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DandelionPowderman
But there is no «dangerous voice» on Flip The Switch?

Not like in LIS. But to some extent...it is. It works better because he isn't trying too hard.

Where I in much of the preceding liked Dandelion's points of view, here I have to admit that I cannot follow either of you. In passing then towards your exchange of views, I only remark: Rather than finding Mick's voice dangerous on "Love Is Strong", I simply hear it as highly emotionally compelling in a most attractive way. That is then to me the thrill on this extra-musical level of this beautifully fresh song.

I'm just talking about the impact of how his voice sounds, not the combination of his voice and the words he sings. That combination surely gives the emotional impression you describe. So, the form is dangerous, while the contents give more of a longing emotional impact.

Did that make sense?

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
But there is no «dangerous voice» on Flip The Switch?

Not like in LIS. But to some extent...it is. It works better because he isn't trying too hard.

Where I in much of the preceding liked Dandelion's points of view, here I have to admit that I cannot follow either of you. In passing then towards your exchange of views, I only remark: Rather than finding Mick's voice dangerous on "Love Is Strong", I simply hear it as highly emotionally compelling in a most attractive way. That is then to me the thrill on this extra-musical level of this beautifully fresh song.

I'm just talking about the impact of how his voice sounds, not the combination of his voice and the words he sings. That combination surely gives the emotional impression you describe. So, the form is dangerous, while the contents give more of a longing emotional impact.

Did that make sense?

Delayed answer, due to a lunch break:
To some extent, yes!

Anyway you look at it: Love Is Strong is a great song, one of their best and I love Mick´s dark and mysterious vocal-approach. Flip The Switch is also great. Dancing With Mr. D.? - No, not great, just mediocre.

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Wild Slivovitz
"Honest Man" is another one.

That one isn't on the boots I have so I forgot about it.

However, it's not... even barely good, really. It IS just a revamp of Sweet Thing! And Mick says 'danger zone'... really bad.

Honest Man has a nice groove. I don't have any Jagger solo so not really familiar with Sweet Thing. Does Keith play guitar on Honest Man, I always thought so?

A nice groove is irrelevant when a song sucks. Honest Man sucks. It sounds like a goddamned Kenny Loggins song. It's HORRIBLE.

Mick on guitar on HM.

Irrelevant! SUCKS!

The song or the information

Probably more so the song...

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

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Wild Slivovitz
"Honest Man" is another one.

That one isn't on the boots I have so I forgot about it.

However, it's not... even barely good, really. It IS just a revamp of Sweet Thing! And Mick says 'danger zone'... really bad.

Honest Man has a nice groove. I don't have any Jagger solo so not really familiar with Sweet Thing. Does Keith play guitar on Honest Man, I always thought so?

A nice groove is irrelevant when a song sucks. Honest Man sucks. It sounds like a goddamned Kenny Loggins song. It's HORRIBLE.

Cool out, man. If you have a conniption fit over a song that didn’t even make the album you must really flip out over a lot of the ones that did. Besides, Honest Man is only half bad which is ‘great’ in DandelionPowderman's world. Sounds like Charlie on guitar though.

You think that's a conniption fit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Pleeeeeease. I've said as much and more about released songs...

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

There is just as much consensus on Love Is Strong and The Worst being very good tracks as that of One Hit - maybe much more.

The Worst probably is The Best but c’mon – it’s a minor song, not even as good as Eileen, and the fact that a Keith Richards sung tune is the highlight of the album is the final proof of Voodoo Lounge’s shame.

Love Is Strong? It pushes all the right Stonesy buttons, I grant you that, but like Rough Justice is quickly forgotten because it's a rather shameless second-rate rehash of an old formula. One Hit and Sleep Tonight at least have staying power, in part because they’re not the least bit evocative of earlier Stones classics.

Eh, I guess you missed the reviews that instantly compared One Hit to Street Fighting Man simply because of the acoustic intro... and Sleep Tonight, while being a nice song, is just a rip off - an exact copy - of the bridge from Coming Down. Sure, Love Is Strong is just Wicked As It Seems but at least it's good. It's not great, true, but it's got a bit of an attitude to it that works.

Not live though. Live it was horrendous.

