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Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: March 1, 2014 01:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Rock'n'Roll Circus is good as well, imo. The only time the riff sounded somewhat near the original.

thumbs upthumbs upsmileys with beer





Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 1, 2014 06:50

Quote
His Majesty
I recorded the main basic acoustic on top of a backing track by someone else with vocals. This acoustic guitar, possibly with one other played by Brian on the same cassette recording is all there was as far as acoustics on JJF.



Very good IMO.

I don't know if Brian did anything except for some percussion.

Why not overdub the high parts, supposedly in Nashville tuning which would seem to be used (instead of regular tuning) mainly for the strums just before the main riff starts. maybe.

Seeing that I havn't tried recording a duplicate, I don't know if it's Nashville or Regular.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: GOO ()
Date: March 1, 2014 15:03

Love the instrumental backing track

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: buffalo7478 ()
Date: March 1, 2014 16:18

Was this the first song Jimmy Miller did production on for the Stones?

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: March 1, 2014 16:54

Maybe the greatest rock and roll song of all time.
JJF will make a dead man move his feet, cuz it s a GAS GAS GAS

Tokyo show#1 FEB2014



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-01 16:58 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Powerage ()
Date: March 1, 2014 16:59

I love any version with Keith and Mick Taylor : two real guitars, rough riffs...
Ancient history...

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 2, 2014 01:15

Quote
howled
Quote
His Majesty
I recorded the main basic acoustic on top of a backing track by someone else with vocals. This acoustic guitar, possibly with one other played by Brian on the same cassette recording is all there was as far as acoustics on JJF.



Very good IMO.

I don't know if Brian did anything except for some percussion.

Why not overdub the high parts, supposedly in Nashville tuning which would seem to be used (instead of regular tuning) mainly for the strums just before the main riff starts. maybe.

Seeing that I havn't tried recording a duplicate, I don't know if it's Nashville or Regular.

If there is more than one guitar on the philips cassette recording it would have to have been played by someone else at same time Keith played. So if there is then that'll most likley be Brian.

I don't think nashville tuning is used for any of the parts on the released version.

Maybe they tried it and it didn't make it to the final version, but there's nothing in the parts that screams nshville tuning or requires that tuning to play what is heard.

I've done the other parts, will post those too. smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-02 01:19 by His Majesty.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: gagi ()
Date: March 2, 2014 01:22



-------------------------------

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Single Malt ()
Date: March 2, 2014 02:43

Keith's story about his gardener is about the lyrics, not the riff. two different things.
[/quote]

Could be but I just don't believe what Keith says. Keith is making up the history of the Stones while he's talking. It doesn't matter to him if it's true or not. It's sad that he's messed it so much that you can't really be sure what's true of what he speaks and what's not. That's why I haven't read his autobiography yet. I just don't know what would be true and what would be an exaggerated truth (a.k.a. lie). He's a great guitarist and a great song writer playing in a great rock'n'roll group but he's not a god. Don't put him on the pedestal... BTW, I don't believe in gods. We all make mistakes. Even Keith does...

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 2, 2014 07:00

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
howled
Quote
His Majesty
I recorded the main basic acoustic on top of a backing track by someone else with vocals. This acoustic guitar, possibly with one other played by Brian on the same cassette recording is all there was as far as acoustics on JJF.



Very good IMO.

I don't know if Brian did anything except for some percussion.

Why not overdub the high parts, supposedly in Nashville tuning which would seem to be used (instead of regular tuning) mainly for the strums just before the main riff starts. maybe.

Seeing that I havn't tried recording a duplicate, I don't know if it's Nashville or Regular.

If there is more than one guitar on the philips cassette recording it would have to have been played by someone else at same time Keith played. So if there is then that'll most likley be Brian.

I don't think nashville tuning is used for any of the parts on the released version.

Maybe they tried it and it didn't make it to the final version, but there's nothing in the parts that screams nshville tuning or requires that tuning to play what is heard.

I've done the other parts, will post those too. smiling smiley

But what about recording one guitar on track 1 and then recording another guitar on track 2 and then mixing down.

This mixing down enables a lot of layers like the Beatles used to do on a 4 track [homerecording.com]

I don't know the exact details but this is what I'm speculating,

Keith records the Acoustic into the cassette and then they hook the cassette up to a speaker and play the recorded cassette back and record into the desk on a track from a mic hooked up to the speaker.

Keith does the same thing recording different parts again and again (while the recorded tracks are played back) and they mixdown the tracks.

I don't know exactly what features those old cassette recorders had but maybe it's possible to hook up an external speaker and just hit record and it's coming out of the external speaker in realtime so no cassette playback would be needed in that case.

The Nashville tuning would result in a very high sounding strum across all 6 strings.

A 7th fret B chord would sound like it's got no low end, and I'm not sure if this is how the high part strums (with 6 string Nashville strums) or the strums are just on say the top four strings in regular tuning.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-02 07:17 by howled.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 2, 2014 07:58

The playback of the recording is part of the sound.

