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Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: October 12, 2013 02:47

The rest, not so much. From an interview with Patrick Doyle:

The Stones just wrapped up a tour. Have you heard them lately or what do you think of how they're playing nowadays?
(laughs) You're joking right?

No.
I mean Charlie is a great friend of mine. I think the world of Charlie. When I was living in the States, Charlie came to see me at my house and he said, "I'd give you some tickets but I know you would never go!" I won't go within 10 miles of a Rolling Stones gig.

Why is that?
They're not good musicians, that's why. The best musician in the Stones is Charlie by a country mile.

I agree he is. But the way they play together, people argue, is greater than the parts.
People can argue what they like.

Do you agree they're great songwriters, though?
No, not really.

Is it crazy that they're still doing it?
They are earning lots of money.

[www.rollingstone.com]

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: October 12, 2013 03:07

Having seen the documentary Beware of Mr Baker, he has some further unflattering things to say, for instance, about Mick Jagger.





But it's not surprising that he would like Charlie, because Ginger likes musicians with a jazz background. He hates rock music and hasn't had a good thing to say about rock musicians--though, curiously, he did ask for an audition to replace Keith Moon in The Who, but probably only because he was flat broke at the time.

Ginger Baker, not a fan of John Bonham or Keith Moon, but a Charlie Watts fan--also laughs at the mention of Ringo Starr. But if you're a jazzer at heart, then you're okay with Ginger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-12 03:17 by stonehearted.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: October 12, 2013 03:48

Shit! Baker hates the Rolling Stones like nobody else. It is the first time I read about a rock musician that despite them that much. Well he likes Charlie at least but the rest of them he doesn't. Is Ginger a jazz-snob? Yes he is a great player but to thrash the Rolling stones like he does is way over the top.

Rock and roll,
Mops

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: vudicus ()
Date: October 12, 2013 03:48

x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-09 21:29 by vudicus.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: October 12, 2013 04:53

He is commenting now because he has an audience because of this movie. My god he's a good drummer but he can't operate in the wider world apparently...
He seems to want to make enemies..

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: straycatuk ()
Date: October 12, 2013 06:27

He's nothing like a jazz drummer. Just boring. Never been been able to listen to Cream's Toad all the way through. He doesn't swing at all. IMHO .

Sc uk

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 06:46

Quote
straycatuk
He's nothing like a jazz drummer. Just boring. Never been been able to listen to Cream's Toad all the way through. He doesn't swing at all. IMHO .

Sc uk

go listen to his pre cream stuff then. at some point around the time of cream he became hugely influenced by tribal drumming of africa. he has some great jazz albums in the 90's too

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 12, 2013 06:47

I found Ginger interesting as a rock drummer, but not the end all-be all. Cream might have been better overall as a unit than The Jimi Hendrix Experience, I can see that. He reminds me of my dad who couldn't acknowledge greatness in rock musicians, even though it's ridiculously evident. I can't even think of a jazz equivalent of the explosiveness of Keith Moon. Ginger Baker is lucky that Max Roach would even give him the time of day.

A lot of jazz guys seem to treasure musical facility over emotional accomplishment. You can noodle up and down the scales all f-ing day but it's just musical masturbation if nobody feels anything. In the Golden Years of the Rolling Stones, they did lock in and become something greater than its parts.

Ginger Baker is fascinating without being likeable. He seems like a miserable fart without the chops to confirm his prejudices.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 06:59

Quote
24FPS
I found Ginger interesting as a rock drummer, but not the end all-be all. Cream might have been better overall as a unit than The Jimi Hendrix Experience, I can see that. He reminds me of my dad who couldn't acknowledge greatness in rock musicians, even though it's ridiculously evident. I can't even think of a jazz equivalent of the explosiveness of Keith Moon. Ginger Baker is lucky that Max Roach would even give him the time of day.

A lot of jazz guys seem to treasure musical facility over emotional accomplishment. You can noodle up and down the scales all f-ing day but it's just musical masturbation if nobody feels anything. In the Golden Years of the Rolling Stones, they did lock in and become something greater than its parts.

Ginger Baker is fascinating without being likeable. He seems like a miserable fart without the chops to confirm his prejudices.


you can think of a jazz drummer like keith moon? maybe buddy rich cool smiley

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 12, 2013 07:06

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
24FPS
I found Ginger interesting as a rock drummer, but not the end all-be all. Cream might have been better overall as a unit than The Jimi Hendrix Experience, I can see that. He reminds me of my dad who couldn't acknowledge greatness in rock musicians, even though it's ridiculously evident. I can't even think of a jazz equivalent of the explosiveness of Keith Moon. Ginger Baker is lucky that Max Roach would even give him the time of day.

