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buffalo7478
I find it interesting he snapped at Taylor for playing instruments other than his guitar...saying the Stones already had a drummer, etc.

But if I am not mistaken, Jimmy Miller played drums for the Stones, Bill Plummer on bass, Keith playing rhythm then overdubbing lead guitar, etc all had happened or were happening...not to mention maybe people like Dave Mason adding to tracks in the late 60s.

Wonder in Johns thought the same of those instances. Did he yell at Jimmy Miller?

This snippet makes him sound kind of like an @#$%&.

I will have to read the book. The guy worked on some amazing records.

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

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gotdablouse
How about this, a dream come true and now gone forever...

[www.youtube.com]

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

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Naturalust

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

Love to hear some stories by or about Jimmy Miller. There is very little published about the man who made such great Stones records and I don't think I'm alone in wanting to hear more. Thanks.

peace

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

I agree with Johns writing the book, I just wish it was a better book...

Magic Alex had nothing whatsoever to do with the Get Back sessions other than installing a useless "studio" at Apple. The really negative-vibe sessions took place at Twickenham before they moved to Apple. Many reasons for it being a near-disaster: Paul's bossiness, the others' lack of interest, John on heroin, Yoko, being filmed, sessions starting too early in the morning, the others not taking an interest in George's songs, etc., but Magic Alex doesn't figure there at all.

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

I agree with Johns writing the book, I just wish it was a better book...

Magic Alex had nothing whatsoever to do with the Get Back sessions other than installing a useless "studio" at Apple. The really negative-vibe sessions took place at Twickenham before they moved to Apple. Many reasons for it being a near-disaster: Paul's bossiness, the others' lack of interest, John on heroin, Yoko, being filmed, sessions starting too early in the morning, the others not taking an interest in George's songs, etc., but Magic Alex doesn't figure there at all.

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom

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71Tele

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DoomandGloom
Johns clearly wanted to be known as a producer for The Beatles and The Stones. While that might not add up to big points on either project the credibility would get him plenty of fat work... It's very natural and I've seen quite a few attempted coup d'etat's in the studio. On such a high level as The Stones or The Beatles it's really not possible to muscle them, in the Beatles' world of Martin and Spector, how can you jump them? Miller was the greatest of them all, not afraid to do the dirty work himself, just needed a bottle of brown whiskey nearby. or was it Vodka? Jimmy Miller's merits as a producer comes from his great sense of groove and how to pick the right take. He knew how to leave the meat of the song to the artist once he knew the rest was correct. Shortly before his death I was lucky enough to jam with Jimmy, we snuck into a Billy Idol pre-set and had ourselves a time. Even in his final days, overweight and hurting he set the grooves. Of course I had no idea this would be but it's likely the last jam he ever had..He told me many stories about The Stones, Traffic and Blind Faith, I try to share them with you guys when they come to mind.

Great. I was hoping you wouldn't end that sentence with "but it's not my place to share those stories" a la Glyn Johns.

Well I won't share a particularly negative or private story. I believe those lucky enough to work with such icons share the responsibility in keeping their legends alive. To defend Johns, he's not just a technician as someone stated earlier. Merely being able to maneuver and succeed in these worlds back in "the day" is an incredible testimony to his business and personal skills. Imagine the demands of a Beatle session where the two biggest stars in the world see things opposite and are playing you, plus recording George while they're trying to hold him back? Get Back was a big mess mostly due to Magic Alex and other lousy sources. Putting the blame on Johns for not making Let It Be as good as Spector did is misplaced. Phil was a highly skilled producer who's mind could edit and superimpose stuff on par with a modern Pro Tools session. Plus he was given a free hand and a grand budget, I suppose, to make the "last" Beatle album happen.
I had moments where I was double teamed by The Glimmers and it's not easy to sleep. if they allow you to have any. Johns' had to deal with really stoned bosses at the pinnacle of their pomposity. I don't agree with him writing the book but he must have been incredible in the control room.

I agree with Johns writing the book, I just wish it was a better book...

Magic Alex had nothing whatsoever to do with the Get Back sessions other than installing a useless "studio" at Apple. The really negative-vibe sessions took place at Twickenham before they moved to Apple. Many reasons for it being a near-disaster: Paul's bossiness, the others' lack of interest, John on heroin, Yoko, being filmed, sessions starting too early in the morning, the others not taking an interest in George's songs, etc., but Magic Alex doesn't figure there at all.

But the "roof top" was recorded using "Alex's" studio or not really?

