Quote
Rolling Hansie

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paulywaul

So the question is, how come Ticketmaster were selling a ticket for a total of GBP £588.50 on 1st March, when the same ticket could be bought for GBP £437.70 some 4 days later on 5th March through AXS ?

Your friend's ticket. Type: Official Platinum Tickets
You ticket. Ticket Details: General Admission - No Filter Pit B

Not exactly the same tickets

You are 100 percent incorrect !! They are absolutely the same ticket, they are both for PIT B. I met my friend on the day and we were both standing next to each other in there. So I repeat, they are exactly the same ticket !

The point is this: The whole 'platinum ticket' thing is indicative of the extent to which Ticketmaster has (a) scalped its own tickets, and (b) fooled and deceived the public by creating 'false demand' and/or withholding certain tickets from their set face value price and hiking the price.

WHY was one Pit B ticket being sold by a primary ticket agency on 1st March, when another primary ticket agency was selling the exact identical ticket 4 days later on 5th March for some £GBP £150 less ?

There's nothing remotely 'platinum' (or any other name you wish to allocate to the ticket) about it. What we have are two primary ticket agencies selling the identical product, and yet one of them hikes the price by GBP £150. The mere fact that four days after Ticketmaster were happy to withhold £438 tickets from sale by branding them 'platinum' and raising the price by £150, AXS were selling them at the correct face value price - should tell you what went on. What went on is that they deceived the consumer and effectively scalped their own tickets. And in case you're too gullible or blind to see that, or too unwilling to take it onboard, it is precisely because of having functioned like that for years now, that they are finally the subject of a class action lawsuit !

Get it ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-01 17:00 by paulywaul.

Quote
paulywaul
You are 100 percent incorrect

Thank you. I thought the "platinum" stuff was part of some package with extra's.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie

Quote
paulywaul
You are 100 percent incorrect

Thank you. I thought the "platinum" stuff was part of some package with extra's.

A pleasure

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Quote
treaclefingers
I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Back in May 2014 when I started this thread, it was entitled: The definitive anti-scalper thread - let them choke on it !! Around p7 of the thread I changed the title to what it is now, namely: OT: TICKET SCALPING ... the end might be coming into sight.

The reason I changed the title was that sometime in 2015, more and more articles started cropping up in the press about the innumerable negatives of the secondary market, about government investigations (here in the U.K. anyway) into the working practices of those companies involved, about 'tweaks' to consumer laws, and so on. And since then, so for the last three years lets say, the 'exposures' have been coming in thick and fast. The clamour for 'doing something' about a runaway system, permanently rigged against the consumer, has become louder and louder. Hence we currently find ourselves in the last quarter of 2018, where the foremost primary ticket agency in the world (lets not forget) is now finally being held to account for its massive contributory role in promoting/facilitating ticket scalping on a truly industrial scale.

It was never going to be a battle which the poor beleaguered consumer was likely to win easily, it was rather more one in which the key player(s) were going to continue to lie and cheat and deceive and basically fight to the death. But at this particular point in time, I'm inclined to think that the current thread title is reasonably appropriate in some small measure, because perhaps the end of 'industrial scale scalping' - as enacted by Ticketmaster (principally) - is actually now genuinely coming into view !? Finally !

We shall see where this class action lawsuit leads ..... I for one can't wait to see the outcome. A shining example of 'America doing what America does best'. LITIGATION !!

So in the context of life on earth and of a battle of this nature and magnitude, what's 3 or 4 years ? Nothing !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-04 09:01 by paulywaul.

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers
I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Back in May 2014 when I started this thread, it was entitled: The definitive anti-scalper thread - let them choke on it !! Around p7 of the thread I changed the title to what it is now, namely: OT: TICKET SCALPING ... the end might be coming into sight.

The reason I changed the title was that sometime in 2015, more and more articles started cropping up in the press about the innumerable negatives of the secondary market, about government investigations (here in the U.K. anyway) into the working practices of those companies involved, about 'tweaks' to consumer laws, and so on. And since then, so for the last three years lets say, the 'exposures' have been coming in thick and fast. The clamour for 'doing something' about a runaway system, permanently rigged against the consumer, has become louder and louder. Hence we currently find ourselves in the last quarter of 2018, where the foremost primary ticket agency in the world (lets not forget) is now finally being held to account for its massive contributory role in promoting/facilitating ticket scalping on a truly industrial scale.

It was never going to be a battle which the poor beleaguered consumer was likely to win easily, it was rather more one in which the key player(s) were going to continue to lie and cheat and deceive and basically fight to the death. But at this particular point in time, I'm inclined to think that the current thread title is reasonably appropriate in some small measure, because perhaps the end of 'industrial scale scalping' - as enacted by Ticketmaster (principally) - is actually now genuinely coming into view !? Finally !

We shall see where this class action lawsuit leads ..... I for one can't wait to see the outcome. A shining example of 'America doing what America does best'. LITIGATION !!

So in the context of life on earth and of a battle of this nature and magnitude, what's 3 or 4 years ? Nothing !

Your completely correct of course.

