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sweetcharmedlife
Do people really seriously think Mick would let a couple of stupid Keith quotes from a hack ass book,let him decide about a tour? Sure Mick's pissed. But all we know about is the public side of things. Doesn't anybody think that Mick already knew about Keith's main complaints long before they went to the publisher? Or got tipped off at some point as to what was in the book? Remember,solo projects or group efforts. Everything gets run thru the Stones PR machine. Their is absolutely no way Mick didn't know what was going to be in that book ahead of time......And their is no way he will let that get in the way of a final tour. Even more than the money to be made. I think Mick's ego doesn't want that to be his final legacy. That the Stones didn't do a 50th anniversary tour because Keith said he had a small dick?
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dcba
"trabajaré" = "will work" not "will join"
appears a bit misleading in its present form.Quote
Jagger: "I don't know if I'll join Keith anymore".
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MartinB
I agree that the current situation has nothing to do with Keith's book. That's ridiculous, things have been bad for decades. Mick may indeed not want to tour with the Stones anymore, but not because of the book.
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DandelionPowderman
Still, as a journalist myself, I find it very interesting how much of this crap (I'm thinking about the huge amount of very thin stories - often pure re-hashing - about the Mick and Keith-war) we actually trust and take as the truth as soon as they appear in the media.
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DandelionPowderman
Let's post more stories like this one from now on: [www.artistdirect.com]
A way more pleasant read Credible? As credible as all the other BS, imo.
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WilliamPatrickMaynard
ProudMary, I've not always agreed with everything you've written, but I must say your last two posts strike me as positively spot-on.
Doxa expanded on something Mick mentioned in the insightful LA Times piece about being the one to "babysit" the others (particularly Keith). Doxa extrapolated Mick telling Keith (in so many words) to find someone else to take care of him or grow up. While I don't pretend to think the actual exchange occurred, the gist of what was written seems an accurate assessment of the predicament Keith found himself in at that point in the eighties.
The role of caretaker shifted from Mick to Jane Rose with the crucial point that Mick had just fired Jane after the filming of "Blame It On the Night." I don't doubt that without Jane we might not have Keith alive today. I don't doubt that without Jane we wouldn't have had two excellent solo albums from Keith (with hopefully a third on the way), but we also wouldn't have had the growing animosity toward Mick. Jane established as early as 1986 that Keith's media relationship would be as the guy with the guts to air the dirty laundry about Mick.
That has grown more outrageous over the years from a mere annoyance like the knighthood and "Dogshit in the Doorway" (it's interesting that the album Keith bashes most of Mick's was the first one Mick released when Keith was no longer in competition with him as a solo artist) to intolerably personal.
As a sidenote on "Dogshit in the Doorway," I would also remark that Keith has a history of writing off his bandmate's work as "dogshit." UNDERCOVER, in retrospect, seems like the first album where Mick is ready to go solo. While Keith was, at the time, full of praise for most of Mick's work, Ronnie's composition, "Pretty Beat Up" was labelled "Dogshit" in the session log. From accounts of the sessions, Keith locked himself up in the studio to produce the (in my opinion, brilliant) "Feel On, Baby" but the majority of the album was driven by Mick (obvious exceptions are "Wanna Hold You" and at the outset, "Too Tough"). Keith didn't feel comfortable lashing out at Mick's dominance at the time (that would come later), but Ronnie (his former partner in crime and fellow New Barbarian) could be kicked to the ground for writing drivel. Ronnie became the outlet for Keith's frustration with Mick.
It's always interested me that "Pretty Beat Up" sounded like a poor quality demo graced with this wonderful saxophone solo and the song only realized its potential when Ronnie played it on his solo tour a decade later. It rather felt, unlike Ronnie's previous songwriting efforts, that it was never given the same opportunity to develop as a track as it should have. If it sounded anywhere near as polished as Ronnie's live version but with Sanborn's saxophone added, it would probably be regarded as an album highlight today. A strange aside perhaps, but one that I think mirrors the behavior we are discussing at length.