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whitem8
tele I think the point Doom is making, and quite a valid one, was with the Beatles by the time of the Get Back sessions, they were surrounded by hangers ons (The Longest Cocktail Party) who exasperated the problems with their own relationships. John totally believe in Magic Alex and he fell for Klein and by the time of them having to move back to record in their studio, they couldn't because of the scam of Magic Alex. John was in a narcotic haze and resented the other three and seemed to want to actually sabotage the group by bringing in Yoko and letting her speak for him, fighting with George in the studio, and by some accounts punching George. Which led George to walk out, and Lennon to bitterly say, "fvch George! We can get Eric to join!".
The historian in me is fascinated by the myth of John and Paul fighting, and George and Paul fighting. And the film of George and Paul arguing over the guitar part as being indicative of their entire relationship. But in reality, John and George really went at it tooth and nail. John had little patience for George, and seems to have become quite bored with his music and belittled him quite often. And George hated Yoko and was totally pissed that John was so uninvolved with the band. Coming with very little material, yet blocking George's stuff.
The book, Get Back: The Unauthorized Chronicle of the Beatles' " Let It Be" Disaster, is a fascinating chronicle of that time in their history. The authors obtained a majority of the Get Back session tapes and transcribed them by day! So basically you read a script and they summarize incidents. Very interesting primary source material. I think you guys would like it.
I think Johns was brilliant and a lot of his work was helping to form some amazing production and engineering styles that brought out the best from the groups he was working with. And his personality, being very neutral and unobtrusive, helped him navigate the massive egos he was working with. Unfortunately, his personality led him to write a pretty sterile unobtrusive book about a exciting historical moment in music. The book is quite "old school" British Empire. Take it on the chin and what ever you do, never air your dirty laundry in public. But if you are going to be a writer and share a historical experience, readers and scholars will demand much more honesty and grit. Which, sadly, his book lacks.

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whitem8
Yeah, really when you look back on the dissolution of The Beatles, Paul gets the blame. But in actuality, it was John who quit, and made it almost impossible for The Beatles to continue. He basically became totally uninvolved and uninspired. Think about coming to the Get Back sessions with really only a few songs compared to McCartney and Harrison. Moving Yoko into the studio with them, which was formally a no go zone for anyone other than the four. So much so he moved her bed in the studio! He would refuse to talk in business meetings and Yoko did all the talking for him while he sat silent. During one meeting George stormed out of the meeting because John refused to talk. McCartney, being bossy for sure, but sensing that the one power card he could not really control was Lennon, backed off and tried to appease Lennon as much as possible. But to no avail. Lennon still announced at the eve of singing their new contract with EMI/Capital he was quitting. And he was talked into staying silent for the contract negotiations. But again, I don't really think it is anyone's fault, they had just run their course. So much time spent with each other and three of them really wanting to do more and more of their own art on their own terms. It was inevitable.

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dcba
Now I'm waiting for Rose Taylor to finally confess "how I talked hubby Mick into leaving the Stones!" A world-exclusive for "Simply Knitting" mag? ><

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ash
I think the "bed incident" was during the Abbey Road sessions as was the "bitch took one of my biscuits" incident..
If you can bare it and it's hard work even for a massive Beatle fan, the Nagra tapes do appear to suggest that among the many problems highlighted in this thread, John's attitude towards George (and his songs) is worse than poor. Newspaper reports at the time suggested the two had fought physically but by the time of the Apple sessions they're having a good laugh reading about it iirc. Though there is a gap on the tapes where the actual fight may have occurred, we do get to hear George say he's leaving the band and it doesn't sound like there had just been fisticuffs though you never know.
George also appears to have had big issues with Paul (going back years) regarding his bossiness (something which Maureen Starkey said was the main factor for Ringo leaving during the White Album sessions) but in fairness at least Paul makes decent attempts to contribute to George's songs in a meaningful way. It's pretty clear from the tapes that the bands personal relationships are a complete mess.
In retrospect, after the tension encountered during the White Album, they'd probably have been better off taking a decent break instead of getting together just over a month after releasing a double album - what's amazing is the number of songs they had or at least bits of songs...most of Abbey Road,a lot of All Things Must Pass,bits of Imagine, Ram, McCartney etc.. have already been started in addition to those songs that ended up on Let It Be.
It has to be said that Glyn John's choice of takes for mixing is somewhat surprising when other clearly better takes were available though in his defence the whole situation was pretty much a complete mess.
It is truly amazing that they played so well on the rooftop after the shocking nature of their playing in the previous weeks.

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71Tele
[
I have heard some of the Nagra tapes. When George presents one of his songs you can hear John say in a schoolmaster's voice "run along, Sonny, we're a rock & roll band you know".

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Naturalust

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71Tele
[
I have heard some of the Nagra tapes. When George presents one of his songs you can hear John say in a schoolmaster's voice "run along, Sonny, we're a rock & roll band you know".

Yeah, amazing he was eventually made so insecure around John and Paul that he didn't want to show them his great tune "Something". Took Glyn John's aside to show him and declare he wanted to record it alone.

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gotdablouse
I didn't know that Rose Taylor had ever gone on record about Mick's time/leaving the Stones? Or is it someone's idea of a joke?

As a a side note has it been explained why all the Taylor threads ("We want more Taylor" started by bv, or "Mick Taylor Solo Tour" ?) are getting close, is there a sense that these threads might somehow "annoy" the powers that be?