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IanBillen
He also knows what they sound like (at least right now) .. he just didn't / doesn't want to say.
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doitywoikQuote
keithsman
I think the time you might be referring to when he completely forgot how to play was after band introductions and before playing Happy, after wishing Patti Happy Birthday he just had a brain freeze, it was in Mexico on the previous tour in 2016. One explanation could be a side effect from his anti seizure meds, who knows but that was upsetting to watch, i thought he was having a stroke.
No, I was referring to No Filter 2017, Spielberg and a few other shows but Spielberg struck me the most. Unfortunately I can't recall what song it was, there were a number of youtube clips posted here. I didn't know about the "Mexico incident" but my feelings were pretty much the same.Quote
keithsman
Not sure what coordination problems you noticed Keith having in 89' 90' can you give examples ?
I just started to notice that sometimes (occasionally) he was slightly off in riffs or arpeggios in a way that didn't occur earlier, and there were more such moments in the Voodoo launch tour, and yet more in each subsequent tour, up to No Filter, when he was off more than just slightly and, one is tempted to say, to an almost alarming extent. In addition then also the various TV appearances, say, from 1988 onwards, where one felt like his playing is gradually deteriorating.
I didn't want to say too much about the second half of 2017's No Filter tour because I had followed the first half of the tour very closely but couldn't follow the tour in the same detail later on (sometimes life gets between you and the Stones ...)
Personally, I would be OK with a level of playing as in the 14 On Fire tour. Asking for anything beyond that would be unfair.
But to say something positive: technically, Ronnie's playing is not what it used to be in the 70s either but on stage he is continuously growing, it seems, playing clever, thoughtful and engaged. You don't have to do the Paganini to make it good music.
On a sidenote, there are also other victims of arthritis. John McLaughlin, one of the most varied musicians of the last 50+ years and technically in a league beyond most other guitarists on the planet, announced in Oct. 2017 that from 2018 on he wouldn't go on extended tours any longer but only do special events because his arthritis developed in a way that he could no longer be sure to be in proper playing condition on every gig of a tour.
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matxil
Yes, but you see, this is not really bad. He clearly forgot the intro, looks for it for a while, tries to find it, then let's the band start and acknowledges with a laugh that he almost forgot it and then sort of recovers. This might happen to anyone and as soon as you take it for what it is and apologize, it's no big deal.
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
If I have to give some kind of presentation, I might forget some correct technical word or mispronounce something, that's fine. It's something else to give that same presentation every day and in the middle try to tell a joke that falls flat every single time.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxil
Yes, but you see, this is not really bad. He clearly forgot the intro, looks for it for a while, tries to find it, then let's the band start and acknowledges with a laugh that he almost forgot it and then sort of recovers. This might happen to anyone and as soon as you take it for what it is and apologize, it's no big deal.
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
If I have to give some kind of presentation, I might forget some correct technical word or mispronounce something, that's fine. It's something else to give that same presentation every day and in the middle try to tell a joke that falls flat every single time.
Wasn't it Patti's birthday, or something? I think he was touched or moved by something here, and playing wasn't his #1 priority there and then
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matxilQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxil
Yes, but you see, this is not really bad. He clearly forgot the intro, looks for it for a while, tries to find it, then let's the band start and acknowledges with a laugh that he almost forgot it and then sort of recovers. This might happen to anyone and as soon as you take it for what it is and apologize, it's no big deal.
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
If I have to give some kind of presentation, I might forget some correct technical word or mispronounce something, that's fine. It's something else to give that same presentation every day and in the middle try to tell a joke that falls flat every single time.
Wasn't it Patti's birthday, or something? I think he was touched or moved by something here, and playing wasn't his #1 priority there and then
There's also that. And f-ups have been part of the Stones since forever. The famous Wimbledon "She's So Cold" comes to mind (1981 or thereabouts) and some version in the early 70's of Midnight Rambler where during the break Charlie and Mick and Keith are none of them synchronized with each other. It means they are a live band, f-ups and all.
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Hairball
Interesting analysis of Keith's fingers by rheumatologist Dr. Ronan Kavanagh written around the time LIFE came out.
(Interesting comments also below article)
FINGERS
Along with gnarled fingers, Keith's face appears really old in this pic when compared to today.
There was talk of him having some sort of work on his face last year- botox or whatever, but I think his healthier look is due to healthier living.
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keithsman
i don't think his fingers hurt him so much as get in the way
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matxil
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
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doitywoikQuote
keithsman
i don't think his fingers hurt him so much as get in the way
There was this interview not so long ago where a journalist investigated Keith's fingers and then she asked him if they hurt, and Keith answered that there isn't any pain from his fingers.Quote
matxil
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
That's something that puzzled me too. It must have been obvious to the Stones as well that something was going wrong with SFTD. Normally, if you see you can't do it like you could 30 years earlier, you would try to find something that you can still do and also sounds OK, and rehearse it until it sticks.
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matxil
Yes, but you see, this is not really bad. He clearly forgot the intro, looks for it for a while, tries to find it, then let's the band start and acknowledges with a laugh that he almost forgot it and then sort of recovers.
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keithsman
B. Why doesn't Mick DROP Sympathy from the setlist, its what Mick does when he himself struggles with a song. I don't understand why Mick is happy for Keith to make a mess of it night after night,
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keithsman
Keith has played the intro to Happy so many times, to completely forget it for that long was a shock.
