Willie Dixon suing people is a whole lot of funny.

Why didn't Willie Dixon sue Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley for ripping off Hoochie Coochie Man with Mannish Boy and I'm A Man?

....oh yes, that's right, he didn't know what their real names were

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BroomWagon
I do think Jumping Jack Flash's main riff does sound quite a bit like the one from Mr. Soul by Buffalo Springfield/Neil Young.

Mr Soul was a direct blatant rip-off off Satisfaction!

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dcba

Mr Soul was a direct blatant rip-off off Satisfaction!

... and Satisfaction is a rip off of the horns on Nowhere To Run.

Around and around it goes.

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dcba

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kleermaker
Stairway To Heaven is plagiarism in its purest form. Led Zeppelin, a fake band.

I wouldn't go that far but the Taurus/STH mess shows how Page wrote music : he started from something that was already existing and made it his own.

I don't think GS or SMorphine were born out of a song that was already existing... BIG difference!

Under my thumb and this me think GS originated from:

Pink Floyd should be done for "Goodnye blue sky" completely ripping off "Ruby Tuesday". Save for swapping "blue sky" and "ruby Tuesday" in the chorus of each song they are identical.

I don't agree "Nowhere to hide" is the prequel to the "Satisfaction". And that's because it is not.

I love Zeppelin but they were musical thieves. "Ooh my head" being credited to them and Stu is like me playing "Black dog" with my band and casually for the world to see claiming it as my own.

It happens all the time tho. How did Rod get away with "Killing of Georgie pt 2" without Lennon or McCartney jumping all over him for "Don't let me down"?

By the way. I did write "Black dog"

End part of stairway to heaven ( when he winds on down the road) is similar to all along the watchtower (dylan version)-same chord sequence. gimme shelter is similar to Hendrix version of watchtower-same chord sequence.

Jimmy Page Busy Writing New Songs: 'I've Got Lots of Material'

[www.rollingstone.com]

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OzHeavyThrobber


I don't agree "Nowhere to hide" is the prequel to the "Satisfaction". And that's because it is not.

The horn motif is.

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ozziestone
End part of stairway to heaven ( when he winds on down the road) is similar to all along the watchtower (dylan version)-same chord sequence. gimme shelter is similar to Hendrix version of watchtower-same chord sequence.

Age old chord progression, Under My Thumb uses it, but Gimme Shelter is different in that it uses all major chords.

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His Majesty

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ozziestone
End part of stairway to heaven ( when he winds on down the road) is similar to all along the watchtower (dylan version)-same chord sequence. gimme shelter is similar to Hendrix version of watchtower-same chord sequence.

Age old chord progression, Under My Thumb uses it, but Gimme Shelter is different in that it uses all major chords.

And some people don't see the difference between plagiarism (LZ) and being influenced and/or inspired by.

The Mr Soul riff is somewhere between Satisfaction and JJF (maybe more Satisfaction than JJF) and the Mr Soul riff is obviously a rearrangement of the Satisfaction riff but it came out pre JJF, so I think Keith would have heard it especially as Jack Nitzsche had Buffalo Sringfield links and maybe it inspired Keith to rearrange the Satisfaction riff into the JJF riff, I don't know.

I think Bill's claim to the JJF riff can't be verified.

Led Zep ripped off some things but didn't rip off other things.

Dazed and Confused is a pretty blatant rip off.

Black Dog seems to be based on Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Well" and the riff was inspired by a Funk recording I think.

Jimmy might have used the Spirit Taurus bit for a bit of inspiration.

Willie Dixon, Bert Jansch etc etc.

But a lot of bands use other songs or bits of other songs for inspiration including the Beatles and Deep Purple etc etc.

I think in some of the Led Zep's cases that they didn't rearrange their songs enough to take them away from the original source.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 17:24 by howled.

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OzHeavyThrobber
Pink Floyd should be done for "Goodnye blue sky" completely ripping off "Ruby Tuesday". Save for swapping "blue sky" and "ruby Tuesday" in the chorus of each song they are identical.

I don't agree "Nowhere to hide" is the prequel to the "Satisfaction". And that's because it is not.