...and I'm sure there will be an end to prostitution and all illegal drugs shortly!

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers
I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Back in May 2014 when I started this thread, it was entitled: The definitive anti-scalper thread - let them choke on it !! Around p7 of the thread I changed the title to what it is now, namely: OT: TICKET SCALPING ... the end might be coming into sight.

The reason I changed the title was that sometime in 2015, more and more articles started cropping up in the press about the innumerable negatives of the secondary market, about government investigations (here in the U.K. anyway) into the working practices of those companies involved, about 'tweaks' to consumer laws, and so on. And since then, so for the last three years lets say, the 'exposures' have been coming in thick and fast. The clamour for 'doing something' about a runaway system, permanently rigged against the consumer, has become louder and louder. Hence we currently find ourselves in the last quarter of 2018, where the foremost primary ticket agency in the world (lets not forget) is now finally being held to account for its massive contributory role in promoting/facilitating ticket scalping on a truly industrial scale.

It was never going to be a battle which the poor beleaguered consumer was likely to win easily, it was rather more one in which the key player(s) were going to continue to lie and cheat and deceive and basically fight to the death. But at this particular point in time, I'm inclined to think that the current thread title is reasonably appropriate in some small measure, because perhaps the end of 'industrial scale scalping' - as enacted by Ticketmaster (principally) - is actually now genuinely coming into view !? Finally !

We shall see where this class action lawsuit leads ..... I for one can't wait to see the outcome. A shining example of 'America doing what America does best'. LITIGATION !!

So in the context of life on earth and of a battle of this nature and magnitude, what's 3 or 4 years ? Nothing !

Your completely correct of course.

... and I'm sure there will be an end to prostitution and all illegal drugs shortly!

I'm not .....

Good wholesome healthy pursuits like er ... snorting copious quantities of Bolivian marching powder and hanging out with hookers ? Who the hell in their right mind would want to put an end to that kind of fun ?! Not me .....

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-10-14 22:33 by paulywaul.

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers
I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Back in May 2014 when I started this thread, it was entitled: The definitive anti-scalper thread - let them choke on it !! Around p7 of the thread I changed the title to what it is now, namely: OT: TICKET SCALPING ... the end might be coming into sight.

The reason I changed the title was that sometime in 2015, more and more articles started cropping up in the press about the innumerable negatives of the secondary market, about government investigations (here in the U.K. anyway) into the working practices of those companies involved, about 'tweaks' to consumer laws, and so on. And since then, so for the last three years lets say, the 'exposures' have been coming in thick and fast. The clamour for 'doing something' about a runaway system, permanently rigged against the consumer, has become louder and louder. Hence we currently find ourselves in the last quarter of 2018, where the foremost primary ticket agency in the world (lets not forget) is now finally being held to account for its massive contributory role in promoting/facilitating ticket scalping on a truly industrial scale.

It was never going to be a battle which the poor beleaguered consumer was likely to win easily, it was rather more one in which the key player(s) were going to continue to lie and cheat and deceive and basically fight to the death. But at this particular point in time, I'm inclined to think that the current thread title is reasonably appropriate in some small measure, because perhaps the end of 'industrial scale scalping' - as enacted by Ticketmaster (principally) - is actually now genuinely coming into view !? Finally !

We shall see where this class action lawsuit leads ..... I for one can't wait to see the outcome. A shining example of 'America doing what America does best'. LITIGATION !!

So in the context of life on earth and of a battle of this nature and magnitude, what's 3 or 4 years ? Nothing !

Your completely correct of course.

... and I'm sure there will be an end to prostitution and all illegal drugs shortly!

I'm not .....

Good wholesome healthy pursuits like er ... snorting copious quantities of Bolivian marching powder and hanging out with hookers ? Who the hell in their right mind would want to put an end to that kind of fun ?! Not me .....

Can I also hang out with you ?

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
treaclefingers
I would note that 4 years ago suggested the end was in sight to ticket scalping.

How strong are those prescription glasses?

Back in May 2014 when I started this thread, it was entitled: The definitive anti-scalper thread - let them choke on it !! Around p7 of the thread I changed the title to what it is now, namely: OT: TICKET SCALPING ... the end might be coming into sight.

The reason I changed the title was that sometime in 2015, more and more articles started cropping up in the press about the innumerable negatives of the secondary market, about government investigations (here in the U.K. anyway) into the working practices of those companies involved, about 'tweaks' to consumer laws, and so on. And since then, so for the last three years lets say, the 'exposures' have been coming in thick and fast. The clamour for 'doing something' about a runaway system, permanently rigged against the consumer, has become louder and louder. Hence we currently find ourselves in the last quarter of 2018, where the foremost primary ticket agency in the world (lets not forget) is now finally being held to account for its massive contributory role in promoting/facilitating ticket scalping on a truly industrial scale.

It was never going to be a battle which the poor beleaguered consumer was likely to win easily, it was rather more one in which the key player(s) were going to continue to lie and cheat and deceive and basically fight to the death. But at this particular point in time, I'm inclined to think that the current thread title is reasonably appropriate in some small measure, because perhaps the end of 'industrial scale scalping' - as enacted by Ticketmaster (principally) - is actually now genuinely coming into view !? Finally !

