Gazza you wrote :

Even if thats the only three unreleased songs, I'm sure there would be several alternate versions of the songs that WERE released.

Don Was mixed a lot of material from the exile sessions. I'm sure many in Hollywood (Courtney Love) already heard a lot from this. As I recall, a poster on iorr told us from a party in Hollywood where 5 or 6 (!) alternate versions from Tumbling Dice were played (from the material Don Was mixed I presume)
I do not expect all 6 versions from TD on the new deluxe version but at least some of it, and more alternate versions from the other songs as I have no doubt those were mixed too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-02 18:12 by barbabang.

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drewmaster

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HighwireC
You can buy it here:

[www.amazon.com]

This is very odd. No mention of the aforementioned 3 "unreleased songs", but, after the 18 Exile tracks it lists 19. Rocks Off 20. Happy 21. Tumbling Dice. Perhaps the 3 "unreleased songs" are just early versions (with working titles) of these songs?? Doesn't quite make sense, though, because I though Keith came up with Happy very quickly.

Drew

Its a bootleg.

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barbabang
Gazza you wrote :

Even if thats the only three unreleased songs, I'm sure there would be several alternate versions of the songs that WERE released.

Don Was mixed a lot of material from the exile sessions. I'm sure many in Hollywood (Courtney Love) already heard a lot from this. As I recall, a poster on iorr told us from a party in Hollywood where 5 or 6 (!) alternate versions from Tumbling Dice were played (from the material Don Was mixed I presume)
I do not expect all 6 versions from TD on the new deluxe version but at least some of it, and more alternate versions from the other songs as I have no doubt those were mixed too.

Quite correct

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Rik
more then 3 songs!
I expected a box yaya's,

but ok, we will see,

I'd expect something similar, Rik

Along the lines of :

1) Remaster of the original album
2) Audio CD of outtakes, alternate takes etc
3) DVD

I know some people love the outtakes, but I just don't really care about them. If they were completed songs, then yes, I'd be happy about them, but half finished outtakes and alternate takes of songs we already have, I'm not crazy about. I'd buy it anyway, but I'd much rather have the unreleased live album from '72 and/or a dvd.

Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more. Their appeal wanes the minute they get officially released.

Alternate versions of a great album are certainly worth releasing if the versions are, in themselves, of a standard worthy of release. I think its reasonable to expect that pretty much everygood song the band has released (or any band for that matter) would have at least one alternate take or alternate arrangement which is interesting enough to merit a release.

These should be included in the outtakes/alternates disc:

@#$%& Blues
Leather Jacket
Good Time Women
Travellin´ Man
Aladdin Story
I Ain´t Signifying
some of the instrumentals (Potted Shrimps etc.)
and early takes like the acoustic All Down The Line

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Tumblin_Dice_07
I know some people love the outtakes, but I just don't really care about them. If they were completed songs, then yes, I'd be happy about them, but half finished outtakes and alternate takes of songs we already have, I'm not crazy about. I'd buy it anyway, but I'd much rather have the unreleased live album from '72 and/or a dvd.

You hit the nail on the head Tumblin, if the vaults are bare with respect to alterante versions or unreleased songs how about coming to terms with the Klein Estate and releasing the lost 72 tour live album as a bonus cd or cds.....Even better how about a bonus DVD with a clean print of Ladies and Gentlemen??

Depending on who owns the rights to the film this may not be possible but that would be a great package!!

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Gazza

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Rik
more then 3 songs!
I expected a box yaya's,

but ok, we will see,

I'd expect something similar, Rik

Along the lines of :

1) Remaster of the original album
2) Audio CD of outtakes, alternate takes etc
3) DVD

Yeah, I had the same image

but I haven't listened to the 2009 Exile remaster, so I hope the 2010 will be a bit more special..

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Gazza
Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more. Their appeal wanes the minute they get officially released.

Alternate versions of a great album are certainly worth releasing if the versions are, in themselves, of a standard worthy of release. I think its reasonable to expect that pretty much everygood song the band has released (or any band for that matter) would have at least one alternate take or alternate arrangement which is interesting enough to merit a release.

