I didn't say he was controlling me... Read carefully, friend!

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mickschix
I bet he STAYS humble....and I agree with promoting the use of condoms world wide! I do not agree with the Catholic Church on MANY things, I just hope they can make changes with Pope Francis at the helm.

Being humble is meaningless if said person is sitting on a throne, if the organisation under his leadership continues to be corrupt, tolerates abuse and spreads homophobia and views and treats women as inferior beings.

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flashhh
I didn't say he was controlling me... Read carefully, friend!

So who does he control ? People who agreed to be controlled by him right ? Are you saying that those people shouldn't be controlled by the pope ? But then YOU would be controlling them and you don't want that do you ?

The term "God" was invented millenia before the supposed revelation of the contemporary Christian God of the Bible. Religious artifacts have been uncovered that date back over 30 thousand years. The Pope would tell you that the devil planted evidence to fool the faithful, that's their official position. The Ten Commandments first command is "You shall have no other gods before me". So when God revealed itself it was aware that Gods were already worshipped. Are we to assume that these worshipers simply guessed about the existence of God? And millenia later the true God revealed itself? That is special pleading.

Don't forget what the Catholic Church did to Copernicus and Galileo (and countless others) when the church held power. They burned women and children that they deemed witches. These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are worse than getting AIDS, which is a huge problem.

The stories told in the Bible are unoriginal, taken from ancient myths. These myths had actual value before religions hijacked their meaning.

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beepee2

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seitan
I hope that people understand that If you want to talk about your religion - I'm fine with that, I can talk about my non-belive in it.. That's what real conversation is. To share ideas and views. If you find my opinions offensive and insulting, then please understand that I really find all religions disgusting and stupid. - If you have a right to be offended then so do I.

I’m not finding that insulting at all, by the way I’m not religious, I’m agnostic. However I’m just expanding your knowledge as it seems you and a few others have a weak understanding of certain concepts. Atheism is a philosophy that has a dogma (something you cannot prove), which is that no God exists (can you prove it ? thanks…), and that the Universe has always been here (which is scientifically proven as being wrong but that’s a different matter).

Furthermore, you seem to discard “fairies” as stupid inventions of human minds, actually most scientists who have thoroughly investigated a part of our universe, whether though maths, pyshics, astrology, biology… end up more religious than they were initially. Maybe you have not practiced enough sciences to have this kind of “wisdom”.

Rubbish. The more scientists investigate the universe- the less they need any religious fairytales. Evolution has been proven to be true.

Think.
There may be fairies at the garden. There may be flying Pink Spaghetti Monsters in the sky, There is no evidence for it, and never has been, but If I can't prove that there aren't any, - what then ? Are you telling me that I must be agnostic with respect to fairies and Pink Spaghetti Monsters ?

- Are you telling me that we must build every society so that we all respect everything that we can ever imagine ? Pink Flying Monkeys, Fairies, Flying Yellow Cows, etc etc..they all should have a important place in our society ?? Is that what youre telling me ?? -
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.


Think.

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Fuman2
These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are worse than getting AIDS, which is a huge problem.

Source ?

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seitan


Think.

Yes, think a bit. May I ask you if you have ever done some science at a high-level ?

Think.

What did Einstein mean when saying "God doesn't play dice" ? (I agree his understanding of the universe may have been way below yours, but still that was an interesting thought).

It's good to see this thread is still open. Having a discussion is nothing to be afraid of.

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beepee2

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seitan


Think.

Yes, think a bit. May I ask you if you have ever done some science at a high-level ?

Think.

What did Einstein mean when saying "God doesn't play dice" ? (I agree his understanding of the universe may have been way below yours, but still that was an interesting thought).

Einstein was agnostic or atheist. Einstein used ‘God’ in a purely metaphoric, poetic sense, because he knew his audience. He had to give his understanding and science to religious society. Back then it wasnt easy to be atheist. So Einstein had to speak the language that people of strong religious faith would listen.

To quote Einstein “I believe God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists; not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings”

What this means is that Einstein had no Christian faith, no God that would have direct influence in the actions of the individuals or that would judge any creatures of any kind.

Einsteins idea of God was everything that was still unknown - but he didnt follow any religion. He wasnt religious. He had strong admiration of this incomprehensible universe that we live in - and that was his poetic use of the word " God" - Yes, sometimes he invoked the name of God (and he is not the only agnostic/atheist scientist to do so in history), inviting misunderstanding. Lot of “religious apologists” try to claim Einstein as one of their own, but that's not the case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-14 18:13 by seitan.