We shall see where this class action lawsuit leads ..... I for one can't wait to see the outcome. A shining example of 'America doing what America does best'. LITIGATION !!

So in the context of life on earth and of a battle of this nature and magnitude, what's 3 or 4 years ? Nothing !

Your completely correct of course.

... and I'm sure there will be an end to prostitution and all illegal drugs shortly!

I'm not .....

Good wholesome healthy pursuits like er ... snorting copious quantities of Bolivian marching powder and hanging out with hookers ? Who the hell in their right mind would want to put an end to that kind of fun ?! Not me .....

Can I also hang out with you ?

Sure ......

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Still no implementation of the "Verified Resale" tickets in Europe it seems ? I suppose there isn't much of an incentive since reselling above face value will not be allowed...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

forgive me for being late to the party, but are StubHub and Viagogo both just secondary market exploiting b!stards?

I am trying to get tickets for Arctic Monkeys in Mexico... TicketMaster claim to be sold out (of General tix) and StubHub and Viagogo seem to be crazy expensive.

Any thoughts?

(Twickets, who I had a great experience getting tickets for the AM UK shows, doesn't seem to be active in Mexico...)

[www.theguardian.com]

Viagogo releases data showing huge scale of ticket touting

Website publishes details of small firms and sole traders who are vastly inflating prices

The scale of ticket touts’ grip on access to live music and sports has been revealed, after the Viagogo website published details of its most prolific sellers, under the terms of a court order secured against the company by regulators.

Information released by Viagogo showed that touts have grabbed thousands of pounds worth of tickets to see artists such as Ariana Grande and Fleetwood Mac, which they then advertise to music fans at vast markups.

For a single gig by Fleetwood Mac at Wembley Stadium, touts listed at least 84 tickets with a combined price of £53,364 – equal to an average of £635 each – despite the fact that the resale of tickets for the show is prohibited, leaving buyers at risk of being turned away at the turnstile.

A show by Ariana Grande at the O2 in London, for which resale is also prohibited, had at least 52 listings by touts, at a combined price of £23,098 – or an average of £444 each.

Touts listed £14,978 of tickets for one night of Take That’s homecoming shows at Manchester Arena, with one seller, ATN Spencer, who gave their address as the Shard skyscraper in London, posting tickets with a total asking price of £12,520.

Traders using Viagogo were also offering tickets for a talk by Michelle Obama at the O2, with one on sale – again by ATN Spencer – at £2664. Gigs by Bastille, Elton John and the Spice Girls were also targeted by touts.

The latest data disclosed by Viagogo offers more insight into the power wielded by touts than ever before.

In practice, however, the number and value of tickets sold by traders on the site is likely to be far higher because the information released on Friday only covers a single day’s worth of ticket listings.

Viagogo released the information under the terms of a court order obtained by the Competition and Markets Authority last year, demanding the firm give more information to consumers.

The company said on Friday that it was compliant with the CMA’s demands, but music industry figures and critics of the website said they believe it is still withholding some information from fans about what they are buying – such as seat numbers and the touts’ full company details.

The data that has been released makes it possible to trace dozens of touts, described by the website as “traders”.

They include firms whose owners and directors can be viewed at Companies House, such as North Financial Group, whose owner Andrew Newman is the super-tout exposed in an Observer investigation in 2016.

Other Companies House-listed ticket firms include White Widget Ltd, Enjoy The Show Ltd, JSK Entertainment, Greatest Show Events and JCP Hospitality, most of which appear to be small operations or sole traders.

Thumpers, a company in West Sussex, was offering two tickets to see Fleetwood Mac at Wembley Stadium for £2,391, including VAT and fees.

When the Guardian rang the company, the person who answered the phone, who did not identify themselves, said: “I deal a lot in Goodwood and other stuff,” adding that he sometimes sells tickets at face value.

He added: “I’m not doing anything illegal. I’m not doing anything wrong.”

Ticketing expert Reg Walker, of the Iridium Consultancy, said: “Now that Viagogo is having to show whether a seller is a tout or not, it is becoming apparent at how they dominate ticket resale.

“The sheer numbers of tickets on Viagogo annotated as being sold by a ‘trader’ – that’s a tout in plain English – paints a grim picture of the massive numbers of tickets harvested in bulk, then offered at hiked up prices back to consumers.”

Despite the extra information published by Viagogo on Friday, campaigners said it was still not complying with the CMA’s demands.

Stuart Camp, who manages Ed Sheeran, said Viagogo, which has threatened to sue the musician’s promotion company over ticket restrictions, was “making a mockery of the law”.

Adam Webb, the campaign manager of anti-touting music industry group FanFair Alliance, said: “As of this morning, Viagogo was under strict instruction to overhaul its business practices. Based on our findings today, they have failed to do this.

“A few minor changes have been implemented, some of which may add even more confusion for consumers.”

