Hello all,

New to this forum.
Very interesting post.
I totally agree that Zep were great musicians, and I love the band, but that doesn't give them the right to just blatantly rip other artists off.
Very hypocritical of them since they would sue the hell out of someone if they so much as used a few seconds of one of their tunes.
I agree that everyone "borrows" but there is a line where borrowing becomes stealing. Especially when you are using whole verses and chunks of music that others have written. I mean just listen to Whole Lotta Love, those lyrics are completely lifted right off the original and it's credited to Plant & Page? BS! Give the man his due!
I've always laughed at this one - Zep made a career of ripping others off without giving anyone credit, but then PAID Ritchie Valens' mom to use THREE WORDS ("Ooh my head") in their tune "boogie with Stu" which features Ian Stewart. What dumb asses!
I totally understand where Keith is coming from, it's a little hard to have respect for others who steal when everyone else is giving credit where credit is due!

zep are hacks, its like solving the tricks of a magician

yeah remember they had their music taken out of the film bad lieutenant , the nerve!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry about Pagey and his borrowing ... What about this shocking news...

[artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com]



ROCKMAN

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brianwalker

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crumbling_mice
Nothing is new....it's as straight forward as that. Zeppelin were giants, their shows were incredible. Superb musicians and songwriters.

Not sure about songwriters. The problem with this whole thing when looking at Zeppelin is thw fact that they stole many of their best songs. They stole a ton for their first 4 albums which are considered their best period. This is comparable to finding out that the Stones stole like 20 songs from their 1968-1972 period. Or the Beatles stole 20 songs from their 1966-1970 period. It would ruin their rep and rightfully so. And lets face it except for the first 4 albums Zeppelin really didn't do that much that is considered great.

So if you like Zepplin and don't care fine, but I could never consider them in the same league as bands like the Beatles or Stones who created a ton of great music on their own. And i think ranking them with the Beatles,Stones, or Dylan on any musical list if laughable. Zeppelin is a great cover band.

yes, indeed, good point. I always loved Zepp and always will, but they are probably THE ultimate cover band . . . its interesting that they didnt "really" rub elbows with the established rock royalty of the 70's (it seems) they were always sort of outside the scene . . .

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jamesfdouglas

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keefriffhard4life

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jamesfdouglas
I can think of a few people that Mick and Keith have stolen from (aka - NOT given credit for which is the SAME THING) . Let's see..

1. Bill Wyman
2. Brian Jones
3. Mick Talyor
4. Ron Wood
5. Nicky Hopkins

but at least they were still members of the rolling stones

I see... so it's better to be able to look in the faces onstage of those you steal from?

no i meant at least it was a song that originated in the stones camp and not something by another artist

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Keithaholic
Hello all,

New to this forum.
Very interesting post.
I totally agree that Zep were great musicians, and I love the band, but that doesn't give them the right to just blatantly rip other artists off.
Very hypocritical of them since they would sue the hell out of someone if they so much as used a few seconds of one of their tunes.
I agree that everyone "borrows" but there is a line where borrowing becomes stealing. Especially when you are using whole verses and chunks of music that others have written. I mean just listen to Whole Lotta Love, those lyrics are completely lifted right off the original and it's credited to Plant & Page? BS! Give the man his due!
I've always laughed at this one - Zep made a career of ripping others off without giving anyone credit, but then PAID Ritchie Valens' mom to use THREE WORDS ("Ooh my head") in their tune "boogie with Stu" which features Ian Stewart. What dumb asses!
I totally understand where Keith is coming from, it's a little hard to have respect for others who steal when everyone else is giving credit where credit is due!

In the USA a high-school student would receive a failing grade for such blatant plagiarism. A University can even expel someone for the extensive plagiarism that LZ earned handsomely from.

