Tell Me :
Talk
Buff some of this stuff up and drop a Deeeeeluxe on us ....
ROCKMAN
It is clear that Dirty Work is not among the best Stones albums. Why do I need to be reminded of this over and over again by the exact same people? I know Dirty Work is not liked by many. We all know it is not liked by many.
Amongst the best Stones albums.
Correct.
It's amongst their worst.
It doesn't even pass "OK".
Whatever. It happened.
There's almost not ONE band (or artist) that hasn't released a clunker, a clam, a suckass album.
However.
Here?
It's a forum. A forum involves the past, present and future. Good and bad.
Loving a band does not automatically mean loving EVERYTHING they've ever done.
There are the professional critics - oh it's their best since (enter bullshit here). Too common. See any RollingStone post-1986 album review.
All of that aside, you don't need to be reminded - no one is telling you to look at this thread even though you already know what will be amongst it.
You could start a DIRTY WORK thread that says "This is for people that like/love the album - if you're not one of those, please don't comment" or whatever, etc.
I bet you'd find people respecting that.
But an open album talk thread?
Oh it's gonna be bombed - good and bad.
Certain albums lend themselves to certain criticism. You might find that talks about SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE mention leftovers - loads of leftovers.
Some of them got finished and released. There's also implorification that what hasn't been released - they be released.
DIRTY WORK had over 300 or whatever it was Bill Wyman said reels of tape, mostly covers. In general it's not a big deal that nothing else ever got released.
Say they recorded Hound Dog in 1985.
And in 1982.
And in 1979.
And in 1977.
And in 1975.
And in 1973.
And in 1972.
And 1971.
You think anyone is going to give a shit about the 1985 version?
Your answer should be yes.
I hope that helps.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Absolute insanity. Doxa, please seek urgent medical attention.
I have to say I do not recall what I thought of the album when it came out. I remember buying it and I thought the cover was very ugly, but the pink plastic wrapper a nice touch. I do not recall what I thought of the music. But the fact that I moved away for some time to different bands, especially when the grunge movement started says a lot I guess.
Mathijs
I've always loved that line! Utterly ridiculous.
Okay, I'll let you off, Doxa!
I don't recall how long it took me to understand or accept that probably this album does not quite qualify with their earlier efforts. Probably I - the world's biggest Stones fan in my mind - just wanted to believe that it does, you know, like witnessing a great new addition in the great series of great albums. But at least at the time STEEL WHEELS was released, I knew DIRTY WORK was a mediocre effort and the new album sounded so much better. "Best since TATTOO YOU", I thought (I had mixed emotions about UNDERCOVER also at the time).
And if I'd to be frank, for years I couldn't really be 'objective' about TATTOO YOU, since that was the album that got me hooked. It was very important for me, but I thought maybe that's subjective. And although it was usually pretty much praised at the time (and got pretty good reviews I think), I think its general recognition as the last truely great album, even a masterpiece happened later. Probably it took some not so tremendous albums to see its unique value.
- Doxa
Damn, for the first time ever I’m starting to like this song!
I'm kinda stoned, but that first paragraph sums up how I feel. Crazy to see it in words.
Great post!
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 5, 2023 00:08
Buff some of this stuff up and drop a Deeeeeluxe on us ....
ROCKMAN
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
georgemcdonnell314
()
Date: October 5, 2023 21:25
I think they'll get to this one sooner or later. They are running out of albums to release as a deluxe.
Even if it was a tense time for them there is still some good stuff they can release.
Even if it was a tense time for them there is still some good stuff they can release.
Quote
Rockman
Buff some of this stuff up and drop a Deeeeeluxe on us ....
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 6, 2023 04:24
Any form of a deluxe DIRTY WORK release will probably come about 20 years after they retire/die.
If whatever label is in charge and even bothered with such a thing.
Yeah, let's put out a deluxe something for an album that sucked.
If whatever label is in charge and even bothered with such a thing.
Yeah, let's put out a deluxe something for an album that sucked.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 6, 2023 04:47
Quote
frenki09
When I see that there is a new post in the DW thread, I hesitate for a second. Would it be worth reading it? Would it make my day? Would this contribute to me having a better day? Would I learn something new about Dirty Work or The Rolling Stones?
I never understand why people have to spread hate. Why do people need to voice their hatred again and again and again about anything or anyone? Why do these people feel the need and urge to spread negativity? I understand you do it once. But then you come back and say it again, and then again...
