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alimente

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KRiffhard
VL would have been a better album without Don Was 'The Anti-groove'.

Don Was is definitely anti-groove. Charlie and I worked on a lot of groove tunes that never made it on to the record. That was the one thing I was slightly disappointed by.

- Mick Jagger, May 1994

I don't buy this as an excuse. Jagger claiming that he did not have the final say? Nonsense. My guess is that the album did not develop into the direction Mick envisioned. It's an artistic/musical problem, not a problem of Don Was pushing the album into the wrong direction.

So Mick and Charlie "worked on a lot of groove things"? Fine. But obviously these "groove things" did not develop into suitable, releasable songs. Who's to blame? The producer? Don Was responsible for the songwriting department of the Stones? C'mon, Mick!

I mean, if "Suck On The Jugular", the only "groove thing" to speak of on the released album, is the best tune they could come up with, sounding more or less exactly like one of the "Sweet Thing" mixes on a Jagger solo CD single with new vocals, how bad must the other groove tunes they were working on actually be?

There are a few tracks that, as far as I know, were not finished, that had obvious potential of being better than a majority that is on the LP, which specifically are:

Hold On You
You Got It Made
Get It Made
Make It Now
It's Funny
Anything For You

Are these groove tracks? Compared to what's on the album, yeah, probably. Are they better? That's subjective, of course, but yes. Musically I find them more interesting than most of what's on the album. But for Mick to say he was disappointed but he was OK with recording You Got Me Rocking, Sparks Will Fly, New Faces and Sweethearts Together?

No reason to fully believe him. He's always made bizarre choices when it comes to what makes the albums - and what is left unfinished! It's clear that this outlook started in 1973 with GOATS HEAD SOUP and ramped up considerably with SOME GIRLS among a few others.

"Honest Man" is another one.

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Wild Slivovitz
"Honest Man" is another one.

Nice track, but perhaps a bit too similar to Sweet Thing?

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Wild Slivovitz
"Honest Man" is another one.

That one isn't on the boots I have so I forgot about it.

However, it's not... even barely good, really. It IS just a revamp of Sweet Thing! And Mick says 'danger zone'... really bad.

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HMS
Suck On The Jugular is an outstanding good track, to me it doesnt sound like Sweet Thing.

I wasn't talking about Sweet Thing - album version,but about one of the remixes on a Sweet Thing CD single - which sounds almost identical to the Suck On The Jugular instrumental track. It's quite obvious that Mick was in "recyclying-mode", creating a "new" Stones track by using a remix of his solo song "Sweet Thing".

It seems almost everything they recorded for VL sounds like Sweet Thing to some ears, not to mine.

I must have lost my ears long ago.

Honest Man could have been great if they had continued working on it. (And it doesnt sound a bit like Sweet Thing, does it?).

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HMS
It seems almost everything they recorded for VL sounds like Sweet Thing to some ears, not to mine.

I must have lost my ears long ago.

Honest Man could have been great if they had continued working on it. (And it doesnt sound a bit like Sweet Thing, does it?).

It's arrangement, and although I haven't checked but it sounds the same, key are way too similar. Which makes it sound like Sweet Thing.

Which it does.

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alimente

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HMS
Suck On The Jugular is an outstanding good track, to me it doesnt sound like Sweet Thing.

I wasn't talking about Sweet Thing - album version,but about one of the remixes on a Sweet Thing CD single - which sounds almost identical to the Suck On The Jugular instrumental track. It's quite obvious that Mick was in "recyclying-mode", creating a "new" Stones track by using a remix of his solo song "Sweet Thing".

That's as wicked as it seems...

It's hilarious - HILARIOUS! - how Keith took Wicked As It Seems and simplified it for the Stones!

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HMS
It seems almost everything they recorded for VL sounds like Sweet Thing to some ears, not to mine.

I must have lost my ears long ago.

Honest Man could have been great if they had continued working on it. (And it doesnt sound a bit like Sweet Thing, does it?).

Honest Man is, in a nutshell, just pedestrian bluesy riffing. I see why they did not work further on this one.

Concerning "Sweet Thing": Listen to either the "Funky Guitar Edit" or "Extended Sax Instrumental" and tell me that one of those is not "Suck On The Jugular"... I don't have the CD single at hand so I can't be more specific, but it's one of the two mentioned "Sweet Thing"-remixes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-13 18:26 by alimente.

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
It seems almost everything they recorded for VL sounds like Sweet Thing to some ears, not to mine.

I must have lost my ears long ago.

Honest Man could have been great if they had continued working on it. (And it doesnt sound a bit like Sweet Thing, does it?).

It's arrangement, and although I haven't checked but it sounds the same, key are way too similar. Which makes it sound like Sweet Thing.

