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Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: December 1, 2011 18:38

Quote
Come On
OK but it's still just boring music....Led Zeppelin Jimmy Page and Robert Plant is boring...even a tune like 'Stairway to Heaven' after a couple of notes leads to nothing...

I will drink to thatthumbs up

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: sweetcharmedlife ()
Date: December 1, 2011 19:11

Quote
melillo
look i know most bands take a little of this or a little of that but zep really crossed the line cmon now, they are a glorified cover band
Absolute bullshit. Glorified cover bands don't sell millions of albums and concert tickets. Band had a lot of talent and was absolutely excellent. No matter what songwriting issues people bring up.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: deadegad ()
Date: December 1, 2011 19:27

Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Quote
melillo
look i know most bands take a little of this or a little of that but zep really crossed the line cmon now, they are a glorified cover band
Absolute bullshit. Glorified cover bands don't sell millions of albums and concert tickets. Band had a lot of talent and was absolutely excellent. No matter what songwriting issues people bring up.

Well in LZ's case the music consumer was not aware of these blatant plagiarisms so this was one 'cover band' that did indeed sell millions of it's product. Led Zeppelin took something and repackaged and processed it. It is clearly 'processed food' for the music consuming masses.

Having said that, Led Zeppelin were talented and created some great original lyrics and music -- as far as we know at this time -- and their interpretation of other's music is powerful, but, there should be an asterix next to their name hereafter. Perhaps others we are not aware of did likewise if not as prolifically or blatantly. The Lennon quote regarding music ownership means not much to me as it it was probably self serving.

I sill love listening to LZ and all of this does not really cross my mind while enjoying 'their' music.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: December 2, 2011 04:20

This thread makes me laugh. Led Zeppelin has great, great songs, it's that simple.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: MILKYWAY ()
Date: December 2, 2011 04:30

I am a bit confused. Yeah, sure, Led Zeppelin ripped off artists but then again, I had never heard of those artists. Without Led Zeppelin, I never would have learned of them, much less been a purchaser of whatever LPs these artists had on the market.

In short, because of Led Zeppelin, a lot of these artists made a lot of $$$$.

and that is bad?

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: December 2, 2011 04:45

no it is not bad but they did rip people off without giving credit until they got caught, they are a great band great players and entertainers just not great songwriters

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: December 2, 2011 04:46

in other words no one will ever mistake page and plant for lennon and macca

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: deadegad ()
Date: December 2, 2011 05:38

The defenders of LZ on this issue make me laugh because if someone ripped off the Stones like that there would be outrage here at IORR. The blatant rip-of by LZ is breathtaking! Do you think they really shared the wealth with the long forgotten artists on all accounts, across the board, down to the penny?

Imagine if I wrote a 'new' play called: Juliet w/ Romeo. Imagine if I borrowed liberally from the original. . .. Imagine if I sued others who tried to use 'my play'. . ..

I love listening to LZ, and they created some great originals too, but, please god God give me a break! Do not defend the indefensible (thanks George O).

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Title5Take1 ()
Date: December 2, 2011 05:40

Mick said, "I can't get no satisfaction" was Keith probably lifting it from "I can't get no satisfaction from the judge" from Chuck Berry's 30 DAYS (which is hardly lawsuit city).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-20 22:05 by Title5Take1.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: December 2, 2011 06:03

Quote
MILKYWAY
I am a bit confused. Yeah, sure, Led Zeppelin ripped off artists but then again, I had never heard of those artists. Without Led Zeppelin, I never would have learned of them, much less been a purchaser of whatever LPs these artists had on the market.

In short, because of Led Zeppelin, a lot of these artists made a lot of $$$$.

and that is bad?

The point is those other artists did NOT earn extra money because of Zepp. Zepp did not credit their music, so they earned no royalties and many songs were then thought of as original Zep numbers and the average fan isn't going out to find the source and buy it.
Now don't get me wrong. I like Zepp a lot. Have all their albums, boots, and really enjoy their music. But I also do not respect how blatantly and shamelessly they ripped off other artists.
It is a disgrace that people like Willie Dixon had to chase Zepp down to get what was owed him. Especially, from a group of boys who said/say they love the blues and that American's didn't support their own artists they way they should. . .
Having said that, I still listen to, and enjoy Zeppelin.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 2, 2011 06:15

The Yardbirds surely gave credit to all of those people they played the Blues from, Rolling Stones early albums have all kinds of tracks written by other people, it shouldn't be a big deal to give credit on albums.

I watched those plagiarism videos at youtube, there is a Joan Baez song or something like that, I can't pull it up, maybe a song she sang. This has long been said about lifting some licks from Moby Grape as well.

