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If that's from Jeff's gigs at Ronnie Scott's, Page was in the audience.
Some Black musicians might feel that because LZ were white they were acceptable and that's why, but not that LZ were better. LZ took form guys who were in some cases not current. Yet I do recall seeing an interview with some black American musicians who felt that , was it the Beatles? or the Stones ?, or both ?, became very popular playing 'black music'( in whole or in part) while the black musicians did not because they were unacceptably black.
I'm not saying it is true but that this is the way some people feel about these things.
It does make you think though.
i wish I could remember where and who said this.
That track by Spirit is a good case in point. All Zep did was take a bit of acoustic guitar from a shapeless, directionless, meandering piece of music, and then make it into the cornerstone in building one of the greatest rock tracks of all time. Still, I think it's good to know where these things come from, and I think whoever compiled the youtube clips at the top of the thread put the information together in an interesting and informative way. I hadn't even been aware of some of the examples that were cited.
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Ha ha In fairness, this isn't as similar, though, as the Gilberto-clip from 1965, in which plays the riff almost note for note.
But it's not rocket science, and it would surprise me if the very same riff have been around for a very long time.
Even here, especially if you slow it down a little, you can clearly hear something that comes very close to the Smoke On The Water riff.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-11 15:53 by tatters.
Your post is slightly different though, bwtf:
Yep, that's a classic. A mixture of a significant part of the riff of SOTW and the chord progression of Hit The Road, Jack
I think I already posted a post that should have closed the thread. Below.
The problem with this whole thing when looking at Zeppelin is thw fact that they stole many of their best songs. They stole a ton for their first 4 albums which are considered their best period. This is comparable to finding out that the Stones stole like 20 songs from their 1968-1972 period. Or the Beatles stole 20 songs from their 1966-1970 period. It would ruin their rep and rightfully so. And lets face it except for the first 4 albums Zeppelin really didn't do that much that is considered great.
So if you like Zepplin and don't care fine, but I could never consider them in the same league as bands like the Beatles or Stones who created a ton of great music on their own. And I think ranking them with the Beatles,Stones, or Dylan on any musical list if laughable. Zeppelin is for the most parta great cover band
but at least they were still members of the rolling stones
I see... so it's better to be able to look in the faces onstage of those you steal from?
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Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
organicjoe
()
Date: October 10, 2011 02:56
The opening guitar to Stairway To Heaven was nicked from Spirit's song Taurus, which was recorded two years earlier.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 10, 2011 03:12
Quote
organicjoe
The opening guitar to Stairway To Heaven was nicked from Spirit's song Taurus, which was recorded two years earlier.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: October 10, 2011 03:45
LZ seems to be the musical equivalent of Paint By Numbers if not an actual Art Heist.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 10, 2011 04:42
Interesting that Clapton and Beck chose to include this particular Willie Dixon cover in their set. Were the two legendary Yardbirds guitarists paying "tribute" to the one who wasn't there? .... or poking a little fun at him?
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: October 10, 2011 06:15
Who cares who ripped who off. Let the courts and lawyers figure it out. To me if it sounds good it sounds good. Their is a reason LZ was a lot more popular than the bands they allegedly ripped off. They were better.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 10, 2011 06:37
Quote
tatters
Interesting that Clapton and Beck chose to include this particular Willie Dixon cover in their set. Were the two legendary Yardbirds guitarists paying "tribute" to the one who wasn't there? .... or poking a little fun at him?
If that's from Jeff's gigs at Ronnie Scott's, Page was in the audience.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: October 10, 2011 08:27
Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Who cares who ripped who off. Let the courts and lawyers figure it out. To me if it sounds good it sounds good. Their is a reason LZ was a lot more popular than the bands they allegedly ripped off. They were better.
Some Black musicians might feel that because LZ were white they were acceptable and that's why, but not that LZ were better. LZ took form guys who were in some cases not current. Yet I do recall seeing an interview with some black American musicians who felt that , was it the Beatles? or the Stones ?, or both ?, became very popular playing 'black music'( in whole or in part) while the black musicians did not because they were unacceptably black.
I'm not saying it is true but that this is the way some people feel about these things.