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proudmaryQuote
DandelionPowderman
Still, as a journalist myself, I find it very interesting how much of this crap (I'm thinking about the huge amount of very thin stories - often pure re-hashing - about the Mick and Keith-war) we actually trust and take as the truth as soon as they appear in the media.
Well, I'm a documentary filmmaker- the field close to journalism - so I see what you mean. But my point was that all that Mick's cock'n'balls BS brought Richards a lot of money. What, in fact, was his main intention. Well, and the opportunity to laugh at the expense of Mick ( the pleasure he has never denied)
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DandelionPowderman
It's interesting that you know so much about the Undercover sessions. Why did Keith label the song Dogshit, do you know that? Or is that all you know? If the latter, it's a bit of a stretch speculating as you do, imo. The band members internal humour and jokes are nothing but that, until proven otherwise, imo.
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WilliamPatrickMaynardQuote
DandelionPowderman
It's interesting that you know so much about the Undercover sessions. Why did Keith label the song Dogshit, do you know that? Or is that all you know? If the latter, it's a bit of a stretch speculating as you do, imo. The band members internal humour and jokes are nothing but that, until proven otherwise, imo.
You are correct I am speculating on labelling "Pretty Beat Up" as "Dogshit." At the time, I thought of it as big brother-little brother humor. It wasn't until Keith used the same phrase with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY that I thought twice about it. That said, like everyone else here (or nearly everyone, at any rate), I don't claim to be an insider. I'm just a fan speculating on what I've read or heard or seen just like everybody else.
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WilliamPatrickMaynard
So we take a different perspective on it. Regardless, I've always enjoyed your posts and well-stated opinions for the past 14 years or thereabouts. It's sometimes hard to remember how long I've actually been on this board and when I first saw someone's username.
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dead.flowersQuote
dcba
"trabajaré" = "will work" not "will join"
Exactly.
Spain73:
Would you mind adjusting your thread title? [Using the "Edit" button.]
The tread titleappears a bit misleading in its present form.Quote
Jagger: "I don't know if I'll join Keith anymore".
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WilliamPatrickMaynard
As did I under the borrowed alias of a Moroccan percussionist. Although I think I lurked for the first year or so without posting. There are a few people out there who wish I would do so again.
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Doxa
The thing about Jane Rose, Rocky - he is always Rocky Dijon for me - brought in, is a spot on. I never counted 'one plus one' but yeah, it really makes sense. And explains a lot.
Also very insightful and intersting what Rocky says about UNDERCOVER sessions. That album has been a kind of blind spot for me - very hard to try to make sense out of it, unlike, say, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, TATTOO YOU and then DIRTY WORK. If I believe my own 'analysis' (sometimes I don't), the band was after EMOTIONAL RESCUE, and Mick-ruled TATTOO YOU (that I think was done that way to keep the ego conflict out), and socially disaster 1981/82 tour in such a bad condition that making a brandnew Stones album, all them together, sounded a bit anomaly-like. I think Rocky's point of it being a kind of proto album for Jagger's solo career as a good way to look at it. He was testing there new ground, and supposedly for the last time, actually used the Stones as an organ to realize for his own artistic visions. Anyway, for some reason Mick and Keith tolerated quite alright each other then. Maybe Keith felt that if he now starts arguing too much with Mick, that will be the final nail in the coffin. I don't think any of them, including Keith, were so stupid at the time that they didn't know that there was the solo career option for Mick available (it didn't came out of blue). So when that actually happened, the hell broke free - I guess Keith, after 'behaving so well', felt like betrayed. And then we have Jane Rose there to advice him, etc.
Anyway, the point I have argued in several of my posts is that it was during the time frame from EMOTIONAL RESCUE session to the (planning?) of 1981 tour when Mick had enough of Keith, and made the decision - consciously or not - of the non-Keith-dependent future, and once made, there was no coming back. Jagger, if anyone, seems to be the kind of guy who does not look back or 'rethink' decisions. You once lost him, you will lost him for good. It is like he sings in the first composition he made solely by himself, "Who wants Yesterday's Papers, Who wants yesterday's girl?"...