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deadegad

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Keithaholic
Hello all,

New to this forum.
Very interesting post.
I totally agree that Zep were great musicians, and I love the band, but that doesn't give them the right to just blatantly rip other artists off.
Very hypocritical of them since they would sue the hell out of someone if they so much as used a few seconds of one of their tunes.
I agree that everyone "borrows" but there is a line where borrowing becomes stealing. Especially when you are using whole verses and chunks of music that others have written. I mean just listen to Whole Lotta Love, those lyrics are completely lifted right off the original and it's credited to Plant & Page? BS! Give the man his due!
I've always laughed at this one - Zep made a career of ripping others off without giving anyone credit, but then PAID Ritchie Valens' mom to use THREE WORDS ("Ooh my head") in their tune "boogie with Stu" which features Ian Stewart. What dumb asses!
I totally understand where Keith is coming from, it's a little hard to have respect for others who steal when everyone else is giving credit where credit is due!

In the USA a high-school student would receive a failing grade for such blatant plagiarism. A University can even expel someone for the extensive plagiarism that LZ earned handsomely from.

So if what they did is so awful. Why didn't anybody ever sue them?

As has been stated more than once in this thread they WERE sued numerous times and settled even more times than that....

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sweetcharmedlife

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deadegad

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Keithaholic
Hello all,

New to this forum.
Very interesting post.
I totally agree that Zep were great musicians, and I love the band, but that doesn't give them the right to just blatantly rip other artists off.
Very hypocritical of them since they would sue the hell out of someone if they so much as used a few seconds of one of their tunes.
I agree that everyone "borrows" but there is a line where borrowing becomes stealing. Especially when you are using whole verses and chunks of music that others have written. I mean just listen to Whole Lotta Love, those lyrics are completely lifted right off the original and it's credited to Plant & Page? BS! Give the man his due!
I've always laughed at this one - Zep made a career of ripping others off without giving anyone credit, but then PAID Ritchie Valens' mom to use THREE WORDS ("Ooh my head") in their tune "boogie with Stu" which features Ian Stewart. What dumb asses!
I totally understand where Keith is coming from, it's a little hard to have respect for others who steal when everyone else is giving credit where credit is due!

In the USA a high-school student would receive a failing grade for such blatant plagiarism. A University can even expel someone for the extensive plagiarism that LZ earned handsomely from.

So if what they did is so awful. Why didn't anybody ever sue them?

Unfortunately Zep had already amassed a huge fortune by that time and were one of the richest bands ever. A lot of artists who had been ripped off were intimidated to sue them or didn't even bother. A real shame. All these artists should have got together and sued them en masse. Another big mistake was them settling out of court, they should have taken them all the way and demand back royalties on top of it. Page and Plant will never get my respect the same way Lennon & McCartney or Jagger & Richards do, they're not even in the same ballpark.
The Beatles and Stones will always be light years ahead of Zeppelin - I don't care how talented Page and his band were. I don't think Zep ever got much respect from bands like the Beatles and Stones anyway.

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Rockman
Don't worry about Pagey and his borrowing ... What about this shocking news...

[artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com]

Not the first time shes borrowed an idea or sampled someone else's track. Like with Zep, the originator doesn't always get credited. It's one of her flaws, unfortunately.

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tatters

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organicjoe
The opening guitar to Stairway To Heaven was nicked from Spirit's song Taurus, which was recorded two years earlier.

Hmmmmm, very similar indeed.

How convenient to lift the music from the band that you preceded on stage.

Anybody Seen my baby (MJ/KR/KD LANG)

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

Been discussed to death, but they were really very generous with that credit.

Anyway, back to the topic...pretty sad, but then Page was a studio hack, if he'd had any songwriting talent in the first place he would have done something else. Probably explains why the guy hasn't written a single thing of even the remotest interest since...Achille's Last Stand, being generous, in what...1976? Even Pete Townsend's done better than that, which is not saying much.

Sure, guys like Mick, Keith, Macca and Zim have been past their prime for 30+ years but they still write decent songs.

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sweetcharmedlife
So if what they did is so awful. Why didn't anybody ever sue them?

Mmm...they were sued by Willie Dixon, Jake Holmes...and other artists wanted to sue them but were adviced not to, like Bert Jansch.

