For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
jloweQuote
CousinC
The Leavell stuff brings back what Glyn Johns said about the Stones' way to record and especially Dance little Sister. As a musician myself it would drive me crazy.
After playing a song more than 3-4 times in a row it mostly looses momentum and sharpness.
I'd like to know what Leavell and all those people really think of them.
Uum..reminds me of Ry Cooder's brief involvement with the Stones.
I don't think he was too impressed!
Quote
KeithNacho
Is "new wave" the title of the supossed new album??
Quote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
CamRS
Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.
The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly
-Cam
Part of the problem is, however, that since the late 70's, there hasn't been any real progress in rock music. In electronic music, in hip-hop, in R&B (what they call R&B nowadays) there's been a lot of things going on. In rock music, however, there was only grunge and indie, two words for "the same old" and "the emperor's new clothes". So indeed: where can one get one's inspiration from?
New Wave deserves a mention, though. Many will say early 80s metal as well. 1982 was a goundbreaking year for metal, according to the metal heads
Thank God the Rolling Stones never tried to sound like Depeche Mode, The Cure or Joy Division (and that latter band I even like). And metal..., well,..., what can I say... maybe it would have been fun if they'd have had a go at that, preferably something like gothic-death-trash-zombie-metal. Very tongue in cheek.
None of them were new wave, though.
Try This:
[www.youtube.com]
Aside from *Joy Division, I've always considered those bands New Wave. Curious as to how you would label them?
The term "New Wave" has a rather loose definition, and maybe it means one thing one place, and something else in another.
Could also defined depending on the context of someone's particular era - for me it simply means post-punk with a pop sensibilty sometimes combined with synths, drum machines, etc.
But if you look at any list of New Wave bands, The Cure and Depeche Mode are almost always mentioned.
Deja Vu as I recall we had a similar discussion on whether Motorhead is considered "Heavy Metal" - I said yes, and you said no.
Again, the term has a loose definition and could mean one thing one place, and something else in another, along with depending on the context of someone's particular era.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Edit: The more I think about, the more I would lean towards labeling Joy Divison as part of New Wave as well.
Quote
blivetQuote
jloweQuote
CousinC
The Leavell stuff brings back what Glyn Johns said about the Stones' way to record and especially Dance little Sister. As a musician myself it would drive me crazy.
After playing a song more than 3-4 times in a row it mostly looses momentum and sharpness.
I'd like to know what Leavell and all those people really think of them.
Uum..reminds me of Ry Cooder's brief involvement with the Stones.
I don't think he was too impressed!
If I recall correctly Jeff Beck played a bit with the band around the time they were looking for a replacement for Taylor, and said that he was amazed at how unprofessional they were, and that he had no idea how they managed to produce anything worthwhile with their methods.
Jagger also said someplace that Godard got really lucky with One Plus One, having caught them at an unusually productive moment, and that that most of the time in the studio they were just sitting around playing aimlessly.
Quote
blivetQuote
jloweQuote
CousinC
The Leavell stuff brings back what Glyn Johns said about the Stones' way to record and especially Dance little Sister. As a musician myself it would drive me crazy.
After playing a song more than 3-4 times in a row it mostly looses momentum and sharpness.
I'd like to know what Leavell and all those people really think of them.
Uum..reminds me of Ry Cooder's brief involvement with the Stones.
I don't think he was too impressed!
If I recall correctly Jeff Beck played a bit with the band around the time they were looking for a replacement for Taylor, and said that he was amazed at how unprofessional they were, and that he had no idea how they managed to produce anything worthwhile with their methods.
Jagger also said someplace that Godard got really lucky with One Plus One, having caught them at an unusually productive moment, and that that most of the time in the studio they were just sitting around playing aimlessly.
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000Quote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
CamRS
Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.
The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly
-Cam
Part of the problem is, however, that since the late 70's, there hasn't been any real progress in rock music. In electronic music, in hip-hop, in R&B (what they call R&B nowadays) there's been a lot of things going on. In rock music, however, there was only grunge and indie, two words for "the same old" and "the emperor's new clothes". So indeed: where can one get one's inspiration from?