If one wants to cynical, Keith can be considered one of those people Mick once found 'useful' for his career, but who, after the use running out, was thrown away. Gomelsky, Oldham, Brian Jones... I don't think the reality is so cruel or simple but I think that by the end of the 70's - especially having had a huge success with SOME GIRLS that was very much Mick's brain child artistically, and then having finished another huge seller, TATTOO YOU, just by himself - he felt strong or independent enough to make a career without Keith (that is, actually, Stones). Or it could be also that Mick didn't respect Keith's intuitions and musical compass any longer, and he had seen how much damage the dope had made to this once incredibly creative guy. He didn't artistically needed Keith any longer (I think the reason why Keith was so much tolareted during the early-mid 70's was that he, in the end, was the musical heart of the band, and the others, including Mick, needed him for that. It wasn't any charity. But by the early 80's the things had dramatically changed.)
- Doxa
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Fan Since 1964
Leave if you want to!
Leave in peace!
I won't miss you but I'll certainly miss the greatest rock and roll band on earth!
But Mick you aint never gonna be bigger than the Rolling Stones!
So leave in peace!
Your obsession with that 1 quote is nothing short of amazing. Why don't you do a documentary on the size of Mick's penis.Quote
proudmaryQuote
DandelionPowderman
Still, as a journalist myself, I find it very interesting how much of this crap (I'm thinking about the huge amount of very thin stories - often pure re-hashing - about the Mick and Keith-war) we actually trust and take as the truth as soon as they appear in the media.
Well, I'm a documentary filmmaker- the field close to journalism - so I see what you mean. But my point was that all that Mick's cock'n'balls BS brought Richards a lot of money. What, in fact, was his main intention. Well, and the opportunity to laugh at the expense of Mick ( the pleasure he has never denied)
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Green Lady
I've been feeling much the same about Mick's attitude while listening to Super Heavy, and hearing how much Mick is clearly enjoying himself. Mick has always listened to all the new stuff, and being the brilliant mimic that he is, if he likes something, he thinks "I'd like to have a go at doing that..." And he does - all the way from singing La Bamba in mock-Spanish as a teenager to rapping in Sanskrit as a pensioner. And enjoys it very much - until the next new thing comes along that he'd like to try.
This has been very good for the Stones over the years - but it does mean that "yesterday's papers" get left behind, unless they are so commercially successful that they can't be ignored. For a long time, it was the music he and Keith made with the Stones that inspired him - and so they have been one of the most stylistically varied and innovative bands ever. But Mick seems to have come to regard working with the Stones as a kind of musical strait-jacket - a profitable one, but not really more than a tolerable way of earning the money to fund his
newer but less commercial musical adventures like SuperHeavy and his film projects. The Stones have nothing new to offer him now, and Mick lives for the new.
This won't stop. Sooner or later the next big thing after SuperHeavy will come along, and SH will land in the Yesterdays Papers bin.
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open-g
>>The Stone (Ronnie), now 64, said the band were looking forward to next year’s anniversary – and dismissed suggestions of a permanent rift between Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.
He said: “We are all looking forward to it; we do not know what it is. I said to them we owe it to ourselves and the people to do something. We are just... whatever, we will find a way.
“I wish I could say. We had a great meeting the other week and we all got on great.”
[www.birminghammail.net]
[www.iorr.org]
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open-g
>>The Stone (Ronnie), now 64, said the band were looking forward to next year’s anniversary – and dismissed suggestions of a permanent rift between Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.
He said: “We are all looking forward to it; we do not know what it is. I said to them we owe it to ourselves and the people to do something. We are just... whatever, we will find a way.
“I wish I could say. We had a great meeting the other week and we all got on great.”
[www.birminghammail.net]
[www.iorr.org]