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keithsman
Personally i could live without the Stones ever playing Miss You, Satisfaction and IORR again,
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keithsman
I just think Keith needed a rest from Sympathy, maybe he could have looked at it from a different angle had he had a break from it.
Like on the last tour Under My Thumb was great again, and so was Street Fighting Man and Slipping Away, a rest is good sometimes.
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Hairball
...it's the iconic solos of Gimme Shelter and especially Sympathy that sometimes stray way off the deep end.
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Hairball
I don't think he intentionally screws things up, and in his fragile mind he might actually think he's playing something stunning, but someone should let him know it ain't happening. For instance when he strikes a pose, hands in the air, smiling and nodding to the audience as of he just played a masterpiece when in reality there's no sound at all coming from his guitar, you can only smile back and be thankful he's alive.
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IanBillenQuote
HairballQuote
IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..
I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!
__________________________________
Ha!!! Ikr.
I mean Im quite certain he cares in the final product.. while hearing it .. if he must speak up and say something and Im certain he is going to give his best while he is there with em but other than that.... I think we all know Charlie never gives the album .. its progress.. whatever is going on with it a thought in the world lol
If it was brought to his attention that the album was permanently shelved and discontinued Charlie would only regret it being a waste of time .. and not a sad situation. I don't think Charlie ever thinks about the album unless someone mentions it to him. However that is not unlike his thought and feelings toward all the other Stones albums over the last 35 plus years lol.
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matxil
Yes, but you see, this is not really bad. He clearly forgot the intro, looks for it for a while, tries to find it, then let's the band start and acknowledges with a laugh that he almost forgot it and then sort of recovers. This might happen to anyone and as soon as you take it for what it is and apologize, it's no big deal.
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
If I have to give some kind of presentation, I might forget some correct technical word or mispronounce something, that's fine. It's something else to give that same presentation every day and in the middle try to tell a joke that falls flat every single time.
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DandelionPowderman
His condition is Heberden's nodes
And one doesn't have to use the index finger over all strings to hold a barre chord
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keithsmanQuote
doitywoikQuote
keithsman
i don't think his fingers hurt him so much as get in the way
There was this interview not so long ago where a journalist investigated Keith's fingers and then she asked him if they hurt, and Keith answered that there isn't any pain from his fingers.Quote
matxil
It's quite different from going at SFTD every night, for months and years, and instead of doing something straightforward but sounding okay, taking into account the arthritis etc..., try to do something incomprehensible that sounds terrible.
That's something that puzzled me too. It must have been obvious to the Stones as well that something was going wrong with SFTD. Normally, if you see you can't do it like you could 30 years earlier, you would try to find something that you can still do and also sounds OK, and rehearse it until it sticks.
We might be going in circles here, this takes us back to what i was suggesting earlier.
Keith seems to be refusing or is unable to do anything to improve the situation with his poor soloing on Sympathy
So to try and understand whats going on and improve things one of two things need to happen..
A. We accept it, SFTD stays in the set list and we move on.
(If Keith actively fails every night to simplify or change the solo to an audible sound outside of what can only be appreciated by Aliens , then he is either playing it that way for a reason because he likes the way he is playing it, or he can't do anything about the way he's playing it, or maybe there's some kind of mind games taking place that is beyond our knowledge.)
B. Why doesn't Mick DROP Sympathy from the setlist, its what Mick does when he himself struggles with a song. I don't understand why Mick is happy for Keith to make a mess of it night after night, Mick's a consummate professional and surely he want's to deliver the best possible show to the people where Keith shines in his performances as best he can as well as Mick ??
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GasLightStreetQuote
IanBillenQuote
HairballQuote
IanBillen
Charlie doesn't care ..
I hereby nominate this as the title of the new album!
__________________________________
Ha!!! Ikr.
I mean Im quite certain he cares in the final product.. while hearing it .. if he must speak up and say something and Im certain he is going to give his best while he is there with em but other than that.... I think we all know Charlie never gives the album .. its progress.. whatever is going on with it a thought in the world lol
If it was brought to his attention that the album was permanently shelved and discontinued Charlie would only regret it being a waste of time .. and not a sad situation. I don't think Charlie ever thinks about the album unless someone mentions it to him. However that is not unlike his thought and feelings toward all the other Stones albums over the last 35 plus years lol.
About Charlie with BRIDGES TO BABYLON:
Charlie returned for the (mixing sessions) and stayed for a while. Not through to the bitter end but long enough to hear things and put his opinion in, which is really great. I really love it when he gets involved.
- Rob Fraboni, 1997
Charlie is now fully ware of the pitfalls of being a bandleader. Nor would you ever in the old days have seen him walk into the control room and say, My hi-hat needs this or that. Now he's made his own records, he's much more meticulous about his drum sound. And that's a great thing, because it takes more of the weight off it just being Mick and me all the time. Which just puts us head-to-head.
- Keith Richards, September 1997
[timeisonourside.com]
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Hairball
Charlie is more into the visual aspects of the band such as the stage design and merch design even helping to design various t-shirts, etc. And now his Granddaughter is collaborating with other more established artists to design a few of the lithos from the last couple of tours - art seems to run in the family. Perhaps Charlie will design the next album cover - at this point it's basically a blank slate without a title or completed tracks and the skies the limit. Maybe a blank white album cover inspired by the Beatles will be in order...or a Wall design similar to Pink Floyd's The Wall but with someone banging their head against it.