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seitan

Einstein was agnostic or atheist. Einstein used ‘God’ in a purely metaphoric, poetic sense, because he knew his audience.

Exactly. What you called "fairies". So apparently even scientists who have been at the edge of how the world, the nature, the brain, the stars are functionning, still believe in some "concept" which is beyond science, interesting isn't it ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-14 18:17 by beepee2.

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beepee2

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Fuman2
These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are worse than getting AIDS, which is a huge problem.

Source ?

I worded that terribly. Thanks for questioning me, really.
Let me try again.

These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are a sin in God's eyes. Meanwhile, millions of sub-Saharan Africans contract AIDS annually, which is a huge problem.

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Fuman2


I worded that terribly. Thanks for questioning me, really.
Let me try again.

These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are a sin in God's eyes. Meanwhile, millions of sub-Saharan Africans contract AIDS annually, which is a huge problem.

Ok, that's indeed a more honnest quotation...

So the Church tells people not to use condom. Right. But it also tells people to be faithfull right ? So if people followed the Church, they would indeed not use condom, but they would also stick to sex with only one person, so there would be zero AIDS. So if all Africans followed the Church's instruction, there wouldn't be any AIDS, right ? Let me know if my reasonning is wrong...

I have the highest respect for Pope Benedict, even if I critzize some of his decissions. He has truth inside of him, but he was out of this world, and I assume that he wanted to be out of this world.I wish him the best! It is pointless to declare the church as the source of all evil, like many people do. Religion inspired great art and culture through two millenieums. That is what I care more about than the pope's statements about sexuality. I wish Pope Francis strength!

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seitan
Evolution has been proven to be true.

I think it's still a theory actually.

President Obama has said that the book "Life of Pi" by Yann Martel is an elegant proof of God.

Source.

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windmelody
I have the highest respect for Pope Benedict, even if I critzize some of his decissions. He has truth inside of him,

I have the opposition view.

He is a dissembler.

His document released with the third secret of Fatima (whatever you think of it) is a classic remoulding of the truth to hide embarrassment about it.

The man also wrote to all the bishops of the world in 2001 and told them that all investigation details of sex abuse were to be sent to him under Pontifical secret and that local authorities were not to be informed.

Not a nice man.

"I was going back to college for a while, but I never made it. I'm a real dropout. I wanted to do comparative religion and history, but I just couldn't take three months off and go every day. I found myself having to work, and I'm just too lazy. I need three months off from music, but I can never get them." — Mick Jagger, 1976

I wonder how these priests/ popes/nuns handle their libido. They don't do sex, don't masturbate, and are not supposed to lie.

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beepee2

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seitan

Einstein was agnostic or atheist. Einstein used ‘God’ in a purely metaphoric, poetic sense, because he knew his audience.

Exactly. What you called "fairies". So apparently even scientists who have been at the edge of how the world, the nature, the brain, the stars are functionning, still believe in some "concept" which is beyond science, interesting isn't it ??

No. - every "concept" which is beyond science, is investigated and some day it will be understood - there is no such thing that we could never ever in the future learn or understand. - And we already know enough, to understand that there is no reason to believe in any gods. Let's put it this way: There is evidence that evolution is true, and there has never been any evidence of the creator, there has never in history of the universe, never been any evidence of God. none. Zero.

If we wonder why there are still serious people including some scientists who are religious, that’s a complicated psychological question. They certainly won’t believe that God created all species, or something like that. They might believe there is some sort of intelligent spirit that lies behind the universe as a whole and perhaps designed the laws of physics and everything else took off from there.
But there's a huge difference between believing that and believing that this God created all species.
What you cannot really logically do is to say, well I believe that there's some kind of intelligence, some kind of divine physicist who designed the laws of physics, therefore Jesus is my lord and savior who died for my sins. That's nonesense.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-14 19:20 by seitan.

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TippyToe

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seitan
Evolution has been proven to be true.

I think it's still a theory actually.

President Obama has said that the book "Life of Pi" by Yann Martel is an elegant proof of God.

Source.

Obama is being silly.

I am not religious, but I don't believe that religion is intrinsically bad or evil. Any endevor that involves human beings will have good and evil. There have been wars and repression perpetrated in the name of religion, but here in my city it is Christians who run the two homless shelters and my very religious neighbor travels all over the world building schools and orphanages with members of his church.
I don't want something to make me feel good or alleviate a fear of death; I want to know the Truth. Someone in an earlier post said that if you can free your mind of the notion of a celestial dictator you can be free. You can never be truly free because we are all bound by the laws of nature. When I was younger and dumber I dismissed the notion of God out of hand,but the latest cutting edge theories in physics suggest that the attributes of the God of the Bible are not supernatural or magic, but actually possible.

