I don't know anything about who sued who but I can remember Plant on Celebration day as he was introducing some of the songs naming other artists.

Maybe they stole bits from older artists but I don't think anyone who ever have heard them until Zepplin put their magic into the music and it sounded wonderful. Now if any of the older artists released the song in the original format who do you think would have heard it and liked it, not many people.

I think Zepplin did those tunes proud.

At least they gave Ian Stewart a credit on Boogie With Stu! His royalty cheques for that were probably just as much as he ever got from the Stones (assuming he got anything for any Nanker Phelge credits)?

ROCKMAN

They did give co- credit here when it came to Boogie With Stu. Not sure what part they wrote, though.





And of course Rock'N'Roll, has some "inspiration" here.






So yeah, Zep nicked a lot, but they did take all that stuff to a whole next level.

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hbwriter

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Aquamarine
You've GOT to be kidding. This is one of the most endlessly discussed and litigated topics in music history , and has been for over forty years. They've said all they're going to say about it. This just leads to endlessly repeated pointless arguments.

what's so pointless about it? the band still has yet to say much about it yet they remain one the lords of the realm. (but i'll be sure to clear all other topics with you beforehand just to make sure they meet your relevance standard)

I didn't mention "relevance" to anything. I just said what is demonstrably true. There was an entire thread on this on this very forum, just recently.

(My other point had to do with, "why wasn't this a bigger story?" It's been a HUGE story, debated for decades. And it's pointless because the same people make the same old arguments on both sides and nobody gets anywhere. This thread is like deja vu all over again!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 22:33 by Aquamarine.

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andrewt
They did give co- credit here when it came to Boogie With Stu. Not sure what part they wrote, though.

And of course Rock'N'Roll, has some "inspiration" here.



So yeah, Zep nicked a lot, but they did take all that stuff to a whole next level.

And Ooh My Head had some "inspiration" here!

As for my vote, it really goes against my grain, it is no big deal to give credit to the original artists who at times were rather obscure, best I can remember they took from an obscure song by Joan Baez, may be "Baby, I'm gonna leave you" and the chords for Stairway to Heaven which I read in another forum someone called the "greatest rock song ever", hey, that opening was nicked, hard to deny that. Takes a sheen off Led Zeppelin.

Some songs Zep is accused of ripping off though, they definitely added on to it like "Bringing it on home", for that, they should cite the original artist but also indicate they added on a lot to it as well, I think they could have somehow done that.

I think Zep actually gave a writing credit to Memphis Minnie for this song on LZ IV, but here's the original version...

It's no big deal to give credit to original artists? You wouldn't feel that way if you were the songwriter or a member of your family wrote a song that was basically ripped off! Cmon I'm a Zeppelin fan but its just wrong.

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IrisC
It's no big deal to give credit to original artists? You wouldn't feel that way if you were the songwriter or a member of your family wrote a song that was basically ripped off! Cmon I'm a Zeppelin fan but its just wrong.

Again, they were not alone in doing such things.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-05 23:57 by His Majesty.

Zeppelin didn't "borrow heavily' from 'Ooh my head', they simply retitled it.

Page's take on this is unbelievable when you read about R Valens' mother suing them.

Even so, God gifted musicians and I love them anyway

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hbwriter
Not the fact that they pinch/steal

Zep never stole a note--they merely sampled, like all these "innovative" hip-hop artists have so notoriously done for so many years.

Bruce Springsteen on how successful theft is accomplished:

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stonehearted

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hbwriter
Not the fact that they pinch/steal

Zep never stole a note--they merely sampled, like all these "innovative" hip-hop artists have so notoriously done for so many years.

yeah, not stealing, sampling... thats the ticket...

Those crappers, they are such geniuses,
and if you dont believe it, just ask em... aint that right kanwe?

It would be interesting to talk to Jimmy Page's Grammar school teachers, assuming they were still alive and remembered him.

Did he plagiarize in school, cheat on tests? Did he ever try writing an exam with a violin bow?

These traits start young in life.