Webb added: “FanFair Alliance urges all music fans to avoid Viagogo. Its practices are an affront to audiences, to artists and to the law. We feel the CMA must now step up and take urgent action.”

Labour MP Sharon Hodgson said: “For years Viagogo have acted in blatant disregard of consumer protection legislation. Surely they’ve now run out of road?

“It is time that the CMA take serious and urgent action, so that even more genuine fans don’t become victims of this company.”

Under the terms of the CMA’s order, Viagogo must appoint an independent reviewer to assess its compliance with the regulator’s demands and sift through complaints and refund requests by consumers.

Viagogo declined to comment on whether it had appointed a company to perform the review but the CMA said it would also be analysing the website’s compliance.

A spokesperson said: “We are now undertaking our own checks of Viagogo, and if we find breaches of the court order we will not hesitate to take action. This could include pursuing rapid action through the courts.”


O dear o f**king dear ... it couldn't have happened to a nicer company !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Dated August 2018, but still very relevant for today .....

[www.theguardian.com]

Viagogo to move UK staff to New York as European investigations mount

Ticketing website’s workforce relocation comes amid inquiries into its European operations

The controversial ticketing website Viagogo is preparing to move much of its UK workforce to New York, as it explores US expansion. The move comes at a time when the company faces multiple investigations into its affairs in Europe.

The Competition and Markets Authority warned the company in April that it was risking legal action for suspected breaches of consumer law, and National Trading Standards launched a separate investigation into “misleading” pricing just days later.

A source familiar with developments at Viagogo told the Guardian the company began notifying senior staff in London of plans to move their jobs to New York in May.

“Several senior developers have already relocated, but they’re mostly people that have been at Viagogo since nearly day one and so are probably invested in the company,” said the source.

“A few others are moving in the next couple of months, and others are leaving very soon.”

A recruitment page on Viagogo’s website features multiple job adverts seeking staff to join its New York team, as well as some for other parts of the world.

But the company is not recruiting for its office on London’s Fenchurch Street, where nearly 100 staff worked in customer services and website development last year, according to Companies House filings.

The progress of the CMA and Trading Standards investigations is not expected to be affected by Viagogo moving staff overseas. But it could make life more difficult for MPs seeking to persuade Viagogo executives to attend a select committee hearing scheduled for next month.

The company, whose headquarters are in Switzerland, refused to attend a hearing last year, in an almost unprecedented snub to a parliamentary committee.

A spokesperson declined to say whether the company would attend the new evidence session.

Sources in the ticket touting world told the Guardian that Viagogo has also started paying them for their sales through a US company rather than Viagogo AG, its Swiss head office.

Payments now arrive from Viagogo Entertainment Inc, registered in the US state of Delaware, which is known for its financial secrecy.

Delaware is also the location of Viagogo’s ultimate parent company, Pugnacious Endeavors, which is owned by founder Eric Baker.

The changes are thought to herald an expansion into US, where ticket resale has attracted less public criticism than in the UK and Europe.

Baker co-founded rival ticket resale firm StubHub in the US, after realising the huge potential for “secondary ticketing”, where people can resell tickets for gigs and sporting events online.

Most secondary ticketing sites claim they are simply providing a service for fans to recoup money for tickets they no longer want or can’t use.

But they have been criticised for providing a platform for professional touts who harvest tickets in bulk when they go on sale, in order to resell them at a vast mark-up.

The Competition and Markets Authority launched an investigation into suspected breaches of consumer law by secondary ticketing sites last year.

It later singled out Viagogo for failing to bow to its demand to comply with consumer laws about information provided to customers, warning the company it faced legal action if it did not comply with demands to make changes.

The Advertising Standards Authority referred Viagogo to National Trading Standards earlier this year over “misleading” pricing information.

Switzerland’s secretariat for economic affairs launched civil proceedings against Viagogo over suspected unfair business practices last year, while Fifa lodged a criminal complaint against the company over unauthorised sale of tickets for the 2018 World Cup in Russia.

Viagogo has elicited fierce criticism in the UK on multiple occasions, including a call from digital minister Margot James to boycott the company.

As well as investigations by the CMA and Trading Standards, the site has faced accusations of “callous profiteering” from charity events.

It has also been accused of withholding refunds from consumers, while a Guardian investigation revealed that touts were using the site to resell football tickets, which is illegal in the UK.

With scrutiny of secondary ticketing intensifying, Ticketmaster has said it would shut its own resale sites, GetMeIn and Seatwave, leaving StubHub and Viagogo as the only major players in the UK.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

People !

For those of you going to any of the States 2019 No Filter shows, please ! When you're on the hunt for tickets, don't be desperate, don't be stupid, don't be naïve, and DO avoid this c**t of a company at all costs.

It has surely been established by now who and what Viagogo are, a completely fraudulent operator in the secondary market that pursues just about every form of deceit and malpractice when it comes to 'ticket sales' ! As the articles in the preceding two posts clearly illustrate, they are effectively being chased out of Europe and now coming home to roost in the States - which is where some of us at any rate believe they rightfully belong !!

