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paulywaul

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CaptainCorella

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paulywaul

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CaptainCorella
I've been watching the reports in the UK press about the 'disclosure' problems that Viagogo have got into. If I knew how to spell it I'd say Schaudenfrau.

But what I have not seen, perhaps I've missed, is how the people illegally and at high profit margins, have managed to get hold of these tickets in the first place.

If you use IORR, then you've probably tried to get a ticket online and legally from (say) Ticketmaster, and have tried at the very nan-second that they are released. Only to be met with a 'sold out'.

So how do the Viagogo associated scumbags get there first?

Well one of the things that Viagogo is in the s**t for is advertising tickets for sale that they do not actually HAVE. They sell 'speculatively' so to say. That is why they are so reluctant to quote seat numbers for example. If they succeed in selling a ticket to YOU for some absurd mark-up, then and only then do they scrabble around sourcing a ticket that (hopefully) matches the spec of what they've just sold you !!

If THAT isn't malpractice, I don't know what IS !!

Hmmm... Isn't that what a Stockbroker would call short selling! If it's OK on the Stock Market, why not Viagogo. Of course IMHO both are amoral practises.

But, offering to sell you a ticket that they do not (yet) have is not quite the same as the problem of ordinary people finding that an event is sold out within moments of tickets becoming available. And then seeing the tickets on offer on Viagogo.

The simple explanation is that a primary agency (like Ticketmaster) works 'in cahoots' with a preferred re-seller, allocating them a certain quota of tickets right from the outset. THAT is why practically THE moment a 'public sale' of tickets for any particular event commences, it shows up to you and I as 'sold out' - because once you take out of the 'offering' all the various 'allocations' from the primary agency to the 'bulk buyers' - there's as good as f**k all left !! Those tickets in reality never ever hit the narket for you and I at face value, they're siphoned off 'immediately' to various bulk buyers, marked up in price, and listed. It all takes place within more often than not even BEFORE the official designated start tine of the public sale !! Talk about 'adding insult to injury' !!

If you scroll back a few pages through this thread, you'll find a significant flurry of posts relating to this activity, posted by SOMETORONTOGIRL. Specifically, these posts chart the story of a couple of Canadian investigative journalists that blew this story wide open by exposing this 'arrangement' that Ticketmaster had with their preferred bulk buyers, and the dedicated software that was used by both these parties to make quick and easy work of the bulk buyers' ticket 'listings' !!
As a result of this 'exposé', Ticketmaster themselves are now the subject of a massive litigation action/bulk lawsuit ... !!

I can't wait until the supporting documents come out in discovery to figure out who these preferred scalpers are and how they are beating the roadblocks the development team at Ticketmaster.com keep throwing up against site power users, that often lock out the "real fans" in the process.

Of course there were quite a few errors of perception in the Toronto Star piece.

And these continue among fans, like when Bikini Kill sold out 3 shows at the Hollywood Palladium and jilted fans were whining and howling about "bots" and "scalpers" getting "all" the tickets, in part fueled by really shitty journalism in various music sites. I checked the secondary count and found about 7% of the house for sale. Now this number did tick upward but I suspect that was the "real fans" with tickets getting wind of the situation and deciding to cash in instead.

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CaptainCorella

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paulywaul

The simple explanation is that a primary agency (like Ticketmaster) works 'in cahoots' with a preferred re-seller, allocating them a certain quota of tickets right from the outset. THAT is why practically THE moment a 'public sale' of tickets for any particular event commences, it shows up to you and I as 'sold out' - because once you take out of the 'offering' all the various 'allocations' from the primary agency to the 'bulk buyers' - there's as good as f**k all left !! Those tickets in reality never ever hit the narket for you and I at face value, they're siphoned off 'immediately' to various bulk buyers, marked up in price, and listed. It all takes place within more often than not even BEFORE the official designated start tine of the public sale !! Talk about 'adding insult to injury' !!

