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Erik_Snow

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Doxa

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Erik_Snow
THere are places he fumbles, especially during the first 1-2 minutes of every CYHMK solo on this tour....it's not like it's the perfect solo, but there are great moments there as well, especially during the mid to end part of the solo. I think it's a thrill overall, despite the bumps, as it's a reminder on how it could had been, IF they had been in their prime and was playing music; instead of these Start Me Ups, Rough Justices and whatever.

I'm waiting for the solo to fall completely apart any second in this clip, so it's exciting to watch; and real good when Taylor do find them great notes. The whole band seems to be real excited, as well, much more than I've seen them before, on other tours

Taylor hasn't lost it....but he's not what he used to be, for sure, but he's really trying his best; instead of going on autopilot like RS has been doing for 20 years, with a couple of exceptions now and then

A fine description, Erik, and I wholeheartidy agree with the ups and down you mention. We are following the same story...

But what is striking in watching this clip is that there is not an equavalent in recent Stones history - if ever - that a singular instrumentalist is given so much responsibility in his shoulders without any kind of safe belt. He is there "naked". No one can help him - or the band - if he totally screws ups. It is really "see what happens" moment, and I think the rest of the band is equally excited as the crowd in following what happens. And the fact that it is Taylor - a born improvisionalist - there who really don't understand what safe and sure autopilotism even means. They didn't even try to try this with Woodie back in 2002/03. So my thumbs up for the whole band for taking the risky involved.

- Doxa

True that! Well, it's almost true. Because Keith did screw up terrible in 2006/2007, just watch SFTD in the Shine A Light movie as an example (there are much worse moments available on bootlegs) , yet he continued his "solo" - and I think Jagger never would allow "Taylor without safety belt" on this 2013 tour if it wasn't for what he experienced on the ABB tour.

Maybe he met his worst fear on that tour....standing in front of 100.000. with such horrible guitarplaying making the songs fall apart. After something like .....that he shouldn't be that afraid of having Taylor soloing for 4 minutes. Well...it COULD be like that I suppose

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treaclefingers
After singing the wrong parts to Rocks Off and having the whole thing almost crash (thanks to Bernard and Lisa, who oversang WAY LOUDER to get Mick back on track), I think he should be prepared to let almost anything slide.

That and the fact they just generally sucked on this song made it the worst song of the evening imho.

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Doxa
Yeah. I need to repeat myself
- Doxa

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StonesTod

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Doxa
Yeah. I need to repeat myself
- Doxa

it's prolly the beans...

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Erik_Snow

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treaclefingers
After singing the wrong parts to Rocks Off and having the whole thing almost crash (thanks to Bernard and Lisa, who oversang WAY LOUDER to get Mick back on track), I think he should be prepared to let almost anything slide.

That and the fact they just generally sucked on this song made it the worst song of the evening imho.

Oh but there has big mistakes on stage ever since the beginning, but it's different to have an uncapable player having several minutes in the spotlight, without getting back on track....like some Keith solos in 06/07

Haven't heard Rocks Off from Toronto yet, btw

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pmk251
Nice posts ES and Doxa. I think you recognize the heart of the matter. I have seen a dozen or so of Taylor shows since '99. There are often moments when Taylor is searching on stage. It is the nature of his art. But when he finds those moments of musical inspiration all is well. He often requires some patience. He usually gets there for a payoff.

But what strikes me about many of the comments about the recent shows is how many recognize a point that is difficult to precisely express. It is the difference he makes on stage whether he hits a bum note or wanders or "noodles" (in a pejorative sense) or with his sometimes curious stage manner...Somehow he validates what is going on there. He makes you listen. It feels (for better or worse) real. The impact is huge. I cannot explain it, but I have missed it. Apparently others have too. I understand the criticism of Taylor. I agree with some of it. But ultimately I think the criticism is petty and misses his more important indescribable impact. With him it is a whole different band (in a good sense). Just watch Jagger during the LA first performance of CYHMK. When was the last time you've seen something like THAT?

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treaclefingers

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pmk251
Nice posts ES and Doxa. I think you recognize the heart of the matter. I have seen a dozen or so of Taylor shows since '99. There are often moments when Taylor is searching on stage. It is the nature of his art. But when he finds those moments of musical inspiration all is well. He often requires some patience. He usually gets there for a payoff.

But what strikes me about many of the comments about the recent shows is how many recognize a point that is difficult to precisely express. It is the difference he makes on stage whether he hits a bum note or wanders or "noodles" (in a pejorative sense) or with his sometimes curious stage manner...Somehow he validates what is going on there. He makes you listen. It feels (for better or worse) real. The impact is huge. I cannot explain it, but I have missed it. Apparently others have too. I understand the criticism of Taylor. I agree with some of it. But ultimately I think the criticism is petty and misses his more important indescribable impact. With him it is a whole different band (in a good sense). Just watch Jagger during the LA first performance of CYHMK. When was the last time you've seen something like THAT?

spot on.