Which it does.

Not to mention the melody/phrasing on the verses..

At least VOODOO had (has) a good sound, sonically. It's a good sounding record. It's a thousand times better than STEEL WHEELS and a million times better than DIRTY WORK.

It's not tape. DIRTY WORK was done on tape.

It could be the board. Possibly the mics. Possibly the rooms. The pre and post amp whatevers. There's so much that goes into how something sounds. But something was changed between 1989 at Air Studios and 1993 at Windmill Lane Recording.

Oh and I was wrong - TWO songs from Ronnie's house were used - both B-sides I'm Gonna Drive and Jump On Top Of Me. The rest is from Windmill.

By this standard, also "Heartstopper" should be considered as a revamp of "Sweethearts Together!

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Wild Slivovitz
By this standard, also "Heartstopper" should be considered as a revamp of "Sweethearts Together!

Oh hell NO!

Have not played it since 1995 and doubt I'll ever listen to VL again. Far too many better listening options in the Stones cannon to use time on this one.

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SuperC
Have not played it since 1995 and doubt I'll ever listen to VL again. Far too many better listening options in the Stones cannon to use time on this one.

That sums it up, doesn't it. I've got Love Is Strong, The Worst and I Go Wild on some playlists (and occasionally Out Of Tears). Otherwise it is basically a forgettable album.

I still listen to BRIDGES... although in a heavily edited way. I've not listened to VOODOO in years.

Mean Disposition, Moon Is Up and Brand New Car are good as well, imo.

Always preferred Sparks Will Fly and YGMR to I Go Wild, btw.

Mean Disposition --- 10
Moon Is Up ---- 10
Brand New Car ---- 10
Sparks Will Fly --- 8
YGMR ---- 8

gems, all of them are gems.
A hardly mentioned overlooked gem is Jump On Top Of Me. How could they put it on a b-side?

Yeah, Jump On Top, The Storm and I'm Gonna Drive are all very good.

There are some great keith's songs that Don Was didn't want to include.

Some of the outtakes of unreleased songs are just fantastique!

Sweet Thing would easily have been the best song on VL. Easily.


....ok Thru and Thru is pretty close.

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GasLightStreet
At least VOODOO had (has) a good sound, sonically. It's a good sounding record. It's a thousand times better than STEEL WHEELS and a million times better than DIRTY WORK.

It's not tape. DIRTY WORK was done on tape.

It could be the board. Possibly the mics. Possibly the rooms. The pre and post amp whatevers. There's so much that goes into how something sounds. But something was changed between 1989 at Air Studios and 1993 at Windmill Lane Recording.

Oh and I was wrong - TWO songs from Ronnie's house were used - both B-sides I'm Gonna Drive and Jump On Top Of Me. The rest is from Windmill.

I agree completely. Some great sounding stuff on VooDoo Lounge. The production didn't get in the way of the listening experience like it tended to do on SW and Dw. The mixes are super clear but you still get the great dirty guitars.

I still think however that one of the things that made those early records so great on the ears is somehow missing. Can't really put my finger on it but something less clear in the vocals (and other instruments) with lots of Mick harmonizing with himself and slightly buried in the mix. That classic Stones sound that is so immediately identifiable.

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HMS
Mean Disposition --- 10
Moon Is Up ---- 10
Brand New Car ---- 10
Sparks Will Fly --- 8
YGMR ---- 8

gems, all of them are gems.
A hardly mentioned overlooked gem is Jump On Top Of Me. How could they put it on a b-side?

Have you ever listened to the entire Stones catalog - to get some perspective?

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alimente

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HMS
Mean Disposition --- 10
Moon Is Up ---- 10
Brand New Car ---- 10
Sparks Will Fly --- 8
YGMR ---- 8

gems, all of them are gems.
A hardly mentioned overlooked gem is Jump On Top Of Me. How could they put it on a b-side?

Have you ever listened to the entire Stones catalog - to get some perspective?

Right, he might wanna do that, or you could start sifting through his ‘catalog’ and when it dawns on you that he champions the worst of the Rolling Stones cuz he gets his rocks off on your reaction give yourself a cookie.

Ironically, the only reason this album enjoys a better reputation than Dirty Work is because it’s so relentlessly bad. Whereas most people agree that One Hit, Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are pretty good tunes on an otherwise cruddy album there is absolutely no consensus on Voodoo Lounge’s highlights because, um, there aren’t any. So if some want to insist that Mean Disposition, Blinded By Rainbows, New Faces and Suck On The Jugular are the highlights, as some posters on this thread have, it’s hard to argue with them because as wretched as those songs are I can’t put together 4 different ones that are significantly less wretched.

