Tell Me :
Talk
there's also an old-fashioned toy called a jumping jack: [en.wikipedia.org]
and of course it's also the US name for the exercise known as a star jump in the UK: [en.wikipedia.org]
in other words there were plenty of associations that could lead to someone called Jack being nicknamed "Jumping Jack"
Keith's story about his gardener is about the lyrics, not the riff. two different things.
and where have you seen anyone involved say that when Bill was playing Satisfaction backwards
when he came up with what he perceives as his contribution to the JJF riff??
id love to see/hear a Stone say that, because it's been a semi-serious theory of mine for many years.
and whenever i post about it, someone always says severely: "the JJF riff is not Satisfaction backwards!"
i am cognizant that it isn't - but we have no idea what "Bill's riff" sounded like.
maybe he was playing Satisfaction backwards, and Keith turned it into the JJF riff.
Jimmy Miller never produced the Buffalo Springfield.
Yes quite right.
I got the name wrong and details wrong.
Anyway it's only a loose sort of link between the Stones and Buffalo Springfield.
I meant Jack Nitzsche instead of Jimmy Miller.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 09:36 by howled.
Olympic went 8 track somewhere between mid-to late 1969 and January 1970.
JJF was certainly a 4-track recording (bounced between 2 4-tracks probably).
I've heard that Advision was the first to have an 8 track in the UK.
Here's a nice web page about old UK studios.
[www.philsbook.com]
He was working on a compilation album?
Yeah.. sort of.
I got that wrong too.
I'm not taking it very seriously except for that Jack Nitzsche knew the Stones and had some part in the album "Mr Soul" is from, so there might be a loose sort of link, maybe, anyway the Stones could have heard "Mr Soul" with no link to anyone.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 11:27 by howled.
This riff sure is a close cousin to JJF.
Mathijs
i thought it was Martha & the Vandellas' Dancing in the Street that he considered the Satisfaction riff too close to.
not that it matters much ... have some popcorn
well, that's a weight off my mind, certainly, after all these years!
isn't it stupid when mistakes take on a life of their own like that -
getting regurgitated all over the place and attempting to correct the historical record is well-nigh hopeless
it's like the wrong notion that Keith dreamed the Satisfaction riff in Clearwater FL
(Clearwater is where the Glimmers finished writing Satisfaction,
but it was in the UK that Keith taped the riff in his sleep)
but anyway! back to our regularly scheduled JJF :E
The tree limb your are on is very strong and petrified .
No worries of falling.
You might as well want to build a nest.
made in the shade
High Five.
yeah we need high five smiley face.... but drinks will do
Just an fyi this twitter [twitter.com] account. It may, or may not, really be Bill Wyman. I am not passing judgement on anyone here, I am simply passing on information about "verifed accounts" [support.twitter.com] on twitter.... and this account is NOT verified (does not have the verified badge)... of course it could be Bill, but I would not make a large wager on it.
Amen to that. Give me acoustic stones, force Mick to sing Bakersfield style melodies with Keith's old man harmony mixed at equal volume, I'm in heaven. Thanks Gram P for all that. peace.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
J.J.Flash
()
Date: December 6, 2011 06:32
What can someone named J.J. Flash say about this song? lol! My fav of course. makes me wanna jump around and bust the buttons on my trousers.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: December 6, 2011 08:40
there's also an old-fashioned toy called a jumping jack: [en.wikipedia.org]
and of course it's also the US name for the exercise known as a star jump in the UK: [en.wikipedia.org]
in other words there were plenty of associations that could lead to someone called Jack being nicknamed "Jumping Jack"
Quote
Redhotcarpet
And yes, Bill wrote the riff, I don't believe that gardener story for a second.
Keith's story about his gardener is about the lyrics, not the riff. two different things.
and where have you seen anyone involved say that when Bill was playing Satisfaction backwards
when he came up with what he perceives as his contribution to the JJF riff??
id love to see/hear a Stone say that, because it's been a semi-serious theory of mine for many years.
and whenever i post about it, someone always says severely: "the JJF riff is not Satisfaction backwards!"
i am cognizant that it isn't - but we have no idea what "Bill's riff" sounded like.
maybe he was playing Satisfaction backwards, and Keith turned it into the JJF riff.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 09:23
The gardener wrote the riff 
I think that there might be a possibility that the Buffalo Springfield Mr Soul riff led one of the Stones to experiment with that sort of riff (turning a Satisfaction like based riff around a bit and varying it) because that's basically what Buffalo Springfield did in 1967 with a different result of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 09:25 by howled.