I love Zeppelin but they were musical thieves. "Ooh my head" being credited to them and Stu is like me playing "Black dog" with my band and casually for the world to see claiming it as my own.

It happens all the time tho. How did Rod get away with "Killing of Georgie pt 2" without Lennon or McCartney jumping all over him for "Don't let me down"?

By the way. I did write "Black dog"

When they launch into Goodbye at 1.42, I was expecting "Ruby Tuesday" to follow.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 17:30 by howled.

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kleermaker


And some people don't see the difference between plagiarism (LZ) and being influenced and/or inspired by.

The stones did both.

Direct riff and melody lifts as well as more general things like chords etc.

Under My Thumb and Paint It Black both feature direct lifts of a motif for the first and melody for the second.

All musicians steal ideas from others, it's just the way things are.

Instrumental Version of Nowhere To Run, one can hear the horns very clearly.

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His Majesty

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kleermaker


And some people don't see the difference between plagiarism (LZ) and being influenced and/or inspired by.

The stones did both.

Direct riff and melody lifts as well as more general things like chords etc.

Under My Thumb and Paint It Black both feature direct lifts of a motif for the first and melody for the second.

All musicians steal ideas from others, it's just the way things are.

But stealing ideas is essentially diferent from plagiarism.

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kleermaker

But stealing ideas is essentially diferent from plagiarism.

Keith Richards stealing a riff is the same as Jimmy Page stealing a riff.

Page did take it further though with things like Dazed and Confused.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 18:13 by His Majesty.

Mother's Finest version of "Mickeys Monkey" combines Smokey Robinson's MM with the music from Zep's "Custard Pie".

Here's a fun one from 1966, The Small Faces You Need Loving:




Not only are the lyrics familiar, but at the very end there is an interesting break in the song.
While others groups have pinched a lyric here or there, or a riff here or there, Led Zeppelin took whole songs without crediting there rightful author. IMO, this undermines the groups credibility as musicians.

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His Majesty

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kleermaker

But stealing ideas is essentially diferent from plagiarism.

Keith Richards stealing a riff is the same as Jimmy Page stealing a riff.

Page did take it further though with things like Dazed and Confused.

Well you think what LZ did is the same as what the Stones/Richards did. My judgement is that it's not comparable at all.

Under my Thumb:





On With the Show:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 19:37 by Cristiano Radtke.

Loopy theory here even I think is likely not true (and it might not even work chronologically, as Start Me Up was dealt with in different sessions, and I'm not sure which versions were attempted in which sessions.) but...anyway...when I listen to Start Me Up and the Sex Pistols’ God Save the Queen I hear: the flipping from one chord to another and back as the main riff. The sliding from one chord/fret to another in other parts. Mick (in Barbara Charone’s KEITH biography) was talking up the Sex Pistols during the Some Girls sessions, to Keith’s exasperation. The Stones played a bunch of takes of Start Me Up as a reggae tune, then played an anomalous rocking version that Keith resented for a long time when it was picked as the final version. Because of a Sex Pistols influence? Probably not. But I do hear similarities of sorts when listening to the two songs. Probably just my superimposition.

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Happy Jack
Here's a fun one from 1966, The Small Faces You Need Loving:

Not only are the lyrics familiar, but at the very end there is an interesting break in the song.
While others groups have pinched a lyric here or there, or a riff here or there, Led Zeppelin took whole songs without crediting there rightful author. IMO, this undermines the groups credibility as musicians.

The Small Faces are also guilty of not crediting the rightful author - "You Need Loving" gives no writing credit to Willie Dixon, only "Lane/Marriott".

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kleermaker

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MILKYWAY
Stairway has been out for 40+ years and now Spirit is suing? Ever hear of something called a statute of limitations?

Good lord, this comment is really nonsense in all respects. This time it's superfluous to argue why, because it's so obvious.

Just like the former one, saying that Stairway isn't exactly the same as Taurus. Of course not, but it is clearly plagiarism, even though both songs are not literally the samen. This is the umpthiest time this band has committed plagiarism. And plagiarism is NOT the same as Being Inpired by or something! Hard for the fans of this second or third rate band.

I post that Stairway has been out for over four decades and you say it is nonsense?