If you scroll back a few pages through this thread, you'll find a significant flurry of posts relating to this activity, posted by SOMETORONTOGIRL. Specifically, these posts chart the story of a couple of Canadian investigative journalists that blew this story wide open by exposing this 'arrangement' that Ticketmaster had with their preferred bulk buyers, and the dedicated software that was used by both these parties to make quick and easy work of the bulk buyers' ticket 'listings' !!
As a result of this 'exposé', Ticketmaster themselves are now the subject of a massive litigation action/bilk lawsuit ... !!

Thanks. I obviously missed sometorontogirl's postings. Sorry. All credit to the journalists who exposed that angle to the Viagogo scumbag operation.

Worth noting that a few years ago I got really angry about all of this and tried to do something about it (at least making sure that our favourite band knew what it was like at the coal face buying tikets). I eventually got a friendly, personal, and very suportive email from Joyce Smyth who clearly said that the bands were as much against it as the fans and that that the sooner it was all shut down the better.

And the band could make those red dots go away too. Many bands refuse to allow their tickets sold via Ticketmaster resale.

Just heard about a recent sh*tshow with TM 'verified tickets' for upcoming Phish tour.

Those who were 'chosen' as 'verified fans' were given a code allowing them exclusive access at pit and lower pavilion seating at the same time as regular sale was going on. Apparently, many of the codes didn't even work and people who managed to get them to actually work, had their order dumped before they got to checkout.

Looking at the rants on FB, seems very few truly got what they were promised by TM.

Seems like just another media stunt to give the impression they actually give two f*cks about 'real fans' and are trying to combat bots and resellers.

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mosthigh
Just heard about a recent sh*tshow with TM 'verified tickets' for upcoming Phish tour.

Those who were 'chosen' as 'verified fans' were given a code allowing them exclusive access at pit and lower pavilion seating at the same time as regular sale was going on. Apparently, many of the codes didn't even work and people who managed to get them to actually work, had their order dumped before they got to checkout.

Looking at the rants on FB, seems very few truly got what they were promised by TM.

Seems like just another media stunt to give the impression they actually give two f*cks about 'real fans' and are trying to combat bots and resellers.

It's a data harvesting scheme.

I'm not surprised to see this ...

[www.cbc.ca]

Rolling Stones fan calls out Ticketmaster for 'bait and switch' after mid-sale price jump

Customer wins lower price after shooting video showing $60 jump without warning

A fan of the Rolling Stones is accusing Ticketmaster of pulling a "bait and switch" while he was buying tickets for the band's Canada Day weekend concert north of Toronto.

Edward Mair went online shortly after 10 a.m. Wednesday hoping to land four tickets during the show's presale period for members of the Rolling Stones mailing list.

But after adding the tickets to his cart, he noticed the price jumped from $119.50 to $179.50 per ticket, without any warning during the checkout process.

Mair then tried to buy the tickets again while filming the screen.

"They said, 'Congratulations, you got the seats.' [They] just didn't make any mention that the price had changed," Mair told CBC Toronto.

The Toronto man, who buys tickets for more than 50 events every year, said he'd never seen ticket prices change so surreptitiously.

"When that happens, they notify you that they've put you to different tickets and the price has changed," he said. "That's not what happened here. They just changed the price in the lower corner."

Mair bought the tickets, which totaled $801.50, but later contacted Ticketmaster for an explanation about why the price appeared to jump during the transaction.

After contacting Ticketmaster and sending video of the transaction, he says the company has agreed to honour the $119.50 tickets he originally tried to buy.

The offer came after more than a day of back-and-forth communications, in which he said the company initially balked at the request and suggested that he incorrectly added the tickets to the cart.

Customers 'automatically redirected'
In a statement, a spokesperson for live-concert company Republic Live said presale tickets were limited and divided into different price tiers. The spokesperson said customers were being "automatically redirected" to the next price tier when cheaper tickets sold out.

