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Hairball
I saw Stevie Ray Vaughan several times back in the day, and he was definitely intense live, but I always liked Johnny Winter better. And while I agree with Blackmore for the most part, to say "as a player, he (SRV) didn't do anything amazing" seems a bit harsh. Stevie did seem to rely too much on what was already there from alot of the greats (including Hendrix) vs. coming up with something truly original, but it was mesmerizing to see him play live. Very tragic what happened to him though, just after he cleaned up his life....

SRV was phenomenal. Intense - yes, but that is almost underselling him. His touch and phrasing were unique in many ways. What was remarkable about his style IMO was that he hit all 6 string with his right hand very often. His right hand was kind of wild. So what would come through then from whatever riffage then would be determined by his left hand and whatever he chose to mute. It's hard to explain what I;m trying to say in words in a post. there is a clip of him with Hiram Bullock's band from way back where he is on fire(but sao is the band). I never liked Double Trouble too much.
His singing IMO was similar to Jimi, and they both didn't like their own singing. I love their style.
One guy who has always eluded me, is Johnny Winter. I have tried and tried to like him, because I dig his style, but I have always thought his playing was just a white boy mess.
Whoever mentioned Richie Blackmore - hell yes. Now there is an underrated player. he gets credit for a hard rock player, but he is SO MUCH better. Great phrasing, great sense of melody. It's odd: I think that he himself is a bit embarrassed about how lyrical and sensitive his playing actually is.

OpenG
ted by: keithsman ()
Date: December 30, 2018 20:22

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OpenG
MT's stay with the stones produced songs that were not Keith's idea of what the stones should sound like. We got landscapes of sound in sway, winter, moonlight, etc and he took a 3 chord songs and made it sound sublime in the studio and playing live. That's the beauty of what he added to the stones graveyard rock and roll bluesy sound.

So Exile was not Keith's idea of what the Stones should sound like ??


I just meant the songs Keith was missing in action - Those songs like winter, moonlight where MT helped Jagger get the songs done. When have the stones sounded like a piece of music like Moonlight Mile ? I know Keith said he wrote the riff - but it is the best ballad and piece of music along with Winter the stones ever produced in the studio and Keith was not really involved. I know he sings backup vocals on Winter( I think).

Happy New Year to all

So really what we are saying is that Taylor not only got the very best out of Keith on Exile ( although to be fair i think Exile is predominately down to Keith ) but Taylor also got the very best out of Mick Jagger too on Goat Head Soup and IORR

The way i see it, after a few years of Ronnie replacing Taylor we witnessed a steady collapse of the Stones, i mean they fell to pieces didn't they, and never fully recovered as far as i'm concerned, Taylor leaving effected live performances too, not initially but as Wood went down hill he dragged the band with him imho.
I find it hard to go along with the heard on iorr when it comes to Wood, for large parts of live gigs throughout almost three decades it was like the Stones were playing with a man down, and this must have effected Keith's playing too, when you are covering for someone you are not progressing yourself because you are giving all your energy to just keeping things from collapse.

Playing live you sure got the best of Keith with Taylor. In the studio on GHS -that record sounds more like a jagger/taylor record then a keith/jagger record. MT got Jagger to explore his vocals more and MT helped Jagger sing the melodies 100 Years Ago, and Winter etc.

On Winter Jagger's vocals are beautiful and I love the way he sets up MT solo with

Yeah, I wanna wrap my coat around
Baby, sometimes I wanna keep you warm
Sometimes I wanna wrap my coat around you
Sometimes I wanna but I can't afford you


They both bring out their best on Winter what a collaboration.

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Rocky Dijon

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keithsman
Sorry Rocky for seeing things in a more cynical way than you when it comes to relationships between band members, i can see where you are coming from though, Mick has shown a lot of loyalty towards Ronnie over the years and Ronnie is doing his best to repay Mick and Keith for their patience by putting in great performances in recent years.

I don't think you were wrong. I was just trying to highlight the complexity of it all. Like most people, the answers are rarely cut and dried. It's a bit like when a relationship ends. People can talk about how unhappy they were and how their partner was horrible, but that's just the part that wasn't working. There's still the part that made it last as long as it did.

That is actually a lovely way to look at things, i'm focusing on what went wrong all the time ( the blame game ) what you are focusing on is what held their relationships together for so long, nice, i like that, we can learn a new outlook sometimes, Happy New year Rocky

And you as well.

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OpenG
On Winter Jagger's vocals are beautiful and I love the way he sets up MT solo with

Yeah, I wanna wrap my coat around
Baby, sometimes I wanna keep you warm
Sometimes I wanna wrap my coat around you
Sometimes I wanna but I can't afford you


They both bring out their best on Winter what a collaboration.

