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straycatuk
I remember a radio interview with Glyn Johns where he said he walked out of the Black and Blue sessions after a bust up with Keith.Has he worked with the band since ?

sc uk

He worked on GRRR (2012), The very Best of The Rolling Stones (2013), Charlie is My Darling (2012), The Rolling Stones Box Set (2009), Remastered Series (2004), Singles 1963-1965 (2004), Forty Licks (2002), Rock and Roll Circus (1996) and The Complete Singles Collection:The London Years (1989).

He has no credits for the Black and Blue sessions and his last one prior to that was for It's Only Rock and Roll.

So obviously he's still and important tool in the Stones toolbox. I think his intolerance for Keith and Ronnie's drug use was probably responsible for his absence from 1974 till 1989. Arguably some of their more wasted years. peace

Isn't his work on those not just in relation to what was done in 60's and 70's?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-27 22:28 by fuzzbox.

>> "Johns descibes working on a track at Basing Street Studios on which Taylor had overdubbed backing vocals, drums and a bass." << Does the actual article say which track? That's kind of important.

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fuzzbox
Isn't his work on those not just in relation to what was done in 60's and 70's?

Yeah you're probably right , certainly GRRR was new work for him and he might have been involved tweaking the masters for the new digital formats, etc.. Not sure how much, if any, new multi-track mixing he might have done. peace

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Naturalust

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fuzzbox
Isn't his work on those not just in relation to what was done in 60's and 70's?

Yeah you're probably right , certainly GRRR was new work for him and he might have been involved tweaking the masters for the new digital formats, etc.. Not sure how much, if any, new multi-track mixing he might have done. peace

He is not mentioned anywhere in the liner notes for Grrr !.

Some years ago, Glyn Johns was asked by the author of the official Nicky Hopkins biography about his recollections of working with the pianist who is held in high esteem by many people.
Glyn Johns was the only person to turn down the request and explained his decision as follows: 'Nicky was a great musician, but an amateur human being'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-28 13:52 by Chacal.

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Naturalust

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fuzzbox
Isn't his work on those not just in relation to what was done in 60's and 70's?

Yeah you're probably right , certainly GRRR was new work for him and he might have been involved tweaking the masters for the new digital formats, etc.. Not sure how much, if any, new multi-track mixing he might have done. peace

He mixed Doom and Gloom and One More Shot.
[www.globalpositioningservices.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-28 15:28 by bonddm.

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Title5Take1
>> "Johns descibes working on a track at Basing Street Studios on which Taylor had overdubbed backing vocals, drums and a bass." << Does the actual article say which track? That's kind of important.

It's not so absurd... It's Only Rock n Roll had a different rhythm section. He was a member of the band, made a track and loved it and wanted nothing different than Macca did a few times on The White Album. The Stones were in a flux with Keith seeming hopeless according to some. The key here is although a full member he was not treated as such and then got screwed on writing credits.... It's not so crazy for a musician to feel this way, it's called "demo love."

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fuzzbox
Isn't his work on those not just in relation to what was done in 60's and 70's?

Yeah you're probably right , certainly GRRR was new work for him and he might have been involved tweaking the masters for the new digital formats, etc.. Not sure how much, if any, new multi-track mixing he might have done. peace

He is not mentioned anywhere in the liner notes for Grrr !.

Some years ago, Glyn Johns was asked by the author of the official Nicky Hopkins biography about his recollections of working with the pianist who is held in high esteem by many people.
Glyn Johns was the only person to turn down the request and explained his decision as follows: 'Nicky was a great musician, but an amateur human being'.

Wasn't Glyn the one that stayed sober all the time? Might have lead to this almost unfathomable grumpiness...

"A long and successful solo career"??

Long,maybe. Successful? On what level? Number of pies consumed?