However, the company did not explain why Mair was able to add the $119.50 tickets to his shopping cart if they were no longer available.

"We are aware of the issue and are encouraging purchasers to contact Ticketmaster.ca directly to discuss any inquiries related to their purchase," the statement continued.

Ticketmaster has not responded to multiple inquiries from CBC Toronto.

'Drip pricing' a problem
"This isn't going to help," said Alan Cross, a Toronto music journalist who has covered ticketing issues. "What this does is it adds to the confusion of buying tickets online."

After watching Mair's video, Cross wondered if the price jump was a case of "drip pricing," in which an advertised price increases after a slew of added fees are added to the bill.

He said Ticketmaster has done a poor job of making it clear to customers why extra fees are added and what they cover.

"Things aren't itemized as clearly as they could be in the ticketing process," Cross said.

"This will not endear people to Ticketmaster any further."

As general sale tickets for the concert go on sale Friday, he's advising customers to monitor their screen "very carefully" during the checkout process.

The Stones are scheduled to play June 29 at the outdoor Burl's Creek Event Grounds in Oro-Medonte, Ont., a sprawling space about 130 kilometres northeast of Toronto.

It is the final date and only Canadian stop on the band's North American tour.

'Fighting bots' adds stress
While Mair spotted the price jump, he said the stress of buying tickets online makes it likely that other customers will go through the process without noticing the change.

During the rush to buy presale tickets in the moments after they go on sale, Mair said the goal of simply obtaining the tickets can make it hard to pay attention to details.

"As everybody knows, you're fighting bots, you're trying to get through these tickets as fast as you can, competing with everybody," he said. "It's a nightmare to try to get tickets as a regular person."

Within that article there's a link to this story ........

[www.cbc.ca]

<<< Re: OT: TICKET SCALPING ...the end might be coming into sight new

Posted by: ChrisL ()

Date: February 15, 2019 14:28


I'm not surprised to see this ... >>>

Nope, me neither. TM up to their usual tricks ... a**holes !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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peoplewitheyes
forgive me for being late to the party, but are StubHub and Viagogo both just secondary market exploiting b!stards?

I am trying to get tickets for Arctic Monkeys in Mexico... TicketMaster claim to be sold out (of General tix) and StubHub and Viagogo seem to be crazy expensive.

Any thoughts?

(Twickets, who I had a great experience getting tickets for the AM UK shows, doesn't seem to be active in Mexico...)

Pretty sure I said this before to somebody going to Mexico:

Just go. Try to "scalp" outside the show....will likely be cheaper (esp. if you wait until after the 1st song has started).

If you don't get tix, then just enjoy a vacation in Mexico and give your money back to the people/country there rather than the scum at StubHub.

Thanks Sticky101, actually I live in Mexico, and it is indeed a wonderful country, I was just trying to see how I could get hold of some AM tickets without selling a kidney.

I still haven't found any real options, so I might just head to CDMX and try my luck on show day.

(I did the same with the Stones in 2006, there were no tix to be found, but I joined the huge party with the other ticketless fans outside the stadium!)

This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

We do enjoy a good rant - indeed !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Did TM ever launch the "Verified Resale Tickets" program at face value in the US ?

In the meantime AXS is launching one for the O2 and SSE Arenas with a 10% cap on the fair value : [www.pollstar.com]

"According to AEG, there is a ten-percent cap on the original price paid to help prevent touting. "AXS Official Resale will be the only way to officially and safely resell and buy tickets bought through the venues or AXS.com. Customers who buy tickets from other resale platforms, risk having their tickets cancelled and entry denied."

The technology will be used for the first time at The O2 from April 14, and at The SSE Arena, Wembley from April 18, and applies to all new events going on-sale."

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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peoplewitheyes
Thanks Sticky101, actually I live in Mexico, and it is indeed a wonderful country, I was just trying to see how I could get hold of some AM tickets without selling a kidney.

I still haven't found any real options, so I might just head to CDMX and try my luck on show day.

