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sanQ
I don't know why Mick Taylor would want to play with Jagger/Richards anyway besides money. He should just sue to get some royalties. Jagger uses a backing track for vocals now (compared the late 90's to 2006 and there's a sudden massive improvement) and Keith probably does too for his guitar, at least that's what I've read. Then Gene Simmons said they were using backing tracks as well.

There is no massive improvement in MJ voice. His vocal range is very limited (just listen to live version of Doom & Gloom) of course age factor. He sings within the same narrow "vocal bandwidth" and therefore seems to be very stressed when singing. Thank goodness he doesn't sing false like Macca, at least not yet.

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sanQ
I don't know why Mick Taylor would want to play with Jagger/Richards anyway besides money. He should just sue to get some royalties. Jagger uses a backing track for vocals now (compared the late 90's to 2006 and there's a sudden massive improvement) and Keith probably does too for his guitar, at least that's what I've read. Then Gene Simmons said they were using backing tracks as well.

I don't think Mick or Keith are using backing tracks these days. There may be some enhancements on Micks vocal like a doubling/delay effect to fatten it up. But backing tracks insinuate pre-recorded material and besides some stuff that plays when the band takes the stage, and the samba rhythm on Sympathy, I don't think it's happening.

D&G suggests some samples are triggered from Charlie's drum hits which may or may not be the case, but that still represents live playing to me.

peace

their soundman debunked all that bullshit in an article someone posted weeks ago.some a-hole was throwing out a million geek terms trying to sell it and the soundguy made it really clear-if you could read english even a little bit he explained the whole thing.

if i remember the little troll shrunk and disappeared soon after.

the haters cant have it both ways-complain about the stones having trainwrecks onstage and accuse them of using backing tracks at the same time.

this has been going on for years.i remember them getting accused of lip-syncing on the flatbed in 75 and keith said"they didnt see the big generator next to us??"
the funniest one was the guy from rs magazine asking jagger if he lip-synced the harmonica part on sweet virginia and jagger thought "lip-sync"meant literally sinking your lip into the harmonica and said "yeah,but that makes your mouth bleed" this was 72-73.

but really if you think mick and keith are playing with a track you shouldnt be allowed on a stones fansight.

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nightskyman
sanQ writes: "Jagger uses a backing track for vocals now...and Keith probably does too for his guitar, at least that's what I've read."

You mean Keith doesn't play live, it's a backing track of his guitar? Would not that defeat the purpose of doing live concerts?

lol But isn't that the industry standard these days?

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lem motlow
their soundman debunked all that bullshit in an article someone posted weeks ago.some a-hole was throwing out a million geek terms trying to sell it and the soundguy made it really clear-if you could read english even a little bit he explained the whole thing.

if i remember the little troll shrunk and disappeared soon after.

the haters cant have it both ways-complain about the stones having trainwrecks onstage and accuse them of using backing tracks at the same time.

this has been going on for years.i remember them getting accused of lip-syncing on the flatbed in 75 and keith said"they didnt see the big generator next to us??"
the funniest one was the guy from rs magazine asking jagger if he lip-synced the harmonica part on sweet virginia and jagger thought "lip-sync"meant literally sinking your lip into the harmonica and said "yeah,but that makes your mouth bleed" this was 72-73.

but really if you think mick and keith are playing with a track you shouldnt be allowed on a stones fansight.

I don't really think they use backing tracks, but I kept reading about that shit by the true haters. I do think Mick might use something of an effect on his vocal sometimes. I also read somewhere that someone said Blondie was playing Keith's parts. It's kind of comical the things people come up with.

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sanQ

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nightskyman
sanQ writes: "Jagger uses a backing track for vocals now...and Keith probably does too for his guitar, at least that's what I've read."

You mean Keith doesn't play live, it's a backing track of his guitar? Would not that defeat the purpose of doing live concerts?

lol But isn't that the industry standard these days?

What utter nonsense! Someone misunderstood something along the way here, obviously.

If he's talking about singback or playback, I can assure that they are non-existent.

A recorded album intro-track for GS, when our boys walked from the B-stage – as well as the congas on SFTD – is the tape stuff they have used.