A lot of jazz guys seem to treasure musical facility over emotional accomplishment. You can noodle up and down the scales all f-ing day but it's just musical masturbation if nobody feels anything. In the Golden Years of the Rolling Stones, they did lock in and become something greater than its parts.

Ginger Baker is fascinating without being likeable. He seems like a miserable fart without the chops to confirm his prejudices.


you can think of a jazz drummer like keith moon? maybe buddy rich cool smiley

Not to my ears. Keith was a one of a kind stick of dynamite. Buddy could do anything, and to me is the best of all time, but he was in control. Maybe Keith was too, when he wasn't too high, but there was a sense that things could fly off in any direction. There's not a jazz equivalent to me. The power, the dynamics. There's not another rock equivalent either. Keith Moon was a force of nature who flamed until he burned out, empty.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 07:09

keiths drumming is very clearly influenced by surf music

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 12, 2013 07:13

Quote
keefriffhard4life
keiths drumming is very clearly influenced by surf music

Please expand. I'm thinking of Young Man's Blues and I'm not hearing Jan and Dean.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 07:39

Quote
24FPS
Quote
keefriffhard4life
keiths drumming is very clearly influenced by surf music

Please expand. I'm thinking of Young Man's Blues and I'm not hearing Jan and Dean.


well young mans blues is a cover so its not going to have his full style. a lot of moons fills are very surf rock style like the song "wipeout". moon once said he would have left the who in a heartbeat to join the beach boys.

btw i think moon once said he patterned his wild style after gene krupa

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: The Wick ()
Date: October 12, 2013 09:06

He just sounds like one of the world's all time pricks. What I don't understand is how Mick in that world music article referred to this prick as Ginger was the first and Ginger this and Ginger that. He should let the prick whither away and fall apart in his jealous sociopathic rage.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 12, 2013 09:15

....cause Mick is a gentleman ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 12, 2013 09:24

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
24FPS
Quote
keefriffhard4life
keiths drumming is very clearly influenced by surf music

Please expand. I'm thinking of Young Man's Blues and I'm not hearing Jan and Dean.


well young mans blues is a cover so its not going to have his full style. a lot of moons fills are very surf rock style like the song "wipeout". moon once said he would have left the who in a heartbeat to join the beach boys.

btw i think moon once said he patterned his wild style after gene krupa

Krupa did have a more theatrical style, so I can see a little of that. But still, there's nothing quite like Moon.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: October 12, 2013 09:29

Quote
The Wick
He just sounds like one of the world's all time pricks. What I don't understand is how Mick in that world music article referred to this prick as Ginger was the first and Ginger this and Ginger that. He should let the prick whither away and fall apart in his jealous sociopathic rage.

Ginger has ALWAYS been like that. People know that and just take him for what he is. Which is, among other things admittedly, a very accomplished drummer.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: capsula ()
Date: October 12, 2013 09:35

Saw Baker live and it was amazing, a really great drummer, one of the best

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: Title5Take1 ()
Date: October 12, 2013 10:16

A friend played me a jazz concert album with two brilliant, brilliant jazz guitarists (forget who), who played all these complicated songs with crazy chords and lightening solos. And then to get irreverent they played a simple three-chord R&B tune. And it was so bland, it was really terrible and dorky sounding. Despite all their skill, they could never play a simple "A" chord the WAY Keith can play an "A" chord to save their lives. That's why I love the Rolling Stones.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 10:39

Quote
Title5Take1
A friend played me a jazz concert album with two brilliant, brilliant jazz guitarists (forget who), who played all these complicated songs with crazy chords and lightening solos. And then to get irreverent they played a simple three-chord R&B tune. And it was so bland, it was really terrible and dorky sounding. Despite all their skill, they could never play a simple "A" chord the WAY Keith can play an "A" chord to save their lives. That's why I love the Rolling Stones.

were they able to play "scarf me up" though?

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 11:12

He has said on a number of occassions that kieth moon and bonham couldn't swing a sack of Sh*t! he isn't a happy person.

Fair enough.... although one point here about him referring to the stones now a days I bought my dad the DVD of cream and at the royal albert hall the newer version from a few years back(my dad thought the orginal from 68 was the best concert he has ever seen) I have never seen such a toned down uninspiring clean performance by a band and a band that has lost so much of what made them great in the sixties - totally unexciting and boring.