New Wave deserves a mention, though. Many will say early 80s metal as well. 1982 was a goundbreaking year for metal, according to the metal heads
Thank God the Rolling Stones never tried to sound like Depeche Mode, The Cure or Joy Division (and that latter band I even like). And metal..., well,..., what can I say... maybe it would have been fun if they'd have had a go at that, preferably something like gothic-death-trash-zombie-metal. Very tongue in cheek.
None of them were new wave, though.
Try This:
[www.youtube.com]
Aside from *Joy Division, I've always considered those bands New Wave. Curious as to how you would label them?
The term "New Wave" has a rather loose definition, and maybe it means one thing one place, and something else in another.
Could also defined depending on the context of someone's particular era - for me it simply means post-punk with a pop sensibilty sometimes combined with synths, drum machines, etc.
But if you look at any list of New Wave bands, The Cure and Depeche Mode are almost always mentioned.
Deja Vu as I recall we had a similar discussion on whether Motorhead is considered "Heavy Metal" - I said yes, and you said no.
Again, the term has a loose definition and could mean one thing one place, and something else in another, along with depending on the context of someone's particular era.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*Edit: The more I think about, the more I would lean towards labeling Joy Divison as part of New Wave as well.
LOL Hairball, because I sort of thought the same thing: Depeche, Cure, to me have been pretty much the epidemy of New Wave. And yes, I had to think on it too; but Joy D should be in there too. Era-wise, city-wise, and philosophically too. The film "24 Hour Party People" probably swayed me in that call.
Quote
Chris Fountain
Speaking of Freeze Frame - the best song on album is "Do You Remember When?" Peter Wolf sings his ass off on this effort. It is truly a great song. Song is practically unknown to public.
Quote
KeithNacho
Is "new wave" the title of the supossed new album??
Quote
matxilQuote
KeithNacho
Is "new wave" the title of the supossed new album??
Mick wants to call it "new wave", Keith wants to call it "post-punk". That explains the delay.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Many of the bands you mention came in late in the wave (pun intended), hence they will be a borderline musical fit.
If you go back to my debate with matxil you'll find that we were talking about which bands who entered the scene in the late 70s.
Today people say The Beatles was a rock band, but they certainly weren't that in the early 60s.
Things blur out with time, especially marginal genres like new wave.
But the mix of rock guitars and synths certainly characterised the genre in the beginning. And this was way before Martin Gore or Dave Gahan learned their two guitar chords
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Many of the bands you mention came in late in the wave (pun intended), hence they will be a borderline musical fit.
If you go back to my debate with matxil you'll find that we were talking about which bands who entered the scene in the late 70s.
Today people say The Beatles was a rock band, but they certainly weren't that in the early 60s.
Things blur out with time, especially marginal genres like new wave.
But the mix of rock guitars and synths certainly characterised the genre in the beginning. And this was way before Martin Gore or Dave Gahan learned their two guitar chords
Joy Division was late 70's, started as a - sort of - punk band and mixed rock guitars with - increasingly - synths. When I grew up, I think we all considered Joy Division new wave, just as The Cure. Depeche Mode was more "pop", I agree with you on that. I never knew really there was a difference between "new-wave" and "post-punk" though. PIL is often called "post-punk" but I think in the 80s we called it new-wave just as well. It's a vague term really. In any case, as far as I know, the Stones never got very much influenced by none of those bands. The 80's sound is definately there on DW, but I don't think it comes from new-wave/post-punk influences. They did try a bit of grunge/indie, with dramatic results ("Stealing My Heart").
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Chris Fountain
Speaking of Freeze Frame - the best song on album is "Do You Remember When?" Peter Wolf sings his ass off on this effort. It is truly a great song. Song is practically unknown to public.
Fantastic tune! Absolutely beautiful
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
Many of the bands you mention came in late in the wave (pun intended), hence they will be a borderline musical fit.
If you go back to my debate with matxil you'll find that we were talking about which bands who entered the scene in the late 70s.
Today people say The Beatles was a rock band, but they certainly weren't that in the early 60s.
Things blur out with time, especially marginal genres like new wave.