It is clear that Dirty Work is not among the best Stones albums. Why do I need to be reminded of this over and over again by the exact same people? I know Dirty Work is not liked by many. We all know it is not liked by many.
I wonder why haters cannot leave this album alone and respect the fact that some people do see something likable in it.
Ugly people also find their loved ones.
This thread is such a sad one.
I am glad that there are people revisiting this album or the not-so-good Stones LPs. Perhaps we would appreciate a song or two off Dirty Work if it was released for the first time on the new album with better production, and reworked with a couple of changes in it here and there. Who knows how that song would be received today in comparison to the songs on Bigger Bang?
I do not want the same haters commenting on what I have just said. No point in it, is there?
Seriously, people have got enough problems and hatred is not what we need even if this hatred is toward only an insignificant album.
I am not a hippy. But I do prefer love or wise silence over letting your hatred being heard when it does not contribute to anything that helps me grow or understand things better. Negativity does indeed creep into my thoughts and actions.
Sad Sad Sad.
It is clear that Dirty Work is not among the best Stones albums. Why do I need to be reminded of this over and over again by the exact same people? I know Dirty Work is not liked by many. We all know it is not liked by many.
Amongst the best Stones albums.
Correct.
It's amongst their worst.
It doesn't even pass "OK".
Whatever. It happened.
There's almost not ONE band (or artist) that hasn't released a clunker, a clam, a suckass album.
However.
Here?
It's a forum. A forum involves the past, present and future. Good and bad.
Loving a band does not automatically mean loving EVERYTHING they've ever done.
There are the professional critics - oh it's their best since (enter bullshit here). Too common. See any RollingStone post-1986 album review.
All of that aside, you don't need to be reminded - no one is telling you to look at this thread even though you already know what will be amongst it.
You could start a DIRTY WORK thread that says "This is for people that like/love the album - if you're not one of those, please don't comment" or whatever, etc.
I bet you'd find people respecting that.
But an open album talk thread?
Oh it's gonna be bombed - good and bad.
Certain albums lend themselves to certain criticism. You might find that talks about SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE mention leftovers - loads of leftovers.
Some of them got finished and released. There's also implorification that what hasn't been released - they be released.
DIRTY WORK had over 300 or whatever it was Bill Wyman said reels of tape, mostly covers. In general it's not a big deal that nothing else ever got released.
Say they recorded Hound Dog in 1985.
And in 1982.
And in 1979.
And in 1977.
And in 1975.
And in 1973.
And in 1972.
And 1971.
You think anyone is going to give a shit about the 1985 version?
Your answer should be yes.
I hope that helps.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 6, 2023 12:07
Damn, I love your posts, Skippy.
But talking about love - a term we cool Finns are never easy with (almost never the Finnish word for it is used in the context of music or almost in anything outside very special human relationships) - I started to reflect my attitude towards the stuff that I don't rate so high by the band I love so much. In a way I love them all, but in some cases I don't like some of them so much... Even at their very worst I find there something irrestible, something I feel myself connected to. Just like it is with Dylan for me - even his weakest moments are interesting, if not even exciting to me. The same goes, but with not such extent, for many other artists. If there is something in artist that moves me, I am into anything he or she does. That there are ups and and downs in quality just makes it more interesting. Like in life. Does that make any sense? Most likely not!
But then there is stuff doesn't move me that much - no matter how great is supposed to be. I might like it, but not loving it. So, in the case of heading to an isolated island, and I am offered a choise between the whole Beatles catalogue and DIRTY WORK, I would take the latter... Crazy, huh?
All you need is love!
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-06 12:18 by Doxa.
But talking about love - a term we cool Finns are never easy with (almost never the Finnish word for it is used in the context of music or almost in anything outside very special human relationships) - I started to reflect my attitude towards the stuff that I don't rate so high by the band I love so much. In a way I love them all, but in some cases I don't like some of them so much... Even at their very worst I find there something irrestible, something I feel myself connected to. Just like it is with Dylan for me - even his weakest moments are interesting, if not even exciting to me. The same goes, but with not such extent, for many other artists. If there is something in artist that moves me, I am into anything he or she does. That there are ups and and downs in quality just makes it more interesting. Like in life. Does that make any sense? Most likely not!
But then there is stuff doesn't move me that much - no matter how great is supposed to be. I might like it, but not loving it. So, in the case of heading to an isolated island, and I am offered a choise between the whole Beatles catalogue and DIRTY WORK, I would take the latter... Crazy, huh?
All you need is love!
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-06 12:18 by Doxa.