The thought of Keith recording wonky and sloppy guitar tracks, or that Mick recorded the non-perfect vocals we hear at shows, to use in the show is preposterous

BTW, Blondie was never playing Keith's parts. He never even had distortion on his guitar. He did some nice acoustic fills on Nearness Of You, though, but they were very clear and easy to spot, together with the two other guitars in action.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-24 10:55 by DandelionPowderman.

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sanQ
I don't know why Mick Taylor would want to play with Jagger/Richards anyway besides money. H

Taylor became a guitarist in the first place cause he liked it. And of course, the money.

I went to see Lynyrd Skynyrd last night. Loved it. The 3 guitars are fabulous. But it clearly takes a lot of thought to make good arrangements and a lot of practice to make it work.

It is an illusion that the boys would make such effort at this stage of their career. As long Keith manages his (simplified) parts, the two guitars are just fine.

I think in general that is true, but even in 2015 the Stones as musicians are several cuts above the guys in Lynyrd Skynyrd (to whom I mean no offence). They would have been in a much better position to make the arrangements work. It didn't take that much practice on 50 and Counting before the three guitars were routinely cooking up storms on Rambler - not an easy song to do well, by anyone's standards. The Stones' musical ethos is different too. Skynyrd are tight and essentially play songs note for note, and so for them the arrangements need to be worked out very precisely. The Stones are much looser, with the guitarists winging and weaving throughout the songs. Part of the Stones' appeal is their wild unpredictability. They swing from out of tune sloppiness to telepathic, sublime genius. The fans understand this and basically don't mind things going wrong sometimes. With Skynyrd that's not the case, and never was.

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Stoneburst
I think in general that is true, but even in 2015 the Stones as musicians are several cuts above the guys in Lynyrd Skynyrd (to whom I mean no offence). They would have been in a much better position to make the arrangements work. It didn't take that much practice on 50 and Counting before the three guitars were routinely cooking up storms on Rambler - not an easy song to do well, by anyone's standards. The Stones' musical ethos is different too. Skynyrd are tight and essentially play songs note for note, and so for them the arrangements need to be worked out very precisely. The Stones are much looser, with the guitarists winging and weaving throughout the songs. Part of the Stones' appeal is their wild unpredictability. They swing from out of tune sloppiness to telepathic, sublime genius. The fans understand this and basically don't mind things going wrong sometimes. With Skynyrd that's not the case, and never was.

Agree on all points, the looseness of Stones is magic.

I did not find the difference between MR with and without MT that dramatic, which I ascribe to lack of arrangements (I am sure others feel differently about this).

MR is always a highlight when the Stones play it.

The lack of rehearsing/arranging becomes more evident on other songs with three guitars.

Taylor has a trailblazing style, and needs room for expressing himself. To be able to exploit that, they need to pick the right songs for him to play. That means losing the horns and keyboard arrangements if they choose songs like TD, BS, JJF and other classics for it to work, imo.

Keith and Ronnie are not weaving like in 78 or 81 anymore. Even they have been told to stick to pretty strict arrangements (by Stones standards).

Well, my point is that it would take way more than a couple of weeks to make this work.

One way of doing it could be to use Taylor in the "BB King role", where he only plays the solos, but that's kind of daft as well, imo.

No, fair point. In essence they would have to go back to being a guitar-led band rather than a Chuck-led band.

I should have seen them with Taylor at Roskilde. F--k. listen to Taylor and listen to the interplay with Keith and Ronnie at 6.15 - . OMFG. They could pull it off again. Keith and Taylor. And Ronnie. Why the hell didnt they include him and rehearse a bunch of songs.

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Redhotcarpet

I should have seen them with Taylor at Roskilde. F--k. listen to Taylor and listen to the interplay with Keith and Ronnie at 6.15 - . OMFG. They could pull it off again. Keith and Taylor. And Ronnie. Why the hell didnt they include him and rehearse a bunch of songs.

I was there. Great version indeed

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DandelionPowderman
MR is always a highlight when the Stones play it.

The lack of rehearsing/arranging becomes more evident on other songs with three guitars.

Taylor has a trailblazing style, and needs room for expressing himself. To be able to exploit that, they need to pick the right songs for him to play. That means losing the horns and keyboard arrangements if they choose songs like TD, BS, JJF and other classics for it to work, imo.

