And here is more of Charlie on Baker, this was one is from 1987:


And it was your intention to become a Jazz player yourself?

I always imagined so. In England, really, the biggest hero was a man called Phil Seaman. There's a tradition of players that look and play like him - John Stevens is one. And the sad thing is that Seaman never got to America. But an amazing player, totally unique. First guy I ever saw play timp-style - he invented it. You know, instead of playing like that [demonstrates], which is chop-style, he played with his fingers, like you actually play a timpani drum. When you roll with timps you fan, and he'd be playing like that.

Ginger Baker's another one that I wanted to play like. One of the first good bands I got in was Alexis Korner's band - Jack [Bruce] was in that band, he played upright bass and cello. Ginger used to play in a jazz octet, the best band in London at the time. Ginger had a kit that he actually made, the first plastic kit I'd ever seen. Those were the days when you had calf heads, but his were like real African drums-which are actually animal skins, shaved off - so they were about a quarter-of-an-inch thick. He's the only guy I've ever seen get any sound out of his tom-toms. I borrowed them off him one night he was on the first act, the Stones were the next band on, and then Ginger with Alexis - and couldn't get anywhere. Broke about four sticks. I don't break drum sticks normally, but Ginger's chops are so strong. They still are. I tried to get him to play in this band actually, but I couldn't get a hold of him.

- Doxa

Is he in the position to criticise anyone anymore?

We used to discuss this theme earlier here: [www.iorr.org]

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-17 15:29 by Doxa.

His afterword in NOT FADE AWAY is all fake then?

The guys seem to have fun together (from the old thread):



- Doxa

A very good drummer, but a person of questionable character.

One thing he has in common with Charlie is horses...different ones as Baker was into Polo...but I guess it would be a conversation point to bond over.

All this talk of who's the "best musician" perhaps needs the term "musician" defining a little.

Being a superior technical exponent of any given instrument does not make somebody a better musician .

A better musician is somebody who's musical vision conceives and delivers a more satisfying "buzz" for the listener.
Technical ability on one's instrument is but one component of a musical talent.

<delivers a more satisfying "buzz" for the listener>

Hear, hear!

Now that I know he does not like the Stones and actually goes around bashing them, I'll be sure to DISS THE BASTARD whenever I can! The arrogant little twit!

FWIW I think Eric and Jack often found him to be "an arrogant little twit" too.

Might be a a perfectly nice guy who just lacks a few diplomacy skills ;^)

It's all a matter of personal taste. Do you want to hear Keith Richards in say 1999, or listen to a player like Steve Vai. Personally I'll take Keith. Of course I'm finally going to hear Jeff Beck live this Sunday night. I can't wait.

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24FPS
It's all a matter of personal taste. Do you want to hear Keith Richards in say 1999, or listen to a player like Steve Vai.

Quite so . But if you speak to Stevie Vai or Jo Satriani, they'll both tell you what a fantastic musician Keith Richards is .

What gets up noses is people rubbishing stuff purely on the basis of not themselves liking it or it not being "their thing"

"I don't like it... so it must be crap "

can't do with Ginger Baker, never liked his drumming, never liked him as a musical commentator and by all accounts isn't a particularly nice person. Over the years he has given many interviews where he has criticised many of his contemporaries and yet doesn't take kindly to any one criticising him and boy he has turned out some right shite in his time. Many of my friends who are drummers assure me he is a technically accomplished drummer, bit for me he isn't in the same league as Charlie or Bonham.

Please. Let's go too far on trashing Ginger Baker. His tympani style drumming on Sunshine of Your Love and White Room were groundbreaking and crowd pleasing. I find it amusing what a curmudgeon he's become. He seems to create his own hell on earth, not content with contentment before he has to stir up some drama.

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TooTough
His afterword in NOT FADE AWAY is all fake then?

Not exactly,but I think it's mostly Giuliano taking liberties with what Ginger actually said. Get "The Rolling Stones Story" cassette and hear Ginger telling the stories himself.

I don't have a problem with people not liking his drumming because it's all a matter of taste. I think he is an unbelievable drummer and a ground breaker but that still doesn't mean he is not one of the biggest pricks alive. He just sounds like one of these guys who was a little weird but didn't know how to get out of being like that and made being blunt and a prick his thing. He's probably jealous that Mick got so many girls and made as much money as he has. Usually with people who seem so angry, there is something else underneath it all. Keith's silence is deafening. What happened to the I'll slit the throat of anyone who slags Mick off crap?

ROCKMAN

Ginger Baker has probably figured out that this new 'World's Biggest A-Hole' is going to get him more attention than being a once fantastic drummer. He seems to be playing it to the hilt now. Maybe he'll get a movie role out of it.

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varv

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TooTough
His afterword in NOT FADE AWAY is all fake then?