Thinking about it, Taylor brought out the genius in Jagger, Winter, Time Waits For No One, 100 Years, Sway , Moonlight Mile, CYHMK, these are all my most treasured Stones songs, it's as though these were made for the real fans, none of them well known to the casual fan and certainly never released as singles, they were the album within the album for me, the best stuff never got to be released as singles. When i got these albums one by one when i got into the Stones i knew the hits, what i didn't expect was that the rest of the album was going to be better.
Very strange though, it's as if the Stones themselves have no way of judging how good their own work was.

osted by: keithsman ()
Date: December 31, 2018 19:48

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OpenG
On Winter Jagger's vocals are beautiful and I love the way he sets up MT solo with

Yeah, I wanna wrap my coat around
Baby, sometimes I wanna keep you warm
Sometimes I wanna wrap my coat around you
Sometimes I wanna but I can't afford you


They both bring out their best on Winter what a collaboration.

Thinking about it, Taylor brought out the genius in Jagger, Winter, Time Waits For No One, 100 Years, Sway , Moonlight Mile, CYHMK, these are all my most treasured Stones songs, it's as though these were made for the real fans, none of them well known to the casual fan and certainly never released as singles, they were the album within the album for me, the best stuff never got to be released as singles. When i got these albums one by one when i got into the Stones i knew the hits, what i didn't expect was that the rest of the album was going to be better.
Very strange though, it's as if the Stones themselves have no way of judging how good their own work was.

Wow you have the same ideas as me. I am humble to know that Mick Taylor would of not had this great opportunity to showcase his talent if not for Jagger/Richards and the rest of the band. When he joined it was the time for stadium tours and time for the great guitar player in the early 70's.

"
Yes its going to be a long "Winter" and "TWFNO" as I write this and I do not want to "Sway" anyone and hopefully is not a "Moonlight Mile" when we get one last time CYHMK with Taylor - That was awesome, awesome, awesome
The Rolling Stones with Mick Taylor - Can't You Hear Me Knocking - Los Angeles, 2013 May 20 -

[www.youtube.com]

There's also that interview clip of Ronnie relating how Mick (Jagger) approached him during Stigwood's party and shared that Mick (Taylor) had just left the band. He (Jagger) seemed surprised, wondering aloud what they'd do for a replacement. He (Jagger) quickly affirmed that he (Jagger) didn't want to break The Faces up.

will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

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StonedInTokyo
There's also that interview clip of Ronnie relating how Mick (Jagger) approached him during Stigwood's party and shared that Mick (Taylor) had just left the band. He (Jagger) seemed surprised, wondering aloud what they'd do for a replacement. He (Jagger) quickly affirmed that he (Jagger) didn't want to break The Faces up.

Ron Wood is not talking in the clip you mentioned. However it's said that even Marshall Chess, in his tourmanager mode, couldn't pursuit Taylor to stay with the Stones at Stigwood's place.

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Captainchaos
will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

The fact that he shared the stage again with them back on the 50th was a miracle enough. I'd love him to be there, I think its horrible he's not, but I can't ever see him making a return.

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RollingFreak

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Captainchaos
will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

The fact that he shared the stage again with them back on the 50th was a miracle enough. I'd love him to be there, I think its horrible he's not, but I can't ever see him making a return.

I'm still kicking myself for missing my chance to see them with MT on that 2013 tour (had a ticket but got myself too sick to travel and bailed at the last minute).

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RollingFreak

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Captainchaos
will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

The fact that he shared the stage again with them back on the 50th was a miracle enough. I'd love him to be there, I think its horrible he's not, but I can't ever see him making a return.

yeah sadly i agree and think thats it with Taylor and the Stones, probably the biggest stones pooper since Dirty Work

genuinly gutted, those recent demo's showed what a miss he is, a sprinkling of Taylor on/in those demo's wouldv elevated them like a rocket, eg 'Tops', no Taylor and that song drops to a 'nyeah.. next track please' for me

Yes - those stones demos from the late 60's - Taylor explodes on Jivin Sister Fanny and Traveling Man and the rest - jagger/Richards compositions to a new level of sublime magic.

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keithsman


As much as i love Ronnie, Taylor is so much better, all the best Stones music recorded and live happened when Mick was in the band.

Nope.

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Captainchaos
will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

At this point it seems the question is whether Taylor will ever go back on stage again...nothing since the 2014 Euro tour with the Stones, right ?

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The fact that he shared the stage again with them back on the 50th was a miracle enough. I'd love him to be there, I think its horrible he's not, but I can't ever see him making a return.

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yeah sadly i agree and think thats it with Taylor and the Stones, probably the biggest stones pooper since Dirty Work

genuinly gutted, those recent demo's showed what a miss he is, a sprinkling of Taylor on/in those demo's wouldv elevated them like a rocket, eg 'Tops', no Taylor and that song drops to a 'nyeah.. next track please' for me

Have I missed some recent leaks of Stones+Taylor material ?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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His Majesty

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keithsman


As much as i love Ronnie, Taylor is so much better, all the best Stones music recorded and live happened when Mick was in the band.

Nope.

I tend to agree. The RS decline has very little to do with the Jones/Taylor/Wood interchange. It had more to do with the songwriting duo Jagger/Richards. Sooner or later the well runs dry.