I don't know if it would have effected how one perceived Led Zeppelin, I'd listen to Ten Years After, they'd do the famous jazz piece Woodchoppers ball on their early albums, Good morning little school girl, Sweet Little 16, Spoonful and yes, these might be famous songs... Zep pilfered some obscure songs I guess.

I do have some Cream, I know they did blues classics, I don't know if they tended to write their own songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-02 06:18 by BroomWagon.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: December 2, 2011 07:35

If Zep can turn this...





into this...





...then I tip my cap to them.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Happy Jack ()
Date: December 2, 2011 07:39

If Zep can turn this:





Into this:





Then I fart in their general direction



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-02 07:50 by Happy Jack.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: December 2, 2011 07:59

Quote
Happy Jack
If Zep can turn this:

Into this:

Then I fart in their general direction

Nope. I tip my cap to them on this one, too. Yes, they ripped off part of his song and should have given him credit from day one, but the rest of it is their own.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: winter ()
Date: December 2, 2011 08:00

Very disappointing stuff in terms of their values, but I don't think it detracts from the peaks they created. I haven't listened to LZ I-IV in ages anyway; I've always thought Houses and Graffiti were their high watermark. Definitely blatant lyrical scoundrels, but I don't see how anyone can claim they are just ripoff artists with no redeeming musical/creative forces. That's just silly.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 2, 2011 08:05

Whole Lotta love, if that is one of the songs they took, who ever originally wrote the song didn't write that interlude in the song where all that stuff is going on. I'm not a big Led Zep fan and taking from others is kind of like seeing a sports event where someone cheats to win, empty victory but on the other hand, nobody ever sounded like that before, it's magnificent and Stairway to Heaven is way down on the list of their great songs. The Ocean and Kashmir are fine. Too bad, they couldn't take part for part of the song or something. If they took songs, they really are not straightforward renditions of the originals in most cases.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 2, 2011 20:30

I've got to bring it up and it's a bit silly especially since this is such an obscure Rolling Stones song, an outtake and not that good...so I don't think this can even be very significant at all and no one else may hear what I did so I could be all wet.

But I listen to the opening of "We're wasting time" and listen to the beginning, I know it sounds silly, of the Alvin and The Chipmunks song and the beginnings are similar to my ears.

edited the videos out, the chipmunks song lacks the intro.

This is just a funny coincidence, it's beyond real for anything to be intentional here, I mean, these are the Chipmunks afterall.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-02 20:55 by BroomWagon.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: pennyharp ()
Date: December 5, 2011 05:37

I gotta go to bed so if anyone mentioned this earlier please pardon my bleary eyes.

My fuss about all this is how bent out of shape Led Zep gets about their songs being used by ANYONE (movies, sampling, commercials)

I believe sharing (with credit) keeps art from dying...it can grow and change.

I could also fuss about The Beatles too but I'm tired and drifting off subject I think.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 5, 2011 05:54

Fats Domino is known for Blueberry Hill, I don't think he wrote it, I'm not sure if Fats wrote Aint' that a shame but he's real famous for both of them. The trick is to do someone else's song, give them credit but make it your own, Gram Parson's doing Wild Horses and things like that, Linda Ronstadt doing Tumbling dice. I'm sure there are better examples, well, all of Elvis's songs, he didn't write Jailhouse rock, etc. etc.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: sweetcharmedlife ()
Date: December 5, 2011 05:59

Quote
deadegad
The defenders of LZ on this issue make me laugh because if someone ripped off the Stones like that there would be outrage here at IORR. The blatant rip-of by LZ is breathtaking!
Quote

As opposed to the blatant rip off of Chuck Berry by the Stones?........Breathtaking indeed.eye rolling smiley

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: December 5, 2011 09:04

Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Quote
deadegad
The defenders of LZ on this issue make me laugh because if someone ripped off the Stones like that there would be outrage here at IORR. The blatant rip-of by LZ is breathtaking!
Quote

As opposed to the blatant rip off of Chuck Berry by the Stones?........Breathtaking indeed.eye rolling smiley

Not the same at all, not even close.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: peter wilson ()
Date: December 5, 2011 09:24

Same thing here; however....it was early days








Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: uhbuhgullayew ()
Date: December 20, 2011 02:20

Quote
Youngie
Anyone have a list of the songs Zep actually 100% wrote?

Any update on this?

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: December 20, 2011 02:27

Quote
LeonidP
This thread makes me laugh. Led Zeppelin has great, great songs, it's that simple.

the only problem is they didnt write them

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: tomcasagranda ()
Date: December 20, 2011 11:26

Little By Little by Nanker-Phelge is a Jimmy Reed steal.

Stoned is very Booker T & The Mgs.

Mick and Keith did it, Page & Plant did it. Even Dylan did it with The Levee's Gonna Break and Rollin & Tumblin on Modern Times.

It's all a case of Love & Theft. Great artists copy, greater artists steal.

However, when I was at Uni I read a book called The Anxiety of Influence by Harold Bloom, wherein he mentions that Milton copied and borrowed from Homer, the Greek poet, and that, with every age, a new poet borrows or steals from a precursor poet. I think you could apply this theory to the blues having a baby and calling it rock'n'roll.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 20, 2011 16:57

Joni Mitchell accused Bob Dylan of plagiarism. [www.independent.co.uk] Perhaps that is why that one CD is called that.

As for Bring it on home, what Page says is true that there are only seconds before and after the main part that are from the original song 'Bring it on home.'
Quote

The thing with "Bring It On Home," there's only a tiny bit taken from Sonny Boy Williamson's version and we threw that in as a tribute to him. People say, "Oh, 'Bring It On Home' is stolen." Well, there's only a little bit in the song that relates to anything that had gone before it, just the end.[5]

[en.wikipedia.org])

But now that I think about it, the verses in the main part do say "bring it on home", I mean, the medley is different but maybe it should be changed around some, for those 4 words, you could say a lot of other things as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-20 18:53 by BroomWagon.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Happy Jack ()
Date: December 20, 2011 18:38





"Woman, youuuuu need lovin"

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: December 20, 2011 18:59

Quote
seitan
Quote
Come On
OK but it's still just boring music....Led Zeppelin Jimmy Page and Robert Plant is boring...even a tune like 'Stairway to Heaven' after a couple of notes leads to nothing...

I will drink to thatthumbs up

Drink those words lucifer! Go have a listen to The Rain Song or Good Times Bad Times or Ten Years Gone. There is a whole lotta great music channeling through those Zep boys. He really defined a magical, no rules, hard rock with tenderness , almost sloppy style that is in a category all by itself.

I terms of popularity, check out the MILLIONS of hits all the Zep tunes have on Youtube. Way more than the Stones. You can't ignore them and you can't criticize them. They are Rock Gods , right up there with MJ and KR. peace.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 20, 2011 19:21

My view on Zep I said earlier is that I think Kashmir is a classic, that is their original. I like the Ocean a lot too. Kashmir to me is a rock anthem.

But with band comparisons often it is comparing apples to oranges.

There are a lot of bands out there.

I think Mott the Hoople/Ian Hunter did some really great rock and roll in the '70s, they aren't nearly as popular but I'll spin some of their songs often. I never liked GFR, Grand Funk Railroad but guys in highschool liked it so about a year ago for nostalgia reasons, I got one of their discs, they do Gimme Shelter on their live release, I still don't like them but it's still different strokes. GFR seems like pre-headbanger stuff, not for me at all.

Go over to the amazon.com boards, Classic Rock and at times, I've seen people debate about Deep Purple being the cats pajamas, I even bought their "in rock' at a good used price, No, I don't like that too much either but saw one of the songs used in a movie and I thought, you know that's actually alright.

[www.amazon.com]

Montrose, etc. lots of different tastes but it's interesting to talk about different bands. I like the early rock and roll anyway, if I'm listening to some Rolling Stones song, I'd be comparing them more to Keith Relf in the Yardbirds and I might hear Heart of Soul and think, yeah, that's a good song too with Jimmy Page on guitar. To heck with popularity, I might like the Yardbirds more than Led Zepellin.

Adding on: Hush by Deep Purple is pretty good but from reading the posts, that band has a real big discography too that you can't sum up in a few songs like Smoke on the water and Woman from Tokyo. People at those boards would talk about them being backed by a symphony orchestra, I haven't heard that stuff, In rock sounds very primitive to me, kind of like GFR. Led Zeppelin is a lot more than Stairway, I never really cared for that song alot, I say it's good but not one of their best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-20 19:24 by BroomWagon.

Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by: BroomWagon ()
Date: December 20, 2011 19:36

George Clinton or one of the original members of Parliament lives in this city, goes one place I do. On investigating Parliament, I found that some people think that Funk and in particular pioneered by Parliament is really something different and great. So I got one of their discs, I can't deny it's really good but I hardly ever play it. It's just not my thing but I had to try it. This is just to add on that we all have our preferences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-20 19:39 by BroomWagon.

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