I think that there might be a possibility that the Buffalo Springfield Mr Soul riff led one of the Stones to experiment with that sort of riff (turning a Satisfaction like based riff around a bit and varying it) because that's basically what Buffalo Springfield did in 1967 with a different result of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 09:25 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: December 6, 2011 09:25
Quote
howled
Maybe some possible things that might have influenced Jumpin Jack Flash
The Stones producer Jimmy Miller produced Buffalo Springfield and I think the Stones would have heard Mr Soul in 1967.
Mr Soul has a Satisfaction/Jumpin Jack Flash combo sort of riff and a similar temp to Jumpin Jack Flash.
Sometimes Keith plays the JJF riff in a more Mr Soul way like in the Rock and Roll Circus.
I suppose if Buffalo Springfield could take some things from Satisfaction then it's ok if the Stones were to take some things from Buffalo Springfield for a bit of inspiration.
The lyrics of Mr Soul contain
I was down on a frown when the messenger brought me a letter
I was raised by the praise of a fan who said I upset her
[thrasherswheat.org]
The old nursery rhyme has a jumping jack
[en.wikipedia.org]
Keith's gardener's nickname "Jumping Jack" could have come from the nursery rhyme.
Maybe the gardener wasn't very nimble, hence the joke nickname.
Jimmy Miller never produced the Buffalo Springfield.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 09:30
Quote
Jimmy Miller never produced the Buffalo Springfield.
Yes quite right.
I got the name wrong and details wrong.
Anyway it's only a loose sort of link between the Stones and Buffalo Springfield.
I meant Jack Nitzsche instead of Jimmy Miller.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 09:36 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
tomk
()
Date: December 6, 2011 09:31
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Title5Take1
Mick in ACCORDING TO THE ROLLING STONES (p.116): "I remember the recording session for `Jumpin' Jack Flash', and not liking the way it was done very much. It was a bit haphazard—and although the end result was pretty good, it was not quite what I wanted. The fidelity wasn't that great; it wasn't quite as in your face as it could have been."
I love it, but I do wonder what it would have been like with straight electric guitars, rather than overloaded acoustic guitars.
The majority of the guitars are electric.
There's contradictory info regarding whether Olympic Studios was 4 or 8 track by this time. If it were still 4 track, then perhaps the whole recording process, plus bouncing down degraded things a bit too far for Micks liking.
Olympic went 8 track somewhere between mid-to late 1969 and January 1970.
JJF was certainly a 4-track recording (bounced between 2 4-tracks probably).
I've heard that Advision was the first to have an 8 track in the UK.
Here's a nice web page about old UK studios.
[www.philsbook.com]
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 09:54
Jack Nitzsche apparently helped produce "Mr Soul" in early 1967 and he was also working with the Stones Flowers after this in mid 1967.
So it looks pretty likely that the Stones heard "Mr Soul" in 1967.
And Jack Nitzsche's name is Jack for what it's worth.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 10:00 by howled.
So it looks pretty likely that the Stones heard "Mr Soul" in 1967.
And Jack Nitzsche's name is Jack for what it's worth.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 10:00 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 6, 2011 10:45
Quote
howled
Jack Nitzsche apparently helped produce "Mr Soul" in early 1967 and he was also working with the Stones Flowers after this in mid 1967.
So it looks pretty likely that the Stones heard "Mr Soul" in 1967.
And Jack Nitzsche's name is Jack for what it's worth.
He was working on a compilation album?
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: December 6, 2011 10:55
On twitter Bill stated that his inspiration for the Jumpin' Jack Flash riff was Chuck Berry's
single 'Club Nitty Gritty'.
Source: twitter
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
single 'Club Nitty Gritty'.
Source: twitter
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: December 6, 2011 11:08
Yeah.. sort of.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 11:10
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
howled
Jack Nitzsche apparently helped produce the album "Mr Soul" is on in early 1967 and he was also working with the Stones Flowers after this in mid 1967.
So it looks pretty likely that the Stones heard "Mr Soul" in 1967.
And Jack Nitzsche's name is Jack for what it's worth.
He was working on a compilation album?
I got that wrong too.