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svt22
After listening to Taylor's last 4 minutes CYHMN solo, it leaves me with mixed emotions again. He appears to be a very devoted artist on stage, but at the same time lacking fundamental routine, very shaky, although he's adding some surprisingly interesting melodic ideas, and playing some mean sounding riffs/chords.
But then the audience is going crazy, they even seem to recognize his famous GS Philly '72 lick, and the band enjoys his playing, at least they do a focussed job while backing him up.

I really wonder if Jagger and Richards at last forgive Taylor for leaving the Stones when this tour is finished.

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gotdablouse

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DandelionPowderman
Not too good, imo. Keith starts it way too slow, and Taylor is not doing a good solo...

Not as good as in LA but better than in CHI/3 I'd say, he was maybe a tad loud though, they really can't seem to get his sound right! Not sure if he was on the Rythm or Treble position this time, LA/2 was Rythm and it sounded better, so...

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baldboy
Woody on Licks tour perfectly duplicated Knocking solo

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baldboy

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gotdablouse

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DandelionPowderman
Not too good, imo. Keith starts it way too slow, and Taylor is not doing a good solo...

Not as good as in LA but better than in CHI/3 I'd say, he was maybe a tad loud though, they really can't seem to get his sound right! Not sure if he was on the Rythm or Treble position this time, LA/2 was Rythm and it sounded better, so...

May 25 show in TO was the better of the TO shows. Woody on Licks tour perfectly duplicated Knocking solo, better than Taylor on this tour unless you fancy improvisation which is cool too. Love Taylor period but really sick of the veneration, Stones roll on as long as the holy trinity of Jagger-Richards-Watts intact.

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StonesTod

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treaclefingers

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pmk251
Nice posts ES and Doxa. I think you recognize the heart of the matter. I have seen a dozen or so of Taylor shows since '99. There are often moments when Taylor is searching on stage. It is the nature of his art. But when he finds those moments of musical inspiration all is well. He often requires some patience. He usually gets there for a payoff.

But what strikes me about many of the comments about the recent shows is how many recognize a point that is difficult to precisely express. It is the difference he makes on stage whether he hits a bum note or wanders or "noodles" (in a pejorative sense) or with his sometimes curious stage manner...Somehow he validates what is going on there. He makes you listen. It feels (for better or worse) real. The impact is huge. I cannot explain it, but I have missed it. Apparently others have too. I understand the criticism of Taylor. I agree with some of it. But ultimately I think the criticism is petty and misses his more important indescribable impact. With him it is a whole different band (in a good sense). Just watch Jagger during the LA first performance of CYHMK. When was the last time you've seen something like THAT?

spot on.

wait a minute...we're praising a post that basically says there's nothing that can be said?

i wanna know, then, why more of my posts aren't being praised, cos i neve say anything.....

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treaclefingers

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StonesTod

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treaclefingers

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pmk251
Nice posts ES and Doxa. I think you recognize the heart of the matter. I have seen a dozen or so of Taylor shows since '99. There are often moments when Taylor is searching on stage. It is the nature of his art. But when he finds those moments of musical inspiration all is well. He often requires some patience. He usually gets there for a payoff.

But what strikes me about many of the comments about the recent shows is how many recognize a point that is difficult to precisely express. It is the difference he makes on stage whether he hits a bum note or wanders or "noodles" (in a pejorative sense) or with his sometimes curious stage manner...Somehow he validates what is going on there. He makes you listen. It feels (for better or worse) real. The impact is huge. I cannot explain it, but I have missed it. Apparently others have too. I understand the criticism of Taylor. I agree with some of it. But ultimately I think the criticism is petty and misses his more important indescribable impact. With him it is a whole different band (in a good sense). Just watch Jagger during the LA first performance of CYHMK. When was the last time you've seen something like THAT?

spot on.

wait a minute...we're praising a post that basically says there's nothing that can be said?

i wanna know, then, why more of my posts aren't being praised, cos i neve say anything.....

no matter how much flack I get I've always supported your generally weak efforts.