(I did the same with the Stones in 2006, there were no tix to be found, but I joined the huge party with the other ticketless fans outside the stadium!)

Good luck! Hang on to those Kidneys! Viva Mexico!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-04-12 16:12 by stickyfingers101.

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gotdablouse
Did TM ever launch the "Verified Resale Tickets" program at face value in the US ?

In the meantime AXS is launching one for the O2 and SSE Arenas with a 10% cap on the fair value : [www.pollstar.com]

"According to AEG, there is a ten-percent cap on the original price paid to help prevent touting. "AXS Official Resale will be the only way to officially and safely resell and buy tickets bought through the venues or AXS.com. Customers who buy tickets from other resale platforms, risk having their tickets cancelled and entry denied."

The technology will be used for the first time at The O2 from April 14, and at The SSE Arena, Wembley from April 18, and applies to all new events going on-sale."

Life is getting more and more difficult for the one remaining a**hole company in the scalping business (Viagogo - in case anyone needs a clue ) that is still clinging on for dear life and refuses to read the writing on the wall. Had to happen sooner or later ! Good on AXS !

As the thread title says ... "SCALPING - the end might now (truly) be coming into sight" !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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grzegorz67

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

My last post wasn't a full blown rant ... kind of a "mini-rant" really !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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paulywaul

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grzegorz67

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

My last post wasn't a full blown rant ... kind of a "mini-rant" really !

Ticket Master sent me an e-mail, recently, asking me if I wanted to sell my "Lucky dip " Tix for the Miami concert. I'm scratching my head over that one.

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Chris Fountain

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paulywaul

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grzegorz67

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

My last post wasn't a full blown rant ... kind of a "mini-rant" really !

Ticket Master sent me an e-mail, recently, asking me if I wanted to sell my "Lucky dip " Tix for the Miami concert. I'm scratching my head over that one.

Platinum Lucky Dips?

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Chris Fountain

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paulywaul

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grzegorz67

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

My last post wasn't a full blown rant ... kind of a "mini-rant" really !

Ticket Master sent me an e-mail, recently, asking me if I wanted to sell my "Lucky dip " Tix for the Miami concert. I'm scratching my head over that one.

That's a new one ... !

Whatever next ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain

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paulywaul

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grzegorz67

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paulywaul

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Chris Fountain
This issue will go on for many generations and eras ahead. There is no end to Human greed that ultimately Leads to unfulfilled satisfaction.

Suspect you are right. 'Scalping' per se will invariably always be a feature of life & of the live entertainment industry, but perhaps the worst excesses of it (exemplified by the 'secondary market' that really developed in recent years as a child of the internet age) can finally be curbed to some reasonable degree. It'll never be fully eradicated - I agree.

Besides, we wouldn't have your entertaining rants to read any more

Much as I dislike viagogo and co, they can occasionally be useful in the event of an undersold show when prices fall to their market value. You can be sure that the primary seller quietly shift unsold tickets for shows via this route too.

My last post wasn't a full blown rant ... kind of a "mini-rant" really !

Ticket Master sent me an e-mail, recently, asking me if I wanted to sell my "Lucky dip " Tix for the Miami concert. I'm scratching my head over that one.

That's a new one ... !

Whatever next ?

The -email said "Can you still make it? If not sell here"


This occurred prior to the medical procedure.

i was duped by viagogo into buying the warsaw gig last year.

my own fault, i jumped in quick, but they did bait and switch during the buying process, showed me a price then and only when i had clicked buy, they showed me the higher price i will pay, tried to cancel through my bank, i couldnt, and emailed viagogo several times to let them know how i felt, eventually got a response saying i had agreed to the price shown which was bullsh@t.

dont regret buying the ticket but would preffered the extra money to go to the band or its staff and not viagogo excecutives.

glad they are being called out, advice to anyone

DO NOT GO NEAR VIAGOGO EVER.