Do you have any idea what a "statute of limitations" is? Methinks you don't.

You're blinded by your personal feelings about the band and it causes you to post mindless drivel. Your motto should be, "Don't confuse me with the facts. I have already made up my mind."

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MILKYWAY

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kleermaker

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MILKYWAY
Stairway has been out for 40+ years and now Spirit is suing? Ever hear of something called a statute of limitations?

Good lord, this comment is really nonsense in all respects. This time it's superfluous to argue why, because it's so obvious.

Just like the former one, saying that Stairway isn't exactly the same as Taurus. Of course not, but it is clearly plagiarism, even though both songs are not literally the samen. This is the umpthiest time this band has committed plagiarism. And plagiarism is NOT the same as Being Inpired by or something! Hard for the fans of this second or third rate band.

I post that Stairway has been out for over four decades and you say it is nonsense?

Do you have any idea what a "statute of limitations" is? Methinks you don't.

You're blinded by your personal feelings about the band and it causes you to post mindless drivel. Your motto should be, "Don't confuse me with the facts. I have already made up my mind."

The issue here is if there's plagiarism or not. It's obvious there is, after listening. For the rest I'm totally indifferent as to the band Led Zeppelin. Not pro, not contra. But their systematical plagiarism is reason for me to call them a fake band. That may hurt some hardcore LZ fans.

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kleermaker

Well you think what LZ did is the same as what the Stones/Richards did. My judgement is that it's not comparable at all.

For some things it is comparable.

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kleermaker

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MILKYWAY

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kleermaker

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MILKYWAY
Stairway has been out for 40+ years and now Spirit is suing? Ever hear of something called a statute of limitations?

Good lord, this comment is really nonsense in all respects. This time it's superfluous to argue why, because it's so obvious.

Just like the former one, saying that Stairway isn't exactly the same as Taurus. Of course not, but it is clearly plagiarism, even though both songs are not literally the samen. This is the umpthiest time this band has committed plagiarism. And plagiarism is NOT the same as Being Inpired by or something! Hard for the fans of this second or third rate band.

I post that Stairway has been out for over four decades and you say it is nonsense?

Do you have any idea what a "statute of limitations" is? Methinks you don't.

You're blinded by your personal feelings about the band and it causes you to post mindless drivel. Your motto should be, "Don't confuse me with the facts. I have already made up my mind."

The issue here is if there's plagiarism or not. It's obvious there is, after listening. For the rest I'm totally indifferent as to the band Led Zeppelin. Not pro, not contra. But their systematical plagiarism is reason for me to call them a fake band. That may hurt some hardcore LZ fans.

But regardless of whether or not it is plagiarism, how is my comment that Stairway was released over 40 years ago "nonsense in all respects"?

This year (2014) minus the year Stairway was released (1971) equals 43 years.

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Jah Paul

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Happy Jack
Here's a fun one from 1966, The Small Faces You Need Loving:

Not only are the lyrics familiar, but at the very end there is an interesting break in the song.
While others groups have pinched a lyric here or there, or a riff here or there, Led Zeppelin took whole songs without crediting there rightful author. IMO, this undermines the groups credibility as musicians.

The Small Faces are also guilty of not crediting the rightful author - "You Need Loving" gives no writing credit to Willie Dixon, only "Lane/Marriott".

This is very true, and I forgot to mention that. But in this case it makes it even worse: Zeppelins stealing a song already stolen and their version is stolen from another version. Zeppelins Whole Lotta Love has more in common with the Small Faces You Need Loving then it does with Muddy's version.

I nearly forgot, we're on a Stones sight and yet no mention (that I've seen) has been made of Poor Tom off of Coda. This little dity clearly owes its arrangement to the Stones arrangement of Prodigal Son.


(in case you needed to hear it to refresh your memory)

The Stones themselves did a heckuvalotta this kind of "borrowing," too, as did numerous other bands. There's a lot of talk of "stealing" here, but for the most part--and obviously there are exceptions--that's not how it works. In music, art, and literature, both conscious and subconscious influence, as well as quoting, echoing, sampling, etc., are much more of an organic part of the creative process. (The whole notion of artistic originality being desirable is a comparatively recent phenomenon, in fact.)