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Stoneage


I tend to agree. The RS decline has very little to do with the Jones/Taylor/Wood interchange. It had more to do with the songwriting duo Jagger/Richards. Sooner or later the well runs dry.

Also their drastic change in circumstances.

The move away from London to another country, the emergence of the whole jet set thing, Mick getting married, Keith's heroin problems and so on.

Sure, HM. And there you may also have the answer to why Taylor left.

I sometimes wonder if Taylor telling Mick and Keith he was leaving the band was a desperate attempt to get more respect as far as song writing credits were concerned, it back fired of course because instead of talking him into staying with a promise of more rewards for his efforts they just let him go. Bad move all round.

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Stoneage
I tend to agree. The RS decline has very little to do with the Jones/Taylor/Wood interchange. It had more to do with the songwriting duo Jagger/Richards. Sooner or later the well runs dry.

They grew apart. They work differently and their vision of the band is often at opposite extremes. They both have considerable egos and both dislike compromise. For me, the lack of creative chemistry is the reason for the artistic decline. It's not about Ronnie, Darryl, Chuck, Matt, or Don Was.

For all the off years where the stones did not tour or record - that would of left MT some opportunity to make some solo records maybe that would of been enough for his creative juices and to get away from the whole stones drama, but that was not to be with his wife pushing him out and with his drug problem and lack of song credits he thought he deserved.

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OpenG
For all the off years where the stones did not tour or record - that would of left MT some opportunity to make some solo records maybe that would of been enough for his creative juices and to get away from the whole stones drama, but that was not to be with his wife pushing him out and with his drug problem and lack of song credits he thought he deserved.

Are you talking about Rose Millar, his first wife? I don't think she pushed Taylor out per se.

Yes - I read that some where in Victor Bockris - Keith Richards The Biography from 2003? . The ironic thing was she was also taking drugs and if I remember correctly scoring drugs with Jimmy Page - I have to go back to the chapters.

As far as I understood it she was not happy that Taylor left considering the money
Mick Taylor could make with the upcoming '75tour. The main reason for Taylor's departure was the drug environment that Mick Taylor wanted to get away from. At least that's what she wrote. Count in playing with the great Jack Bruce and a lot of musical ideas, well there you go. Probably Taylor's own judgement?

Posted by: TheflyingDutchman ()
Date: January 8, 2019 19:48

As far as I understood it she was not happy that Taylor left considering the money
Mick Taylor could make with the upcoming '75tour. The main reason for Taylor's departure was the drug environment that Mick Taylor wanted to get away from. At least that's what she wrote. Count in playing with the great Jack Bruce and a lot of musical ideas, well there you go. Probably Taylor's own judgement?

Yes your points are valid and I agree - This is from Victor's book page 227

Nick Kent: As I got into heroin I was buying it from these guys Tony and Marty at Granny Takes a Trip which is where Keith and Ronnie used to buy their clothes, so I was seeing Rose Taylor going down their to score and Jimmy Page and Keith Richards. So if Rose wanted MT to get away from drugs why is she supposedly going down to score? anyway that's what in the book

I didn't write that Rose wanted to get Mick away from drugs, Mick himself wanted that. And since Rose was hooked herself she had to score. Seems logical to me.

When Taylor left, the lead guitar started to disappear. Taylor's solo's
were incredible.

I love Woodie, but his lead work cannot compare to MT. Sorry.

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gotdablouse

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Captainchaos
will he ever share a stage live with the full band again, or the glimmer twins or just one of the glimmer twins?

i goddam hope so but I'm on a wing and a prayer

At this point it seems the question is whether Taylor will ever go back on stage again...nothing since the 2014 Euro tour with the Stones, right ?

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The fact that he shared the stage again with them back on the 50th was a miracle enough. I'd love him to be there, I think its horrible he's not, but I can't ever see him making a return.

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yeah sadly i agree and think thats it with Taylor and the Stones, probably the biggest stones pooper since Dirty Work

genuinly gutted, those recent demo's showed what a miss he is, a sprinkling of Taylor on/in those demo's wouldv elevated them like a rocket, eg 'Tops', no Taylor and that song drops to a 'nyeah.. next track please' for me

Have I missed some recent leaks of Stones+Taylor material ?

no - quoting and highlighting the first 3 words of a sentence takes it somewhere else - THIS below is what i said

genuinly gutted, those recent demo's showed what a miss he is, a sprinkling of Taylor on/in those demo's wouldv elevated them like a rocket

and its about the 2002 Sessions that leaked and were talked about on this forum, search the below

LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Lorenz ()
Date: April 11, 2018 21:51

Cheers

Yeah I know these demos, not sure why you singled them out, be it 2002 or any other session since 1977, Taylor could have added some tasty licks, leads, fills to the music of the Stones.

Anyway of more "immediate" concern to me is that by the looks of it (completely inactive publicly since 2014) we won't be seeing Taylor on stage again, that's pretty sad...I seem to remember some comments by people close to him that it was a hard life being on the road in crap conditions at his age but you'd think that he would have been asked (or offered) to guest here and there, just for the fun of it.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio