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Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 27, 2018 01:13

A joy to read, Rocky - great stuff! thumbs up

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 27, 2018 01:44

Thanks, Bard. I appreciate the kind words of encouragement.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: September 27, 2018 03:38

Flip The Switch 7/10
Anybody Seen My baby 10/10
Low Down 8/10
Already Over Me 1/10
Gunface 1/10
You Dont have To Mean It 1/10
Out Of Control 0/10
Saint Of Me 1/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 1/10
Always Suffering 1/10
Too Tight 7/10
Thief In The Night 7/10
How Can I Stop 7/10

Artwork: even lower than the lowest of Iron Maiden covers. I used to like the previous, taut, 'design' covers (Steel Wheels, Flashpoint, Emotional Rescue) but as of Bridges their sense of artwork is strangely lacking.

Of course, I forgot Anyway You Look At It, 10/10



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-27 23:09 by SomeGuy.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: September 27, 2018 10:18

For instance:

Flip The Switch 7/10
Anybody Seen My baby 8,5/10
Low Down 8/10
Already Over Me 6,5/10
Gunface 1/10
You Dont have To Mean It 4,5/10
Out Of Control 5,5/10
Saint Of Me 8,5/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 8,5/10
Always Suffering 9,5/10
Too Tight 8/10
Thief In The Night 7,5/10
How Can I Stop 7,5/10

Edit: "Always Suffering" heightened from 9 to 9,5!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-27 10:29 by Witness.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: September 27, 2018 11:00

- Flip The Switch 6/10 Potentially, it could have been great but somehow the production is too tinny, it lacks a warm groove

- Anybody Seen My baby 7/10 One of the few times the latter era Stones go out of their comfort zone and bring something acceptable

- Low Down 5/10 Filler

- Already Over Me 4/10 Unnecessary ballad

- Gunface 3/10 Too much based on the guitar gimmick and little else

- You Dont have To Mean It 7/10 Nice, one their better reggae attempts.

- Out Of Control 6/10 It's not original at all, but it works

- Saint Of Me 7/10 It's okay, which is as much as you can expect from the latter day Stones. I like the Ron Wood licks in the chorus

- Might As Well Get Juiced 1/10 I sure as hell would like to hear the version without the electronic Dr. Who noises. Is it possible that this song potentially could have been at least acceptable?

- Always Suffering 2/10 See Already Over Me (it reminds me of the Aerosmith Amaaazing, Craaazy, Cryyying copy/paste thing)

- Too Tight 2/10 Since Undercover, they occasionally turn out these dumb Status Quo rockers, a blemish on their groovy past

- Thief In The Night 9/10 Yeah! One of those "not going anywhere" songs by Keith, which is why some people don't like it, but I think it's just perfect where it is, so it doesn't need to go anywhere.

- How Can I Stop 5/10 It's kind of interesting how some people prefer Thief and others prefer How Can I Stop. They are very similar, but somehow this one I find less entertaining.

- Anyway You Look At It 9/10 An absolute mystery why they didn't put this on the album. One of the best ballads they made (not just of their latter days, but in their entire career)


The artwork, as said by many others before, is of course absolutely horrible. Only A Bigger Bang is worse. I cannot understand it. Either they just don't think it's important to have a reasonably nice cover in the CD (and post-CD) era or ... what? Maybe they think "it's ugly so that must mean it's art"?

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 27, 2018 11:24

I've probably done this before, but...

Flip The Switch 7/10
Anybody Seen My baby 8/10
Low Down 7/10
Already Over Me 8/10
Gunface 2/10
You Dont have To Mean It 7/10
Out Of Control 7/10
Saint Of Me 6/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 5/10
Always Suffering 7/10
Too Tight 5/10
Thief In The Night 7/10
How Can I Stop 10/10

Any Way You Look At It 9/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: GetYerAngie ()
Date: September 27, 2018 16:36

Flip The Switch 7/10
Anybody Seen My baby 9/10
Low Down 7/10
Already Over Me 8/10
Gunface 5/10
You Dont have To Mean It 3/10
Out Of Control 9/10
Saint Of Me 10/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 5/10
Always Suffering 6/10
Too Tight 9/10
Thief In The Night 2/10
How Can I Stop 4/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: wandering spirit ()
Date: September 27, 2018 17:48

Flip The Switch 9/10
Anybody Seen My baby 9/10
Low Down 7/10
Already Over Me 8/10
Gunface 8/10
You Dont have To Mean It 6/10
Out Of Control 10/10
Saint Of Me 9/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 3/10
Always Suffering 2/10
Too Tight 7/10
Thief In The Night 2/10
How Can I Stop 2/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 27, 2018 17:58

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I truly adore "Flip the Switch." The late Jeff Sarli was a natural fit. I place this among the great album tracks. Perfect in every way. Killer one-liners that show the influence of hardboiled pulp thrillers (as would the title, but not the lyrics, to "Rough Justice"). Yet another example of the near-telepathic guitar/drum interplay of Keith and Charlie at their best. The pairing of Charlie and Jim Keltner proved inspired, particularly as they never step on one another as Charlie and Ollie Brown often did.

I enjoy "Anybody Seen My Baby" except for the dreadful Biz Markie sample. Attempts to render this awkward bridge live with Bernard were even worse. The "No Biz" mix is preferable, but unfortunately considerably shorter than the LP version. One day, perhaps, this lamentable error in judgement will be corrected and we'll have a reissue I can truly love. Whoever had the idea to put Waddy's solo at the end instead of as the bridge (The Dust Brothers, I imagine) deserves kudos. A shame the Stones never showed such thinking outside traditonal arrangements since then.

I like "Low Down." It doesn't quite live up to its potential, but it works well enough. I can't help thinking this needed more work to make it truly special when they appear to have been satisfied with aiming lower and just running through the motions to finish the song. As with VOODOO LOUNGE, some of the material sounds like it would better suit the Winos, but that's part of accepting how Mick and Keith grew apart creatively.

I really enjoy "Already Over Me." A rare latterday ballad from Mick. I don't think I'd want to hear the Babyface version. Mick's vocals here are quite effective and show Barry Gibb's influence (by way of Marvin Gaye) for the first time since "Tops." Lovely and understated, lyrically and musically.

I love "GunFace" apart from the dumb anime-style title. "Gun in Your Face" would have been much better. I do think that sequencing was a challenge for this album and even moreso for A BIGGER BANG. Great, nasty lyrics and a guitar/drum assault that matches. The dual impact of Charlie and Keltner again works wonderfully.

I enjoy "You Don't Have To Mean It." It never reaches the sublime brilliance of "Too Rude," but it's infectious and joyful despite the cynicism and genuine pain in the lyrics. I would have loved to have heard the Tex-Mex arrangement as well as the demo Rob Fraboni cut in Jamaica with the Winos and the Wingless Angels.

"Out of Control" is simply amazing, but the full-length Danny Saber mix is much better complete with a percussive coda that recalls "Time Waits for No One" and "Feel On, Baby." The moody vocalizing recalls The Faces' arrangement of "Losing You" while the spirit of "Papa was a Rolling Stone" looms large over the verses. If the chorus really was Reeves Gabrels on the demo, it's a pity he never had a chance to sit in with the band for this number live. The Don Was monitor mix without audience noise from Madison Square Garden is also very good and makes me wonder whether a live album of monitor mixes would have worked. You would have to lose Mick's between song patter, but you'd have the equivalent of one-take performances with no distraction and actual chemistry.

"Saint of Me" is also a joy. A comparison of the live versions with the studio version would make me swear Keith is playing on the studio track despite the credits. Regardless, I love the results. The loss of vinyl meant that listeners failed to appreciate how this and "Out of Control" mark the end of one side the same way "Thief in the Night" and "How Can I Stop" do the other by blending into one another. While effective, I prefer to hear the full-length Danny Saber mix of "Out of Control" which means opting for the single version of "Saint of Me" that doesn't open with "Out of Control" fading out. Again, this would be an improvement on a future reissue. It's possible, considering they gave us a superior version of "Sex Drive" when they reissued FLASHPOINT.

"Juiced" is a missed opportunity. Prior to the album's release, I heard a bit of the track as prepared by Don Was and Ed Cherney before The Dust Brothers put their synthesized fingerprint smudges all over it. Left as a genuine evocation of Delta Blues this would have been a highlight. As it is, it dates badly and doesn't hold up. Perhaps a future reissue can restore the Don Was version and undo the damage. Keith certainly wanted that version released and I don't mean the fake techno mixes that circulated on bootleg.