It does make you think though.
i wish I could remember where and who said this.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
gwen
()
Date: October 10, 2011 09:11
I like this story about the credits on "Boogie with Stu"
Also, I remember reading how Jeff Beck was pissed when LZI came out and it had "You Shook Me" on it.
Quote
Jimmy Page
"Curiously enough, the one time we did try to do the right thing, it blew up in our faces.
Also, I remember reading how Jeff Beck was pissed when LZI came out and it had "You Shook Me" on it.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: October 10, 2011 18:23
While it's hardly plagiarism, when I listen to Superheavy's song ENERGY when Mick sings "I say, `Hey...'" it totally reminds me of Mick singing "I said, `Hey...'" in GET OFF OF MY CLOUD. And also, in the same song, the loud echoed guitar chords remind me of the loud echoed guitar chords in UNDERCOVER OF THE NIGHT.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-10 18:52 by Title5Take1.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-10 18:52 by Title5Take1.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
Midnight Toker
()
Date: October 10, 2011 21:16
That was a brilliant expose. Someone sure got screwed out of royalty money. My respect for Page went down a notch.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 11, 2011 03:42
Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Who cares who ripped who off. Let the courts and lawyers figure it out. To me if it sounds good it sounds good. Their is a reason LZ was a lot more popular than the bands they allegedly ripped off. They were better.
That track by Spirit is a good case in point. All Zep did was take a bit of acoustic guitar from a shapeless, directionless, meandering piece of music, and then make it into the cornerstone in building one of the greatest rock tracks of all time. Still, I think it's good to know where these things come from, and I think whoever compiled the youtube clips at the top of the thread put the information together in an interesting and informative way. I hadn't even been aware of some of the examples that were cited.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
scottkeef
()
Date: October 11, 2011 04:07
I agree that building a song around a "lick" isnt quite the same. Hey, even the riff to "Sweet Home Alabama" appears on an album by THEM ( a much later version based in the US that only included one original member) but to just take the entire song with barely changing any lyrics? thats stealing period but as Keith would say "They stole it well"!
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
Happy Jack
()
Date: October 11, 2011 07:20
There's a difference between lifting a guitar hook, as the Beatles were known to do, (example the Kinks You're Looking Fine and Hey Bulldog), and out rightly taking whole melodies and lyrics as Zeppelin did.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:22
Well, they certainly don't seem to be quite the mystic genius wizards I thought they were when I was in high school.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:32
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:37
Quote
AmsterdamnedQuote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:42
Quote
tattersQuote
AmsterdamnedQuote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Ha ha
In fairness, this isn't as similar, though, as the Gilberto-clip from 1965, in which plays the riff almost note for note.But it's not rocket science, and it would surprise me if the very same riff have been around for a very long time.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:48
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
tattersQuote
AmsterdamnedQuote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Ha ha
But it's not rocket science, and it would surprise me if the very same riff have been around for a very long time.
Even here, especially if you slow it down a little, you can clearly hear something that comes very close to the Smoke On The Water riff.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-11 15:53 by tatters.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:57
Quote
tattersQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
tattersQuote
AmsterdamnedQuote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Ha ha
But it's not rocket science, and it would surprise me if the very same riff have been around for a very long time.
Your post is slightly different though, bwtf:
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 11, 2011 15:59
Quote
tattersQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
tattersQuote
AmsterdamnedQuote
DandelionPowderman
Deep Purple has some explaining to do as well (thanks, Rocky!)
It appears to be that a short melody can turn into a riff.
That riff has been around a long, long time.
Ha ha
But it's not rocket science, and it would surprise me if the very same riff have been around for a very long time.
Even here, especially if you slow it down a little, you can clearly hear something that comes very close to the Smoke On The Water riff.
Yep, that's a classic. A mixture of a significant part of the riff of SOTW and the chord progression of Hit The Road, Jack
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 11, 2011 16:02
Django got down the start of the riff anyway 
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
sweetcharmedlife
()
Date: October 11, 2011 19:14
Doesn't bother me in the least. Like I said before,let the lawyers sort it out. To me a goodf song is still a good song. I'll lsiten to Zep's versions of these so called rip offs before I listen to the originals.Quote
tatters
Well, they certainly don't seem to be quite the mystic genius wizards I thought they were when I was in high school.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: October 11, 2011 19:21
I can think of a few people that Mick and Keith have stolen from (aka - NOT given credit for which is the SAME THING) . Let's see..