I'm not taking it very seriously except for that Jack Nitzsche knew the Stones and had some part in the album "Mr Soul" is from, so there might be a loose sort of link, maybe, anyway the Stones could have heard "Mr Soul" with no link to anyone.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 11:27 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: December 6, 2011 11:53
Quote
GravityBoy
Yeah.. sort of.
This riff sure is a close cousin to JJF.
Mathijs
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 11:56
Keith seems to have got the Satisfaction riff from the horn riff of Nowhere to Run by Martha and the Vandellas.
The Satisfaction riff was supposed to be a horn riff.
I think Keith was not really confident about releasing Satisfaction as a single for this reason.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 12:02 by howled.
The Satisfaction riff was supposed to be a horn riff.
I think Keith was not really confident about releasing Satisfaction as a single for this reason.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 12:02 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: December 6, 2011 13:07
Quote
howled
Keith seems to have got the Satisfaction riff from the horn riff of Nowhere to Run by Martha and the Vandellas.
i thought it was Martha & the Vandellas' Dancing in the Street that he considered the Satisfaction riff too close to.
not that it matters much ... have some popcorn
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 14:31
No it's not Dancing In The Streets.
There is no Satisfaction riff in Dancing In The Streets but it's done by the same Martha and the Vandellas and so the mix up occurs and then Mick covered Dancing In The Streets giving the mix up a boost.
It's Nowhere to Run that has the Satisfaction riff played by the horns.
The horn riff is very close to the Satisfaction riff and both riffs are played over the same sort of chords with the same sort of timing.
Basically, Satisfaction is a major chord that then goes to another major chord 2 frets down (or a whole step down) while at the same time the riff notes ascend from the 5th of the first chord up to the the root of the second chord.
Nowhere to Run goes from a major chord to a minor chord but the minor chord is a related substitute to the Satisfaction major chord (that is 2 frets down) and the riff notes ascend from the 5th of the first chord up to the minor third of the second chord which is also the same note as used in the Satisfaction riff but it's just played over a related chord.
Nowhere to Run basically goes from a E chord to a Bm7 chord and Satisfaction basically goes from a E chord to a D chord and the D chord contains just about the same notes as the Bm7 chord, so the Nowhere To Run riff chords and the Satisfaction riff chords are basically the same thing with just a minor difference and so are the Nowhere to Run and Satisfaction riffs.
Satisfaction Riff Notes and Chord Changes in brackets
Riff Notes (E chord) B B B (implied passing A chord) C# (D chord) D D D (passing A chord) C# etc
The B riff note is the 5th of the E chord and the D riff note is the root of the D chord.
The C# riff note implies a passing A chord and the C# riff note is the 3rd of the A chord.
The riff and chords and timing are for all purposes the same in Satisfaction and Nowhere to Run.
The Satisfaction riff fits like a glove into Nowhere to Run and if anyone wants to play the Satisfaction riff over the top of Nowhere to Run they will find that out.
The riffs of Satisfaction and Nowhere to Run themselves, are very similar with both ascending from the 5th and there are only a few minor differences between them.
The fuzz guitar has a more aggressive tone than the horns and this makes it sound a bit different but it's really nearly the same notes and timing.
Keith does a accented Da Da (same as the first notes of the JJF riff) on the first B notes of the Satisfaction riff whereas the horns on Nowhere To Run are doing just a Da for their riffs equivalent notes (different key) but this is a minor difference.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-07 06:53 by howled.
There is no Satisfaction riff in Dancing In The Streets but it's done by the same Martha and the Vandellas and so the mix up occurs and then Mick covered Dancing In The Streets giving the mix up a boost.
It's Nowhere to Run that has the Satisfaction riff played by the horns.
The horn riff is very close to the Satisfaction riff and both riffs are played over the same sort of chords with the same sort of timing.
Basically, Satisfaction is a major chord that then goes to another major chord 2 frets down (or a whole step down) while at the same time the riff notes ascend from the 5th of the first chord up to the the root of the second chord.
Nowhere to Run goes from a major chord to a minor chord but the minor chord is a related substitute to the Satisfaction major chord (that is 2 frets down) and the riff notes ascend from the 5th of the first chord up to the minor third of the second chord which is also the same note as used in the Satisfaction riff but it's just played over a related chord.
Nowhere to Run basically goes from a E chord to a Bm7 chord and Satisfaction basically goes from a E chord to a D chord and the D chord contains just about the same notes as the Bm7 chord, so the Nowhere To Run riff chords and the Satisfaction riff chords are basically the same thing with just a minor difference and so are the Nowhere to Run and Satisfaction riffs.