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Keithaholic
Hello all,

New to this forum.
Very interesting post.
I totally agree that Zep were great musicians, and I love the band, but that doesn't give them the right to just blatantly rip other artists off.
Very hypocritical of them since they would sue the hell out of someone if they so much as used a few seconds of one of their tunes.
I agree that everyone "borrows" but there is a line where borrowing becomes stealing. Especially when you are using whole verses and chunks of music that others have written. I mean just listen to Whole Lotta Love, those lyrics are completely lifted right off the original and it's credited to Plant & Page? BS! Give the man his due!
I've always laughed at this one - Zep made a career of ripping others off without giving anyone credit, but then PAID Ritchie Valens' mom to use THREE WORDS ("Ooh my head") in their tune "boogie with Stu" which features Ian Stewart. What dumb asses!
I totally understand where Keith is coming from, it's a little hard to have respect for others who steal when everyone else is giving credit where credit is due!

HAVE YOU LISTENED TO VALEN'S "OOH MY HEAD"??? "BOOGIE WITH STU" IS PRACTICALLY THE ENTIRE SONG ,NOT JUST THREE WORDS...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-31 18:03 by scottkeef.

Great expose. Rip off artists that I like immensley. Good thing they got out of that habit after their first record.

In the book The Playboy Interviews with John Lennon & Yoko Ono: The Final Testament, John Lennon says the following:

"I think Mick Jagger took 'Bless You' and turned it into 'Miss You'...The engineer kept wanting me to speed that up—he said, 'This is a hit song if you'd just do it fast.' He was right. 'Cause as 'Miss You' it turned into a hit. I like Mick's record better. I have no ill feelings about it. I think it's a GREAT Stones track, and I really love it. But I do hear that lick in it. Could be subconscious or conscious. It's irrelevant. Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it."

You decide:

I never understood what Lennon was going on about there, I don't hear the similarity.

A lot to say on this thread but I'll keep it short, I think Kashmir is a LZ original and that is about their best. I watched all of those videos on youtube. .

Page got a medal, one of those MBEs or OBEs from the Queen for helping abused street kids in Brazil, so he did some good in the end.

I always thought this sounded very similar to Bless You:









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-01 13:54 by tatters.

Rockman you're rocking today. Man, even Beyonce has let us down. Tears on my pillow etc.

I am a bit puzzled by this thread. Just imagine you try to find a new tune standing in your bathroom shower. Just imagine... and? You may find yourself trapped in repeating someone else's tune. There is only a certain broadband of notes which you can hit to find a song which sounds like rock and roll or blues or what ever. The plagarism has effected rock and roll since its earliest days and not just when the Stones, or Led Zeppelin or Bowie came along.
Don't you just realize the band's name when you hear the first notes of any even new songs? aaaah you see? There have been so many million of notes put together and singing or whistling in your bathroom to find a new tune is exactly what they do in the studio: at the end it's a repeat with new ideas.
And why argueing about it when the musics just fine?

Anyone have a list of the songs Zep actually 100% wrote?

look i know most bands take a little of this or a little of that but zep really crossed the line cmon now, they are a glorified cover band

Star Star doesn't sound like Chuck Berry.

Jumping Jack Flash sounds nothing like Mr. Soul by the Buffalo Springfield. It's been talked about on these forums, curious: [www.iorr.org]

Interesting Neil Young lyrics:

"I'm singin' this borrowed tune I took from the rolling stones, Alone in this empty room Too wasted to write my own.
I'm climbin' this ladder, My heads in the clouds I hope that it matters. "

[www.metrolyrics.com]

A friend once said that that sound, "borrowed tune" sounds a bit like Stupid Girl, I don't know if I heard that in there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-01 16:39 by BroomWagon.

"Mr. Soul" always seemed like a rip-off of "Satisfaction" to me.

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BroomWagon
A friend once said that that sound, "borrowed tune" sounds a bit like Stupid Girl, I don't know if I heard that in there.

Lady Jane, actually.

Star Star is more like a tribute to Chuck Berry I've always thought, just the way some song might sound like a Reggae song, they are giving recognition to the Reggae sound.