"Always Suffering" is really nice. This, "Already Over Me," and the B-side "Any Way You Look At it" really show what we miss by not giving Mick better ballads than sad, bad, smart, fart, shit, tit lyrics like he served himself up on A BIGGER BANG and, even worse, on "Following the River." I'll pause and let everyone picture the river holding hands with the sea and let Mick make my point himself. "Always Suffering" shows how well the band and Mick can do with traditional ballads.

"Too Tight" is a last stab at greatness. A nice memory of BETWEEN THE BUTTONS pop-rockers in the same fashion that the Winos revived "Connection." Jeff Sarli again proves how good he was with Keith and Charlie. The real loss on the album is Ronnie, though there were legitimate reasons for his limited input. I would have preferred Waddy and Keith had been given full freedom on the album with so little Ronnie in evidence. Much as I appreciate Jeff Sarli (next best thing to Joey Spaminato) as an alternative to the great Bill Wyman, it's a pity Darryl (who was so solid throughout VOODOO LOUNGE) has little to do here. The lyrics here have a great mid-sixties sneer tempered (maybe distempered) with age. Wonderful stuff.

"Thief in the Night" is, honestly, dull as was too much of CROSSEYED HEART to me. Not a bad song. The playing is fine. It just sounds like Keith and the band are feeling mellow in a self-medicated way and ready to nod off. The song lacks any transcendent moments of jazz and is content to simply serve as musical opium sending the listener off to slumberland with the singer and band.

"How Can I Stop" is, despite the cleverly edited blend with the previous song, everything "Thief in the Night" isn't. This is jazz, thanks in no small part to the drumming, the wonderful percussive coda, and Wayne Shorter's master musicianship. It has all the same qualities that pull down "Thief in the Night" but is bolstered by touches that take you higher.

"Any Way You Look At It," though seemingly a slight B-side, is really a perfect cap the capper for the album and should have followed "How Can I Stop." Nice echo of "As Tears Go By." Fun reference to Keith's Point of View retreat (just as he did in "Make No Mistake"). Sure they could knock these ballads off easily, but I enjoy them. It deserved to be on the album.

I always considered "Saint of Me" the opening cut for Side 2.
And I don't quite understand the Waddy wachtel guitar comment. It's an overdub in the outro; that follows the vocal melody. I don't get it re. the bridge. Was it originally recorded as a break, and then they moved it?
Really good review. It is weird - I agree almost 100 %. I think I like B2B even more. Only 'Gunface" leaves me a bit cold. (LOve "Gun" on Goddess though)

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 27, 2018 20:13

I used to think of "Saint of Me" as starting Side 2, but if you go to the track you hear the fade out of "Out of Control" blending into the opening notes. That wouldn't be possible if it were the start of a separate side, so I think of the two songs as the mirror of "Thief in the Night" and "How Can I Stop" which likewise blend into one another when the first fades out.

RE: Waddy's solo, I was pointing out the uniqueness of having the guitar solo at the end of the song. The break is where it is traditionally placed (whether guitar or saxophone) in Stones songs. In this case, the break is some weird synthesizer noise which sounds suspiciously empty on the "No Biz" mix, but is still preferable to having the goofy rap sample sandwiched in there. I realize "How Can I Stop" has a sax break at the end followed by the percussive coda, but that doesn't seem the same to me. The likely reason being the sax break is improvised while Waddy's guitar solo is finding the melody, something that hadn't really happened on a Stones song since Mr. Taylor's era.

Palace Revolution 2000, I've always enjoyed your posts. I wish you hadn't told me about your enjoying "Gun" on GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY. Now I have to tell my wife to take you off the Christmas card list.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: September 28, 2018 04:38

Flip The Switch 9/10
Anybody Seen My baby 6/10
Low Down 7/10
Already Over Me 0/10
Gunface 0/10
You Don't Have To Mean It 10/10
Out Of Control 5/10
Saint Of Me 6/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 0/10
Always Suffering 0/10
Too Tight 6/10
Thief In The Night 10/10
How Can I Stop 10/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 28, 2018 06:54

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I used to think of "Saint of Me" as starting Side 2, but if you go to the track you hear the fade out of "Out of Control" blending into the opening notes. That wouldn't be possible if it were the start of a separate side, so I think of the two songs as the mirror of "Thief in the Night" and "How Can I Stop" which likewise blend into one another when the first fades out.