Satisfaction Riff Notes and Chord Changes in brackets
Riff Notes (E chord) B B B (implied passing A chord) C# (D chord) D D D (passing A chord) C# etc
The B riff note is the 5th of the E chord and the D riff note is the root of the D chord.
The C# riff note implies a passing A chord and the C# riff note is the 3rd of the A chord.
The riff and chords and timing are for all purposes the same in Satisfaction and Nowhere to Run.
The Satisfaction riff fits like a glove into Nowhere to Run and if anyone wants to play the Satisfaction riff over the top of Nowhere to Run they will find that out.
The riffs of Satisfaction and Nowhere to Run themselves, are very similar with both ascending from the 5th and there are only a few minor differences between them.
The fuzz guitar has a more aggressive tone than the horns and this makes it sound a bit different but it's really nearly the same notes and timing.
Keith does a accented Da Da (same as the first notes of the JJF riff) on the first B notes of the Satisfaction riff whereas the horns on Nowhere To Run are doing just a Da for their riffs equivalent notes (different key) but this is a minor difference.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-07 06:53 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: December 6, 2011 15:17
Quote
howled
No it's not Dancing In The Streets.
well, that's a weight off my mind, certainly, after all these years!
isn't it stupid when mistakes take on a life of their own like that -
getting regurgitated all over the place and attempting to correct the historical record is well-nigh hopeless
it's like the wrong notion that Keith dreamed the Satisfaction riff in Clearwater FL
(Clearwater is where the Glimmers finished writing Satisfaction,
but it was in the UK that Keith taped the riff in his sleep)
but anyway! back to our regularly scheduled JJF :E
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: December 6, 2011 15:30
Yeah, well Keith might have dreamed it but he dreamed the "Nowhere To Run" riff.
It doesn't really matter as the riff led to a different song anyway.
It's easy to think a riff or melody is maybe something new when someone has really heard it before.
Look at Mick and K D Lang.
I havn't heard it but Keith said it was a direct lift but Mick was not aware of it.
At least Keith admits to the Last Time lift.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 15:34 by howled.
It doesn't really matter as the riff led to a different song anyway.
It's easy to think a riff or melody is maybe something new when someone has really heard it before.
Look at Mick and K D Lang.
I havn't heard it but Keith said it was a direct lift but Mick was not aware of it.
At least Keith admits to the Last Time lift.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-06 15:34 by howled.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 6, 2011 15:57
Thankks howled for the "Nowhere to Run" info! Like with sssoul I have 'always' being awere of the "Dancing in The Street" reference, and no matter how much I have listened the song, I have never heard the riff there! Clearly, someone has once somwhere confused two Martha and The Vandellas songs!
There is the Zeppelin plagiarism thread where the great rock riffs are discussed, starting from "Smoke on the Water".. it starts to sound like all of them were invented by some black horn player cutting r&b/soul number...
(Has Keith the riffmaster invented any classical Stones riff? Brian did "The last Time", Keith then dreamed "Nowhere to Run", which then Bill reformed to "Jumpin' Jack Flash". Ry Cooder did "Honky Tonk Women", and Jagger "Brown Sugar"...
Okay; my question is rheorical, and should not be taken seriously; the term "inventing" in rock and roll is vague one... Keith's antenna disn't care much about the sources of the ideas but his genious was transforming them to masterpieces)
- Doxa
There is the Zeppelin plagiarism thread where the great rock riffs are discussed, starting from "Smoke on the Water".. it starts to sound like all of them were invented by some black horn player cutting r&b/soul number...
(Has Keith the riffmaster invented any classical Stones riff? Brian did "The last Time", Keith then dreamed "Nowhere to Run", which then Bill reformed to "Jumpin' Jack Flash". Ry Cooder did "Honky Tonk Women", and Jagger "Brown Sugar"...
Okay; my question is rheorical, and should not be taken seriously; the term "inventing" in rock and roll is vague one... Keith's antenna disn't care much about the sources of the ideas but his genious was transforming them to masterpieces)- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
BroomWagon
()
Date: December 6, 2011 17:16
I did not know there was such a comprehensive huge Jack Nitzche website, for sure, Jack worked a lot on the Aftermath album: [www.spectropop.com]
Oh, by the way, on 'Dancing in the streets', when that is discussed, they are making mention of the guitars in it, not that horn section. Of course, we all know Bowie/Jagger did dancing in the street.
