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Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: October 31, 2019 14:10

Quote
MadMax
?? How could anyone question the fact that he says "Watch it!"??

Probably the fact that some people trust their own ears over a majority opinion. Just a guess.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: grzegorz67 ()
Date: October 31, 2019 15:51

Quote
Nikkei
Quote
WillInUK
I think it's "watcha"

English young person slang for hello.
Back in the day.

Sounds plausible. In the Harry Potter novels there is a character who says "Wotcher" is that the same thing?

It's actually 'What cheer' but pronounced 'Watcher'. I am 100% convinced that's what Mick says at the start of the song. The expression was still widely in use in England into the 1980s and beyond when I arrived here from Scotland as a teenager with my family and went to school.

I hadn't previously heard it (it's not used in Scotland) and didn't know what it meant to start with. It simply means 'Hello'.

There are many differences between English English (the inventors of the language) and the English spoken elsewhere in the World, and that includes the other nations of the British Isles to a small degree.
When large groups of native speakers move elsewhere, taking their native language with them, it usually evolves and diverges a bit.
I'm told this is equally true of the Spanish spoken in most of South America and the Portuguese spoken in Brazil and the original versions of those 2 spoken in Spain and Portugal.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-31 16:15 by grzegorz67.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: The Joker ()
Date: October 31, 2019 16:09

Procol Harum - Kaleidoscope (1967)


[www.youtube.com]


[procolharum.com]
(Four stars out of five) It is strange and somewhat unfair that I have taken 3 years and 640 reviews to finally discuss the first album to lead me from the ephemeral pleasure of pop music to the cradle-to-grave rewards of progressive rock. I suppose there are many reasons for this, some of which could only be extricated by minimally reimbursed visits to the therapist's couch, but I could mention that dysfunctional belief that I have simply moved on, like any wayward teenager, to more sophisticated sounds. None of the reasons could take away from my assertion that A Whiter Shade of Pale was an astonishing début, made even more remarkable by the by-now legendary back story that the whole album was hastily assembled to take advantage of the sure hit status of its opening track. (The reviewer refers to the trans-Atlantic version of the album, which did include the first hit single)
Back in 1974, my older brother was much enamoured of the work of one Robin Trower, a guitarist himself much enamoured of Jimi Hendrix. At one point the full orchestral version of Conquistador graced our local FM channel and he casually mentioned that Trower was the guitarist, which turned out to be false. The next moment a muzak version of A Whiter Shade of Pale was used on the television station's interlude which also featured a crystalline scene of winter in Montreal. The melody is so grand that it even succeeds as elevator music. When I wandered for the first time into the LP section of the local record shop, I emerged with this disk, already repackaged to underscore that it included the 'original' version of Conquistador. It turned out that poor Robin missed out on both of the group's world wide hits, as he only took over from Rob [sic] Royer for the shotgun recording of the remaining nine tracks.

While this rendition of Conquistador seems shrivelled when compared to the 1972 hit, it came first, and is still a faithful ode to these bold men of the past. Matthew Fisher's organ solo, albeit brief, actually covers more ground than the later one by Chris Copping. From there it's unknown territory for the neophyte, and what we discover is a rich organ and piano based sound with hints of R&B and classical music, and lyrics that range from narrative with commentary to absurdity. The tempo is slow more often than not, but punctuated with ditties often enough to sidestep sameness.

At the time I remember likening them to The Band, without realising that they burst on to the scene a year earlier. Particularly in songs like the bittersweet Salad Days and even Good Captain Clack, they conjured up the conflicts and the levity of The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down and Rag Mama Rag. If nothing else, Gary Brooker sounded like Levon Helm. Then of course there is the cheesy glitter rock of Kaleidoscope which I only mention because a group called the Rolling Stones seems to have been rather inspired by it in a 1968 song called Jumping Jack Flash.

Other songs which remain high in my esteem are the off-kilter organ orgy of She Wandered through the Garden Fence, the silly Mabel, and the majestic finale Repent Walpurgis, which musters the most in terms of overall band performance. Even Christmas Camel, stretched out a bit beyond its worth, is noteworthy for its narrative style that would remain a staple of early Procol Harum through good times and bad.

If you don't want to start your exploration of Procol Harum with one of the many compilations available, I recommend their début, as subsequent works pale.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: October 31, 2019 16:23

Quote
Nikkei
It stands to argue if Mick really did say "watch it" as opposed to "what shit" in the beginning of this track. Waht's your take?

Come on, are you kidding? (Maybe you are, I often fall for these things).
Maybe he says "what sit?" or "watch hit" or "Wa? T's a hit!" or ...

But no, obviously he says "watch it".