It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

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DoomandGloom

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

Hell, why does Keith have to show up at all.... he knows he'll get 1/2 the credit regardless. I wish we had more strictly Taylor/Jagger collaborations from that time because every one of them turned out to be fantastic...a high point in both their creative careers. peace

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

Hell, why does Keith have to show up at all.... he knows he'll get 1/2 the credit regardless. I wish we had more strictly Taylor/Jagger collaborations from that time because every one of them turned out to be fantastic...a high point in both their creative careers. peace

From Taylor's perspective it must have been quite depressing since the work he was doing was first rate. That along with a steady diet of dope and a world of yes men gave him enough of a blurred vision to quit the band. In The Stones defense, they are very old school and go back to the days where the principle members ruled, image and how the Glimmers are perceived may be the key to having a 50 year old rock band. They could look at Mick Taylor and say he owed them this and more for making him the a star in the their legendary band.

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DoomandGloom

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

Hell, why does Keith have to show up at all.... he knows he'll get 1/2 the credit regardless. I wish we had more strictly Taylor/Jagger collaborations from that time because every one of them turned out to be fantastic...a high point in both their creative careers. peace

From Taylor's perspective it must have been quite depressing since the work he was doing was first rate. That along with a steady diet of dope and a world of yes men gave him enough of a blurred vision to quit the band. In The Stones defense, they are very old school and go back to the days where the principle members ruled, image and how the Glimmers are perceived may be the key to having a 50 year old rock band. They could look at Mick Taylor and say he owed them this and more for making him the a star in the their legendary band.

Some would say his vision was pretty clear...it kept him alive. Success at the level of the Stones may seem like such a hard thing to give up, but dealing with Keith and the people around him at that time wouldn't be worth it to lots of folks. Who knew the Stones would survive as well as they have? Without the Toronto bust would Some Girls have been made? Would Keith have lived into the 1980's? Maybe, but the Stones would have surely been a lot different, imo.

Looking at Keith in 1975 he's barely there....no judgement intended, I know that was "cool" to lots of folks and fans at the time, most have probably learned different by now though. Taylor may have been ready to give all that up, but sadly didn't know how hard it would be and how long it would take him.





peace

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

Hell, why does Keith have to show up at all.... he knows he'll get 1/2 the credit regardless. I wish we had more strictly Taylor/Jagger collaborations from that time because every one of them turned out to be fantastic...a high point in both their creative careers. peace

From Taylor's perspective it must have been quite depressing since the work he was doing was first rate. That along with a steady diet of dope and a world of yes men gave him enough of a blurred vision to quit the band. In The Stones defense, they are very old school and go back to the days where the principle members ruled, image and how the Glimmers are perceived may be the key to having a 50 year old rock band. They could look at Mick Taylor and say he owed them this and more for making him the a star in the their legendary band.

Some would say his vision was pretty clear...it kept him alive. Success at the level of the Stones may seem like such a hard thing to give up, but dealing with Keith and the people around him at that time wouldn't be worth it to lots of folks. Who knew the Stones would survive as well as they have? Without the Toronto bust would Some Girls have been made? Would Keith have lived into the 1980's? Maybe, but the Stones would have surely been a lot different, imo.

Looking at Keith in 1975 he's barely there....no judgement intended, I know that was "cool" to lots of folks and fans at the time, most have probably learned different by now though. Taylor may have been ready to give all that up, but sadly didn't know how hard it would be and how long it would take him.





peace

Lot's of speculations. Taylor made a good job while being in Stones. But we should not forget that the big job was still done by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, that is playing and writing the music.

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mtaylor
Lot's of speculations. Taylor made a good job while being in Stones. But we should not forget that the big job was still done by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, that is playing and writing the music.

Yes of course. But the speculation is based on stuff Taylor has talked about and I believe if given more rein to freely write with Jagger and get properly recognized for his ideas and contributions, Black and Blue could have been a much better record. I'd even go so far as to speculate that the Stones would have remained golden for at least another decade. Mick and Keith writing and playing everything (big job) was part of the problem. Andy Johns quotes Taylor as saying almost all of his ideas were being shot down. It's not like he wasn't trying or able.....

I love Some Girls (and Love You Live), but I think I would have loved them even more with MT, no doubt it would have been different. peace

Didn't the Eagles sack Johns because he was the one that was difficult to deal with. Producers are employed by the band, not the other way round.

