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Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 25, 2019 16:22

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georgie48
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GasLightStreet
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roller99
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georgie48
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Hairball
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keefriff99
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GasLightStreet
I like this second, definitive one the best.

The teeth are a bit more defined and there's a shadow on the tongue under the teeth, as opposed to the first design.

thumbs up

And the highlight on the left side of tongue.

In retrospect, the Stones have to thank Craig Braun, diMiceli an Valez for this one. Excellent team work, given the very difficult circumstances at the time (late 1970 to early 1971) spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Correction: Craig Braun/Ernie Cefalu. Criag owned the company, Ernie drew it.

WRONG.

Why these ignorant myths keep getting gurgitated is mind boggling.

Ernie had ZERO to do with the original logo. Craig Braun's team edited the original, which was designed by John Pasche, all of which has been documented. Ernie Cefalu had NOTHING to do with the logo.

Ernie did his version later strictly for merchandise.

You are absolutely right GLS! Even the stories about "Ernie's" logo have been uncovered. That logo was also "owned" by Craig Braun's company merchandise wise for three years. He had an agreement with Rolling Stones Records (read: Musidor) for that.
Ernie had a mouth sample (from another record label) to show as reference when he joined Braun's company and it was Braun and Chess who gave him instructions to add (!) a sticking-out tongue to it, which resulted in that "in between" version. So even the term "his version" is out of place here.

Well, "his version" being the one that doesn't exactly look like the Stones logo, it looks cheap. I suppose he had to make it look different - so he made it much uglier.

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: May 25, 2019 18:29

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GasLightStreet
Quote
georgie48
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
roller99
Quote
georgie48
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriff99
Quote
GasLightStreet
I like this second, definitive one the best.

The teeth are a bit more defined and there's a shadow on the tongue under the teeth, as opposed to the first design.

thumbs up

And the highlight on the left side of tongue.

In retrospect, the Stones have to thank Craig Braun, diMiceli an Valez for this one. Excellent team work, given the very difficult circumstances at the time (late 1970 to early 1971) spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Correction: Craig Braun/Ernie Cefalu. Criag owned the company, Ernie drew it.

WRONG.

Why these ignorant myths keep getting gurgitated is mind boggling.

Ernie had ZERO to do with the original logo. Craig Braun's team edited the original, which was designed by John Pasche, all of which has been documented. Ernie Cefalu had NOTHING to do with the logo.

Ernie did his version later strictly for merchandise.

You are absolutely right GLS! Even the stories about "Ernie's" logo have been uncovered. That logo was also "owned" by Craig Braun's company merchandise wise for three years. He had an agreement with Rolling Stones Records (read: Musidor) for that.
Ernie had a mouth sample (from another record label) to show as reference when he joined Braun's company and it was Braun and Chess who gave him instructions to add (!) a sticking-out tongue to it, which resulted in that "in between" version. So even the term "his version" is out of place here.

Well, "his version" being the one that doesn't exactly look like the Stones logo, it looks cheap. I suppose he had to make it look different - so he made it much uglier.

As he said himself in a video taped interview, he didn't know the USA-version of the Lips&Tongue logo at all while he was working for Braun (also confirmed by documented statements from former colleagues). So neither Pasche's original version nor the USA version could ever have "inspired" him.
Braun's company was experimenting with several different logo versions at the time and the "ugly one" was just one of them. The final choice (without the Stones knowing, but Chess, being in the USA at the time, had a "heavy voice" as president of Rolling Stones Records) was made by Braun and his two co-workers. Perfect choice!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: May 26, 2019 01:36

Quote
georgie48
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
georgie48
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
roller99
Quote
georgie48
Quote
Hairball
Quote
keefriff99
Quote
GasLightStreet
I like this second, definitive one the best.

The teeth are a bit more defined and there's a shadow on the tongue under the teeth, as opposed to the first design.

thumbs up

And the highlight on the left side of tongue.

In retrospect, the Stones have to thank Craig Braun, diMiceli an Valez for this one. Excellent team work, given the very difficult circumstances at the time (late 1970 to early 1971) spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Correction: Craig Braun/Ernie Cefalu. Criag owned the company, Ernie drew it.

WRONG.

Why these ignorant myths keep getting gurgitated is mind boggling.

Ernie had ZERO to do with the original logo. Craig Braun's team edited the original, which was designed by John Pasche, all of which has been documented. Ernie Cefalu had NOTHING to do with the logo.

Ernie did his version later strictly for merchandise.

You are absolutely right GLS! Even the stories about "Ernie's" logo have been uncovered. That logo was also "owned" by Craig Braun's company merchandise wise for three years. He had an agreement with Rolling Stones Records (read: Musidor) for that.
Ernie had a mouth sample (from another record label) to show as reference when he joined Braun's company and it was Braun and Chess who gave him instructions to add (!) a sticking-out tongue to it, which resulted in that "in between" version. So even the term "his version" is out of place here.

Well, "his version" being the one that doesn't exactly look like the Stones logo, it looks cheap. I suppose he had to make it look different - so he made it much uglier.

As he said himself in a video taped interview, he didn't know the USA-version of the Lips&Tongue logo at all while he was working for Braun (also confirmed by documented statements from former colleagues). So neither Pasche's original version nor the USA version could ever have "inspired" him.
Braun's company was experimenting with several different logo versions at the time and the "ugly one" was just one of them. The final choice (without the Stones knowing, but Chess, being in the USA at the time, had a "heavy voice" as president of Rolling Stones Records) was made by Braun and his two co-workers. Perfect choice!spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story? Please tell me again, I'm interested in where you get your knowledge. I mean, anything you've read in print must be the truth, right? I suppose you've spoken with John Pasche, The Rolling Stones management, Shep Gordon, the board over at NARAS, and a bunch of other recording industry insiders, right?

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 26, 2019 01:59

Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story?

Hey this is nuffin' …
You should checkout ---- New Stones album for 2019?



ROCKMAN

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Xam ()
Date: May 26, 2019 02:16

:D



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-26 07:30 by Xam.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: May 26, 2019 13:58

Quote
Rockman
Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story?

Hey this is nuffin' …
You should checkout ---- New Stones album for 2019?

Hi Rockman,
I like that word "nuffin'". Yeah, some on this site pretend to be Stones fans, but in fact are journalists or any of that kind.
For Roller (whatever he may be): there was no reading from somewhere, no copying from somewhere, just FACTS obtained from "the real people".
But, heaving said that, that's as far as I go winking smiley

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 26, 2019 16:48

Quote
roller99
Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story? Please tell me again, I'm interested in where you get your knowledge. I mean, anything you've read in print must be the truth, right? I suppose you've spoken with John Pasche, The Rolling Stones management, Shep Gordon, the board over at NARAS, and a bunch of other recording industry insiders, right?

When there is documentation, copyrights, trademarks and purchased art that is all findable online and in books of John Pasche and Mick Jagger and Marshall Chess and Craig Braun and the London Museum with the original logo, believing a kook would seem a little silly.

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: Natlanta ()
Date: May 26, 2019 17:18

wait that’s a tongue?

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: Xam ()
Date: May 26, 2019 17:21

Quote
Natlanta
wait that’s a tongue?
where?

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 27, 2019 03:31


Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 27, 2019 03:35


Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 27, 2019 09:05

HECK!!!!! ….. too much detail ….^^^^^^



ROCKMAN

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 27, 2019 23:44


4th of July

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Xam ()
Date: May 27, 2019 23:59

`



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-28 12:25 by Xam.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Xam ()
Date: May 28, 2019 00:04

`



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-28 12:25 by Xam.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 28, 2019 05:55


Mick Jagger of The Rolling Stones performs onstage during Desert Trip at the Empire Polo Field on Oct. 7, 2016 in Indio, California. (Kevin Winter)

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: roller99 ()
Date: May 28, 2019 15:15

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
roller99
Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story? Please tell me again, I'm interested in where you get your knowledge. I mean, anything you've read in print must be the truth, right? I suppose you've spoken with John Pasche, The Rolling Stones management, Shep Gordon, the board over at NARAS, and a bunch of other recording industry insiders, right?

When there is documentation, copyrights, trademarks and purchased art that is all findable online and in books of John Pasche and Mick Jagger and Marshall Chess and Craig Braun and the London Museum with the original logo, believing a kook would seem a little silly.

Well, I guess you've read into some erroneous writing. Ernie's tongue is ON The Rolling Stones website, so it is recognized as official. He worked for Braun at the time, so that's easily proven. Still, you've just read something and taken it as the gospel. I've spoken with people directly connected with this topic, but you just keep going with your opinion, you're entitled to it. The court of public opinion....

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 28, 2019 17:32

Quote
roller99
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
roller99
Wow, it's funny how you guys say so much, but know so little. How exactly is it that you're connected with anyone in the story? Please tell me again, I'm interested in where you get your knowledge. I mean, anything you've read in print must be the truth, right? I suppose you've spoken with John Pasche, The Rolling Stones management, Shep Gordon, the board over at NARAS, and a bunch of other recording industry insiders, right?

When there is documentation, copyrights, trademarks and purchased art that is all findable online and in books of John Pasche and Mick Jagger and Marshall Chess and Craig Braun and the London Museum with the original logo, believing a kook would seem a little silly.

Well, I guess you've read into some erroneous writing. Ernie's tongue is ON The Rolling Stones website, so it is recognized as official. He worked for Braun at the time, so that's easily proven. Still, you've just read something and taken it as the gospel. I've spoken with people directly connected with this topic, but you just keep going with your opinion, you're entitled to it. The court of public opinion....

"Some" erroneous writing? You mean ALL of it? That's some kind of flat earthing going on there.

Where is Ernie's tongue on rollingstones.com? There's only one tongue on the site and it's the one used on practically every album that was created by Pasche and tweaked by Braun that Cefalu acknowledges is not his, he admits that he based his on the drawing Pasche had done. Ernie's logo has never been used on an album or a website, just merch, which he even has said. Ernie says he likes Pasche's logo better than his!

He's oblivious to what Braun did with Pasche's original, though, which is known as the 'new' logo - he says it in this video.

[www.youtube.com]



So, who do you think is erroneous? For some reason, you seem to be, as I recall, the only one that insists that the Braun tweaked 'new' logo of the Pasche original logo is Ernie's when Ernie himself says it's not his.

Re: Best Tongue Design
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: May 28, 2019 18:04


[therollingstonesshop.com]


Part of the Vintage T-Shirt Capsule, this design was originally launched on merchandise surrounding the release of Sticky Fingers and is silk screened onto a pepper vintage washed t-shirt. Limited Edition.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: May 29, 2019 02:12


Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 29, 2019 05:54

It's the best band logo in the history of band logos, and it was born at an art school in London.

Thursday the band recirculated a video about the tongue and lips creator, Jon Pasche. Pasche was at the Royal College of Art when he was asked to work on a tour poster for the band's 1970 European Tour, and his design won over Mick Jagger.


[931jackfm.radio.com]

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: May 29, 2019 06:04

Agree. The Pasche Tongue is the original, as well as my favorite.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 29, 2019 07:33

I recall the previous thread regarding the origins the tongue with all debates and heated exchanges, and found it here: First designer of Stones Tongue & Lips logo???

And what I remember most from that thread though are these two posts from Irix:

Quote
Irix
The Beatles Songbook by Alan Aldridge - these are the pages 110-111 of the First Edition from 1969:



It's a question of the perspective, whether the similarity of the Stones' Tongue&Lips logo is a coincidence or not ....

Quote
Irix
Direct comparison:



Left: Alan Aldridge Illustration 1969 - Right: Tongue&Lips logo, Sticky Fingers 1st US-Edition 1971

Surely this can't be a coincidence as the similarities are clear as day, and looks to me like the Beatles were first again.
As I stated in that earlier thread: "After seeing the above it seems obvious the tongue design originated with Alan Aldridge".

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: May 29, 2019 08:43

Quote
Hairball
I recall the previous thread regarding the origins the tongue with all debates and heated exchanges, and found it here: First designer of Stones Tongue & Lips logo???

And what I remember most from that thread though are these two posts from Irix:

Quote
Irix
The Beatles Songbook by Alan Aldridge - these are the pages 110-111 of the First Edition from 1969:



It's a question of the perspective, whether the similarity of the Stones' Tongue&Lips logo is a coincidence or not ....

Quote
Irix
Direct comparison:



Left: Alan Aldridge Illustration 1969 - Right: Tongue&Lips logo, Sticky Fingers 1st US-Edition 1971

Surely this can't be a coincidence as the similarities are clear as day, and looks to me like the Beatles were first again.
As I stated in that earlier thread: "After seeing the above it seems obvious the tongue design originated with Alan Aldridge".

Yep Hairball,
Irix's statement on AA is very catchy and there is indeed a "connection" with Braun, but not with Pasche, however. It appears to be somewhat sensitive, but the coincidence lays in the USA. AA did in fact do some work in connection with the Rolling Stones Rock 'm' Roll Circus project (tiger image, apparently not used) while still in the UK, before he moved to the USA.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: May 29, 2019 13:30

Quote
Hairball

And what I remember most from that thread though are these two posts from Irix:

For the sake of correctness: the hint to Alan Aldridge came actually from the post by bmuseed on 26-Nov-2014 - [iorr.org] . I did only the graphical comparison and the re-check with the Book-Edition from 1969 ....

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: May 29, 2019 20:01

Quote
Irix
Quote
Hairball

And what I remember most from that thread though are these two posts from Irix:

For the sake of correctness: the hint to Alan Aldridge came actually from the post by bmuseed on 26-Nov-2014 - [iorr.org] . I did only the graphical comparison and the re-check with the Book-Edition from 1969 ....

thumbs up

Then it was the post by bmused, in addition to your two posts, that I remember most from that thread.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-05-29 20:02 by Hairball.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: June 1, 2019 11:58

Braun may have talked to "bmuseed" at some point (so he "came up" with that Beatles idea), because Braun is the "emotional" link. The work on the "USA logo" took place late 1970 at Braun's company, based on a poor (black and white) telefax scan of John Pasche's logo, sent that same year from the UK.
It would, however, surprise me if Braun was in touch with "bmuseed" at that time, because Rolling Stones Records was already a fact (with Marshall Chess as president, and Marshall introduced Braun for the design of the Sticky Fingers album) and ABKCO was "on the black list" of the Stones and Braun was aware of that.

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: June 1, 2019 13:10


Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: June 1, 2019 14:25

Quote
georgie48

Braun may have talked to "bmuseed" at some point (so he "came up" with that Beatles idea), because Braun is the "emotional" link.

Possible if bmuseed is really this person ....

Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: June 1, 2019 15:39

Quote
Irix
Quote
georgie48

Braun may have talked to "bmuseed" at some point (so he "came up" with that Beatles idea), because Braun is the "emotional" link.

Possible if bmuseed is really this person ....

Indeed Irix, I was assuming that winking smiley (also because bmuseed has been "promoting" his books frequently on this site).

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