Er, no, I don’t recall any reviews that noted similarities between One Hit and Street Fighting Man but were you to show me one I would dismiss it as incredible nonsense. On the other hand, I do recall the Sleep Tonight/Coming Down Again connection. Still, neither One Hit nor Sleep Tonight (the latter’s unoriginal aspects notwithstanding) sound like obvious attempts to repackage that classic Stones sound the way Love Is Strong so shamelessly does. Which isn’t to say I think One Hit is a masterpiece, I don’t even care for it that much, but to me they weren’t pandering to the masses when they wrote it and thus I value it more.

The reviews - it may have been in Rolling Stone - spoke of the acoustic being some kind of throwback or harkening to Street Fighting Man. Of course it's convenient to say that because of the acoustic guitar. The key is the same but... that was the only part. Not the song. There was no holding the song up to SFM in any way and they didn't do that. But it did give the impression that they were lifting from the past. But as you pointed out One Hit and Sleep Tonight don't have anything evocative from past classics.

That style of riffing from Keith with One Hit, there's a lineage to that open G in A songs... Hand Of Fate being the first one but it really starts going with One Hit, it continues with Wicked As It Seems, which leads to Love Is Strong, which then goes on to Lowdown and finally It Won't Take Long and Dangerous Beauty.

There's no other Stones song that has the riff Start Me Up uses as well as how the riff in Brown Sugar is used - but there are a few other songs that have similar 4th fills in them, like Highwire and Sad Sad Sad. But songs like Hand Of Fate could easily be seen as the grandfather of the Open G in A songs like One Hit etc...

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

Sounds like Ronnie doing a Keith impression to me. I always thought this was a good example of Keith and Ronnie weaving the electric guitars. And yes Ronnie is credited with electric and acoustic guitar on this track as is Keith.

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

Sounds like Ronnie doing a Keith impression to me. I always thought this was a good example of Keith and Ronnie weaving the electric guitars. And yes Ronnie is credited with electric and acoustic guitar on this track as is Keith.

The fluidity of some guitar lines in Love Is Strong seem like Ronnie to me, since Keith has no fluidity to his playing like that. Hence it being Ronnie. Ronnie is credited on it - they've been good about getting their own credits right, it's everyone else they screw up.

It's not Ronnie. And those licks, lasting two seconds max every time, is pure Keith (and not very fluently played)

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

Sounds like Ronnie doing a Keith impression to me. I always thought this was a good example of Keith and Ronnie weaving the electric guitars. And yes Ronnie is credited with electric and acoustic guitar on this track as is Keith.

The fluidity of some guitar lines in Love Is Strong seem like Ronnie to me, since Keith has no fluidity to his playing like that. Hence it being Ronnie. Ronnie is credited on it - they've been good about getting their own credits right, it's everyone else they screw up.

Yes I agree, there of course are videos of Ronnie playing those Keith like lines, it's not like they were difficult to play or anything and Ronnie has played enough with Keith he could probably do a pretty good imitation of him at any given time. Besides how often do we get Keith playing a strat?

Listened through the whole song now. If Ronnie plays on it it has to be on acoustic only.

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Naturalust

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

Sounds like Ronnie doing a Keith impression to me. I always thought this was a good example of Keith and Ronnie weaving the electric guitars. And yes Ronnie is credited with electric and acoustic guitar on this track as is Keith.

The fluidity of some guitar lines in Love Is Strong seem like Ronnie to me, since Keith has no fluidity to his playing like that. Hence it being Ronnie. Ronnie is credited on it - they've been good about getting their own credits right, it's everyone else they screw up.

Yes I agree, there of course are videos of Ronnie playing those Keith like lines, it's not like they were difficult to play or anything and Ronnie has played enough with Keith he could probably do a pretty good imitation of him at any given time. Besides how often do we get Keith playing a strat?

Yeah... that's a part of it. Dande thinks Ronnie only plays acoustic, I hear some Ronnie on electric... both Keith and Ronnie are credited to acoustic and electric...

And to think, considering how Ronnie is kicked around in the Stones - does anyone really think he'd get credit for something he didn't do????? HELL NO!

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Naturalust

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
"don't stop" is shameless. "love is strong" is just lazy.

"trouble" has much more going on and is more interesting, although it is also a relatively simple song.

i actually think trouble is better than any single from the stones since "harlem shuffle".

Well, for fulfilling a single's purpose I'd say that LIS, Anybody Seen My Baby and Saint Of Me are better. However, the two latter don't really sound like the Stones, and there aren't many band members playing a lot on them, either.