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lapaz62
Didn't the Eagles sack Johns because he was the one that was difficult to deal with. Producers are employed by the band, not the other way round.

According to Bill Szymczyk:

Glyn perceived The Eagles as more of a vocal group and Frey and Henley were ready to rock and roll. They had a falling out and Szymczyk was hired.

"During our initial meeting, Henley asked me how many mics I'd use on a set of drums and I told him eight or nine. Glyn Johns was known for using three. Then, when Glenn Frey wanted to know how long he could work on his guitar solos, I told him, 'As long as it takes.' They wanted to rock and that's what I did, so it was a good marriage.”

I get the feeling Glyn's intolerance of drug use in the studio probably had something to do with their parting too.

I think good Producers almost become part of the band, often making decisions and suggestions along with the musicians. Engineers are more just employees paid to get the sound recorded. I think Glyn is a better Engineer than Producer, but of course the line between the two is sometimes kind of gray. peace

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Naturalust

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lapaz62
Didn't the Eagles sack Johns because he was the one that was difficult to deal with. Producers are employed by the band, not the other way round.

According to Bill Szymczyk:

Glyn perceived The Eagles as more of a vocal group and Frey and Henley were ready to rock and roll. They had a falling out and Szymczyk was hired.

"During our initial meeting, Henley asked me how many mics I'd use on a set of drums and I told him eight or nine. Glyn Johns was known for using three. Then, when Glenn Frey wanted to know how long he could work on his guitar solos, I told him, 'As long as it takes.' They wanted to rock and that's what I did, so it was a good marriage.”

I get the feeling Glyn's intolerance of drug use in the studio probably had something to do with their parting too.

I think good Producers almost become part of the band, often making decisions and suggestions along with the musicians. Engineers are more just employees paid to get the sound recorded. I think Glyn is a better Engineer than Producer, but of course the line between the two is sometimes kind of gray. peace

It's pretty clear that good bands have turned not so good Producers into Millionaires as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-02 07:51 by lapaz62.

It does allign with a remark by Keith about Taylor, from the early 80's I believe. Richards stated something like 'Taylor thought he could do it all, write, produce, play drums and keyboards, but in the end all he is is a lead guitarist. A marvelous one though'.

Mathijs

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mtaylor

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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Redhotcarpet
It could also indicate that Jagger/Taylor worked alone in the studio.

That's something we pretty much know is true from "Winter". The only reason other members of the band are not at the studio at times is because they're not that interested in the toil of it. From my perspective the door was open to all band members and during Keith's lazy days I believe Taylor tried to stay handy for Mick. Usually when album credits were written they got passed around to those involved, many times arguments ensue between musicians, producers and engineers. For IORR it appears Taylor was blind-sided, as we know he was disappointed in the way it was presented.

Hell, why does Keith have to show up at all.... he knows he'll get 1/2 the credit regardless. I wish we had more strictly Taylor/Jagger collaborations from that time because every one of them turned out to be fantastic...a high point in both their creative careers. peace

From Taylor's perspective it must have been quite depressing since the work he was doing was first rate. That along with a steady diet of dope and a world of yes men gave him enough of a blurred vision to quit the band. In The Stones defense, they are very old school and go back to the days where the principle members ruled, image and how the Glimmers are perceived may be the key to having a 50 year old rock band. They could look at Mick Taylor and say he owed them this and more for making him the a star in the their legendary band.

Some would say his vision was pretty clear...it kept him alive. Success at the level of the Stones may seem like such a hard thing to give up, but dealing with Keith and the people around him at that time wouldn't be worth it to lots of folks. Who knew the Stones would survive as well as they have? Without the Toronto bust would Some Girls have been made? Would Keith have lived into the 1980's? Maybe, but the Stones would have surely been a lot different, imo.

Looking at Keith in 1975 he's barely there....no judgement intended, I know that was "cool" to lots of folks and fans at the time, most have probably learned different by now though. Taylor may have been ready to give all that up, but sadly didn't know how hard it would be and how long it would take him.





peace

Lot's of speculations. Taylor made a good job while being in Stones. But we should not forget that the big job was still done by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, that is playing and writing the music.