Whatever ? But please, do yourselves and your respective wallets and stress levels a huge huge favour, avoid this bunch of motherf**kers like the plague. If you're not already wise when it comes to sourcing tickets for 'in-demand' gigs/shows ... then get wise. And do it quickly ! Viagogo will scalp you to near death, so the word is - AVOID !!!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I think we got the idea Pauly - thanks for the update. Let's hope they will soon be extinct....Viadodo if you like!

Dated November 2018

[www.theguardian.com]

Here's the headline ... but DO read the whole article, especially the (lengthy) text of the actual court order. And then ... LAUGH your ass off !! F**k you Viagogo !!

Viagogo may have to pay back millions of pounds to fans

Resale site customers refused entry to concerts could get refunds after court order

Viagogo could be forced to pay back millions of pounds to fans who bought tickets through the site only to be turned away at the door, the Guardian has learned.

A landmark court order against Viagogo obtained by the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) this week includes a requirement that the company funds an independent review of outstanding refund claims submitted since January 2016.

Any customers found to be entitled to compensation will not need to do anything to make a claim and should be contacted by the company. The review could lead to refunds for fans of artists such as Ed Sheeran, whose decision to refuse entry to people who bought tickets through Viagogo led to hundreds of people being turned away this year.

In a separate measure that is expected to prove costly for Viagogo, the company will have to pay for a third party to monitor its overall compliance with the court order, which demanded a “complete overhaul” of the tickets site.

It will also have to pay the CMA’s legal costs, which are likely to be substantial given the regulator’s lengthy investigation.

A ticketing expert, Reg Walker, said: “If you look at the number of people claiming refunds when tickets haven’t worked, it could cost them millions. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t.

“It’ll be interesting to see where this money is going to come from. Will it come from Viagogo or will the company attempt to charge the people who sold the tickets that didn’t work? Touts could have a nasty surprise coming.”

The CMA’s legal victory forces Viagogo to address alleged breaches of laws designed to protect consumers. From 17 January, it will have to make changes such as identifying when sellers are professional touts and informing customers whether there are ticket restrictions that mean they may be refused entry. Viagogo will have to pay for independent monitoring to ensure it is complying with the commitments.

The order states: “If you, Viagogo AG, disobey this order, you may be held in contempt of court and liable to be fined or you have your assets seized and your directors may also be liable to imprisonment or to be fined or have their assets seized.”

The full court order, obtained by the Guardian on Thursday, includes a raft of other previously undisclosed demands that Viagogo will have to comply with. These include barring Viagogo from advising people seeking a refund to relist the tickets on its website to recoup their money, a practice that allowed the company to reap extra revenues by claiming a commission on the subsequent sale.

It will also have to remove messages that claim it does not itself buy or sell tickets in order to list them on its website. It has previously claimed it does not do this.

Professional touts who use the site will have to provide a postal address to buyers on the checkout page, making it easy for promoters and consumers to identify them.

Viagogo will also have to hand over details about its biggest sellers to the CMA, if the regulator demands the information.

Claire Turnham, who has already secured nearly £1m in refunds from the company through the Facebook campaign group Victim of Viagogo, welcomed the compensation requirement.

“This has to be the most encouraging step forward yet,” she said. “They may be being forced to comply but it’s still a good thing because we can’t continue as we are. If people think they have a claim, I’d still advise them to contact the company directly.”

The Guardian has approached Viagogo, which is owned and run by the US entrepreneur Eric Baker, for comment.


And as per f**ing usual, the c**t declines to comment !!

You're approaching the end of the road matey boy, best get your head around it !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
Manofwealthandtaste
I think we got the idea Pauly - thanks for the update. Let's hope they will soon be extinct....Viadodo if you like!

A pleasure Mr Chris. I won't unfortunately be joining you & BRQ & all the usual suspects for any of these States shows this year, got rather a lot on my plate at the moment (all good) - so it'll be wherever they go next after this run of shows. No signs of them stopping, so we'll just wait n' see what exotic further destinations they come up with in 2020 and beyond ........

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

[www.gov.uk]

Press release

CMA secures court order against viagogo

Ticket resale site viagogo must overhaul the way it does business to comply with a court order, secured after CMA enforcement action.

Published 27 November 2018

From: Competition and Markets Authority

This development results from legal proceedings launched by the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) in August over concerns that viagogo was breaking consumer protection law.

The court has agreed to make a legally binding order instructing viagogo to comply with the law by:

telling purchasers of tickets if there is a risk that they will be turned away at the door

informing customers which seat in the venue they will get

providing information about who is selling the ticket, so people can benefit from enhanced legal rights when buying from a business

not giving misleading information about the availability and popularity of tickets - which had the potential to lead to customers being rushed into making a buying decision or making the wrong choice

making it easy for people to get their money back under viagogo’s guarantee when things go wrong

preventing the sale of tickets a seller does not own and may not be able to supply

It will also ensure that viagogo does not repeat historic failures to make its customers aware of the face value of tickets on sale through its site.

