I could just imagine mick sitting there picking out these three songs like he is doing everyone a big favor, typical just typical

No disagreement on that one, Tod! And the main reason why I've absolutely no interest in buying any of the other Universal remasters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-02 23:05 by Gazza.

either mick just does not care or he is completely unaware of the impact a bootleg series will have on true fans

I don't get it. 3 tracks? Of course I'll take and appreciate anything I can get, but there is so much more they could be putting out. So what if somethings not finished? Finished, unreleased Exile tracks are cool as hell...but what about rehearsals, outtakes, etc? Does Mick honestly believe the die hard fans (and lets face it, thats who is going to be buying this) dont want to hear that stuff?

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Gazza
No disagreement on that one! And the main reason why I've absolutely no interest in buying any of the other Universal remasters.

me neither. free downloading is sweet payback here! ;-) haha....

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deuce
I don't get it. 3 tracks? Of course I'll take and appreciate anything I can get, but there is so much more they could be putting out. So what if somethings not finished? Finished, unreleased Exile tracks are cool as hell...but what about rehearsals, outtakes, etc? Does Mick honestly believe the die hard fans (and lets face it, thats who is going to be buying this) dont want to hear that stuff?

It has been written in many places that Sir Mick is very image conscience and will not release anything he does not feel is perfect...the problem with outtakes, rehearsels etc. is you can't polish a turd so Sir Mick isn't going to authorize their release..

Plus I don't think he cares what the hardcore fans want...hasn't he proven that all these years?

he released ABB - that was not exactly perfrect

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oldschool
It has been written in many places that Sir Mick is very image conscience and will not release anything he does not feel is perfect...the problem with outtakes, rehearsels etc. is you can't polish a turd so Sir Mick isn't going to authorize their release..

not while he's alive, that is.

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StonesTod
he released ABB - that was not exactly perfrect

That is your perception but Sir Mick obviously felt otherwise........

I am totally excited about 3 new Exile tracks. Sounds fantastic. I think some folks here are too precious about there bootlegs. People are excited about the new (?) songs while being pissed off they never heard them before, meanwhile guarding their bootlegs like the rest of the music world arent supposed to hear them

I'm guessing we'll get a disc that has just the three unreleased songs on it (and nothing else), another disc that has an alternate version of Tumbling Dice on it (and nothing else), another disc that has a live version of Tumbling Dice on it (and nothing else), and a DVD that has an edited version of the same live performance of Tumbling Dice on it (and nothing else).

if that!

When we can't even get re-issues of long lost b - sides and singles how do you expect a CD full of outtakes and from one album, nonetheless? We have at least 4 official issues of the majority of the catalogue spanning from 71 onwards, but we have been given only one sad attempt at releasing actual hard to find tracks.

If you expect a full CD of outtakes you need to wake up and smell the coffee. We will never get an intentional official release of either Exile On Main Street Blues and (even more so) Cocksu*ker Blues. I think it's mutually agreed that everyone wants an official release of the lost '72 live album and Ladies And Gentleman, though sadly neither of these are likely to happen either.

IF WE GET ANY OF THE STUFF I MENTIONED IT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE SOME SETTLEMENT BETWEEN THE STONES AND THE KLEINS HAS HAPPENED.

Sadly, I don't see this happening. I think Mick and the boys gave up on this dream many decades ago.

you're complaining and it's not even released. come on ;-)
I'm very excited about those three tracks. now we've gotta wait...

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Amused
you're complaining and it's not even released. come on ;-)
I'm very excited about those three tracks. now we've gotta wait...

Ya Ya's All Over Again...

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Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

They left "Criss Cross" off of Goat's Head Soup and put "Dancing With Mr D" on it instead. That blows a hole in this argument...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-03 04:13 by Spodlumt.

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chenry9195
When we can't even get re-issues of long lost b - sides and singles how do you expect a CD full of outtakes and from one album, nonetheless? We have at least 4 official issues of the majority of the catalogue spanning from 71 onwards, but we have been given only one sad attempt at releasing actual hard to find tracks.

If you expect a full CD of outtakes you need to wake up and smell the coffee. We will never get an intentional official release of either Exile On Main Street Blues and (even more so) Cocksu*ker Blues. I think it's mutually agreed that everyone wants an official release of the lost '72 live album and Ladies And Gentleman, though sadly neither of these are likely to happen either.

IF WE GET ANY OF THE STUFF I MENTIONED IT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE SOME SETTLEMENT BETWEEN THE STONES AND THE KLEINS HAS HAPPENED.

Sadly, I don't see this happening. I think Mick and the boys gave up on this dream many decades ago.

Jody Klein's interview with Dean Goodman in the latest issue of IORR would suggest that there's been a lot more co-operation between the Stones and ABKCO in recent years than many would like to believe.

Considering they managed to bury the hatchet and come together to give us 40 Licks (something which at the time surprised everyone as no one really saw that release coming), I dont think its implausible to think that they'd be able to iron out a few differences for this release.

