<let's face it>

I thought you weren't telling me what I shouldn't like?

And you're way off thinking that what I find interesting in a rhythm guitar has anything to do with technical abilities at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 15:27 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<let's face it>

I thought you weren't telling me what I shouldn't like?

And you're way off thinking that what I find interesting in a rhythm guitar has anything to do with technical abilities at all.

Not telling you what you shouldn't like. Obviously I know what you like. I just think some of your arguments (and Mathijs') are weak. Thin Lizzy? Really?

Those who criticize Taylor on technical or ability grounds (I am not necessarily saying you) leave themselves open to criticisms of Wood on the same grounds, and there are far more damning examples one could post if we wish to have the discussion on the level of technical ability. And I am not just talking about solos.

"Let's face it" comes across as a ruling technique that I don't like.

I hope it wasn't meant that way.

It is mainly within style we differ, when it comes to guitar playing. We share the same favourite band, and obviously a lot of other music as well.

There should be no need for belittling or ridiculing, imo.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
"Let's face it" comes across as a ruling technique that I don't like.

I hope it wasn't meant that way.

It is mainly within style we differ, when it comes to guitar playing. We share the same favourite band, and obviously a lot of other music as well.

There should be no need for belittling or ridiculing, imo.

This would be an extremely short thread in that case.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
"Let's face it" comes across as a ruling technique that I don't like.

I hope it wasn't meant that way.

It is mainly within style we differ, when it comes to guitar playing. We share the same favourite band, and obviously a lot of other music as well.

There should be no need for belittling or ridiculing, imo.

Agreed. You have always been a gentleman.

Quote
71Tele
No, it isn't just about taste when Mathijs repeatedly claims Taylor can't play, his playing his mis-timed, he can only do "simple chordal work", etc. As for Satisfaction in 1969, you may be not able to listen to it (too bad for you) but you are just wrong. It isn't just soloing, it's Keith and Taylor doing interlocking parts> Listen especially from 2:55. Compare this to any recent live version. There is nothing like the tension and excitement in the two guitars that exist in this version. Simple chordal work, my ass.

That bit from 2:55 on is fantastic, it sure is. It really is one of the best live bits ever. But the first 2 minutes isn't fantastic at all: that bloody rhythm playing by Taylor is just frigging annoying! Listen from 0:45 on: I can stand that belting out plain, simple chords. It's boring, and interferes with the fantastic groove had. Taylor then picks it up with lead guitar, which sure is great. As we expect from Taylor.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
71Tele
No, it isn't just about taste when Mathijs repeatedly claims Taylor can't play, his playing his mis-timed, he can only do "simple chordal work", etc. As for Satisfaction in 1969, you may be not able to listen to it (too bad for you) but you are just wrong. It isn't just soloing, it's Keith and Taylor doing interlocking parts> Listen especially from 2:55. Compare this to any recent live version. There is nothing like the tension and excitement in the two guitars that exist in this version. Simple chordal work, my ass.

That bit from 2:55 on is fantastic, it sure is. It really is one of the best live bits ever. But the first 2 minutes isn't fantastic at all: that bloody rhythm playing by Taylor is just frigging annoying! Listen from 0:45 on: I can stand that belting out plain, simple chords. It's boring, and interferes with the fantastic groove had. Taylor then picks it up with lead guitar, which sure is great. As we expect from Taylor.



Mathijs

Instead of the well known E-A-D-A chords etc Taylor just plays perfect fourths
from 0:45 and onwards, derived from Keith's main riff. Inverted power chords if you wish, with an amazing sound. I like it, he was way ahead of his time, when it comes to good ol STF.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

You saucy little minx. That post is so crazy it's genius.

Quote
flacnvinyl
Ronnie is by far the most underrated guitarist in rocknroll history. I would love to have a beer with him in my lifetime.

And he is probably also one of the most interesting guitarists around. He is impossible to put in a simple category like "riffmaster" or "elite soloist" but still incredibly successful and popular (which is probably why he makes certain people so nervous).

I really enjoyed reading the comments above about Ronnie actually beeing more true to the blues roots than the blues guitar hero generation of the 60s. It's so true. Ronnie simply "outblueses" all the Heros musically and "outrocks" them regarding stage presence and charisma.

Ouch, must be a joke. Like it.

::



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 20:56 by Powerage.