Andrea Coscelli, CMA Chief Executive Officer, said:

“This court order is a victory for anyone who decides to buy a ticket through viagogo. We have been clear throughout our investigation that people who use these resale websites must know key facts before parting with their hard-earned money, including what seat they will get and whether there is a risk they might not actually get into the event at all.

“viagogo has agreed to a comprehensive overhaul of its site to ensure it respects the law, just like the other resale sites who have already signed commitments to improve the information they offer and give people a fair deal.”

Today’s court order, which is a significant outcome for consumers, must be complied with by mid-January – the same deadline set for other resale sites that have already agreed to change their practices. It has been secured after viagogo agreed to address all of the CMA’s concerns, without the need for a trial. The order is legally binding and enforceable by the court.

The order the court has agreed to make today will now ensure consumers’ rights are protected quickly, without the need for further legal action.

The CMA continues to work closely with partner agencies and enforcers to drive up standards in the sector.

Notes to editors

1 Further information on the CMA’s work so far in this sector is available on GOV.UK.

2 If viagogo fail to comply with the court order, the company could face a fine and/or certain individuals involved could face imprisonment. The courts, rather than the CMA, have the legal powers to issue a fine or send people to prison.

3 The key pieces of consumer protection legislation relevant to the CMA’s investigation are the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA), the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (CCRs), the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPRs) and the Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 (ECRs).

4 As an enforcer under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002, the CMA cannot levy administrative fines but it can enforce the above legislation through the courts, and where appropriate, obtain additional measures to improve consumer choice, drive better compliance with the law, or obtain redress for consumers.

5 Media enquiries to the CMA should be directed to press@cma.gov.uk or 020 3738 6460.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Bye Viagogo ... byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
peoplewitheyes
forgive me for being late to the party, but are StubHub and Viagogo both just secondary market exploiting b!stards?

I am trying to get tickets for Arctic Monkeys in Mexico... TicketMaster claim to be sold out (of General tix) and StubHub and Viagogo seem to be crazy expensive.

Any thoughts?

(Twickets, who I had a great experience getting tickets for the AM UK shows, doesn't seem to be active in Mexico...)

Just go to Mexico and try to scalp on the streets.

guaranteed to be cheaper.

If you get tix, great...have fun.

If you don't, enjoy a fun trip to Mexico....Mexico and Mexicans are awesome.

win-win.

....just don't drink the water. Seriously.

[www.theguardian.com]

Viagogo threatened with more legal action over changing practices

Controversial ticket resale site has not complied with court order, says regulator

Viagogo is risking fines, or even the imprisonment of its directors, after the competition watchdog revealed “serious concerns” over the ticket website’s compliance with a court order designed to protect consumers.

The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) had given Viagogo until mid-January to overhaul the website’s much-criticised business practices.

While the website did make some changes, such as publishing information about touts who use it to sell tickets at vast mark-ups, the CMA said it was insufficient.

“Having conducted urgent checks, the CMA has serious concerns that Viagogo have not complied with important aspects of the court order we secured against them,” it said in a statement.

“We have told Viagogo we expect them to make the necessary changes without delay. If they do not, we will go back to court to force them to do so. Severe penalties are available if they are found to be in contempt of court.”

A court could impose fines, or even seek the imprisonment of directors, if Viagogo is found to be flouting the court order.

A statement issued by Viagogo simply said: “We are compliant,” indicating a fresh courtroom battle may be in the offing.

The CMA is understood to be concerned Viagogo is persisting with several activities it was ordered to cease, such as advertising tickets without seat numbers.

This makes it hard for consumers to know exactly what they are buying and also impedes event organisers who do not permit resale and want to cancel any tickets they discover listed on Viagogo.

The regulator was also ordered to make it clear when resale was banned, so consumers know that they might be turned away from a venue if they buy through Viagogo. The CMA is thought to believe the website isn’t making this disclosure prominently enough.

Viagogo will also face questions over its messages to consumers about how many tickets are left and how fast they are selling, amid concern about “pressure selling” techniques designed to hurry consumers into making a purchase.

Under the terms of the court order, an independent third-party reviewer, paid for by Viagogo, will review its compliance and investigate thousands of pounds worth of refund claims going back years.

Viagogo did not respond to questions about whether it had yet appointed an independent reviewer.

In November the Guardian reported that dozens of tickets to see Michelle Obama speak at London’s Royal Festival Hall the following month had been snapped up by touts and were on sale for between £5,000 and more than £70,000 on Viagogo. The Southbank Centre had set seat prices of £30-£125 for the talk by the former first lady.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

[www.moneysavingexpert.com]

'Don't buy tickets from Viagogo' – a warning from Martin

MoneySavingExpert founder Martin Lewis has urged concert-goers not to buy tickets from the secondary ticketing website Viagogo after it was threatened with court action by the competition watchdog.

Three major secondary ticketing sites - StubHub, Get Me In and Seatwave - have formally committed to ensuring better information will be given about tickets being resold through their sites, after the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) identified problems last year.

However, Viagogo has not currently said it will make changes the CMA considers necessary, and the CMA has notified it that it will face court action unless it commits to addressing concerns.