What I am wondering about though, is why they never tried that cool opening of the studio version live. I think I read some place that they tried once but it failed, but how can it fail? It's not really complicated to play that right, I'd think.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: grzegorz67 ()
Date: October 31, 2019 16:37

Quote
matxil
Quote
Nikkei
It stands to argue if Mick really did say "watch it" as opposed to "what shit" in the beginning of this track. Waht's your take?

Come on, are you kidding? (Maybe you are, I often fall for these things).
Maybe he says "what sit?" or "watch hit" or "Wa? T's a hit!" or ...

But no, obviously he says "watch it".

What I am wondering about though, is why they never tried that cool opening of the studio version live. I think I read some place that they tried once but it failed, but how can it fail? It's not really complicated to play that right, I'd think.

No chance. It's 'What cheer'. You have to be a native speaker of UK English to understand that. If you are not, you don't.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: October 31, 2019 16:40

Quote
matxil
Quote
Nikkei
It stands to argue if Mick really did say "watch it" as opposed to "what shit" in the beginning of this track. Waht's your take?

Come on, are you kidding? (Maybe you are, I often fall for these things).
Maybe he says "what sit?" or "watch hit" or "Wa? T's a hit!" or ...

But no, obviously he says "watch it".

What I am wondering about though, is why they never tried that cool opening of the studio version live. I think I read some place that they tried once but it failed, but how can it fail? It's not really complicated to play that right, I'd think.

They tried it in 1989. Didn't sound very good, though.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: filstan ()
Date: October 31, 2019 17:15

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
MadMax
?? How could anyone question the fact that he says "Watch it!"??

Probably the fact that some people trust their own ears over a majority opinion. Just a guess.

Well, this is a good one. I always took the opening words to be "one two". Clearly in the excellent video though it's "Watch it". Playing the official single release I hear "1-2", but hell it could be "watch it" as well. Our brains tend to lock something in, and in this case I have been locked in with "1-2" since that song first hit AM radio and it's stuck that way since I was 15.

On another note, can someone clarify the last word/words on Mothers Little Helper?
It's either hey, good day, or goody? Probably wrong on all three....

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: October 31, 2019 17:22

Quote
filstan
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
MadMax
?? How could anyone question the fact that he says "Watch it!"??

Probably the fact that some people trust their own ears over a majority opinion. Just a guess.

Well, this is a good one. I always took the opening words to be "one two". Clearly in the excellent video though it's "Watch it". Playing the official single release I hear "1-2", but hell it could be "watch it" as well. Our brains tend to lock something in, and in this case I have been locked in with "1-2" since that song first hit AM radio and it's stuck that way since I was 15.

On another note, can someone clarify the last word/words on Mothers Little Helper?
It's either hey, good day, or goody? Probably wrong on all three....

I hear, "Through your busy dying day."

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: October 31, 2019 17:48

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
matxil
Quote
Nikkei
It stands to argue if Mick really did say "watch it" as opposed to "what shit" in the beginning of this track. Waht's your take?

Come on, are you kidding? (Maybe you are, I often fall for these things).
Maybe he says "what sit?" or "watch hit" or "Wa? T's a hit!" or ...

But no, obviously he says "watch it".

What I am wondering about though, is why they never tried that cool opening of the studio version live. I think I read some place that they tried once but it failed, but how can it fail? It's not really complicated to play that right, I'd think.

They tried it in 1989. Didn't sound very good, though.

Yes, but why? Do you have a soundclip of that? Isn't it just a few times repeating "guitar-roll" in B (Which he does a number of times during the song as well) and then an E (or B4) and a D (A4?), with the bass pushing the rhythm up?

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: filstan ()
Date: October 31, 2019 17:51

Quote
MileHigh
Quote
filstan
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
MadMax
?? How could anyone question the fact that he says "Watch it!"??

Probably the fact that some people trust their own ears over a majority opinion. Just a guess.

Well, this is a good one. I always took the opening words to be "one two". Clearly in the excellent video though it's "Watch it". Playing the official single release I hear "1-2", but hell it could be "watch it" as well. Our brains tend to lock something in, and in this case I have been locked in with "1-2" since that song first hit AM radio and it's stuck that way since I was 15.

On another note, can someone clarify the last word/words on Mothers Little Helper?
It's either hey, good day, or goody? Probably wrong on all three....

I hear, "Through your busy dying day."

It's after that at around the 2:40 mark.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: October 31, 2019 18:24

"Your busy dying day" is followed by "hey" I'd swear.

Mind you, I hear "One-two" on the 1968 single of JJF.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: October 31, 2019 19:07

Quote
matxil
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
matxil
Quote
Nikkei
It stands to argue if Mick really did say "watch it" as opposed to "what shit" in the beginning of this track. Waht's your take?