At least with the stones you get some dirty rough edges to maintain some excitement. I would rather listen to philidephia 2 audience bootleg than any of the cream revival gigs

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: October 12, 2013 12:27

He is a surly old man! At least he made it to old.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: erad ()
Date: October 12, 2013 14:06

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Quote
Title5Take1
A friend played me a jazz concert album with two brilliant, brilliant jazz guitarists (forget who), who played all these complicated songs with crazy chords and lightening solos. And then to get irreverent they played a simple three-chord R&B tune. And it was so bland, it was really terrible and dorky sounding. Despite all their skill, they could never play a simple "A" chord the WAY Keith can play an "A" chord to save their lives. That's why I love the Rolling Stones.

were they able to play "scarf me up" though?
A lot of that had to do with the fact that Clapton played with hardly any distorion, whereas back in the late 60s the distortion was cranked right up.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: October 12, 2013 15:15

I wonder if Baker is still fighting the londonian "Jazz-trad" vs "R&B/R&R" fight of the early 60's? Time to move on, Ginger (Pretty first name for a guy who likes to make fun of Jagger's effeminate behavior).
Rock and roll,
Mops

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Date: October 12, 2013 15:21

Quote
rollmops
I wonder if Baker is still fighting the londonian "Jazz-trad" vs "R&B/R&R" fight of the early 60's? Time to move on, Ginger (Pretty first name for a guy who likes to make fun of Jagger's effeminate behavior).
Rock and roll,
Mops

ginger is a nickname and i believe it is because of his red hair. his name is really PETER EDWARD BAKER

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: vudicus ()
Date: October 12, 2013 15:29

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-09 21:29 by vudicus.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 12, 2013 15:31

Quote
rollmops
I wonder if Baker is still fighting the londonian "Jazz-trad" vs "R&B/R&R" fight of the early 60's?

I wonder if sees another jazz-freak, Charlie, as a some kind of traitor...grinning smiley

But it is nice to see how well him and Charlie get along, Ginger not being the easiest person to get along with, to say it mildly. Charlie has always been a big fan of his. This is actually the first time I see Ginger giving some credit to Charlie as well.

- Doxa

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: October 12, 2013 22:28


Brian Rasic

Charlie presenting the Zildjian Drummers Achievement Award to Ginger Baker at Shepherds Bush Empire in London, December 2008.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: rob51 ()
Date: October 12, 2013 23:16

I don't think Ginger Bakers dislike of the Stones as musicians is over the top or even surprising really? He's a true musician afterall and never posed once in all his years at the top. Charlie's also a good player although his style's completely different from Bakers. Still you have to be good to play the way Charlie does while any halfassed guitar player could replace Keith or Woody with nobody having noticed since about the early 80's or so. I still love the band! But let's face it in a career lasting in to it's 5th decade now the Rolling Stones were really only great for 2 of those. The rest of the time they've posed and faked their way through making use of ton's of extra players live and penning ever more disappointing material for their meager studio output.
Jagger can still sound good at times. And I much prefer his 2000+ voice compared to his late 70's to late 90's approach. Still an amazing performer as well although I've never truely been a fan of the effeminet danceing crap. Move around sure! But you ain't a black chick Mr. and especially now in your elderly years, a little less camp and a little more substance would be muchly appreciated.
And what can one say about Mr.Keith Richards these past 30yr's or so? Not a truely classic lick or riff to be heard. And please don't try to pawn off anything he's done in years to the incredible stuff he used to do so seemingly effortlessly. Can't You Hear Me Knockin-1971 I think? Tumblin Dice in 1972. Rain Fall Down and Gloom n Doom sometime in the 2000th. Not even close in my opinion. And if this is what Ginger Baker's commenting on than I agree completely. Keith doesn't play well anymore. And he hasn't writen anything worth hearing for over 30 years. A real sad shame I know. The truth though no matter how hard to take. And the more you think about it the more you realize Ginger Bakers right.
Ron Wood? Pass. And they don't really have a bass player any more do they? Daryll's probably a great player for all I know? But a Stone? I don't think so so you can't really include him. He'll play what's expected of him and do it well I'm sure. He's no Bill Wyman however and Ronnie's just barely acceptable compared to other good players out there. Maybe it's mean of me to still think so? But Woody had the right look and was in fact English back when he was hired. That and he wasn't miles better than Keith, like M.Taylor had always been.

Re: Ginger Baker: Charlie fan - Rolling Stone, October 11
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: October 13, 2013 00:31

Brian was probably the best musician of them all.

Baker has a point, technically the Stones are not great players. But put them together in a room, and magic happens.

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