Come to think of it, I rarely listened to the Stones in the 90s – it was the lost decade in my life as a Stones fan. It was only after they had more or less stopped recording, when expectations for a new banquet of fine music fell below zero, that I could return to fandom.

If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

There is just as much consensus on Love Is Strong and The Worst being very good tracks as that of One Hit - maybe much more.

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

There is just as much consensus on Love Is Strong and The Worst being very good tracks as that of One Hit - maybe much more.

The Worst probably is The Best but c’mon – it’s a minor song, not even as good as Eileen, and the fact that a Keith Richards sung tune is the highlight of the album is the final proof of Voodoo Lounge’s shame.

Love Is Strong? It pushes all the right Stonesy buttons, I grant you that, but like Rough Justice is quickly forgotten because it's a rather shameless second-rate rehash of an old formula. One Hit and Sleep Tonight at least have staying power, in part because they’re not the least bit evocative of earlier Stones classics.

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Swayed1967

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

There is just as much consensus on Love Is Strong and The Worst being very good tracks as that of One Hit - maybe much more.

The Worst probably is The Best but c’mon – it’s a minor song, not even as good as Eileen, and the fact that a Keith Richards sung tune is the highlight of the album is the final proof of Voodoo Lounge’s shame.

Love Is Strong? It pushes all the right Stonesy buttons, I grant you that, but like Rough Justice is quickly forgotten because it's a rather shameless second-rate rehash of an old formula. One Hit and Sleep Tonight at least have staying power, in part because they’re not the least bit evocative of earlier Stones classics.

Happy and Coming Down Again are also highlights on their respective albums. The former even was single #2.

When Love Is Strong was performed in Oslo in 1998, people went crazy. Same with Out Of Control on the last tour.

And How Can I Stop is high up on my list of their best songs ever, so there are some nuggets in there also among their 90s material.

I have no trouble with your general view on this, of course. But the one who don't listen won't find... etc.

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

.............................................

With that perspective in mind, one may argue that posters always are entitled to their own views, however, only to the extent that they have not stopped listening to the material they deliver their evaluation on.

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

.............................................

With that perspective in mind, one may argue that posters always are entitled to their own views, however, only to the extent that they have not stopped listening to the material they deliver their evaluation on.

Always entitled to your opinion, of course, but the fact that you haven't really listened a lot to something you criticise strongly might make your arguments more lightweight

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DandelionPowderman

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Swayed1967

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DandelionPowderman
If you rarely listen to something it certainly won't grow on you...

There is just as much consensus on Love Is Strong and The Worst being very good tracks as that of One Hit - maybe much more.

The Worst probably is The Best but c’mon – it’s a minor song, not even as good as Eileen, and the fact that a Keith Richards sung tune is the highlight of the album is the final proof of Voodoo Lounge’s shame.

Love Is Strong? It pushes all the right Stonesy buttons, I grant you that, but like Rough Justice is quickly forgotten because it's a rather shameless second-rate rehash of an old formula. One Hit and Sleep Tonight at least have staying power, in part because they’re not the least bit evocative of earlier Stones classics.

Happy and Coming Down Again are also highlights on their respective albums. The former even was single #2.

When Love Is Strong was performed in Oslo in 1998, people went crazy. Same with Out Of Control on the last tour.

And How Can I Stop is high up on my list of their best songs ever, so there are some nuggets in there also among their 90s material.

I have no trouble with your general view on this, of course. But the one who don't listen won't find... etc.

Happy and Coming Down Again are one of MANY highlights on their respective albums (and Keith was in good voice back then). So citing these songs is a tad disingenuous. The Worst is arguably the ONLY half-decent song on Voodoo Lounge and frankly it ranks below ‘Short And Curlies’ on my list of favorite Stones songs.

I have no doubt the Norwegians went crazy for Love Is Strong in 1998. Streets of Love was also well-received in Europe. Neither song is particularly good but in the party atmosphere of a concert rather than sit there and sulk I would’ve happily sung along too. But that’s not really the point. I appreciate that Love Is Strong has its admirers but there are at least as many people who find it formulaic and as desperate for attention as an inflated penis. But hey, Mick plays the harp on it so it can’t be all bad. I reckon I’ve listened to it at least 300 times but maybe I should give it another chance. (Actually if I’ve listened to it 300 times, I guess I must kinda like it. I just don’t think it’s a very good song, relatively speaking.)

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GasLightStreet

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Wild Slivovitz
"Honest Man" is another one.

That one isn't on the boots I have so I forgot about it.

However, it's not... even barely good, really. It IS just a revamp of Sweet Thing! And Mick says 'danger zone'... really bad.

Honest Man has a nice groove. I don't have any Jagger solo so not really familiar with Sweet Thing. Does Keith play guitar on Honest Man, I always thought so?