Come on, are you kidding? (Maybe you are, I often fall for these things).
Maybe he says "what sit?" or "watch hit" or "Wa? T's a hit!" or ...

But no, obviously he says "watch it".

What I am wondering about though, is why they never tried that cool opening of the studio version live. I think I read some place that they tried once but it failed, but how can it fail? It's not really complicated to play that right, I'd think.

They tried it in 1989. Didn't sound very good, though.

Yes, but why? Do you have a soundclip of that? Isn't it just a few times repeating "guitar-roll" in B (Which he does a number of times during the song as well) and then an E (or B4) and a D (A4?), with the bass pushing the rhythm up?

On the studio version they play B/E/A in standard tuning and open E or D. It sounds different in open G, as Keith has to do the E high up on the neck (well, he can do it differently, but I'm not sure if he ever considered doing that). And voila the darkness of the original version is gone.

Here's one attempt. They tried it a few times more. He plays it right just once here smiling smiley

[youtu.be]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-31 19:09 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: November 9, 2019 17:47

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-09 17:48 by drewmaster.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: November 9, 2019 17:56

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Here's one attempt. They tried it a few times more. He plays it right just once here smiling smiley

[youtu.be]

Even here Mick doesn't sing "I was born" like he does on the studio version (he goes up several notes on "born"). Are there any live versions where he sings "I was born" just like on the record?

Drew

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: November 9, 2019 17:57

As much as I love the perfection of the studio version of JJF, I think they've made the right call truncating the intro and just blasting off with the main guitar riff.

The original is a true product of the studio, and can't really be compared to all the live versions (some better, some worse) that have come after.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: November 9, 2019 17:59

Quote
drewmaster
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Here's one attempt. They tried it a few times more. He plays it right just once here smiling smiley

[youtu.be]

Even here Mick doesn't sing "I was born" like he does on the studio version (he goes up several notes on "born"). Are there any live versions where he sings "I was born" just like on the record?

Drew

Rock'n'Roll Circus.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: November 9, 2019 17:59

Quote
drewmaster
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Here's one attempt. They tried it a few times more. He plays it right just once here smiling smiley

[youtu.be]

Even here Mick doesn't sing "I was born" like he does on the studio version (he goes up several notes on "born"). Are there any live versions where he sings "I was born" just like on the record?

Drew
Maybe the Rock'n'Roll Circus.

Mick replaced the languid vocal delivery of the original with a more energetic and propulsive vocal for live performances.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: November 9, 2019 18:04

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
drewmaster
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Here's one attempt. They tried it a few times more. He plays it right just once here smiling smiley

[youtu.be]

Even here Mick doesn't sing "I was born" like he does on the studio version (he goes up several notes on "born"). Are there any live versions where he sings "I was born" just like on the record?

Drew
Maybe the Rock'n'Roll Circus.

Mick replaced the languid vocal delivery of the original with a more energetic and propulsive vocal for live performances.

Ah yes R&R Circus. But the languid vocal delivery to me is a huge part of the song's menace. Doing it differently is disrespectful to the track; almost sacrilegious, IMO.

Even on the R&R Circus version he doesn't quite nail it, nor does he seem to want to.

Arguably the greatest rock and roll track ever, yet part of its genius is spoiled by the decision to alter how it begins.

Anyone picking up what I'm putting down here?

Drew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-09 18:45 by drewmaster.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: JordyLicks96 ()
Date: November 9, 2019 19:07

I've always wondered what the first ever performance of JJF sounded like at the NME Poll Winners Concert in 1968. It was their first performance in over a year too.


Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 06:56

On the topic of whether Mick says "one-two!" or "watch it", not that it means much, but the ABKCO lyric video has the words "watch it"

[www.youtube.com]

(I used to think it's "one-two")

But it's neither.

Instead, as grzegorz points out above, it's "wotcher".

Also, see here:

[english.stackexchange.com]

Quote
The very first word of the Rolling Stones' "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and

I distinctly remember when the Brit soap opera "Eastenders" was introduced in the US, the host of the show explained what the term meant, because it was used in the show's dialog and American audiences needed to be educated about it. As an aside, British readers might be amused to know that PBS, which aired the series in America, was torn about whether to run the show with subtitles, as the East End accents (and some words like Nick Cotton's use of "blancmange") were difficult for Americans to process.