Love Is Strong is all Keith, Mick and Charlie. They usually give me the sound I like – and those guitars (I know Ronnie is credited on some sites, but none of the electric guitars are him) and drums sure sound like the real Stones to me

Ronnie sounds like he's on LIS... he's got the bending lick right around 1:05. At least it sounds like him. But it does sound like it's all Keith. I always figured the bright clean guitars were Ronnie. I know they used several amps, some at the same time...

Absolutely not. Keith with a Strat.

Sounds like Ronnie doing a Keith impression to me. I always thought this was a good example of Keith and Ronnie weaving the electric guitars. And yes Ronnie is credited with electric and acoustic guitar on this track as is Keith.

The fluidity of some guitar lines in Love Is Strong seem like Ronnie to me, since Keith has no fluidity to his playing like that. Hence it being Ronnie. Ronnie is credited on it - they've been good about getting their own credits right, it's everyone else they screw up.

Yes I agree, there of course are videos of Ronnie playing those Keith like lines, it's not like they were difficult to play or anything and Ronnie has played enough with Keith he could probably do a pretty good imitation of him at any given time. Besides how often do we get Keith playing a strat?

Yeah... that's a part of it. Dande thinks Ronnie only plays acoustic, I hear some Ronnie on electric... both Keith and Ronnie are credited to acoustic and electric...

And to think, considering how Ronnie is kicked around in the Stones - does anyone really think he'd get credit for something he didn't do????? HELL NO!

There is an electric guitar coming in right before the bridge (between 2:10 and 2:12). If Ronnie plays electric on LIS, this is it. The only problem is that this overdub is even more sloppily played than both of Keith's guitar tracks (+ Keith's clean Strat overdub in the left channel).

So, if Ronnie plays those two notes you're right. Still, he's practically MIA on this track, as far as electric guitars go.

It's entirely possible Ronnie was playing the chunked electric rhythm comping in this song and adding a few fills like he tends to do. Not convinced it was all Keith. There are probably many more guitar tracks on this tune than the obvious ones.. We would probably all be surprised to learn the tune was mixed from a dozen or more separate electric guitar tracks made by both Keith and Ronnie.

I any case it's a great Stones tune with some awesome harp by Mick and cool guitar licks throughout, whoever played them.

This is what I love about IORR... the discussions at this level of depth about a song like Love Is Strong. Was a lot of fun waking up this morning and reading through all this!

As far as I know, from talking to some people, they had several amps slaved during some sessions so they could either fatten up something or have a bevy of choices for certain licks. And then of course there's the overdubbing.

Perhaps some of those Strat sounding tracks are Ronnie in places. Perhaps only a few notes of his playing was used (which wouldn't surprise me at all). Maybe he's credited as having played electric and acoustic on it but... it wasn't used for the LP mix.

The Bob Clearmountain mix has some different guitar lines in it. I used to be able to find it on youtube but everything I find is either the LP version or those stupid dance mixes.

It might very well be that Ronnie's electric wound up on Clearmountain's mix.

The clean-sounding Strat, which is overdubbed in the left channel in places, must be Keith. The phrasing and the hybrid chords is so him.

Well, I dunno. Sometimes Ronnie can sound just like Keith but not the other way around.

Reading the credits from A BIGGER BANG is entertaining. That was part of my point about why would they credit him for not doing something?

Back Of My Hand
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Mick Jagger
Electric guitar: Keith Richards
Slide electric guitar: Mick Jagger
Vocals: Mick Jagger
Harmonica: Mick Jagger
Percussion: Mick Jagger

This Place Is Empty
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Keith Richards
Acoustic guitars: Keith Richards
Slide acoustic guitar: Mick Jagger
Pianos: Keith Richards & Don Was
Lead vocal: Keith Richards
Backing vocals: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger

Dangerous Beauty
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Mick Jagger
Electric guitars: Keith Richards (incl. solo) & Mick Jagger
Vocals: Mick Jagger

Laugh, I Nearly Died
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Darryl Jones
Electric guitars: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger
Keyboards: Mick Jagger
Vocals: Mick Jagger
Percussion: Mick Jagger

Sweet Neo Con
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Mick Jagger
Electric guitars: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger
Vocals: Mick Jagger
Harmonica: Mick Jagger

Infamy
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Keith Richards
Electric & acoustic guitars: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger
Keyboards: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger
Lead vocals: Keith Richards
Backing vocals: Keith Richards & Mick Jagger
Harmonica: Mick Jagger
Percussion: Mick Jagger & Keith Richards

[timeisonourside.com]

nzentgraf has Blondie singing backing vocals on Infamy... but that's 6 songs without Ronnie! Why would they credit him on Love Is Strong but not credit him on New Faces or Brand New Car or Thru And Thru when... he didn't play anything?