Re: Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: October 6, 2023 12:53
Quote
Doxa
Damn, I love your posts, Skippy.
But talking about love - a term we cool Finns are never easy with (almost never the Finnish word for it is used in the context of music or almost in anything outside very special human relationships) - I started to reflect my attitude towards the stuff that I don't rate so high by the band I love so much. In a way I love them all, but in some cases I don't like some of them so much... Even at their very worst I find there something irrestible, something I feel myself connected to. Just like it is with Dylan for me - even his weakest moments are interesting, if not even exciting to me. The same goes, but with not such extent, for many other artists. If there is something in artist that moves me, I am into anything he or she does. That there are ups and and downs in quality just makes it more interesting. Like in life. Does that make any sense? Most likely not!
But then there is stuff doesn't move me that much - no matter how great is supposed to be. I might like it, but not loving it. So, in the case of heading to an isolated island, and I am offered a choise between the whole Beatles catalogue and DIRTY WORK, I would take the latter... Crazy, huh?
All you need is love!
- Doxa
Absolute insanity. Doxa, please seek urgent medical attention.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 6, 2023 13:10
Quote
Doxa
Anyway, like you (and being exactly your age), I loved the album at the time,
- Doxa
I have to say I do not recall what I thought of the album when it came out. I remember buying it and I thought the cover was very ugly, but the pink plastic wrapper a nice touch. I do not recall what I thought of the music. But the fact that I moved away for some time to different bands, especially when the grunge movement started says a lot I guess.
Mathijs
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 6, 2023 13:12
I tried, Big Al...
And the doctors says you'll be okay
And if you'd only stay away
From femme fatales and dirty bitches
And daylight drabs and night time witches
And working girls and blue stockings
And dance hall babes and body poppers
And waitresses with broken noses
Checkout girls striking poses
And politicians' garish wives
With alcoholic @#$%& like knives
But it didn't help!
- Doxa
And the doctors says you'll be okay
And if you'd only stay away
From femme fatales and dirty bitches
And daylight drabs and night time witches
And working girls and blue stockings
And dance hall babes and body poppers
And waitresses with broken noses
Checkout girls striking poses
And politicians' garish wives
With alcoholic @#$%& like knives
But it didn't help!
- Doxa
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: October 6, 2023 13:39
Quote
Doxa
I tried, Big Al...
And the doctors says you'll be okay
And if you'd only stay away
From femme fatales and dirty bitches
And daylight drabs and night time witches
And working girls and blue stockings
And dance hall babes and body poppers
And waitresses with broken noses
Checkout girls striking poses
And politicians' garish wives
With alcoholic @#$%& like knives
But it didn't help!
- Doxa
I've always loved that line! Utterly ridiculous.
Okay, I'll let you off, Doxa!
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 6, 2023 14:04
Quote
MathijsQuote
Doxa
Anyway, like you (and being exactly your age), I loved the album at the time,
- Doxa
I have to say I do not recall what I thought of the album when it came out. I remember buying it and I thought the cover was very ugly, but the pink plastic wrapper a nice touch. I do not recall what I thought of the music. But the fact that I moved away for some time to different bands, especially when the grunge movement started says a lot I guess.
Mathijs
I don't recall how long it took me to understand or accept that probably this album does not quite qualify with their earlier efforts. Probably I - the world's biggest Stones fan in my mind - just wanted to believe that it does, you know, like witnessing a great new addition in the great series of great albums. But at least at the time STEEL WHEELS was released, I knew DIRTY WORK was a mediocre effort and the new album sounded so much better. "Best since TATTOO YOU", I thought (I had mixed emotions about UNDERCOVER also at the time).
And if I'd to be frank, for years I couldn't really be 'objective' about TATTOO YOU, since that was the album that got me hooked. It was very important for me, but I thought maybe that's subjective. And although it was usually pretty much praised at the time (and got pretty good reviews I think), I think its general recognition as the last truely great album, even a masterpiece happened later. Probably it took some not so tremendous albums to see its unique value.
- Doxa
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 6, 2023 15:03
I don't think I could be truly objective about anything this band does.
...We'll forgive the ones we love for almost anything.
...We'll forgive the ones we love for almost anything.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2023 15:18
As a 15 year old I had work placement through school for a week when DW came out. Luckily, a mate and I were placed in a record store!
We played DW constantly during that week, and I remember loving it dearly – like I loved Undercover 3 years earlier.
I don't know if we sold more or less records than what they usually did. No one complained about the music, though
We played DW constantly during that week, and I remember loving it dearly – like I loved Undercover 3 years earlier.