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andrewt

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pinkfloydthebarber

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andrewt
Regarding the whole You Had To Be There bullsh!t: The whole point of posting YouTube clips is to have something for the people who couldn't be at the show to have something to comment on.
Alienating the 90% of people reading the thread who weren't at the show by implying their opinions don't matter is more of a buzzkill for the thread than
than any criticism of the performance.

yeah, well anyone can just go see the clips on youtube even if they aren't posted here

i've watched a hundred clips from this tour from previous dates...and nothing, none of 'em, even remotely comes close, obviously, to what i heard in person last night

watch them for fun, though.. not to play pretend music critic

anyhow most (if not all) the posted clips have crap sound, and half the time the picture is lousy too

the guy what posted here earlier with the 'sex tape' comment was spot on; you can't criticize dick all if you didn't hear it live.....so I am sorry, but judging how 'good' or 'terrible' something was, that was played, from a phone camera just doesn't count for squat...

and why would anyone criticize it anyway? something they weren't even at? and play judge, jury and executioner from some crappy, tinny phone cam footage?

THAT"S the real buzz kill..

You're preaching to the choir, my friend.

I was at the show and it's 100x better to be at the show. Hands down.

I've also spent the last six months following the band via clips posted here. So clearly the Stones matter to me. Therefore I had to jump in and defend the decent, hard-working Stones fans who are working with what they've got.
If I didn't, I'd be a hypocrite, and I'm not into being a hypocrite. That's my line of thinking.

Some YouTube clips are obviously better than others. They range from "wow that almost looks pro shot" to one level up from ten years ago when your buddy would call you from a concert on his flip- phone and yell "HEY MAN CHECK THIS OUT!", hold up his phone and all you'd hear was "pffffggttttttttt".

One thing I'd suggest for people joining in when the clips get posted is: hold off on a blanket judgement, concentrate on specifics and, wait a day or two until all the stuff gets uploaded and check a couple of sources because the video that gets posted first is not necessarily the best.

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SomeTorontoGirl
From today's Toronto Star

[www.thestar.com]

For Gunther Guhbin, it was the ultimate buzz kill.
The father’s dream of seeing the Rolling Stones with his kids was dashed Thursday night when security at the Air Canada Centre turned him away from the concert. They say he was drunk, something he and his family vigorously deny.
Either way, the result is the same. When the price of tickets, drinks and a limousine is taken into account, it was a more than $1,700 blunder.
“I couldn’t believe it. I still can’t believe it,” Guhbin gasped Friday, after his daughter contacted the Star with their story. “I always wanted to take them to the Stones, and I didn’t think we’d ever get to do it,” he said. “I’m crushed.”
Photos View gallery
zoom
Guhbin’s cautionary tale begins when he surprised his three kids with tickets to the June 6 Stones show at the ACC.
When time came for the concert, the gang of four hopped in a limo from Waterdown, near Hamilton, and headed for the big city. Guhbin, a 52-year-old lawn maintenance man, last saw the British Invasion sensations in 1982. Figuring Thursday’s Toronto show might be his last chance to see the aging band with his kids, Guhbin was bouncing with excitement, said daughter Jessica, 32.
“He was like a little kid,” she said.
The group was dropped off at a downtown bar for dinner. Jessica said she and her of-age brother had three drinks each, while her youngest brother had none. Guhbin said he had six or seven.
After at least two hours, the family made its way to the ACC. At the gate, a security guard told Guhbin he was too drunk and loud, and had “crazy eyes,” said Jessica. She said security took Guhbin and his 16-year-old son’s tickets away, and police asked them to leave.
“We weren’t drunk or nothing,” insisted Guhbin, describing how they had the awareness to call a lawyer, call the newspaper and go to two more bars after they left to buy drinks and keep the receipts as proof that weren’t too drunk to get served.
“If we were that loaded, we wouldn’t have been doing all that,” Guhbin said.
Bob Hunter, MLSE’s executive vice president of venues and entertainment, acknowledged a security guard’s judgment as to drunkenness is “subjective,” but said they cannot let “overly intoxicated” ticket holders into the arena for safety reasons. He added that MLSE doesn’t want to lose its liquor licence.
“Are we overly diligent? Yes, probably, but we have to be. We have 16,000 guests in here,” said Hunter.
When asked why Guhbin’s tickets were taken away, Hunter said it’s to stop those turned away from trying to get in at other gates. Hunter was aware of Guhbin’s incident before being contacted by the Star, and asserted the father was denied entry for good reason.
“This guy stood out through thousands of people,” said Hunter. “He was beyond what we would allow.”
Guhbin was flabbergasted by that assessment, and said he was still “bummed out” by how his high hopes of a memorable night were suddenly deflated.
“My dad was in tears when we were leaving that place,” Jessica said.

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StonesTod

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baldboy
Woody on Licks tour perfectly duplicated Knocking solo

excuse me? what's that again?

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RockinJive

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StonesTod

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baldboy
Woody on Licks tour perfectly duplicated Knocking solo

excuse me? what's that again?

