Clifford on a distant continent, they should be able to generate some band chemistry. They need time to develop songs. ABB was rushed, way too rushed.

Once again: I have been listening to much outtakes in last moths. Was checking "Voodoo Brew" last 2 days. VL is my least favorite Stones record, and I blame Don Was. ( I wish I could remember Lem Motlow's hilarious summary of Don Was). VL should have been so much stronger. In the past we have always heard one or two left-overs from an album, and wondered why it wasn't used; but with VL there is an entire album that was scrapped in favor of inferior material.
There is a version of "Honest Man" where Keith joins in fully committed, and it features some of his most lethal riffage. No one can work a Telecaster like that besides Keith. And "Zip Mouth AngeL" with that lonesome guitar, and percussion, and mumbled lyrics hits you so much deeper than "Out of Tears" with all it's careful,careful ponderance.

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Palace Revolution 2000
The fact that it is taking so long to -hopefully- put together this final album, should be taken as a good sign. 'Bigger Bang' was done all wrong. It was not a Stones album. It was a Jagger album that had the Stones members playing on it.
And something like that could easily be thrown out there again. We'd get 16 generic rockers, ballads, peppered with 2 Keith tunes...yawn.
This does not seem to be happening. I do not believe that at this stage of their career, and their collective age, the plan is to go in Exile style and do a lot of riff based jamming, but if they can only keep Don Was's involvement low, and keep Matt Clifford on a distant continent, they should be able to generate some band chemistry. They need time to develop songs. ABB was rushed, way too rushed.

Once again: I have been listening to much outtakes in last moths. Was checking "Voodoo Brew" last 2 days. VL is my least favorite Stones record, and I blame Don Was. ( I wish I could remember Lem Motlow's hilarious summary of Don Was). VL should have been so much stronger. In the past we have always heard one or two left-overs from an album, and wondered why it wasn't used; but with VL there is an entire album that was scrapped in favor of inferior material.
There is a version of "Honest Man" where Keith joins in fully committed, and it features some of his most lethal riffage. No one can work a Telecaster like that besides Keith. And "Zip Mouth AngeL" with that lonesome guitar, and percussion, and mumbled lyrics hits you so much deeper than "Out of Tears" with all it's careful,careful ponderance.

That's very interesting! I've only heard a couple of versions with Mick on guitar.

Honest Man is too similar to Sweet Thing, imo, to make it on a Stones release. But I like it anyhow.

Respectfully, Don Was is their producer, including catalog reissues. He's not going anywhere.

Mick writes and arranges songs with Matt Clifford or Dave Stewart. They are Mick's preferred collaborators just as Steve Jordan is Keith's.

We can say all day that things would be better if the following people were far away from our heroes. In essence, you're wishing the past 25 or 30 years hadn't happened. Not paritcularly realistic.

The new album will likely have the same reaction as their albums always have. Ridiculously overrated at the outset and then unfairly criticized once it is no longer new. They can't help it that it's not the 1960s or 1970s any more just as they can't help it that most iorrians aren't young with their whole lives in front of them any longer.