In all 3 instances where they used the cassette recorder Keith has said they watched from the control room as the cassette played back what they had recorded on it and that was captured via a mic'd up extension speaker.


...

The part you are focusing on has low strings being played too, open E tuning, the lack of low end is from tonal settings not due to missing low notes.

That B strums with higher B are fretted like so. Pinky on high B, 6 - 4 strings fretted with 2nd and 3rd fingers.

1)--7--
2)--x--
3)--x--
4)--7--
5)--7--
6)--7--

...

The acoustic doesn't bother with any of the higher strings, it's essentially playing power chords through the whole track. As I demonstrated with my clip of the most likley only actual acoust guitar part.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-02 08:03 by His Majesty.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 2, 2014 08:53

The intro has a higher part focusing on the top strings 7th fret.

In your video, you have the lower parts covered.

What I'm saying is that I'm not sure whether the higher part is Nashville or regular because the top 2 strings are the same in either case but Nashville has no bottom end on a 6 string strum and I'm not sure that the strums just before Mick's Wotcha (or Watch It) are not a Nashville tuned guitar.

Maybe I havn't got the parts right but that higher part seems to be another guitar to me that could be Nashville tuned.

The higher part drops off after the intro, but there seems to be another higher lower part (I think based around 1st string open E) mirroring the main verse riff but it's back in the mix and maybe comes and goes a bit.

The high chimey sort of parts (Byrds like IMO) in the chorus are focused on the top 2 strings when I worked them out, so it wouldn't matter if it was Nashville or regular.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-02 09:01 by howled.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 2, 2014 16:40

There's more to the chimey stuff than just that.

Anyway, oops, I did a boobie with the acoustic part, it doesn't go to low E on the intro. grinning smiley

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: March 2, 2014 19:39

This is a top 5 of all time track for them.

Nothing better than the original studio version.

Perhaps the greatest rock song of all time, certainly preferable to Satisfaction which Rolling Stone lists at number 2 behind Like a Rolling Stone.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: March 2, 2014 21:54

Between the arrangement used on the tour, keiths moves, the horn part, the fire on the front of the stage, and the record spinning on the video screen.....the 97-98 version (st louis, san diageo) specifically, are my very favorite versions of the song

.....keep on rolling.....

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 3, 2014 05:56

Quote
His Majesty
The playback of the recording is part of the sound.

In all 3 instances where they used the cassette recorder Keith has said they watched from the control room as the cassette played back what they had recorded on it and that was captured via a mic'd up extension speaker.


...

The part you are focusing on has low strings being played too, open E tuning, the lack of low end is from tonal settings not due to missing low notes.

That B strums with higher B are fretted like so. Pinky on high B, 6 - 4 strings fretted with 2nd and 3rd fingers.

1)--7--
2)--x--
3)--x--
4)--7--
5)--7--
6)--7--

...

The acoustic doesn't bother with any of the higher strings, it's essentially playing power chords through the whole track. As I demonstrated with my clip of the most likley only actual acoust guitar part.

I realize that the The playback of the recording is part of the sound.

I'm just saying that some cassette recorders or tape recorders might have the speaker out functioning as a monitor when recording and I don't know about Keith's one.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 3, 2014 06:00

Quote
His Majesty
There's more to the chimey stuff than just that.

Anyway, oops, I did a boobie with the acoustic part, it doesn't go to low E on the intro. grinning smiley

I worked it out the best that I could do a while ago which I've mostly forgotten, and it was playable just on the top 2 strings and it was more about the phrasing than the notes IMO as it's weaving around Mick's chorus singing.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 3, 2014 06:04

Quote
You Got to Roll Me
Between the arrangement used on the tour, keiths moves, the horn part, the fire on the front of the stage, and the record spinning on the video screen.....the 97-98 version (st louis, san diageo) specifically, are my very favorite versions of the song

I don't think any live version comes near the released single version.

They mostly leave the intro out and also the chimey chorus bits and also the outro isn't right and Mick does strange things to the chorus adding notes or just grunting it out.

There is a lot just going on in the intro and outro and the chimey chorus bits that give the JJF released single it's classic sound.

Loads of touches by Keith in the intro and outro and the chimey chorus bits and he must have spent a fair bit of time arranging the parts and the outro keyboards (Nicky Hopkins?) are a great part as well and so is Charlies interplay with Keith.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-03 06:07 by howled.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: rockdoc8885 ()
Date: March 3, 2014 18:23

Greatest track in rock and roll history. 'Nuff said.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 7, 2014 08:52

Quote
His Majesty
There's more to the chimey stuff than just that.

Anyway, oops, I did a boobie with the acoustic part, it doesn't go to low E on the intro. grinning smiley

I think this dude is in the ballpark for some of the parts.

His intro part might be how the possible Nashville tuned guitar was played.

His chimey chorus parts are similar to what I came up with.

But, with a think like JJF, all the parts would need to be put together and experimented with and possibly changed to arrive somewhere near the original, so if one part doesn't fit right then it needs to be altered to fit in with the blends of the parts according to the original.