Martin: 'Unless it radically changes I would never buy from Viagogo'

Martin Lewis, founder of MoneySavingExpert.com, said: “It’s quite staggering that Viagogo has not agreed to the CMA’s terms to make it clear that if you buy tickets through it there might be a risk you will be turned away, or not know what seats you will get or who is selling the tickets.

“These are seemingly remedial and necessary measures for a secondary ticketing site. It is of great concern that this company - which is the one I seem to receive the most complaints about - has not yet agreed to make even these basic changes, even though the CMA has investigated it and has asked it to.

“I personally know that unless it radically changes I would never buy tickets from Viagogo, and would caution anybody now if they are looking at secondary ticketing sales not to use Viagogo.

“If the CMA pressure isn’t enough, customers turning away in droves may be the only way to get it to improve.”

What have the sites agreed to do?

StubHub, Get Me In and Seatwave have agreed to make clear:

whether there is a risk a customer might be turned away at the door

which seat in the venue the customer will get

who is selling the ticket, so customers can benefit from enhanced legal rights when buying from a business

What problems did the CMA find with secondary sellers?

The CMA’s enforcement action, launched in November last year, followed a thorough investigation which identified concerns that consumers who used StubHub, Get Me In, Seatwave and Viagogo were not being told:

about restrictions on using a resold ticket that had the potential to lead to a buyer being denied access to an event

where exactly in a venue they would be seated

the identity of the sellers they are buying from – for example whether the seller was a business and/or connected to an event organiser

As part of this investigation, the CMA also raised a number of other concerns with Viagogo, including:

a failure to fully comply with a commitment given to the CMA in 2015 to make its customers aware of the face value of tickets

making statements about the availability and popularity of tickets on its website which had the potential to mislead consumers or rush them into making a buying decision

problems encountered by its customers in getting their money back under the guarantee

businesses advertising tickets for sale on the website that they do not yet own and therefore may not be able to supply

What does the CMA say?

Michael Grenfell, the CMA’s executive director for enforcement, said: “Thousands of people use secondary ticketing websites to buy tickets for concerts, theatre and other events. So it’s crucial they are told what they are buying, from whom they are buying it, and whether their ticket might not actually get them into the event.

“We welcome the changes already made and new commitments we’ve been given by StubHub, Seatwave and Get Me In to improve the information on offer, so that people can better judge whether they’re getting a good deal.

“But all secondary ticketing websites must play by the rules and treat their customers fairly if anything goes wrong. We take failure to comply with consumer protection law very seriously.

“So far Viagogo has failed to address our concerns, and we are determined to ensure they comply with the law. We are prepared to use the full range of our powers to protect customers – including action through the courts.”

Viagogo did not respond to requests for comment.

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I've been watching the reports in the UK press about the 'disclosure' problems that Viagogo have got into. If I knew how to spell it I'd say Schaudenfrau.

But what I have not seen, perhaps I've missed, is how the people illegally and at high profit margins, have managed to get hold of these tickets in the first place.

If you use IORR, then you've probably tried to get a ticket online and legally from (say) Ticketmaster, and have tried at the very nan-second that they are released. Only to be met with a 'sold out'.

So how do the Viagogo associated scumbags get there first?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

People wanting to charge $400 or whatever a ticket for Jazz Fest are pathetic.

Quote
CaptainCorella
I've been watching the reports in the UK press about the 'disclosure' problems that Viagogo have got into. If I knew how to spell it I'd say Schaudenfrau.

But what I have not seen, perhaps I've missed, is how the people illegally and at high profit margins, have managed to get hold of these tickets in the first place.

If you use IORR, then you've probably tried to get a ticket online and legally from (say) Ticketmaster, and have tried at the very nan-second that they are released. Only to be met with a 'sold out'.

So how do the Viagogo associated scumbags get there first?

Well one of the things that Viagogo is in the s**t for is advertising tickets for sale that they do not actually HAVE. They sell 'speculatively' so to say. That is why they are so reluctant to quote seat numbers for example. If they succeed in selling a ticket to YOU for some absurd mark-up, then and only then do they scrabble around sourcing a ticket that (hopefully) matches the spec of what they've just sold you !!

If THAT isn't malpractice, I don't know what IS !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
CaptainCorella
I've been watching the reports in the UK press about the 'disclosure' problems that Viagogo have got into. If I knew how to spell it I'd say Schaudenfrau.

But what I have not seen, perhaps I've missed, is how the people illegally and at high profit margins, have managed to get hold of these tickets in the first place.

If you use IORR, then you've probably tried to get a ticket online and legally from (say) Ticketmaster, and have tried at the very nan-second that they are released. Only to be met with a 'sold out'.

So how do the Viagogo associated scumbags get there first?

Well one of the things that Viagogo is in the s**t for is advertising tickets for sale that they do not actually HAVE. They sell 'speculatively' so to say. That is why they are so reluctant to quote seat numbers for example. If they succeed in selling a ticket to YOU for some absurd mark-up, then and only then do they scrabble around sourcing a ticket that (hopefully) matches the spec of what they've just sold you !!