You answered that yourself earlier. Possibly because he did play on it, but his electric didn't make the master. That has happened with several songs (Hang Fire, where Keith learned parts of Ronnie's solo and re-recorded it himself + Slave).

I don't think Ronnie ever could sound like Keith. It's not in his fingers, he can't make those sounds, don't have the same attack, not even when he's riffing in open tuning. It just sounds different. The SG Shattered solo might be the closest he ever got to sound Keith-ish, imo. But that one is buried way down in the mix...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-15 22:41 by DandelionPowderman.

funny, i always assumed the shattered solo was keith since, as you say, it sounds like him...

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DandelionPowderman
You answered that yourself earlier. Possibly because he did play on it, but his electric didn't make the master. That has happened with several songs (Hang Fire, where Keith learned parts of Ronnie's solo and re-recorded it himself + Slave).

From all I've seen Ronnie wasn't at the tracking sessions when Slave was recorded and they didn't do any overdubbing on it when he was there for the "guitar audition" sessions.

That's funny about Hang Fire. Eh, Keith - he does some strange shit.

There are occasions where Ronnie sounds like Keith. On SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER it's evident.

It's funny how the Shattered solo on the LP is very grating, Keith using as much treble as possible but live, at least for the most part until the BANG tour, Ronnie played it much better (the VOODOO tour was the best soloing I've ever heard anyway).

Ronnie's playing in the solo sounds like a combination of pedal steel in one pass, slide guitar on another and some squiddly do's on another.

There is a recent Voodoo Lounge appreciation thread on Shidoobee which is well worth reading as there are different interpretations as to whether the album was good bad or indifferent.

You Got Me Rocking is Stones-by-numbers filler. FILLER. What Mick said about the song says it all, which is surprising how he and Keith were a bit up about this snoozer of a track:

It started off as Keith playing the piano as sort of a slow, boogie-woogie blues. And the form was, like, just the same thing going round and round and round. You never knew whether you were singing the verse or the chorus. And it was very fluid, good fun and all that. But then, when we went to play it with the band, it was like, Well, am I singing the verse here or what? What's going on? Is this a chorus? Do we need another part? So we had to decide if we needed a bridge there, and if this was going to work. I want to know when I'm finished singing the verse! I've got to know! Otherwise, it all sounded the same. Ah, it doesn't matter, Keith would say. Well, it matters to ME! And, of course, he's right. And I'm right. We're BOTH right. So we transpose it from piano to guitar - I was playing the guitar, Keith is playing piano and singing. And then I started playing slide guitar, and it started to sound like Elmore James. And then back to something else. Finally I said, Keith, you've got to come off the piano and play guitar. I can't hear what's going on, there's too much racket! Then the song had to take on the band thing, with everybody playing, so you start to codify it a bit, where the chorus is and so on. And it STILL doesn't have a lyric, and I'm STILL messing with the melody. Keith had a couple of them he was using when he played. If it's going to be a rock song, it has to have a definite chorus and melody. So, I picked one. Maybe that's not how Keith remembers it, but that's how I remember it.

[www.rollingstone.com]

I wonder if that slow piano part is on Voodoo Brew or one of the other bootlegs from those sessions?

I think what you're talking about was done in Ireland at Ronnie's.

note to self...
do not come here and post about this fun stuff, it is the wrong place for that.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-08 23:00 by jambay.

Love Is Strong ***1/2
You Got Me Rocking ZERO
Sparks Will Fly ZERO
The Worst ****
New Faces *
Moon Is Up ***1/2
Out Of Tears ****
I Go Wild ***
Brand New Car ***
Sweethearts Together ZERO
Suck On The Jugular **1/2
Blinded By Rainbows *1/2
Baby Break It Down ***
Thru and Thru ***
Mean Disposition **1/2

note to self... and remember this time..
do not come here and post about this fun stuff, it is the wrong place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-08 23:01 by jambay.