It's no use supposing that a part is right, the parts have to be totalled up together to match the original.

That's where it gets blurred, because once parts are mixed together then they are no longer just what they were and decompiling multiple parts exactly can be just about impossible in some cases.




Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: March 7, 2014 09:15

Jimi didn't make a cover on JJF live or in studio right?

2 1 2 0

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: shattered ()
Date: March 7, 2014 09:33

Always liked the way he added extra words and flipped em around. Sounded relaxed. Jumpin Jack in fact it's a gas.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: goingmad ()
Date: March 7, 2014 10:49

My favourite version is from double door club, 1997, but I can't find the video on youtube...

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 7, 2014 12:26

Quote
howled


But, with a think like JJF, all the parts would need to be put together and experimented with and possibly changed to arrive somewhere near the original, so if one part doesn't fit right then it needs to be altered to fit in with the blends of the parts according to the original.

It's no use supposing that a part is right, the parts have to be totalled up together to match the original.

That's where it gets blurred, because once parts are mixed together then they are no longer just what they were and decompiling multiple parts exactly can be just about impossible in some cases.

Nah, it's not quite as complicated as that.

The stereo version and OOPS makes it quite easy to work out which guitar does what.

Eg left speaker (some bleed from centre):
[drive.google.com]

2 guitars, one acoustic the other possibly electric
Both open E

Charlie's snare seems to be part of the cassette recording.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: howled ()
Date: March 7, 2014 13:05

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
howled


But, with a think like JJF, all the parts would need to be put together and experimented with and possibly changed to arrive somewhere near the original, so if one part doesn't fit right then it needs to be altered to fit in with the blends of the parts according to the original.

It's no use supposing that a part is right, the parts have to be totalled up together to match the original.

That's where it gets blurred, because once parts are mixed together then they are no longer just what they were and decompiling multiple parts exactly can be just about impossible in some cases.

Nah, it's not quite as complicated as that.

The stereo version and OOPS makes it quite easy to work out which guitar does what.

Eg left speaker (some bleed from centre):
[drive.google.com]

2 guitars, one acoustic the other possibly electric
Both open E

Charlie's snare seems to be part of the cassette recording.

Are the guitars doubled at all?

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: March 7, 2014 13:06

Quote
goingmad
My favourite version is from double door club, 1997, but I can't find the video on youtube...

The only existing live version with the intro!

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 8, 2014 17:59

Quote
buffalo7478
Was this the first song Jimmy Miller did production on for the Stones?

No. But almost.

680200A February: Redlands, West Wittering, Sussex, England. KR’s home. Producer:
Jimmy Miller. Sound engineer: Eddie Kramer.
- Highway Bound (MJ/KR) -unsure if from this session, a/k/a Highway Child
- Hold On! I'm Comin' (Isaac Hayes/David Porter) -unverified
- Street Fighting Man I (MJ/KR) -instrumental version (under title Primo Grande),
unverified cassette-recording
- Rock Me Baby (William Broonzy/Arthur Crudup) -unverified

680221A 21st February - 14th March: Morden, Surrey, R.G. Jones Studios. Rehearsals for the
upcoming album Beggars Banquet (partly without BJ and BW). Producer: Jimmy
Miller. Sound engineer: Eddie Kramer. Additional musician: STU on piano. Incl.
- Stray Cat Blues (MJ/KR) -instrumental, very embryonic
- rehearsal to the untitled slow instrumental ( )
- untitled slow instrumental ( )
- unknown ( ) -with off-mike vocals, might be Can You See Me (Jimi Hendrix)
- Jumping Jack Flash (MJ/KR) -instrumental
- untitled jam ( ) -instrumental
- short jam ( ) -one guitar and drums only
- Hold On! I'm Comin' (Isaac Hayes/David Porter)
- Rock Me Baby (William Broonzy/Arthur Crudup)
- My Home Is A Prison (James Moore) -with STU on piano, MJ on harmonica
- My Home Is A Prison (James Moore) -rehearsal
- untitled jam ( ) -instrumental (with initial telephone ringing)
- untitled jam ( ) -with some ad lib vocals
- River Deep, Mountain High (Spector/Barry/Greenwich) -guitar only
- some more guitar riffs ( )

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 8, 2014 18:00

I hear two guitars in the intro - the acoustic and then the electric.

Why do people spell Tumbling Dice as Tumblin' Dice when the ONLY Stones song to do that is Jumpin' Jack Flash?

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: marko ()
Date: March 8, 2014 18:34

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
goingmad
My favourite version is from double door club, 1997, but I can't find the video on youtube...

The only existing live version with the intro!


I think they were closer to the original in Philadelphia 1989,on both nights.
I would say thay since final east troy 1989(11.9.1989) its been the well known live version since.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 8, 2014 19:31

They haven't performed it live worth a damn since 1969/70 tours! They changed it into a clunky yet glossed over version. 1972 they started to sound like the 1975-76 Stones the way Mick grunted it. Ever since it's been just tepid.

So yeah, the studio version is clearly supreme and is certainly one of their best songs ever.

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