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seitan

No. - every "concept" which is beyond science, is investigated and some day it will be understood -

You don't understand.
The fundamental meaning of religion is not the fairies and Jesus multiplying bread. It is the philosophical and metaphorical message that there is a kind of principle/force in the universe/life.

Science does NOT contradict this. Science can always go further and tell how this and that happen, but that will never tell you why. Science can breakdown matter and discover atoms, then subparticles, and then subsubparticles, and then say "oh wait we have actually discovered than subsubsubparticles are made of subsubsubsub particles", that will never tell you why there IS something.

Scientists may try to describe something (the behavior of electrons at zero degree), that will never tell you why this something is there.

Every facet so perfect
And every cut the proper size
When we find ourselves staring in God's golden eyes
We find ourselves staring in God's golden eyes

Funny how some people always look for physical proof of God. What do you want him to do? Do you want him to come down from the sky and join The Stones up on stage?

How many people in the world believe in God whether they are Christians, Jews or Muslims? A lot of people right? They are all fools?

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.

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beepee2

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Fuman2


I worded that terribly. Thanks for questioning me, really.
Let me try again.

These self-imposed celebates are telling uninformed third world citizens that condoms are a sin in God's eyes. Meanwhile, millions of sub-Saharan Africans contract AIDS annually, which is a huge problem.

Ok, that's indeed a more honnest quotation...

So the Church tells people not to use condom. Right. But it also tells people to be faithfull right ? So if people followed the Church, they would indeed not use condom, but they would also stick to sex with only one person, so there would be zero AIDS. So if all Africans followed the Church's instruction, there wouldn't be any AIDS, right ? Let me know if my reasonning is wrong...

I think their position is don't have sex at all unless you are hoping to have a child. That's why they oppose condoms.

Your comment about being faithful sounds reasonable, but it is unreasonable to expect people to abstain simply because priests say their God doesn't approve. The priests can't even abstain, and their "God" is just a human construct.
Do they offer another reason that it would be in our best interest to abstain? Nope.

God walks among us...be still

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millerman60
I am not religious, but I don't believe that religion is intrinsically bad or evil. Any endevor that involves human beings will have good and evil. There have been wars and repression perpetrated in the name of religion, but here in my city it is Christians who run the two homless shelters and my very religious neighbor travels all over the world building schools and orphanages with members of his church.
I don't want something to make me feel good or alleviate a fear of death; I want to know the Truth. Someone in an earlier post said that if you can free your mind of the notion of a celestial dictator you can be free. You can never be truly free because we are all bound by the laws of nature. When I was younger and dumber I dismissed the notion of God out of hand,but the latest cutting edge theories in physics suggest that the attributes of the God of the Bible are not supernatural or magic, but actually possible.

When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims,- The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, - so if Bible is true and God of the Bible is truly the creator, then howcome the creator of the universe dont even know what he created ?

Its interesting how self proclaimed 'atheists' are some of the most defensive people in the world...they outta at least try and believe what they preach...oops, if I can use that word...

I think most people reading this thread,not necessarily posting here,would take it for what it is.

That being,to say that I have just seen it on the news last night,and wish the Pope and all the worlds Catholics a good life,and hope it all works out for them.
Pope Francis does sound like a nice guy.
I'm not a Catholic but it doesn't stop me from being happy for many millions of people all over the world.
It doesn't affect my life.
What is the big deal about it?
Enjoy life. Life is for living and waiting for The Rolling Stones tour to happen.
That,to me ,is a happy and fullfilling life.
Not wishing my life away,but roll on Monday,when an announcement will be made by The Rolling Stones.
I had a dream last night. An Argentinian guy with a funny hat,sitting on a decorative chair, was telling me something important was gonna happen in my life.
It would also be very important to many others all over the world.It would all come to light on Monday.

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seitan

When it comes to scientific claims, the Bible has the dumbest claims,- The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, - so if Bible is true and God of the Bible is truly the creator, then howcome the creator of the universe dont even know what he created ?

For a start, no one cares about taking the Bible to the word, everyone knows it's metaphorical, and by the way, when we say the earth is a sphere, this is actually wrong, it's not a sphere either...

Even if you wanted to go down that route, the Bible doesn't claim the earth is flat, "corners of the world" is a reference to the concept of "quadrants". The Bible clearly state that the earth is circle:

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It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isn't the pope supposed to be the incumbent on christ, who supposedly sacrificed his life to save mankind from their sins? Only an idiot would do that.