I don't know if we sold more or less records than what they usually did. No one complained about the music, though
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 6, 2023 17:03
That's why nobody likes the sound of it Dandy,
You wore out all the copies before anybody could buy one !
You wore out all the copies before anybody could buy one !
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
SomeGuy
()
Date: October 6, 2023 17:32
When DW came out I was still a law student and the glory days of TY were already long over.
I bought two lps that day in March '86, Jimmy Page's Firm album 'Mean Business' and DW. I started playing Page's record and didn't like it. A friend called and told me he had bought the exact same two records and didn't even finish playing Page but put on DW instead, because that album was "much more fun", and hey! I agreed.
I still do.
I bought two lps that day in March '86, Jimmy Page's Firm album 'Mean Business' and DW. I started playing Page's record and didn't like it. A friend called and told me he had bought the exact same two records and didn't even finish playing Page but put on DW instead, because that album was "much more fun", and hey! I agreed.
I still do.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Tate
()
Date: October 6, 2023 18:53
DW still sounds sloppy and badly mixed to me... Drums (and some vocs) waaay too loud on most tracks. Loved Harlem Shuffle, Sleep Tonight, and Too Rude, but I think that's it by my memory. Hold Back to this day just hurts my ears and soul. I wish this album would be remixed, and maybe some vocs re-recorded, but I want Charlie's drums, un-amplified and not cannon-like. The album could sound SO much better, especially songs like Fight, without the dreadful production/ mix, imho.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
barbabang
()
Date: October 6, 2023 19:01
I love Dirty Work for the most part! Still do.
(And I like Tin Machine I and Tin Machine 2 even more, but that is Bowie)
(And I like Tin Machine I and Tin Machine 2 even more, but that is Bowie)
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
WillInUK
()
Date: October 6, 2023 21:12
What were the contemporise releasing?
What was the competition.
What was the competition.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: October 6, 2023 21:23
Dirty Work was the first new album to come out after I'd become a fan, aged about 18, so on that basis I have some affection for it, though it's clearly very far from their best.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
padre69
()
Date: October 7, 2023 00:52
DW came out when I was at the tender age of 16, and I had just found the band, so it has a special place in my heart. Like a child that disappoints you time after time, but you still love the kid.
Replacing Hold Back and Back To Zero with Strictly Memphis and Putty In Your Hand would’ve done it a whole different album.
Replacing Hold Back and Back To Zero with Strictly Memphis and Putty In Your Hand would’ve done it a whole different album.
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
padre69
()
Date: October 7, 2023 01:01
You are actually right. I’ve always hated Winning Ugly, but after reading your post I started playing the song to find out if there’s any good in it. The arrangement and production suck on DW version, but underneath there’s a nice blues shuffle with good chord changes.Quote
matxil
"Winning Ugly" is potentially a great song. The structure, the chord sequences, the melody and the guitars are all splendid. The big problem is the production, especially the sound of the "bass" (I am not even sure it's a real bass guitar) and the drums. I am still waiting for a band to make some groovy cover version of it.
Damn, for the first time ever I’m starting to like this song!
Re: Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work Posted by:
MingSubu
()
Date: October 7, 2023 04:30
Quote
Doxa
Damn, I love your posts, Skippy.
But talking about love - a term we cool Finns are never easy with (almost never the Finnish word for it is used in the context of music or almost in anything outside very special human relationships) - I started to reflect my attitude towards the stuff that I don't rate so high by the band I love so much. In a way I love them all, but in some cases I don't like some of them so much... Even at their very worst I find there something irrestible, something I feel myself connected to. Just like it is with Dylan for me - even his weakest moments are interesting, if not even exciting to me. The same goes, but with not such extent, for many other artists. If there is something in artist that moves me, I am into anything he or she does. That there are ups and and downs in quality just makes it more interesting. Like in life. Does that make any sense? Most likely not!
But then there is stuff doesn't move me that much - no matter how great is supposed to be. I might like it, but not loving it. So, in the case of heading to an isolated island, and I am offered a choise between the whole Beatles catalogue and DIRTY WORK, I would take the latter... Crazy, huh?
All you need is love!
- Doxa
I'm kinda stoned, but that first paragraph sums up how I feel. Crazy to see it in words.
Great post!
Re: ALBUM TALK: Dirty Work
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: October 7, 2023 15:32
I like lots of this album. BTZ is the only complete loser for me. And I love the song Dirty Work.
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