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buttons67
i was duped by viagogo into buying the warsaw gig last year.

my own fault, i jumped in quick, but they did bait and switch during the buying process, showed me a price then and only when i had clicked buy, they showed me the higher price i will pay, tried to cancel through my bank, i couldnt, and emailed viagogo several times to let them know how i felt, eventually got a response saying i had agreed to the price shown which was bullsh@t.

dont regret buying the ticket but would preffered the extra money to go to the band or its staff and not viagogo excecutives.

glad they are being called out, advice to anyone

DO NOT GO NEAR VIAGOGO EVER.

Viagogo these days are living on borrowed time. Everybody knows it, at least ... pretty much everybody, with the exception of er ... Viagogo. They really are IDIOTS.

After years and years of complaints, scandals, revelations, rising public anger, and eventually - reluctant involvement by governments to look at the issue and legislate if necessary, the ticket scalping business/secondary market is finally getting its comeuppance. Not a moment too soon

As I said earlier, Viagogo are hanging on for grim life in today's fast changing world, they're now resembling something of a last remaining dinosaur that hasn't quite heard the pronouncement that they are yesterday's news - and that's time to go 'extinct' !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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ChrisL
I'm not surprised to see this ...

[www.cbc.ca]

Rolling Stones fan calls out Ticketmaster for 'bait and switch' after mid-sale price jump

They were also doing this for Celine Dion this week.

The article is focused on Metallica, doesn't mention other bands...


Live Nation Confirms Placing Tickets Directly on Secondary Market at Artists’ Request

[variety.com]

Viagogo found guilty of misleading consumers

GREAT NEWS

[www.theguardian.com]

The company falsely claimed it was an official outlet and charged ‘extraordinarily high’ booking fees

Australian Associated Press

Thu 18 Apr 2019 15.14 AEST

Federal court finds ticket reseller Viagogo was found guilty of misleading consumers and claiming tickets, including concerts by Queen, were about to sell out.

A ticket reseller that slugged Australian sport, theatre and music fans booking fees of up to $52 misled them on several fronts, a judge has found.

Swiss-based ticket marketplace Viagogo – which resold tickets to events including tennis’ Australian Open, Ashes cricket matches and Queen concerts – falsely claimed to customers it was an official ticket seller, federal court Justice Stephen Burley said on Thursday.

It also broke the law by claiming tickets were about to sell out and by not stating clearly how much it would charge in booking fees.

In one case, a Victorian psychiatric nurse was charged $104.98 in fees when she booked two tickets to comedy theatre show The Book of Mormon in 2017.

The woman said several warnings that tickets were running out made her feel anxious and that she paid the fees as she was worried she’d lose her tickets.

Competition watchdog chief Rod Sims said Viagogo used claims like “less than 1% tickets” remaining to create a false sense of urgency.

“Viagogo was charging extraordinarily high booking fees and many consumers were caught out,” the ACCC chief said in a statement.

The court will decide penalties and orders against Viagogo at a later date.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

That's nice but the cynical side of me knows the culprits will re-group somewhere else and continue these type of practices. Good to see a court rule something in the right way though, for what it's worth.

And in another blow to this scumbag organisation, Google have taken some action against them.

Report here... [www.bbc.com]

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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frankotero
That's nice but the cynical side of me knows the culprits will re-group somewhere else and continue these type of practices. Good to see a court rule something in the right way though, for what it's worth.

you are 100% correct.

they will simply re-brand as another name.

happens all the time....ex. Blackwater = Xe Services.

we've sold our souls to this technology....there is no way out of it now.

they always get away with it.

i bet this organisations employees never lose a penny in fines.

i bet thier scumbag directors never lose thier massive wages.

its time to jail these culprits once and for all.

and the politicians that turn a blind eye to thier disgusting illegal practices.

please everyone dont deal with these clowns, starve them of cash and they go bust,

WoW. Huge surprise. who would have believed it. Crooks in the tix biz--no way.