'@#$%& Blues' will simply never get an official release - for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with ABKCO.

The 1972 live album wasnt released simply because of the fact that ABKCO had control of the pre-1971 songs under an agreement that expired in, I think, 1977. There hasnt been any legal reason to prevent the Stones from releasing that album since then - they havent done so simply because by then the recordings were five years old and there was no market for archive concert releases for a long time afterwards. They had no problem in releasing live performances of several ABKCO-era songs on 'Love You Live', which came out in 1977 or at any time since.

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Spodlumt
Quote:
Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

They left "Criss Cross" off of Goat's Head Soup and put "Dancing With Mr D" on it instead. That blows a hole in this argument...

More Support:

Lies instead of Claudine

Fingerprint File (full length [live and studio]) as opposed to the shit edits of this shitty song we were given in there place. [I like it, but it honestly is shit.]

Where the Boys Go instead of Not the Way to Go

Can't Believe was never released (all of Aftermath is great except I Am Waiting and What To Do which are good)

Sweet Hearts Together instead of Zip Mouth Angel



The Stones have made several bad choices over the years.

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Gazza

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chenry9195
When we can't even get re-issues of long lost b - sides and singles how do you expect a CD full of outtakes and from one album, nonetheless? We have at least 4 official issues of the majority of the catalogue spanning from 71 onwards, but we have been given only one sad attempt at releasing actual hard to find tracks.

If you expect a full CD of outtakes you need to wake up and smell the coffee. We will never get an intentional official release of either Exile On Main Street Blues and (even more so) Cocksu*ker Blues. I think it's mutually agreed that everyone wants an official release of the lost '72 live album and Ladies And Gentleman, though sadly neither of these are likely to happen either.

IF WE GET ANY OF THE STUFF I MENTIONED IT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE SOME SETTLEMENT BETWEEN THE STONES AND THE KLEINS HAS HAPPENED.

Sadly, I don't see this happening. I think Mick and the boys gave up on this dream many decades ago.

Jody Klein's interview with Dean Goodman in the latest issue of IORR would suggest that there's been a lot more co-operation between the Stones and ABKCO in recent years than many would like to believe.

Considering they managed to bury the hatchet and come together to give us 40 Licks (something which at the time surprised everyone as no one really saw that release coming), I dont think its implausible to think that they'd be able to iron out a few differences for this release.

'@#$%& Blues' will simply never get an official release - for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with ABKCO.

The 1972 live album wasnt released simply because of the fact that ABKCO had control of the pre-1971 songs under an agreement that expired in, I think, 1977. There hasnt been any legal reason to prevent the Stones from releasing that album since then - they havent done so simply because by then the recordings were five years old and there was no market for archive concert releases for a long time afterwards. They had no problem in releasing live performances of several ABKCO-era songs on 'Love You Live', which came out in 1977 or at any time since.

ABKCO owns the rights to Coc*sucker Blues they would never release it. It isn't even in a state that it should be released unless if there's a more finished version than the available bootleg.

As far as I know Robert Frank 'owns' the rights.

The bootleg IS the finished movie.

However, regardless of who owns it, the Stones didnt allow the movie to be distributed when it came out, and there isnt a chance in hell they're going to allow it to be distributed now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-03 04:39 by Gazza.

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chenry9195

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Spodlumt
Quote:
Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

They left "Criss Cross" off of Goat's Head Soup and put "Dancing With Mr D" on it instead. That blows a hole in this argument...

More Support:

Lies instead of Claudine

Fingerprint File (full length [live and studio]) as opposed to the shit edits of this shitty song we were given in there place. [I like it, but it honestly is shit.]

Where the Boys Go instead of Not the Way to Go

Can't Believe was never released (all of Aftermath is great except I Am Waiting and What To Do which are good)

Sweet Hearts Together instead of Zip Mouth Angel



The Stones have made several bad choices over the years.

I said 'generally' - not exclusively. So, one song doesnt 'blow a hole' (did they actually drop 'Criss Cross' specifically for 'Dancing With Mr D'?).

Claudine wasnt released because it was litigious. It still IS litigious.

'Not The Way to Go' isnt even a finished song, for goodness sake. Neither is 'Zip Mouth Angel' based on the bootlegged version. Now if youd said 'Honest Man' instead...they really should have released THAT one.

'Get Yourself Together' (or 'Cant Believe' as its been often bootlegged) isnt an 'Aftermath' outtake, but was recorded for 'Between the Buttons'. Certainly releasable material, though.

Edits for live albums are a different thing entirely. I specifically meant studio albums.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-03 05:06 by Gazza.

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Gazza
As far as I know Robert Frank 'owns' the rights.

The bootleg IS the finished movie.

However, regardless of who owns it, the Stones didnt allow the movie to be distributed when it came out, and there isnt a chance in hell they're going to allow it to be distributed now.