If THAT isn't malpractice, I don't know what IS !!

Hmmm... Isn't that what a Stockbroker would call short selling! If it's OK on the Stock Market, why not Viagogo. Of course IMHO both are amoral practises.

But, offering to sell you a ticket that they do not (yet) have is not quite the same as the problem of ordinary people finding that an event is sold out within moments of tickets becoming available. And then seeing the tickets on offer on Viagogo.

thanks stickyfingers101, I live in Mexico most of the time, and you're right, it's a fabulous country!

As for turning up at the gig and looking for a ticket there... I tried that at the Stones show at the Foro Sol in 2006(ish), and was greeted by the same comment from everyone I asked:

'olvidalo'

'Forget it' - no tickets available for any price. We spent the night partying with hundreds of others, in the parking lot within listening distance!

Quote
CaptainCorella

Quote
paulywaul

Quote
CaptainCorella
I've been watching the reports in the UK press about the 'disclosure' problems that Viagogo have got into. If I knew how to spell it I'd say Schaudenfrau.

But what I have not seen, perhaps I've missed, is how the people illegally and at high profit margins, have managed to get hold of these tickets in the first place.

If you use IORR, then you've probably tried to get a ticket online and legally from (say) Ticketmaster, and have tried at the very nan-second that they are released. Only to be met with a 'sold out'.

So how do the Viagogo associated scumbags get there first?

Well one of the things that Viagogo is in the s**t for is advertising tickets for sale that they do not actually HAVE. They sell 'speculatively' so to say. That is why they are so reluctant to quote seat numbers for example. If they succeed in selling a ticket to YOU for some absurd mark-up, then and only then do they scrabble around sourcing a ticket that (hopefully) matches the spec of what they've just sold you !!

If THAT isn't malpractice, I don't know what IS !!

Hmmm... Isn't that what a Stockbroker would call short selling! If it's OK on the Stock Market, why not Viagogo. Of course IMHO both are amoral practises.

But, offering to sell you a ticket that they do not (yet) have is not quite the same as the problem of ordinary people finding that an event is sold out within moments of tickets becoming available. And then seeing the tickets on offer on Viagogo.

The simple explanation is that a primary agency (like Ticketmaster) works 'in cahoots' with a preferred re-seller, allocating them a certain quota of tickets right from the outset. THAT is why practically THE moment a 'public sale' of tickets for any particular event commences, it shows up to you and I as 'sold out' - because once you take out of the 'offering' all the various 'allocations' from the primary agency to the 'bulk buyers' - there's as good as f**k all left !! Those tickets in reality never ever hit the narket for you and I at face value, they're siphoned off 'immediately' to various bulk buyers, marked up in price, and listed. It all takes place within more often than not even BEFORE the official designated start tine of the public sale !! Talk about 'adding insult to injury' !!

If you scroll back a few pages through this thread, you'll find a significant flurry of posts relating to this activity, posted by SOMETORONTOGIRL. Specifically, these posts chart the story of a couple of Canadian investigative journalists that blew this story wide open by exposing this 'arrangement' that Ticketmaster had with their preferred bulk buyers, and the dedicated software that was used by both these parties to make quick and easy work of the bulk buyers' ticket 'listings' !!
As a result of this 'exposé', Ticketmaster themselves are now the subject of a massive litigation action/bulk lawsuit ... !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-27 21:19 by paulywaul.

Quote
paulywaul

The simple explanation is that a primary agency (like Ticketmaster) works 'in cahoots' with a preferred re-seller, allocating them a certain quota of tickets right from the outset. THAT is why practically THE moment a 'public sale' of tickets for any particular event commences, it shows up to you and I as 'sold out' - because once you take out of the 'offering' all the various 'allocations' from the primary agency to the 'bulk buyers' - there's as good as f**k all left !! Those tickets in reality never ever hit the narket for you and I at face value, they're siphoned off 'immediately' to various bulk buyers, marked up in price, and listed. It all takes place within more often than not even BEFORE the official designated start tine of the public sale !! Talk about 'adding insult to injury' !!

If you scroll back a few pages through this thread, you'll find a significant flurry of posts relating to this activity, posted by SOMETORONTOGIRL. Specifically, these posts chart the story of a couple of Canadian investigative journalists that blew this story wide open by exposing this 'arrangement' that Ticketmaster had with their preferred bulk buyers, and the dedicated software that was used by both these parties to make quick and easy work of the bulk buyers' ticket 'listings' !!
As a result of this 'exposé', Ticketmaster themselves are now the subject of a massive litigation action/bilk lawsuit ... !!

Thanks. I obviously missed sometorontogirl's postings. Sorry. All credit to the journalists who exposed that angle to the Viagogo scumbag operation.

Worth noting that a few years ago I got really angry about all of this and tried to do something about it (at least making sure that our favourite band knew what it was like at the coal face buying tikets). I eventually got a friendly, personal, and very suportive email from Joyce Smyth who clearly said that the bands were as much against it as the fans and that that the sooner it was all shut down the better.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Edit: Duplicate post snafu removed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-28 02:35 by CaptainCorella.