1. Bill Wyman
2. Brian Jones
3. Mick Talyor
4. Ron Wood
5. Nicky Hopkins
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-11 19:21 by jamesfdouglas.
1. Bill Wyman
2. Brian Jones
3. Mick Talyor
4. Ron Wood
5. Nicky Hopkins
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-11 19:21 by jamesfdouglas.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
custom55
()
Date: October 11, 2011 19:32
who cares... great band 
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
brianwalker
()
Date: October 11, 2011 21:04
Quote
sweetcharmedlife
Who cares who ripped who off. Let the courts and lawyers figure it out. To me if it sounds good it sounds good. Their is a reason LZ was a lot more popular than the bands they allegedly ripped off. They were better.
I think I already posted a post that should have closed the thread. Below.
The problem with this whole thing when looking at Zeppelin is thw fact that they stole many of their best songs. They stole a ton for their first 4 albums which are considered their best period. This is comparable to finding out that the Stones stole like 20 songs from their 1968-1972 period. Or the Beatles stole 20 songs from their 1966-1970 period. It would ruin their rep and rightfully so. And lets face it except for the first 4 albums Zeppelin really didn't do that much that is considered great.
So if you like Zepplin and don't care fine, but I could never consider them in the same league as bands like the Beatles or Stones who created a ton of great music on their own. And I think ranking them with the Beatles,Stones, or Dylan on any musical list if laughable. Zeppelin is for the most parta great cover band
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: October 11, 2011 21:28
Quote
jamesfdouglas
I can think of a few people that Mick and Keith have stolen from (aka - NOT given credit for which is the SAME THING) . Let's see..
1. Bill Wyman
2. Brian Jones
3. Mick Talyor
4. Ron Wood
5. Nicky Hopkins
but at least they were still members of the rolling stones
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: October 11, 2011 21:45
i'm a huge jimmy page fan,saw him live with zep a few times,with the firm, on his solo tour and also the page/plant thing.
but this is outrageous.i have always had a general knowledge of the blues things being stolen but i have to confess i didnt have any idea of how far it had gone.
the most disappointing thing for me is the black mountainside rip-off.that actually shocked me because it was jimmy's signature song that he did during his guitar solo.
for us yardbirds/zep/page fans we shouldnt try to sugarcoat this or act like its not a big deal,its a freakin travesty.the stealing of the blues songs is always a bit murky because those songs were sometimes developed by several different musicians or could be so old they became traditional songs.
but this..they were taking songs from their contemporaries in the 60s.i wish i didnt know any of this.
but this is outrageous.i have always had a general knowledge of the blues things being stolen but i have to confess i didnt have any idea of how far it had gone.
the most disappointing thing for me is the black mountainside rip-off.that actually shocked me because it was jimmy's signature song that he did during his guitar solo.
for us yardbirds/zep/page fans we shouldnt try to sugarcoat this or act like its not a big deal,its a freakin travesty.the stealing of the blues songs is always a bit murky because those songs were sometimes developed by several different musicians or could be so old they became traditional songs.
but this..they were taking songs from their contemporaries in the 60s.i wish i didnt know any of this.
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: October 11, 2011 22:02
the worst part like i said earlier is the lies to try and avoid paying the people who actually wrote the songs. i didn't watch these videos so i'm not sure if its on them but the best story is when page ripped off a song by someone who opened for either the yardbirds while page was with them or very early in zeppelins career. page then claimed he had never heard of the artist or the song even though it was played while opening for one of page's bands
Re: OT: Led Zeppelin's Plagiarism
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: October 12, 2011 01:21
Quote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
jamesfdouglas
I can think of a few people that Mick and Keith have stolen from (aka - NOT given credit for which is the SAME THING) . Let's see..
1. Bill Wyman
2. Brian Jones
3. Mick Talyor
4. Ron Wood
5. Nicky Hopkins
but at least they were still members of the rolling stones
I see... so it's better to be able to look in the faces onstage of those you steal from?
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