So if the Stones own the rights to all the 1972 tour live audio tapes does anyone know who owns the rights to Ladies and Gentlemen video? According to, the not always reliable, Wikapedia it is claimed that the Stones regained the rights in the 1990's

"The Rolling Stones re-claimed the film from No Moss Partners, the original investment limited partnership in the late 90s, and "Ladies and Gentlemen..." has not been seen since."

[en.wikipedia.org]

So based on the above it seems if the Stones and the Klein estate come to some kind of accomodation there is no reason the Exile Deluxe edition can't at least have some live 72 audio and the L&G video...does this make sense or am I missing a piece to this complex puzzle?

No way they've held a disc back for a year to add 3 tracks to it.

We are leaving out one reason Sir Mick doesn't want old (particularly live) material released: The Stones are still a going concern, and he does not want to put the old version of the band against the current one. It's a crime that for live versions of certain songs we have to settle for Love You Live and later live albums, while the '72 "lost" live album exists, as do soundboard recordings for '73, which contain the greatest live versions of Tumbling Dice, YCAGWYW, and other songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-03 05:50 by 71Tele.

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studiorambo
No way they've held a disc back for a year to add 3 tracks to it.

If, and thats still a BIG "if", it is really the case that these 3 tracks are all we will get theres only one explanation after all this ballyhoo for the Exile remaster, holding it back, postponing it again and again, and this is pure economics: The multi-disc project is cancelled because of the disappointing sales of the UMG remasters so far.

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Gazza

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chenry9195

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Spodlumt
Quote:
Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

They left "Criss Cross" off of Goat's Head Soup and put "Dancing With Mr D" on it instead. That blows a hole in this argument...

More Support:

Lies instead of Claudine

Fingerprint File (full length [live and studio]) as opposed to the shit edits of this shitty song we were given in there place. [I like it, but it honestly is shit.]

Where the Boys Go instead of Not the Way to Go

Can't Believe was never released (all of Aftermath is great except I Am Waiting and What To Do which are good)

Sweet Hearts Together instead of Zip Mouth Angel



The Stones have made several bad choices over the years.

I said 'generally' - not exclusively. So, one song doesnt 'blow a hole' (did they actually drop 'Criss Cross' specifically for 'Dancing With Mr D'?).

Claudine wasnt released because it was litigious. It still IS litigious.

'Not The Way to Go' isnt even a finished song, for goodness sake. Neither is 'Zip Mouth Angel' based on the bootlegged version. Now if youd said 'Honest Man' instead...they really should have released THAT one.

'Get Yourself Together' (or 'Cant Believe' as its been often bootlegged) isnt an 'Aftermath' outtake, but was recorded for 'Between the Buttons'. Certainly releasable material, though.

Edits for live albums are a different thing entirely. I specifically meant studio albums.

As this article points out, bootlegger's don't own everything, so there may very well be completely mixed versions of the above mentioned songs. Also, as I may point out the Stones were the POSTER CHILDREN OF DRUGS IN 1972. Mick can tolerate a little imperfection (Far Away Eyes from Shine A Light), but I have a feeling there are certain treats in the vault where not only do Mick or the guys not remember writing/recording it, but they don't know what the F@ck Mick was trying to say. I can guarantee Mick's slur problem wasn't limited to the stage.

I hope the great lost album mix is released this time around.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-03 06:14 by chenry9195.

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71Tele
We are leaving out one reason Sir Mick doesn't want old (particularly live) material released: The Stones are still a going concern, and he does not want to put the old version of the band against the current one. It's a crime that for live versions of certain songs we have to settle for Love You Live and later live albums, while the '72 "lost" live album exists, as do soundboard recordings for '73, which contain the greatest live versions of Tumbling Dice, YCAGWYW, and other songs.

cmon dylan, bruce, neil young are still going concerns and they have done it, thats no excuse

Is this worth buying?? Never heard of it, sorry...
[cgi.ebay.de]

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NICOS

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StonesTod
gimme all the squeaks and farts and everything they did from this era; i won't complain...

Neither would I, I even love to hear them tuning their guitars mixed with that "irritating" drumming from charlie in the background

I'm with StonesTod and NICOS!

3 new songs is extremely exciting (to me).

Would love any outtakes, alternate takes, starts, stops, banter, bicker, jokes, chatter, botched lyrics. Whatever!


What's anyone's guess about the DVD?

I'm trying to keep expectations low...but my guess is the DVD will simply be a slideshow of Nellcôte stills we've mostly already seen. A dream come true would be to see some of the famous stills of Nellcôte "come to life" in the way the Exile cover shots did last month when the Robert Frank Super 8 film clips were posted here! Like Gram Parsons and Keith at the piano. Mick and Keith sitting on the floor. Clowning at the table. Jamming in the basement. Really any kind of "home movies" or otherwise would be brilliant.

They must know what they're putting on the set now, so why not announce it fully? If L&G doesn't form part of it, I don't see how they will ever put it out. It has limited commercial appeal on it's own, not being particularly well filmed by todays standards.

Hear the album, see the tour.