Keith and Ronnie are not weaving like in 78 or 81 anymore. Even they have been told to stick to pretty strict arrangements (by Stones standards).

Well, my point is that it would take way more than a couple of weeks to make this work.

One way of doing it could be to use Taylor in the "BB King role", where he only plays the solos, but that's kind of daft as well, imo.

Told by Mick? Chuck? There may be a mutual agreement on how to play the arrangements but I doubt anyone is telling them how to weave or play. They have just fallen into predictable patterns after playing these songs so much.

Taylors role could be so much more than lead although a call and response approach to leads with Ronnie could push them both to new heights. It may be just that Ronnie often seems low in the mix on rhythm work but I hear lots of room for additional rhythm and fill work too. Even if they are playing the same chords with different inversions it would fatten up the mix nicely.

The bottom line is that in 2015, three guitars would work very well for Stones music, without a tremendous amount of work, imo.

peace

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
MR is always a highlight when the Stones play it.

The lack of rehearsing/arranging becomes more evident on other songs with three guitars.

Taylor has a trailblazing style, and needs room for expressing himself. To be able to exploit that, they need to pick the right songs for him to play. That means losing the horns and keyboard arrangements if they choose songs like TD, BS, JJF and other classics for it to work, imo.

Keith and Ronnie are not weaving like in 78 or 81 anymore. Even they have been told to stick to pretty strict arrangements (by Stones standards).

Well, my point is that it would take way more than a couple of weeks to make this work.

One way of doing it could be to use Taylor in the "BB King role", where he only plays the solos, but that's kind of daft as well, imo.

Told by Mick? Chuck? There may be a mutual agreement on how to play the arrangements but I doubt anyone is telling them how to weave or play. They have just fallen into predictable patterns after playing these songs so much.

Taylors role could be so much more than lead although a call and response approach to leads with Ronnie could push them both to new heights. It may be just that Ronnie often seems low in the mix on rhythm work but I hear lots of room for additional rhythm and fill work too. Even if they are playing the same chords with different inversions it would fatten up the mix nicely.

The bottom line is that in 2015, three guitars would work very well for Stones music, without a tremendous amount of work, imo.

peace

Yes, I believe they've had to tow the line to even stricter arrangements since 2012. Listening to JJF, SFM and GS, I'm totally convinced this is true.

In theory your suggestions sound fine. In real life, they would have to spend a lot more time in the rehearsal studio than on the previous tours, imo.

I also suspect you're focusing on opportunities and possibilities, rather than listening to what the touring band already is adding to the mix, when you say there is room for more call and response that will fatten up the mix

yeah..

MJ decided that the big money was in precise detailing of the shows so they roll that way now..

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet

I should have seen them with Taylor at Roskilde. F--k. listen to Taylor and listen to the interplay with Keith and Ronnie at 6.15 - . OMFG. They could pull it off again. Keith and Taylor. And Ronnie. Why the hell didnt they include him and rehearse a bunch of songs.

I was there. Great version indeed

Wow.. Taylor explodes and changes the mood from spectical to musical. Yes it gets quiet, people are listening! MT's right hand leading the octive jump, stuff of guitar gods. The man has so much left in his tank, damn disgrace.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-24 17:59 by DoomandGloom.

that is a unique solo he played

at the time, I wonder if there were discussions going on about an upcoming tour, the one about to start..

and also I wonder if MT got wind of those discussions, and maybe thought he'd be part of it again..or did he get the word then, that he would not be part of it..

I'm excited about this tour and the three shows I plan to see, but it keeps bothering me that MT is out in the cold.

Unique solo with fills, the middle part sounds unique thanks to Taylor (of course) and Ronnie. And Keith. Id love to hear a soundboard from Roskilde and mix Ronnie and Keith with Taylor. I suspect it's even better than what we hear and that it is not just Taylor (who is a shining star on this version) that comes alive. Isnt that Ronnie who just goes wild in the back? He's doing some nice raw riffing stuff there that mixes very well with Taylor. Id love to have that kind of versions of MR and other songs WITH Taylor and WITH Bill and WITH Ronnie higher in the goddamn mix. Keith maybe on another guitar, why not the old Les Paul? I dont think the Junior, Studio or whatever it's called (cant remember) does it justice anymnore.

Damn. Taylor has some fine nuggets hidden on that fretboard. Awesome. Taylor if you ever read this:

And Dandie, Wish Id seen them there.

Dandie, did you catch anything of Ronnie on MR?

What Ronnie did at Roskilde can also be heard (more clearly) on the Glastonbury version. It was like a chuckling sound enhancing the rhytmic development towards the slower part.

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet

I should have seen them with Taylor at Roskilde. F--k. listen to Taylor and listen to the interplay with Keith and Ronnie at 6.15 - . OMFG. They could pull it off again. Keith and Taylor. And Ronnie. Why the hell didnt they include him and rehearse a bunch of songs.

I was there. Great version indeed

Wow.. Taylor explodes and changes the mood from spectical to musical. Yes it gets quiet, people are listening! MT's right hand leading the octive jump, stuff of guitar gods. The man has so much left in his tank, damn disgrace.

Is there any lossless audio boot of this, got a great 320 of Glastonbury CYHMK but would love this. always good to have more mick taylor

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet

I should have seen them with Taylor at Roskilde. F--k. listen to Taylor and listen to the interplay with Keith and Ronnie at 6.15 - . OMFG. They could pull it off again. Keith and Taylor. And Ronnie. Why the hell didnt they include him and rehearse a bunch of songs.

I was there. Great version indeed

Wow.. Taylor explodes and changes the mood from spectical to musical. Yes it gets quiet, people are listening! MT's right hand leading the octive jump, stuff of guitar gods. The man has so much left in his tank, damn disgrace.

I don't how I missed this beauty to my playlist...Seems like Jagger caught the mood of the crowd and extended the song. Great example of how an appreciative audience can invigorate the performance. Looking at the smiles all around from the boys makes me wonder if they really had anything to do with not inviting Taylor along this time...

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DandelionPowderman

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
MR is always a highlight when the Stones play it.

The lack of rehearsing/arranging becomes more evident on other songs with three guitars.

Taylor has a trailblazing style, and needs room for expressing himself. To be able to exploit that, they need to pick the right songs for him to play. That means losing the horns and keyboard arrangements if they choose songs like TD, BS, JJF and other classics for it to work, imo.

Keith and Ronnie are not weaving like in 78 or 81 anymore. Even they have been told to stick to pretty strict arrangements (by Stones standards).

Well, my point is that it would take way more than a couple of weeks to make this work.

One way of doing it could be to use Taylor in the "BB King role", where he only plays the solos, but that's kind of daft as well, imo.

Told by Mick? Chuck? There may be a mutual agreement on how to play the arrangements but I doubt anyone is telling them how to weave or play. They have just fallen into predictable patterns after playing these songs so much.

Taylors role could be so much more than lead although a call and response approach to leads with Ronnie could push them both to new heights. It may be just that Ronnie often seems low in the mix on rhythm work but I hear lots of room for additional rhythm and fill work too. Even if they are playing the same chords with different inversions it would fatten up the mix nicely.

The bottom line is that in 2015, three guitars would work very well for Stones music, without a tremendous amount of work, imo.

peace

Yes, I believe they've had to tow the line to even stricter arrangements since 2012. Listening to JJF, SFM and GS, I'm totally convinced this is true.

In theory your suggestions sound fine. In real life, they would have to spend a lot more time in the rehearsal studio than on the previous tours, imo.

I also suspect you're focusing on opportunities and possibilities, rather than listening to what the touring band already is adding to the mix, when you say there is room for more call and response that will fatten up the mix

The Chuck plink, plink musical director thing is annoying. He puts a boring restriction on Stones music and then we have to listen to his annoying plink, plink "so called piano", a lame piano style, way below standards of Stu, Billy, Nicky and Mac.

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Nikkei
What Ronnie did at Roskilde can also be heard (more clearly) on the Glastonbury version. It was like a chuckling sound enhancing the rhytmic development towards the slower part.

Thats what I sensed here too. We need a soundboard of this gig.

I cant watch Mick "dance" but other than that.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-25 09:42 by Redhotcarpet.

chuck has a lame style? well I would say no style at all

The Roskilde Midnight Rambler is fantastic, but my favourite version from that tour was the Waldbuhne. The audio isn't the best, but Ronnie's face at 4.20 says it all: