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Max'sKansasCity
Sheesh... it seems everyone missed the whole point of this article and quote.

talk about whoooooosh

yup.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Max'sKansasCity
Sheesh... it seems everyone missed the whole point of this article and quote.

talk about whoooooosh

yup.

Are we allowed to quote our own selves?
Thats fantastic! I thought that was grandstanding?!?!

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Munichhilton

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Max'sKansasCity

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Max'sKansasCity
Sheesh... it seems everyone missed the whole point of this article and quote.

talk about whoooooosh

yup.

Are we allowed to quote our own selves?
Thats fantastic! I thought that was grandstanding?!?!

Who better to quote than someone you usually agree with?

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Max'sKansasCity

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Munichhilton

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Max'sKansasCity

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Max'sKansasCity
Sheesh... it seems everyone missed the whole point of this article and quote.

talk about whoooooosh

yup.

Are we allowed to quote our own selves?
Thats fantastic! I thought that was grandstanding?!?!

Who better to quote than someone you usually agree with?

Brilliant!...wait...usually?

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Munichhilton

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Max'sKansasCity

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Munichhilton

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Max'sKansasCity

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Max'sKansasCity
Sheesh... it seems everyone missed the whole point of this article and quote.

talk about whoooooosh

yup.

Are we allowed to quote our own selves?
Thats fantastic! I thought that was grandstanding?!?!

Who better to quote than someone you usually agree with?

Brilliant!...wait...usually?

wait... what?

Anyhoo...

its still Neil Peart...I have a call into his people's people.
We'll see...

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Munichhilton
Anyhoo...

its still Neil Peart...I have a call into his people's people.
We'll see...

His people is Alex Lifeson.

His people's people is Geddy Lee.

Just in case you were wondering who was going to reply.

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton
Anyhoo...

its still Neil Peart...I have a call into his people's people.
We'll see...

His people is Alex Lifeson.

His people's people is Geddy Lee.

Just in case you were wondering who was going to reply.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh
I know that...you're ruining this for me

I wonder what Tim Ries thinks about Tim Rice.

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schillid
I wonder what Tim Ries thinks about Tim Rice.

Or vice-versa

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Munichhilton

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton
Anyhoo...

its still Neil Peart...I have a call into his people's people.
We'll see...

His people is Alex Lifeson.

His people's people is Geddy Lee.

Just in case you were wondering who was going to reply.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh
I know that...you're ruining this for me

I bet your nipples are still Peart though.

Again, the original point is being missed/ignored.

..... I'm with Mr Rice all the way ....
Mick and the other Glimmer talk my kinda talk ...



ROCKMAN

Everyone steals stuff. These bands didn't invent the guitar...
Zeppelin probably stole more material than anyone... check out this link, and feel free to search for more stolen material from zeppelin (more geared toward the lyrics) [myfivebest.com]

Mick got some lyrics for sympathy for the devil from a book, but the book didn't write the song. The same can be said for Zep: meaning, perhaps they stole a riff or a lyrics or two, but they took the song to to the next level.
This is firepower for another debate musicianship/ talent versus songwriting ability/ lyricist.

I think the key is, if someone has stolen bits and pieces or a word or two from something that was created before.......:
Has anyone done it better?
The evolution of music allows some stealing or copying. Like I said, these band didn't event the guitar, does that mean they're not allowed to use one? Also, they aren't copying entire lyrics, just referencing their being.

I think Jagger is a GREAT lyricist, but certainly not the best. End of discussion. Why? Because I said so...

I would like to take a brief moment to point out one person who is one of the best modern day lyricists (also, not the best ever); and, I believe that Adam Duritz, from the Counting Crows, is one of the best lyricists from my generation. I am 29 y/o. With that being said, Im having a tough time to judge who the BEST of all time would be. Maybe my age doesn't have anything to do with it... maybe it's b/c 80% of what I listen to is only Rolling Stones. Here's Adam Duritz... listen to the lyrics, but disregard the wierd video for "Dream of Michelangelo"

EDIT: the link may not work, but here are some great Adam Duritz songs, but you may need to go to you tube to view them. Songs are: "Dream of Michelangelo, Mr. Jones, and Mrs. Potters Lullaby... all off the top of my head. There are MANY more. COUNTING Crows is one of my favorite bands behind the Stones and Zeppelin, so if we all like Stones music, by default you could like these too!














Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-04-17 08:12 by BustedButton.

I bet Tim Rice said similar, over-the-top things about the ABBA guys to get them to collaborate on "Chess." In that case, it worked. Stones songs with some "Hakuna Matata" thrown in sounds like a bad mix. Though I'm sure Murray Head would enjoy singing as "Mick" on the pre-stage recorded version.

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marianna
I bet Tim Rice said similar, over-the-top things about the ABBA guys to get them to collaborate on "Chess." In that case, it worked. Stones songs with some "Hakuna Matata" thrown in sounds like a bad mix. Though I'm sure Murray Head would enjoy singing as "Mick" on the pre-stage recorded version.

BOOM!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

That is the entire point of Mr Rice bringing any of this up to start with, and all I can say is.... I hope Mick declines any and all ideas of making any Stones Music into some Broadway musical. That would be a disasterbacle.

Please Mr Mick, dont do this type of thing to our music, please dont.

Who would have thought on the 1792 Tour that our Mick would receive such a rave from Sir Tim?

They've been touring since 1792? Well, that could explain a lot. (Including where those great lyrics for Street Fighting Man came from.)

It is not reasonable to compare Mick to lyricists in other musical genres or time frames. His writing is for rock music, 1960's-2010's.

Personally, I think Mick is a great rock lyricist but not the greatest. Dylan, Cohen, Joni Mitchell, and Jackson Browne are technically more advanced. But Mick's lyrics combined with his performance and Keith's compositions and musicianship make his lyrics more memorable and powerful than any of theirs.

Well as has been pointed out, Tim Rice's motives here are questionable.

Although I think MJ's been a fabulous lyricist I would bet even he's winced at the compliment, as it inevitably draws comparisons.

MJ's 'above the rest' not based on a single talent, voice, musicianship, songwriter, lyricist or even as performer but rather the sum of all the parts.

As much as I love Mick as a lyricist, I also think that in his statement Tim Rice kind of overestimated him.

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Max'sKansasCity

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marianna
I bet Tim Rice said similar, over-the-top things about the ABBA guys to get them to collaborate on "Chess." In that case, it worked. Stones songs with some "Hakuna Matata" thrown in sounds like a bad mix. Though I'm sure Murray Head would enjoy singing as "Mick" on the pre-stage recorded version.

BOOM!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

That is the entire point of Mr Rice bringing any of this up to start with, and all I can say is.... I hope Mick declines any and all ideas of making any Stones Music into some Broadway musical. That would be a disasterbacle.

Please Mr Mick, dont do this type of thing to our music, please dont.

If Mick really is here on iorr, how long d'you think it will be before Max's splendid "disasterbacle" appears in a lyric?

I enjoy Mick's lyrics no end (and Stones lyrics in general - why is Sir Tim talking as if they are 100% Jagger, except to butter up a potential collaborator)? They're clever, honest, witty, wicked, fun... but I don't believe in the World Championship of Lyric-Writing, and if it did exist, Mick wouldn't win it, brilliant though he is.

"I would like to take a brief moment to point out one person who is one of the best modern day lyricists (also, not the best ever); and, I believe that Adam Duritz, from the Counting Crows, is one of the best lyricists from my generation."

I agree. Counting Crows aren't really a part of my generation since I'm 45 but they are my favorite post 1990 band and Duritz is probably the best modern day song writer. Too bad the band doesn't get the attention they deserve.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.

Mick Jagger's lyrics are catchy, they are fun (and sometimes joyful to listen to), but I doubt that he spends too much time on writing them. They develope with the wild and sexy Stones music. The attribute "greatest off all time" is used way too often.

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Munichhilton

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Rockman

Huh?
I feel unsmart

Over to Bill Wyman for his (1978) analysis:

GUITAR PLAYER: "What do you think gives the Stones their characteristic sound?"

WYMAN: "That's something I've tried to analyze with a lot of people. We have a very tight sound for a band that swings, but in amongst that tight sound, it's very ragged as well. Leon Russell and I finally came up with a theory that goes something like this: Every rock `n roll band follows the drummer, right? If the drummer slows down, the band slows down with him or speeds up when he does. That's just the way it works—except for our band. Our band does not follow the drummer; our drummer follows the rhythm guitarist, who is Keith Richards."

GUITAR PLAYER: "And that makes the difference?"

WYMAN: "Yes. Immediately you've got something like a 1/100th of second delay between the guitar and Charlie's lovely drumming. Now, I'm not putting Charlie down in any way for doing this, but onstage you have to follow Keith. You have no way of not following him. You know there's no rigorous 12 bars and then we break and do that bit and then we come in with four more bars and then Mick does his part—it doesn't work like that. The tune is basically worked out, but it changes all the time; it's very loose. So with Charlie following Keith, you have that very minute delay. Add to that the fact that I've always been able to pick up chord structures very quickly, so I tend to anticipate a bit because I kind of know what Keith's going to do. We've been playing together for so long that I know without even thinking about it. That's why I might be standing there looking at the ceiling."

GUITAR PLAYER: "What's the result?"

WYMAN: "When you actually hear that, it seems to just pulse. You know it's tight because we're all making stops and starts and it is in time—but it isn't as well. That's what we think is the reason for our sound, apart from our style. Everyone thinks, `Oh, Rolling Stones' as soon as they hear one of our fast tunes."

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Title5Take1

The Rubicon was a river flowing from the Eastern Apennines into the Adriatic Sea, and it was the boundary between Italy and Gaul. By law, a general couldn't cross the Rubicon, as it was Roman territory, as a military leader. It was where, in 49BC, Julius Caesar crossed, and commenced the Civil War against Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (Pompey The Great).

Caesar, apparently, and according to Plutarch's Life of Pompey, stated "Let the die be cast", and proceeded to cross the Rubicon. The difference between Plutarch's "Let the die be cast", and Suetonius' "The die is cast" is not just active and passive voices in Latin and Greek, but Plutarch stated that Caesar said it in a loud voice, and in "Greek". Suetonius also doesn't suggest what language Caesar said it in.

The Roman epic poet, Lucan, in Book I of his Pharsalia, doesn't mention any gambling, or dice-playing metaphors. As Caesar is about to cross the Rubicon, the personification of Rome appears to him, and the following is stated:

"Caesar has crossed the Alps, his mighty soul Great tumults pondering and the coming shock. Now on the marge of Rubicon, he saw, In face most sorrowful and ghostly guise, His trembling country's image; huge it seemed Through mists of night obscure; and hoary hair Streamed from the lofty front with turrets crowned: Torn were her locks and naked were her arms. Then thus, with broken sighs the Vision spake: "What seek ye, men of Rome? and whither hence Bear ye my standards? If by right ye come, My citizens, stay here; these are the bounds; No further dare." But Caesar's hair was stiff With horror as he gazed, and ghastly dread Restrained his footsteps on the further bank. Then spake he, "Thunderer, who from the rock Tarpeian seest the wall of mighty Rome; Gods of my race who watched o'er Troy of old; Thou Jove of Alba's height, and Vestal fires, And rites of Romulus erst rapt to heaven, And God-like Rome; be friendly to my quest. Not with offence or hostfie arms I come, Thy Caesar, conqueror by land and sea, Thy soldier here and wheresoe'er thou wilt: No other's; his, his only be the guilt Whose acts make me thy foe".

As a consequence of the Civil War, the Roman Republic was irreparably damaged. Pompey the Great was murdered after the Battle of Pharsalus in 48BC, as he had arrived at Egypt and was executed under the orders of Ptolemy XIII. Battles still continued, with Caesar defeating Gnaeus Pompeius Secundus at Thapsus in 46BC, and Pompey's followers at Munda in 45BC.

Most people know what happened the year after Munda, in that Caesar was murdered in 44BC. In 42BC, Brutus committed suicide at the Battle of Philippi, and the rest of the conspirators were defeated. Consequently, Mark Antony, Octavian, and Lepidus formed the first Triumvirate, and proscriptions took place, wherein anyone that upset them was executed: a case in point being Cicero, who composed the Philippics, denouncing Antony. The Philippics also explains how Paul Simon got the title of "A Short Desultory Philippic".

Antony took up with Cleopatra, hence Blinded By Love, and in 31BC, Octavian defeated him at Actium, and the Republic was no more, replaced by the Julio-Claudian dynasty.

Maybe, Mick should have written Streets of Love first, and then Blinded By Love secondly: it would show the correct adherence to ancient Roman history ?

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tomcasagranda

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Title5Take1

The Rubicon was a river

So whats it all got to do with that damnable little cube game that was so popular in the 80's?

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Munichhilton

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tomcasagranda

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Title5Take1

The Rubicon was a river

So whats it all got to do with that damnable little cube game that was so popular in the 80's?

Super Mario?

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Munichhilton

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tomcasagranda

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Title5Take1

The Rubicon was a river

So whats it all got to do with that damnable little cube game that was so popular in the 80's?

That relates to Erno Rubik, an Hungarian mathematician who created the cube, and it can be solved via mathematical algorithms. I wasn't at all interested in it at school, as I was interested in the following:

1. Latin / Classics - Hence my two degrees, one B.A. in Classics, and one M.A in the Classical Tradition.

2. Modern Languages, i.e. French and Italian.

3. Renaissance and Reformation history - not only did I come top out of 25 in my form, I came top of the entire year, and out of 80 kids.

4. Undercover of the Night video - trying to look at the uncensored version on Channel Four.

5. And this was really mean: there was this fat kid at school, who was into Break Dance. He loved Herbie Hancock's Rockit, and attempted to break dance one day. He split his trousers, and slipped on his backside. I really took the mick out of him, yet, years' later, he earns more money than me, and never went through the hallowed environs of university, as an investment banker, while I "Hang Fire" on unemployment benefit. It really goes to show that there's a god above, and possibly it serves me right.