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 13:56 by Topi.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 07:34

In the December, 1991 issue of Spin magazine, I found this:

[books.google.fi]


Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: June 9, 2021 12:45

Quote
Topi
On the topic of whether Mick says "one-two!" or "watch it", not that it means much, but the ABKCO lyric video has the words "watch it"

[www.youtube.com]

(I used to think it's "one-two")

Also, see here:

[english.stackexchange.com]

'One, two' makes far more sense. What does 'watch it', mean? 'Watch' what?? confused smiley

Never have I read anywhere that it's 'watch it' Still, you learn something new everyday, I suppose!

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 13:18

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Topi
On the topic of whether Mick says "one-two!" or "watch it", not that it means much, but the ABKCO lyric video has the words "watch it"

[www.youtube.com]

(I used to think it's "one-two")

Also, see here:

[english.stackexchange.com]

'One, two' makes far more sense. What does 'watch it', mean? 'Watch' what?? confused smiley

Never have I read anywhere that it's 'watch it' Still, you learn something new everyday, I suppose!

Yeah. I also thought it would be "one-two" as in to count the riff in. But apparently it's a greeting, after all. Wotcher, everybody! grinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 13:19 by Topi.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: June 9, 2021 13:36

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Topi
On the topic of whether Mick says "one-two!" or "watch it", not that it means much, but the ABKCO lyric video has the words "watch it"

[www.youtube.com]

(I used to think it's "one-two")

Also, see here:

[english.stackexchange.com]

'One, two' makes far more sense. What does 'watch it', mean? 'Watch' what?? confused smiley

Never have I read anywhere that it's 'watch it' Still, you learn something new everyday, I suppose!

It's funny, I always had that discussion with a buddy. He always heard 'one two', I always heard 'watch it'. None of us ever looked at the lyrics before. We looked it up one day and saw that the lyrics said 'watch it'.

There are some other versions of the several promo videos like this version for example [www.youtube.com] (especially at 1:58 I think it is more clear that it's "watch it")

To look for the sense of adlibs like that is... well, it makes no sense to me. Makes 'don't do that?' in Rambler sense? Don't do what?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 13:38 by StonedRambler.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 13:50

And after all these years, everybody, including the lyrics transcripters, was wrong! grinning smiley

It's just the way he pronounces the word. I agree it sounds a lot like "watch it".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 13:51 by Topi.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: June 9, 2021 14:02

It's funny to hear native english speakers discusing about "watch it".

Then you may realise how difficult some songs are for non native speakers.


After all this years I am not able to accept they sing a lot sentences which allegedly are sung. For instance in Brown Sugar "You should have heard him just around midnight" and many more...
Some sentences are sung (to my ears) as if their mouths where full of cookies as they sing...

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Date: June 9, 2021 14:08

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Topi
On the topic of whether Mick says "one-two!" or "watch it", not that it means much, but the ABKCO lyric video has the words "watch it"

[www.youtube.com]

(I used to think it's "one-two")

Also, see here:

[english.stackexchange.com]

'One, two' makes far more sense. What does 'watch it', mean? 'Watch' what?? confused smiley

Never have I read anywhere that it's 'watch it' Still, you learn something new everyday, I suppose!

As in "watch it, here it comes" (the killer riff). That's how I've heard it all these years anyway smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 14:09 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 14:15

Emotionalbarbecue, let me point out that I'm definitely not a native English speaker.

Therefore, I had no idea a word like "wotcher" even existed (I'm not into Harry Potter! winking smiley ) It was only after reading this thread and grzegorz67's post above in this page.

Anyways, this all started when a French artist by the name of Margot Cotten published her one-woman-band version of JJF. It clearly sounds like she goes watch out in the beginning of the song.


[www.youtube.com]

So then I posted Margot's cover on the Shidoobee Facebook group, with something like a foreword of: "it's not really watch out, but one-two", and a discussion ensued.

I then started googling around more, found this thread and also those web links I posted above.

NOW it's hard to hear any "one-two's" in there anymore!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 14:17 by Topi.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: June 9, 2021 14:19

Quote
emotionalbarbecue

After all this years I am not able to accept they sing a lot sentences which allegedly are sung. For instance in Brown Sugar "You should have heard him just around midnight" and many more...
Some sentences are sung (to my ears) as if their mouths where full of cookies as they sing...

Just out of curiosity, what do you hear during those lines on Brown Sugar?

On the second verse, it's exactly that, albeit with the "should have" abbreviated to "shoulda":

"House boy knows that he's doing alright /
You shoulda heard him just around midnight"

On the third verse, however, the "him" changes to "me". The narrator is talking about himself: "I'm no schoolboy..."



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-09 14:27 by Topi.

Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: June 9, 2021 15:03

Good point here! Does anybody hear 'It's just that demon life has got you in its sway' in Sway?
I always here 'FORGOT you' and no matter how much I try, I just can't hear 'HAS GOT you'

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