Not exactly,but I think it's mostly Giuliano taking liberties with what Ginger actually said. Get "The Rolling Stones Story" cassette and hear Ginger telling the stories himself.

Yes, that's it. Giuliano just put a literary slant on Ginger's general overview and omitted the acidic put-downs that are so clearly evident in Beware Mr Baker and every single newspaper interview he's done since. He needed money at the time, so he agreed. Just like with the recent documentary film--he comes right out and says that the only reason he did it was because they gave him money.

I think the deeper source for his character are laid out quite clearly in the film... The loss of his dad. He sounds most emotional when he talks about his dad, the running after the train after they said goodbye part etc.

Also consider that thing we recently talked about of junkies getting all their emotional baggage coming out once they get clean.

The film essentially shows us that Ginger is always moving, always on the run from something... The pain he felt as a boy who lost his dad.

I think the African rhythms and music appealed to him so much because it was something so totally alien to his own world. A wonderland of escapism through trance sounds.

Fantastic musician, @#$%& up person. He's hardly alone in that category though, main difference is that he doesn't hide his horrible side.

Inside that grumpy mean old bastard is a little boy who just wants to cuddle his dad.

Thank you, my amateur psycho analysis is now over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-18 01:19 by His Majesty.

Yes, all of the above true. Add to that the more recent factor of being in constant pain because of degenerative osteoarthritis and also being forced to work and tour again after having lost his farm and his beloved horses through the unscrupulous actions of a scheming local banking official.

If you notice from his earlier interviews--that is, the 70s and even 80s--until very recently he used to smile frequently and be more soft spoken, not at all spiteful and surly in his interviews. Now when he laughs it's a rueful, nicotine-addled rasp full of lung tissue.

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stonehearted
Yes, all of the above true. Add to that the more recent factor of being in constant pain because of degenerative osteoarthritis and also being forced to work and tour again after having lost his farm and his beloved horses through the unscrupulous actions of a scheming local banking official.

If you notice from his earlier interviews--that is, the 70s and even 80s--until very recently he used to smile frequently and be more soft spoken, not at all spiteful and surly in his interviews. Now when he laughs it's a rueful, nicotine-addled rasp full of lung tissue.

Have you seen Beware of Mr. Baker? It was so sad when he was asked to take his glasses off...

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Bastion
Have you seen Beware of Mr. Baker? It was so sad when he was asked to take his glasses off...

Yes. See the clip below, where the filmmaker explains the context of that moment (after the 14-minute mark). There was apparently a huge amount of things going on at once around him.

Well thanks for that tri. Usually when I do post something I'm have in the bag and the only people to reply are a few unrealistic diehard uberfans just writing in to give me shit, lol.

Having hung out with Ginger Baker and help set his kit up at Ealing - I have never seen him as a jazz drummer. He was a good blues rock drummer and his forte was long drum solos. Maybe people think long solos = jazz.

Jazz drummers around at the time were Phil Seaman, Buzz Green and Mike Hugg - the latter playing jazz with Manfred Mann trio.

I always measure Werther rock drummers are any good as jazz drummers by asking - how many top jazz musicians are queuing up to play with this guy. The answer is usually none.

I think Baker got mistaken for a jazz drummer because he looked a bit like Phil Seaman and also seemed just as stoned. )

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JamesPhelge00
Having hung out with Ginger Baker and help set his kit up at Ealing - I have never seen him as a jazz drummer. He was a good blues rock drummer and his forte was long drum solos. Maybe people think long solos = jazz.

Jazz drummers around at the time were Phil Seaman, Buzz Green and Mike Hugg - the latter playing jazz with Manfred Mann trio.

I always measure Werther rock drummers are any good as jazz drummers by asking - how many top jazz musicians are queuing up to play with this guy. The answer is usually none.

I think Baker got mistaken for a jazz drummer because he looked a bit like Phil Seaman and also seemed just as stoned. )

i already said before in this thread baker was and is a jazz drummer. prior to joining cream his style was largely jazz and in the 90's he released several jazz albums

His drumming on some of the Graham Bond Organization stuff is ace!

[www.rollingstone.com]

[www.iorr.org]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

I just ............... Ginger Baker? who gives a @#$%& what he thinks?..........a friend of mine always says, if you haven't got looks then at least have charm .....what a bad tempered, unpleasant individual.......With a disposition like his I'm surprised anyone wants to go within ten miles of him...................


and.......there's no fool like an old fool.........

Interviewer......"Are there any health issues right now that you're concerned about? ??"
Baker...."Yes. I've got degenerative osteoarthritis, which is extremely painful and I'm on a regiment with a health service pain management control. Apart from that I've got COPD from smoking".

Are you still smoking? ??
Yeah. (laughs)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-20 16:33 by EddieByword.