Oh, by the way, on 'Dancing in the streets', when that is discussed, they are making mention of the guitars in it, not that horn section. Of course, we all know Bowie/Jagger did dancing in the street.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
steel driving hammer
()
Date: December 6, 2011 17:26
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
I am going to go out on a limb and say;
this is one of the greatest songs ever written by anyone in the history of the world.
The tree limb your are on is very strong and petrified .
No worries of falling.
You might as well want to build a nest.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 6, 2011 19:03
Quote
steel driving hammerQuote
Max'sKansasCity
I am going to go out on a limb and say;
this is one of the greatest songs ever written by anyone in the history of the world.
The tree limb your are on is very strong and petrified .
No worries of falling.
You might as well want to build a nest.
made in the shadeRe: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
steel driving hammer
()
Date: December 6, 2011 19:05
Quote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
steel driving hammerQuote
Max'sKansasCity
I am going to go out on a limb and say;
this is one of the greatest songs ever written by anyone in the history of the world.
The tree limb your are on is very strong and petrified .
No worries of falling.
You might as well want to build a nest.
High Five.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 6, 2011 19:09
Quote
steel driving hammerQuote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
steel driving hammerQuote
Max'sKansasCity
I am going to go out on a limb and say;
this is one of the greatest songs ever written by anyone in the history of the world.
The tree limb your are on is very strong and petrified .
No worries of falling.
You might as well want to build a nest.
High Five.
yeah we need high five smiley face.... but drinks will doRe: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: December 6, 2011 21:51
Quote
marcovandereijk
On twitter Bill stated that his inspiration for the Jumpin' Jack Flash riff was Chuck Berry's
single 'Club Nitty Gritty'.
Source: twitter
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
crumbling_mice
()
Date: December 6, 2011 22:43
A classic by any measurement. A song that paved the way for thousands of replicas, none of which came anywhere close to this masterpiece of Rock N Roll.
To this day I can still remember hearing it for the first time; My older brother had bought Get Yer Ya Ya's Out and our house reverberated to the strains of JJF. It totally had me mesmerised....'what the hell was this music?' I listened at his door and waited until he went out then went in to examine the LP sleeeve. I had some how expected to see something demonic on the cover yet there was this bloke with a donkey on an empty road...flipped the cover over and saw the small photos from live shows. Yes, this waqs more like it, they looked rough, they looked like the music I had been hearing. I played it and played it - just JJF...jumped around his room with a tennis racket for a guitar! THis was the way forward for me and once I got into the rest of the LP there was no going back. But JJF was just such a life changing bombardment of my senses at a very early age - 9 !
To this day I can still remember hearing it for the first time; My older brother had bought Get Yer Ya Ya's Out and our house reverberated to the strains of JJF. It totally had me mesmerised....'what the hell was this music?' I listened at his door and waited until he went out then went in to examine the LP sleeeve. I had some how expected to see something demonic on the cover yet there was this bloke with a donkey on an empty road...flipped the cover over and saw the small photos from live shows. Yes, this waqs more like it, they looked rough, they looked like the music I had been hearing. I played it and played it - just JJF...jumped around his room with a tennis racket for a guitar! THis was the way forward for me and once I got into the rest of the LP there was no going back. But JJF was just such a life changing bombardment of my senses at a very early age - 9 !
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 6, 2011 22:45
Quote
His MajestyQuote
marcovandereijk
On twitter Bill stated that his inspiration for the Jumpin' Jack Flash riff was Chuck Berry's
single 'Club Nitty Gritty'.
Source: twitter
Just an fyi this twitter [twitter.com] account. It may, or may not, really be Bill Wyman. I am not passing judgement on anyone here, I am simply passing on information about "verifed accounts" [support.twitter.com] on twitter.... and this account is NOT verified (does not have the verified badge)... of course it could be Bill, but I would not make a large wager on it.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: December 7, 2011 02:55
Quote
71Tele
They soon shed these types of sounds for the rootsier Beggars Banquet approach.
Amen to that. Give me acoustic stones, force Mick to sing Bakersfield style melodies with Keith's old man harmony mixed at equal volume, I'm in heaven. Thanks Gram P for all that. peace.
Re: Track Talk: Jumpin' Jack Flash
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: December 7, 2011 09:19
This incredibly great song made my world a crossfire hurricane, and I thank the Stones for that.
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