"that bloody rhythm playing by Taylor is just frigging annoying! Listen from 0:45 on" Mathijs It absurd to make critical judgments on concerts recorded 45 years ago... The Stones in 1969 played for the moment, while this moment was recorded professionally for GS it is out of context to take individual performances and put them under today's microscope. No matter if you like or dislike Taylor's approach this night as a guitarist it should not be hard to understand what his instincts are inspiring him to play here: the guitarists are badly out of tune and Taylor is choosing his spot carefully in the early verses which is the normal thing to do in an age before electronic tuners.
Putting 1969 up against today's standards is tempting. The Stones 69 tour pioneered modern touring, when Keith returned he met with George Harrison and informed him how things had change. Proper vocal monitoring and adequate PA's were available in America, Harrison said it had come too late for the Beatles.
This baiting obnoxious thread began as veiled tribute to Ronnie ,morphed into a Taylorite convention which turned ugly on Ron pretty quickly. Attempting to attack Taylor now may seem appropriate but to what end? I was happy to apologize for slamming Ron particularly for CYHMK. It's time for Mathijs to apologize for his pounding on Taylor for no legitimate reason as anyone with ears and a love for The Stones knows Mick is one of the most significant players in rock history.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
71Tele
No, it isn't just about taste when Mathijs repeatedly claims Taylor can't play, his playing his mis-timed, he can only do "simple chordal work", etc. As for Satisfaction in 1969, you may be not able to listen to it (too bad for you) but you are just wrong. It isn't just soloing, it's Keith and Taylor doing interlocking parts> Listen especially from 2:55. Compare this to any recent live version. There is nothing like the tension and excitement in the two guitars that exist in this version. Simple chordal work, my ass.

That bit from 2:55 on is fantastic, it sure is. It really is one of the best live bits ever. But the first 2 minutes isn't fantastic at all: that bloody rhythm playing by Taylor is just frigging annoying! Listen from 0:45 on: I can stand that belting out plain, simple chords. It's boring, and interferes with the fantastic groove had. Taylor then picks it up with lead guitar, which sure is great. As we expect from Taylor.

Mathijs

I'm surprised anyone can find fault with that.......

Wonderful groove, and a completely effortless performance......

Its The Stones at their finest!

What a drag it is gettin' old

[www.rollingstones.com] (you know, the official website ^^

Mick Taylor holds a special place in the select pantheon of Rolling Stones Guitarists. He was there at what many consider to be the height of the band’s achievements. What a guitarist, and what a legacy.

(...)

What’s also an interesting question is, “Have The Rolling Stones ever been as good as they were when Mick Taylor was in the band ?”

Answer in the question, funny game ><



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 21:16 by Powerage.

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Ronnie practices with the band and has toured with the band since 1975. Taylor hasnt. I think theres a misunderstanding in the thread. I'm not participating in a contest, Im debating. This is not sports. LYL is one of my favourite albums. I enjoy many contributions by Ronnie, esp. in the 70s. Both playing and songwriting (Hey Negrita riff, Shattered riff). Taylor is still a much much much better guitarist, not just solos, everything, licks rhythm, fills, songwriting (cowriting with the Stones).

did you read the rehearsel thread for the 50th anniversary shows ? did you read the rehearsel thread for the 50 and counting shows, did you read the rehearsel thread about the 14 and counting shows? mick taylor did REHEARSE with the stones.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
71Tele
No, it isn't just about taste when Mathijs repeatedly claims Taylor can't play, his playing his mis-timed, he can only do "simple chordal work", etc. As for Satisfaction in 1969, you may be not able to listen to it (too bad for you) but you are just wrong. It isn't just soloing, it's Keith and Taylor doing interlocking parts> Listen especially from 2:55. Compare this to any recent live version. There is nothing like the tension and excitement in the two guitars that exist in this version. Simple chordal work, my ass.

That bit from 2:55 on is fantastic, it sure is. It really is one of the best live bits ever. But the first 2 minutes isn't fantastic at all: that bloody rhythm playing by Taylor is just frigging annoying! Listen from 0:45 on: I can stand that belting out plain, simple chords. It's boring, and interferes with the fantastic groove had. Taylor then picks it up with lead guitar, which sure is great. As we expect from Taylor.

Mathijs

Well there you go. I think it's the opposite of boring. What they have been doing for the last 20 years on this song, however, is the very definition of boring. No tension. They just play a rough version of the studio version except keith usually can't be bothered with the most distinctive part of the studio version - the fuzz tone on the riff. In '69 they borrowed a bit of the Otis Redding version, vamped on the riff while jagger improvised, and the guitars did something slightly different each night. And you find that boring. OK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 21:52 by 71Tele.

I mostly agree with Tele on this, but in the interests of fairness it's worth saying that some of the Satisfactions they did last year were absolutely great (although, IMO, that wasn't a musical thing so much as the fantastic carnival atmosphere they whipped up with Satisfaction as the final encore, particularly at Glastonbury).

Oh, about Ronnie: his solo on the Stripped version of Love In Vain is really beautiful. The stuff he plays over the walkdown and turnaround is great and totally in the spirit of the Let It Bleed recording (this is one of the few Stones songs where I feel no need to compare different versions and rate them - the original is wonderful, the legendary live versions with Taylor are incredible in their own way, and this recording is great too.)







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 22:15 by Stoneburst.

Quote
Stoneburst
I mostly agree with Tele on this, but in the interests of fairness it's worth saying that some of the Satisfactions they did last year were absolutely great (although, IMO, that wasn't a musical thing so much as the fantastic carnival atmosphere they whipped up with Satisfaction as the final encore, particularly at Glastonbury).

Agree, but I was speaking in strictly musical terms.

Quote
Bärs

Quote
flacnvinyl
Ronnie is by far the most underrated guitarist in rocknroll history. I would love to have a beer with him in my lifetime.

And he is probably also one of the most interesting guitarists around. He is impossible to put in a simple category like "riffmaster" or "elite soloist" but still incredibly successful and popular (which is probably why he makes certain people so nervous).

I really enjoyed reading the comments above about Ronnie actually beeing more true to the blues roots than the blues guitar hero generation of the 60s. It's so true. Ronnie simply "outblueses" all the Heros musically and "outrocks" them regarding stage presence and charisma.

I get the point about Ronnie being true to the blues and his style being unique. In some ways he's a real blues player and more so than many others who are much better.

Quote
Stoneburst
Oh, about Ronnie: his solo on the Stripped version of Love In Vain is really beautiful. The stuff he plays over the walkdown and turnaround is great and totally in the spirit of the Let It Bleed recording (this is one of the few Stones songs where I feel no need to compare different versions and rate them - the original is wonderful, the legendary live versions with Taylor are incredible in their own way, and this recording is great too.)

That's how it should be, imo. All the guitar players in the Stones have their kind of beauty in their respective styles. Brian included.

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
Bärs

Quote
flacnvinyl
Ronnie is by far the most underrated guitarist in rocknroll history. I would love to have a beer with him in my lifetime.

And he is probably also one of the most interesting guitarists around. He is impossible to put in a simple category like "riffmaster" or "elite soloist" but still incredibly successful and popular (which is probably why he makes certain people so nervous).

I really enjoyed reading the comments above about Ronnie actually beeing more true to the blues roots than the blues guitar hero generation of the 60s. It's so true. Ronnie simply "outblueses" all the Heros musically and "outrocks" them regarding stage presence and charisma.

I get the point about Ronnie being true to the blues and his style being unique. In some ways he's a real blues player and more so than many others who are much better.

+1

On the Faces 'Open To Ideas' you'll notice at 1:59 / 2:00 one can hear Rod Stewart saying 'Mick Taylor'. This is probably a signal for Ron Wood to try and play something Mick Taylor-ish... which of course the former couldn't (I'm surprised Rod Stewart even tried) and what follows is the typical sub-par unscholarly Ron Wood effort.





'I took Sleepy John Estes for everything I could get' Ry Cooder



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-06 01:07 by TonyMo.

Quote
Powerage


Ouch, must be a joke. Like it.

::

A sore spot?

Quote
andrewt

Quote
DandelionPowderman

You saucy little minx. That post is so crazy it's genius.

I know many don´t like the song, but what´s not to like about the solo? ><

Quote
TonyMo
On the Faces 'Open To Ideas' you'll notice at 1:59 / 2:00 one can hear Rod Stewart saying 'Mick Taylor'. This is probably a signal for Ron Wood to try and play something Mick Taylor-ish... which of course the former couldn't (it's surprised Rod Stewart even tried) and what follows is the typical sub-par unscholarly Ron Wood effort.

You make this thread a better place! ><

Quote
71Tele
No, it isn't just about taste when Mathijs repeatedly claims Taylor can't play, his playing his mis-timed, he can only do "simple chordal work", etc. As for Satisfaction in 1969, you may be not able to listen to it (too bad for you) but you are just wrong. It isn't just soloing, it's Keith and Taylor doing interlocking parts> Listen especially from 2:55. Compare this to any recent live version. There is nothing like the tension and excitement in the two guitars that exist in this version. Simple chordal work, my ass.

2:55 Bingo!! I've always thought 'Satisfaction' was a poorly constructed riff that paled in comparison to 'Daytripper'. Apparently, Mick Taylor thought the same thing!

'I took Sleepy John Estes for everything I could get' Ry Cooder



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 23:04 by TonyMo.

Otis liked both, though, without any adding to the riff

Quote
TonyMo
On the Faces 'Open To Ideas' you'll notice at 1:59 / 2:00 one can hear Rod Stewart saying 'Mick Taylor'. This is probably a signal for Ron Wood to try and play something Mick Taylor-ish... which of course the former couldn't (it's surprised Rod Stewart even tried) and what follows is the typical sub-par unscholarly Ron Wood effort.

Middle eight (bridge)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 23:24 by Redhotcarpet.

No solos but, and thats my point, nice sounding blues licks on slide. Nothing spcial but great sound and, i dont know how to put it, nice fills/licks/sounds.
It's not the vivid soundscape and perfectly timed and expressed psychodrama of Taylor which went hand in hand with Keith and Jagger.
Not even close.
This is the sleezy slithery bottleneck cousin of Mississippi moaning and sliding recklessly alongside Keiths now erratic killer on the run. This is the aftermath of 1972 and 1973. These are the sounds of the guitarists in a cokearmoured car in Arkansas.










Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-05 23:36 by Redhotcarpet.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
andrewt

Quote
DandelionPowderman

You saucy little minx. That post is so crazy it's genius.

I know many don´t like the song, but what´s not to like about the solo? ><

Yeah the solo is pretty cool. I think that's the first time that I made it that far through the song since 1985!