If you want to talk about plagiarism (the correct spelling, by the way), why is it just Led Zeppelin you want to make a case against? It seems awfully one-sided when you go back a bit further and take notice of the fact that for one of his best-known and most widely covered hits, Johnny B. Goode, Chuck Berry copied Louis Jordan's guitarist Carl Hogan note-for-note on the opening note solo. Where is the outrage from the OP?









And what about Johnnie Johnson, with whom Berry co-wrote all his hits? Berry's odd guitar keys are piano keys, because he was copying chord for chord the music created by Johnson. As soon as Berry and Johnson parted ways in the mid-60s the hits for Berry stopped coming--unless you want to count My Ding-A-Ling as a stroke of genius.

Berry stole all the credit--and money--for himself, so that his former collaborator was just a St. Louis area bus driver when Keith Richards found him during the making of the Hail! Hail! Rock and Roll movie.

Again, where is the outrage from the OP?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-12-06 01:27 by stonehearted.

It's only stealing when Led Zeppelin do it.

zeppelins catalog is full of hamburger helper, it makes something that is already there taste better

More specifically they took bits and made them better, added great original lyrics and chord changes, but, but ,but, they outright stole, stole, stole, in a way that they would sue $$$$ over. Hypocrisy.

.

"Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal"

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melillo
zeppelins catalog is full of hamburger helper, it makes something that is already there taste better

True, but way too much sodium.

Not only did Led Zeppelin pinch the song You Need Love in Whole Lotta Love, they, uh, generously borrowed the Small Faces arrangement of You Need Love.

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treaclefingers

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melillo
zeppelins catalog is full of hamburger helper, it makes something that is already there taste better

True, but way too much sodium.

But it's exactly that recipe that lends the music such flavor, such.... presence.

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stonehearted

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treaclefingers

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melillo
zeppelins catalog is full of hamburger helper, it makes something that is already there taste better

True, but way too much sodium.

But it's exactly that recipe that lends the music such flavor, such.... presence.

I like the cut of your jib son...we need that kind of input 'round here.
Let me help you in through the out door.

Now watching an oldies folk stars show from '50s & '60s called Folk Rewind, was too little to know most at the time but am amazed at how many tunes covered more recently by other rock artists & wonder how many really got credit where credit due for their writing!

Unfortunately Black music has been ripped off for decades. While the original composers often received nothing and died in poverty and obscurity. Rock and Roll was invented by Blacks and Rock music had its roots deeply embedded there. A classic example is "time is one side". It recently heard the version by "Irma Thomas". I was stunned. However many artists give credit where credit is due. Often the original music is superior to the remakes or rip offs but you cannot tell, and that is due to antiquated recording from nearly 60 years ago. They did not have the technology we have today.The same for many black blues players from that era. It is wonderful that new generations of young people have been introduced to this music by many English rock bands! Simply do a tiny bit of research and listen to the originals and be blown away just as the all the famous English musicians were when they first heard this incredible music!

Many of the blues players you're talking about "ripped each other off," in the sense that music hasn't always had the same concept of "original authorship uninfluenced by anything else," which is in itself a questionable idea.

(Not disagreeing, btw, just an additional comment.)



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Rolling stones vs this and that...wtf Led Zeppelin is a band that had their highlights but please don't compare them with a band that inhibit Mick Keith Charlie or Ronnie...

2 1 2 0

What's laughable about this whole premise is the unmentioned notion that all of these old blues guys also'stole' their material...it's how the music business works. Sometimes it's concious as in, 'oh let's do a cover of a Willie Dixon classic' other times it's more subliminal where a musician is writing a new song and without being aware he incorporates something he has previously heard. Nothing comes from nothing. Everything is deriviative - especially in music.

Some bands chose to pay their dues and give money, or writing credits, others chose not to...lawyers as usual made shit loads out of it and journalists will continue to churn out poorly researched nonsense in the hope that some mugs will keep them in work.

Let's not get too upset for the poor old blues guys, yes many rock bands stole their riffs, but I can assure you they stole their riffs from the other places be that the slave plantations or other guitarists...it's how it is.

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melillo
zeppelins catalog is full of hamburger helper, it makes something that is already there taste better

Yeah but like Hamburger Helper you can only take so much of it. Led Zeppelin's music is good in small doses, not seven days a week.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.