But the mix of rock guitars and synths certainly characterised the genre in the beginning. And this was way before Martin Gore or Dave Gahan learned their two guitar chords
Joy Division was late 70's, started as a - sort of - punk band and mixed rock guitars with - increasingly - synths. When I grew up, I think we all considered Joy Division new wave, just as The Cure. Depeche Mode was more "pop", I agree with you on that. I never knew really there was a difference between "new-wave" and "post-punk" though. PIL is often called "post-punk" but I think in the 80s we called it new-wave just as well. It's a vague term really. In any case, as far as I know, the Stones never got very much influenced by none of those bands. The 80's sound is definately there on DW, but I don't think it comes from new-wave/post-punk influences. They did try a bit of grunge/indie, with dramatic results ("Stealing My Heart").
Maybe Undercover (Of The Night) was the closest they got?
Even John Hiatt flirted with the genre in the early 1980s
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Chris Fountain
Speaking of Freeze Frame - the best song on album is "Do You Remember When?" Peter Wolf sings his ass off on this effort. It is truly a great song. Song is practically unknown to public.
Fantastic tune! Absolutely beautiful
Quote
cowboytoastQuote
Doxa
But that they needed some eight to nine days in a row to get that one on tape, to 'nail' it! Mamma mia! I personally find that absolutely crazy, since to me there is absulutely nothing there that I find worth the effort. Their idea of 'perfection' is to me a mark of lack of judgment there (and being surrounded by yes-men).
- Doxa
You absolutely nailed it pal - you know that they are surrounded with guys that are so happy to be in the room that they will listen to them bash out CRAP for days and hours on end and say "man that sounds great - reminds me of something off of Beggar's banquet or Exile!!!" - when what they really need is a producer in there that would kick them in the balls - tell them when it's crap - maybe rile them up enough to put in some effort-
I tried to listen to A Bigger Bang on my commute this morning - those cliche lyrics - no effort whatsoever going into them - i found myself skipping through the whole thing until the last 15 minutes of my ride was a Streetwalkers LP-
with all of this being said I always hope they will come through with something - even with all of their crap they have done enough to still be the best-
Quote
mailexile67
OK...So, let's close this pointless thread and...On with the show!
Right, Sister Morphine was Keith on acoustic guitar, I forgot. Still I feel like Keith was a bit absent after their 1969 america tour (with altamont) and that this was the time Keith discovered the harder drugs. And that rather Mick was steering the ship than Keith. Only my assessment though...Quote
DandelionPowderman
Isn't it pretty well-documented that SFTD wasn't quite finished?
<(Sway, Moonlight Mile, Sister Morphine...) and even recording them without Keith>
Only MM was recorded without Keith, though.
In my golden years Keith brought way more than a riff to the table
Here's a rather touching (and rare?) attempt of the Glimmers writing together for the DW-sessions
[www.youtube.com]
Quote
DandelionPowderman
How hard is it, really? They could play three 12 bar blues/rockers in different keys/different rhythms, and then work on the melodies/lyrics later.
Then they could write a standard country-ish tune. 3 or 4 chords. Again, melody/lyrics later.
They could ask Chuck to play something gospel-ish, and fine-tune in their antennas, use what Chuck played as inspiration and work from there.
Ronnie probably have a few ideas. Let him start a few tunes, and work with him on those.
And voila! They have an album. 10 songs will suffice.
Darn, this is easy in theory!
Quote
Doxa
I think StonedRambler is generally right about the tendency on balance of Mick vs. Keith songs since the times of STICKY FINGERS. That of Mick bringing more rather complete written songs to the table than Keith, and Keith's songs started be more like riff ideas to be developed into songs in a studio.
If we take STICKY FINGERS, more or less 'pure' Mick songs are "Brown Sugar", "Sway", "Dead Flowers", "Sister Morphine" and "Moonlight Mile". He most likely had a huge contribution in creating a jam-based "Bitch" as well. Keith wrote the music of "Wild Horses", the riff or song part of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and probably the guitar base of "I Got The Blues".
It's pretty amazing change from the times of AFTERMATH in which every song musically was more or less written by Keith. The contrast in this sense is much more dramatical between AFTERMATH and STICKY FINGERS than between STICKY FINGERS and A BIGGER BANG.
- Doxa