That's true he did. he played Taylor better than Taylor on that song. Closer to the original.

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RockinJive

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StonesTod

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baldboy
Woody on Licks tour perfectly duplicated Knocking solo

excuse me? what's that again?

That's true he did. he played Taylor better than Taylor on that song. Closer to the original.

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andrewt

.................

MT's solo on CYHMK - judge for yourself





........................

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Tonyz

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andrewt

Train Wreck, anyone?

Hahaha... wow! I knew it was a mess, but I didn't know it was that bad!
Still loved it though, and they fixed stuff up about halfway through.

But still, stick with ADTL guys.

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DoomandGloom
Well if you're going to screw up, screw up royally... The Stones should erase this off UTUBE. Eric Clapton used to say the best thing about a concert is when you make a mistake it's over. Let's give them the same courtesy..

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His Majesty

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Doxa

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Stoneage
There are some positive things with CYHMK, like Taylor making a difference and the fact that it's not a warhorse. But still I'm a Little ambivalent about fusion jazz in 2013.
And it looks like the rest of the band feels something like that too.

I can see your point, and I'm not a fan of that genre at all (as younger I would have put my stance much rougher, to say it mildly...)

But then again, this is a band who once made a rock and roll anthem out of samba, and rock classics with a sitar, or from a disco beat, etc. So for me that little experiment with "fusion jazz" goes along that line. It is refreshing that they still so late in their game are able to enrich their musical vocabulary.

I think the problem is more with the hardcore fans who have too closed shop deal how the Stones should sound like...

- Doxa

Doxa, he's just not playing all that well, there is much in the way of bluffing here. There's no more danger or creativity in Taylor's CYHMK soloing than Jaggers harmonica solo on the same song. Jaggers solo was actually better played, risky and indeed an adventure.

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Stones Blah

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SomeTorontoGirl
From today's Toronto Star

[www.thestar.com]

For Gunther Guhbin, it was the ultimate buzz kill.
The father’s dream of seeing the Rolling Stones with his kids was dashed Thursday night when security at the Air Canada Centre turned him away from the concert. They say he was drunk, something he and his family vigorously deny.
Either way, the result is the same. When the price of tickets, drinks and a limousine is taken into account, it was a more than $1,700 blunder.
“I couldn’t believe it. I still can’t believe it,” Guhbin gasped Friday, after his daughter contacted the Star with their story. “I always wanted to take them to the Stones, and I didn’t think we’d ever get to do it,” he said. “I’m crushed.”
Photos View gallery
zoom
Guhbin’s cautionary tale begins when he surprised his three kids with tickets to the June 6 Stones show at the ACC.
When time came for the concert, the gang of four hopped in a limo from Waterdown, near Hamilton, and headed for the big city. Guhbin, a 52-year-old lawn maintenance man, last saw the British Invasion sensations in 1982. Figuring Thursday’s Toronto show might be his last chance to see the aging band with his kids, Guhbin was bouncing with excitement, said daughter Jessica, 32.
“He was like a little kid,” she said.
The group was dropped off at a downtown bar for dinner. Jessica said she and her of-age brother had three drinks each, while her youngest brother had none. Guhbin said he had six or seven.
After at least two hours, the family made its way to the ACC. At the gate, a security guard told Guhbin he was too drunk and loud, and had “crazy eyes,” said Jessica. She said security took Guhbin and his 16-year-old son’s tickets away, and police asked them to leave.
“We weren’t drunk or nothing,” insisted Guhbin, describing how they had the awareness to call a lawyer, call the newspaper and go to two more bars after they left to buy drinks and keep the receipts as proof that weren’t too drunk to get served.
“If we were that loaded, we wouldn’t have been doing all that,” Guhbin said.
Bob Hunter, MLSE’s executive vice president of venues and entertainment, acknowledged a security guard’s judgment as to drunkenness is “subjective,” but said they cannot let “overly intoxicated” ticket holders into the arena for safety reasons. He added that MLSE doesn’t want to lose its liquor licence.
“Are we overly diligent? Yes, probably, but we have to be. We have 16,000 guests in here,” said Hunter.
When asked why Guhbin’s tickets were taken away, Hunter said it’s to stop those turned away from trying to get in at other gates. Hunter was aware of Guhbin’s incident before being contacted by the Star, and asserted the father was denied entry for good reason.
“This guy stood out through thousands of people,” said Hunter. “He was beyond what we would allow.”
Guhbin was flabbergasted by that assessment, and said he was still “bummed out” by how his high hopes of a memorable night were suddenly deflated.
“My dad was in tears when we were leaving that place,” Jessica said.