To me that is a bit naive. Im not saying Keith didnt produce, he did, but I maintain that people they invited or had in the band did a lot more that just "inspire"; Cooder, Jones, Hopkins, Taylor (who really worked with Jagger), Preston (also coworking a lot) Wyman, Miller, Parsons and actually Ron Wood ( who should be credited for a lot more imo).

How many songs did Taylor and Mick work together on, 8? 10? Were they big hits?

Let's put things in the right perspective here. Many of those songs are really great, but when we sum it up those songs are just a drop in Mick and Keith's ocean of songs.

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DandelionPowderman
How many songs did Taylor and Mick work together on, 8? 10? Were they big hits?

Let's put things in the right perspective here. Many of those songs are really great, but when we sum it up those songs are just a drop in Mick and Keith's ocean of songs.

Yeah of course but Mick and Keith have been working together considerably longer. And who cares about hits? I think the point was that almost every song MT was heavily involved in at the time was really good, he didn't seem to have any duds, imo. What he could have done given the opportunity to compose with a great lyricist and composer like Mick would likely have been stunning.

I think Taylors ability to take great ideas from Mick and develop them was something special, different from Keith of course, but somehow truly magical. More melodic, more musicianship showing and still very Stones. The catalyst to Taylor's production was obviously Jagger...also Keith secret weapon for many years. If Taylor has any regrets about leaving the Stones I'd bet they have more to do with not being able to continue collaborating with Jagger than anything else. I'm guessing (speculating) that Keith saw this too and was a bit intimidated and insecure about it, especially in his severely addicted state, and that contributed to his (mis)treatment of Taylor at the time.

peace

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DandelionPowderman
How many songs did Taylor and Mick work together on, 8? 10? Were they big hits?

Let's put things in the right perspective here. Many of those songs are really great, but when we sum it up those songs are just a drop in Mick and Keith's ocean of songs.

Good thoughts, but the right perspective is not possible for us because we simply were not there at the time, right in the "eye of the hurricane". Apart from that, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Time Waits For No One and others may not have been "big hits", but without them, the musical output of the band may have looked a great deal poorer during that time period. I don't really count Exile because this one benefitted a lot from a "cleaning of the vaults" really, using many leftovers and "loose ends" from 1969 onwards, quite like Tattoo You, with admittedly marvellous results. But after Exile, the well was obviously a bit dry and for new releases, they had to come up with fresh ideas.

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Mathijs
It does allign with a remark by Keith about Taylor, from the early 80's I believe. Richards stated something like 'Taylor thought he could do it all, write, produce, play drums and keyboards, but in the end all he is is a lead guitarist. A marvelous one though'.

Mathijs

I bet if we look far enough back there's a similar quote regarding Brian and his tinkering with various instruments and production, I sense an ugly pattern here.

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
How many songs did Taylor and Mick work together on, 8? 10? Were they big hits?

Let's put things in the right perspective here. Many of those songs are really great, but when we sum it up those songs are just a drop in Mick and Keith's ocean of songs.

Yeah of course but Mick and Keith have been working together considerably longer. And who cares about hits? I think the point was that almost every song MT was heavily involved in at the time was really good, he didn't seem to have any duds, imo. What he could have done given the opportunity to compose with a great lyricist and composer like Mick would likely have been stunning.

I think Taylors ability to take great ideas from Mick and develop them was something special, different from Keith of course, but somehow truly magical. More melodic, more musicianship showing and still very Stones. The catalyst to Taylor's production was obviously Jagger...also Keith secret weapon for many years. If Taylor has any regrets about leaving the Stones I'd bet they have more to do with not being able to continue collaborating with Jagger than anything else. I'm guessing (speculating) that Keith saw this too and was a bit intimidated and insecure about it, especially in his severely addicted state, and that contributed to his (mis)treatment of Taylor at the time.

peace

I think that's the wrong part. They weren't necessarily better songs (the hit-part was just a joke).

Compared to the songs from the same time span on LIB, SF, EOMS, GHS and IORR, where Mick and Keith wrote together, there isn't a significant quality leap in the songs where Taylor supposedly was more involved, only within the quality of his guitar playing.