RE: Waddy's solo, I was pointing out the uniqueness of having the guitar solo at the end of the song. The break is where it is traditionally placed (whether guitar or saxophone) in Stones songs. In this case, the break is some weird synthesizer noise which sounds suspiciously empty on the "No Biz" mix, but is still preferable to having the goofy rap sample sandwiched in there. I realize "How Can I Stop" has a sax break at the end followed by the percussive coda, but that doesn't seem the same to me. The likely reason being the sax break is improvised while Waddy's guitar solo is finding the melody, something that hadn't really happened on a Stones song since Mr. Taylor's era.

Palace Revolution 2000, I've always enjoyed your posts. I wish you hadn't told me about your enjoying "Gun" on GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY. Now I have to tell my wife to take you off the Christmas card list.

Haha..and I was inches away from a clean getaway. I only added the 'Gun' thing as an afterthought. With me it has always been that just ONE tiny ingredient of a song can sway my whole notion of it. Like on 'Gun", it's not the song itself, but it is the way the snare comes galloping in. It kind of skips in, and it also is coming up from lower volume. Just LOVE it. Is that enough to get back on the list?

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: September 28, 2018 10:35

Flip The Switch 7/10
Anybody Seen My baby 6/10
Low Down 2/10
Already Over Me 0/10
Gunface 0/10
You Don't Have To Mean It 3/10
Out Of Control 4/10
Saint Of Me 4/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 0/10
Always Suffering 0/10
Too Tight 2/10
Thief In The Night 10/10
How Can I Stop 4/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: guyrachel ()
Date: September 28, 2018 13:56

Flip The Switch 5/10
Anybody Seen My baby 7/10
Low Down 4/10
Already Over Me 7/10
Gunface 8/10
You Dont have To Mean It 3/10
Out Of Control 6/10
Saint Of Me 7/10
Might As Well Get Juiced 9/10
Always Suffering 9,5/10
Too Tight 7/10
Thief In The Night 4/10
How Can I Stop 7,5/10

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Wild Slivovitz ()
Date: September 28, 2018 14:20

Great record. When I listened to it the first time I was amazed how fresh it sounded. I even love the artwork!

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: grzegorz67 ()
Date: September 28, 2018 14:25

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Great record. When I listened to it the first time I was amazed how fresh it sounded. I even love the artwork!

I liked it too. Great Stage and Tour also. Saint of Me and OOC both worked very well live, imho.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: JumpinJimF ()
Date: September 28, 2018 16:33

Was inspired by this thread to listen to the album through again on a good hifi at a decent volume.

Overall the sound is good (I got the CD when it came out), but somehow not quite a Stones sound.

Some pretty good songs on here (e.g. Flip The Switch, Anybody Seen My Baby, You Don't Have To Mean It, Out Of Control, Saint Of Me, How Can I Stop) but quite a few which aren't so memorable. And the good songs will never be as good as...

I don't hate it, but I'd almost always want to listen to something else.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 28, 2018 16:38

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I only added the 'Gun' thing as an afterthought. With me it has always been that just ONE tiny ingredient of a song can sway my whole notion of it. Like on 'Gun", it's not the song itself, but it is the way the snare comes galloping in. It kind of skips in, and it also is coming up from lower volume. Just LOVE it. Is that enough to get back on the list?

Well, you've made me want to play "Gun" to re-evaluate the snare drum. I'm not sure why the song always bugs me. I think it's Matt's synthesizer combined with Pete's guitar effects.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 28, 2018 16:47

Sounds like a wah-wah, a 12 string acoustic and a Strat through a Fender amp to me - pretty clean.

Matt, however...

Darn, why did I put this on?!! grinning smiley

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: September 28, 2018 18:25

There's worse than Gun on Goddess i/t Doorway, and also the odd song that is actually better. I like the guitar sound alright, and the chorus makes it almost a good one.
But that's a whole nuther thread really...

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 28, 2018 23:21

It is a whole other thread, but I don't think Bard has started SOLO ALBUM TALK yet.

And no, "Gun" is not the worst thing on GODDESS. "Joy" is worse despite my fondness for Pete's guitar on that one. "Visions of Paradise" is worse. The rest are all better than "Gun," though.

And that's another terrible title. Why not "Get a Gun" since it makes more sense. It's like titling JJF, "Flash."

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: September 29, 2018 01:29

For a good laugh check da Dust Bros Babylon stories
in the bonus section of Disc-5 in the Just For The Record DVD set .....

Great insight into the recording of Bridges ..... The Dust Bros
give esp HIGH praise to Mick but have a battle remembering bass
players and neighbours...hhhhhaaa and tell that although there
was a Mick & Keith camp everybody got along fine but do admit there
were some juicy stories that they just cant tell …. damn it !!!!

Their Keith studio story is a screeeeeeeeeem …….




Well worth watching ….



ROCKMAN

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: September 29, 2018 02:22

My version of Bridges would absolutely take out the Biz Markie sample. Beyond that, I'm good with it. Like with all their albums and as I posted on the "Voodoo Lounge Album Talk", my memories of Bridges to Babylon are tied to it being just the way it is. For me "Saint of Me" is the best, most durable original song on the album. It might have been "Out of Control", if not for the fact that OOC is waaaaaaaay too close to "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" which takes away some of its punch for being so derivative, though it's fantastic live.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: September 29, 2018 17:33

Quote
Rocky Dijon
It is a whole other thread, but I don't think Bard has started SOLO ALBUM TALK yet.

And no, "Gun" is not the worst thing on GODDESS. "Joy" is worse despite my fondness for Pete's guitar on that one. "Visions of Paradise" is worse. The rest are all better than "Gun," though.

And that's another terrible title. Why not "Get a Gun" since it makes more sense. It's like titling JJF, "Flash."

I was merely trying to say that I realize that the thread is about Bridges To Babylon, not Goddess In The Doorway, because most often we will get reminded to stick to the subject here anyway.
Goddess In The Doorway has one great aspect to it: it makes all other projects Mick Jagger did sound brilliant! Ok, seriously, I like only the song that he did with Lenny Kravitz and the last track, and there was some 'B-side' material that wasnt too bad. The Bono collaboration is the most horrible endeavour, and that is not even only Bono's fault...

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 29, 2018 18:06

I have a serious mental block in staying on topic. I think my posts follow a logical thread, but I'm a bit all over the map. However, Bjornulf tolerates me and only occassionally deletes entire threads because of me.

As for GODDESS, I still love "Hideaway" and "Too Far Gone" and wish both had made their way to A BIGGER BANG. Admittedly, "Hideaway" and "Rain Fall Down" might have been a funk too far for Keith.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: September 29, 2018 18:23

It’s embarrassing to write on this creative, knowledgeable thread in my little patter, but thank you contributors.

The ‘sound’ didn't pull me in. Later day studio albums (which means after 1981)
my heart plucks 2-3 and I tend to saturate those tunes.
‘Out of Control’ REMASTERED ironically, is very different than original release.
Lastly, I dig the male Lion. Thanks IORRfriends for pictures and laughs.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 29, 2018 18:34

They're all just opinions, 35love and no one's carry more weight than the others. Threads are strongest when more of us post different views.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 29, 2018 19:37

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I have a serious mental block in staying on topic. I think my posts follow a logical thread, but I'm a bit all over the map. However, Bjornulf tolerates me and only occassionally deletes entire threads because of me.

As for GODDESS, I still love "Hideaway" and "Too Far Gone" and wish both had made their way to A BIGGER BANG. Admittedly, "Hideaway" and "Rain Fall Down" might have been a funk too far for Keith.
Haha,, arrgh! Rocky I love every thing you say usually, but man do we disagree on 'Goddess'. "Too Far Gone" and "Hideawy" are the two songs I hate the most on GITD.Oh yes and that dreadful "Visions of Paradise".
Hmm, can we agree that "dancing in the Starlight" is a wonderful song though?

And I think a major thread on Solo albums is a GREAT idea.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: September 29, 2018 20:00

I like "Dancing in the Starlight" well enough. Just slightly more than "Blue." That said, we agree that the awful truth is really sad, we must admit "Visions of Paradise" is awful bad.

Re: ALBUM TALK: Bridges To Babylon
Date: September 29, 2018 20:25

"Threads are strongest when more of us post different views." (Rocky)

Well said

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