Some songs are better (Moonlight Mile), some songs feature better solo playing (Sway), some songs are poor, but feature better solo playing (TWFNO) and some songs are just mediocre (Till The Next Goodbye, which is one of the two or three songs he claimed to have co-written).

So, it's easy to get carried away with the lovely guitar playing, and who doesn't? I've been on that ride myself for years.

But to compare the few songs where Mick and Taylor collaborated closer with the best songs from the Stones canon in 69-74 - well, it just isn't as easy as some of you make it seem



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-02 21:50 by DandelionPowderman.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman
How many songs did Taylor and Mick work together on, 8? 10? Were they big hits?

Let's put things in the right perspective here. Many of those songs are really great, but when we sum it up those songs are just a drop in Mick and Keith's ocean of songs.

Good thoughts, but the right perspective is not possible for us because we simply were not there at the time, right in the "eye of the hurricane". Apart from that, Moonlight Mile, Winter, 100 Years Ago, Time Waits For No One and others may not have been "big hits", but without them, the musical output of the band may have looked a great deal poorer during that time period. I don't really count Exile because this one benefitted a lot from a "cleaning of the vaults" really, using many leftovers and "loose ends" from 1969 onwards, quite like Tattoo You, with admittedly marvellous results. But after Exile, the well was obviously a bit dry and for new releases, they had to come up with fresh ideas.

I don't disagree with this, but keep in mind that there are many fans who don't necessarily regard GHS and IORR as highly as the earlier albums, including Taylor fans.

AND: TWFNO is not one of "those" songs, as Keith both played on it, sang on it, soloed on it (albeit short), played guitar synth on it (!) and wrote it with Mick. Taylor coloured it more than nicely.

The "hit-part" was a joke, but never a joke without some truth involved. There aren't that many songs released where Taylor and Mick worked that closely together. I'm not sure, even on GHS and IORR, that those songs are the better ones, when we compare with Angie, Coming Down Again, If You Can't Rock Me, Fingerprint File and Luxury. Let's call it a draw, and keep it levelled?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-02 22:08 by DandelionPowderman.

All speculating, I'd say, regarding various reasons for Taylor's leaving the band.

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DandelionPowderman

The "hit-part" was a joke, but never a joke without some truth involved. There aren't that many songs released where Taylor and Mick worked that closely together. I'm not sure, even on GHS and IORR, that those songs are the better ones, when we compare with Angie, Coming Down Again, If You Can't Rock Me, Fingerprint File and Luxury. Let's call it a draw, and keep it levelled?

No doubt Keith still had it in him to produce fantastic stuff with Mick. Obviously Taylor did too. Now, bring Wood into the mix...has he worked on any tunes with Jagger without Keith around? Didn't he have the bones of IORR with Bowie and Jagger before Keith stole it for the Stones? In any case it seems the dynamic changed pretty quickly back to Mick and Keith. peace

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DandelionPowderman

The "hit-part" was a joke, but never a joke without some truth involved. There aren't that many songs released where Taylor and Mick worked that closely together. I'm not sure, even on GHS and IORR, that those songs are the better ones, when we compare with Angie, Coming Down Again, If You Can't Rock Me, Fingerprint File and Luxury. Let's call it a draw, and keep it levelled?

No doubt Keith still had it in him to produce fantastic stuff with Mick. Obviously Taylor did too. Now, bring Wood into the mix...has he worked on any tunes with Jagger without Keith around? Didn't he have the bones of IORR with Bowie and Jagger before Keith stole it for the Stones? In any case it seems the dynamic changed pretty quickly back to Mick and Keith. peace

In retrospect I don't think it did, at least not like it was up to say Exile, because after Taylor left Mick worked closely with Preston on B&B and wrote a lot of SG on his own. It seems that even after Taylor left Mick and Keith's writing partnership never resumed. They seem to have more or less wrote separately, sometimes adding to what the other wrote and other times not. I'm not saying that true song collaboration didn't happen between the two but it seems more the exception than the norm.