I happen to agree with you Gazza but based on many bootlegs of outtakes and unfinished songs there are out there I would say we may be in the minority....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-02 19:27 by oldschool.

The name Sophia Loren for a Stones track has been known since at least 73/74, when it was mentioned by Jimmy Miller. Since then most Stones books (First 20 years, Carr etc.) have mentioned the name.

Of course we can never expect more than 3 full blown finished songs,but we know from other sessions that there must be loads and loads of half finished songs and covers. From '69 to '83 there must be at least 100 songs that I wouldn't mind seeing being released on some kind of Anthology box set.

Mathijs

Not much comment yet on how they will deal the main album. And that's what it's supposed to be all about right?

Will this be another rehashed digi version (a remaster of a remaster) or a finely crafted update of the original vinyl? I have just made a new new rip from a clean vinyl copy. It really sounds great to my ears, and has never been bettered on CD, IMHO. So I hope they just stick with the original. But having read that MJ was never keen on that one, maybe it will be a completely new mix.

As far as the bonus tracks are concerned, I agree with Gazza. If there is only going to be a single CD (of course, a 2 disc set would be great, but I'm not holding my breath), then at least the 3 tracks have never seen the light of day before.

Three songs?
And Dylan fans complain about the "Bootleg Series" CDs. If Jeff Rosen came to work on the Stones vaults we would kiss his feet (or other parts of his anatomy) ><

A strong contender for the "disappointment of 2010" award?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-01-02 19:23 by dcba.

i can see 3 bonus songs being on one cd alone. hell, i won't be surprised if the stones put the intro to a song on one cd, the verse onto another cd, and the chorus on a 3rd just to make more money.

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oldschool
Even better how about a bonus DVD with a clean print of Ladies and Gentlemen??

Depending on who owns the rights to the film this may not be possible but that would be a great package!!

Sorry, but you can stop dreaming.
Unfortunately, the DVD part will be a "brand new documentary".
(cf last summer news from french fan club, generally very well informed people)

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Rik

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Gazza

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Rik
more then 3 songs!
I expected a box yaya's,

but ok, we will see,

I'd expect something similar, Rik

Along the lines of :

1) Remaster of the original album
2) Audio CD of outtakes, alternate takes etc
3) DVD

Yeah, I had the same image

but I haven't listened to the 2009 Exile remaster, so I hope the 2010 will be a bit more special..

Neither has anyone else, Rik. They didnt release one!

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bernardanderson
i can see 3 bonus songs being on one cd alone. hell, i won't be surprised if the stones put the intro to a song on one cd, the verse onto another cd, and the chorus on a 3rd just to make more money.

So you think they will make more money (ie sell more units to the general punter) from a more expensive multi-disc set than from a single disc?

My guess is that there has been an economic decision to only release a single disc, and the 3 bonus tracks are all that will fit on that one disc (original 18 tracks = about 65 mins, leaving 15 mins for bonus tracks).

But I really would love to be proved wrong.

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dcba
Three songs?
And Dylan fans complain about the "Bootleg Series" CDs. If Jeff Rosen came to work on the Stones vaults we would kiss his feet (or other parts of his anatomy) ><

A strong contender for the "disappointment of 2010" award?

If Dylan fans see fit to complain about the Bootleg Series, then they're strong contenders for any rock n roll 'Spoilt Bastard' awards.

There's a huge difference with what Jeff Rosen had to work with and what anyone ploughing the Stones archives is likely to be faced with.

Dylan was generally more prolific as a writer - especially in the early 60s - and his studio ethic was very different to that of the Stones. I think in the first 20 years of his career, Dylan barely spent 90 days in a recording studio. He generally would work on songs pretty quickly and if they werent finished in a few takes in the studio, he'd move on to something else. The Stones, by contrast, spend months at a time in the studio grinding songs out and gradually developing riffs/grooves into something coherent and with the lyrics rarely finalised until pretty late in the proceedings.

Concert archives of course would be a different story. Oh to be given access to that material and to be given carte blanche to do something with it.

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oldschool

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Gazza
Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more. Their appeal wanes the minute they get officially released.

Alternate versions of a great album are certainly worth releasing if the versions are, in themselves, of a standard worthy of release. I think its reasonable to expect that pretty much everygood song the band has released (or any band for that matter) would have at least one alternate take or alternate arrangement which is interesting enough to merit a release.

I happen to agree with you Gazza but based on many bootlegs of outtakes and unfinished songs there are out there I would say we may be in the minority....

Its a classic case of the appeal of forbidden fruit. A lot of the enthusiasm for much of whats been bootlegged from Stones studio sessions down the years is based on the fact that we're not supposed to be hearing it in the first place. Yet if these songs and specifically the bootlegged versions of them had been released 'as is' on official Stones studio albums down the years the band would have justifiably been ripped to shreds for it. I've seen people actually argue, for example, that stuff like 'No Spare Parts' should have been on 'Some Girls' - based solely on the evidence of a bootleg recording where the lyrics are obviously unfinished and the vocal is hopelessly out of tune, and despite the fact that theres nothing to suggest that a final completed take was ever done.

Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

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Tropical_Disease
"The long awaited remastering of the rolling stones' 1972 masterpiece will be released on april 12, including three previously unreleased songs from the Exile sessions: "Following the river", "Plunder my soul" and "Sophia Loren"

To get back to the original post in this thread, its actually a good sign, as far as the prospect of future archives releases are concerned, that there are two unreleased songs here which were not only finished and deemed releasable, but whose very existence has until now been totally unheard of. 'Sophia Loren' is a nice bonus as well, being a song whose existence has been known, but which has never circulated in any form.

As far as I read about this project they planned 8 tracks on
a second disc. Good Time Woman one of them. Now we know three
more titles and should be excited that there will be three *new
and unheard* tracks, instead of alternate takes only. (We all knew
before that there weren't much leftovers from the Exile-sessions).

N

what happened to the dvd? it took all this time to pick three tracks, are u kidding me?

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Gazza
Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more.

there are rules to this? gimme all the squeaks and farts and everything they did from this era; i won't complain...

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melillo
what happened to the dvd? it took all this time to pick three tracks, are u kidding me?

don wasn't....working very quickly....

...and the "exile in main street blues" from the NME FLEXI... excellent track....
which would be in the right place at the beginning...

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StonesTod

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Gazza
Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more.

there are rules to this? gimme all the squeaks and farts and everything they did from this era; i won't complain...

Neither would I, I even love to hear them tuning their guitars mixed with that "irritating" drumming from charlie in the background

__________________________

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melillo
what happened to the dvd? it took all this time to pick three tracks, are u kidding me?

No ones mentioned that there isnt a DVD and theres nothing to suggest that the additional audio material will be limited to three songs.

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Gazza

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oldschool

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Gazza
Half finished songs belong on bootlegs. Nothing more. Their appeal wanes the minute they get officially released.

Alternate versions of a great album are certainly worth releasing if the versions are, in themselves, of a standard worthy of release. I think its reasonable to expect that pretty much everygood song the band has released (or any band for that matter) would have at least one alternate take or alternate arrangement which is interesting enough to merit a release.

I happen to agree with you Gazza but based on many bootlegs of outtakes and unfinished songs there are out there I would say we may be in the minority....

Its a classic case of the appeal of forbidden fruit. A lot of the enthusiasm for much of whats been bootlegged from Stones studio sessions down the years is based on the fact that we're not supposed to be hearing it in the first place. Yet if these songs and specifically the bootlegged versions of them had been released 'as is' on official Stones studio albums down the years the band would have justifiably been ripped to shreds for it. I've seen people actually argue, for example, that stuff like 'No Spare Parts' should have been on 'Some Girls' - based solely on the evidence of a bootleg recording where the lyrics are obviously unfinished and the vocal is hopelessly out of tune, and despite the fact that theres nothing to suggest that a final completed take was ever done.

Its to the Stones' credit that, based on what HAS circulated, down the years theyve generally exercised good judgement on what to include on their official albums and what to leave off.

generally agree with you, mate - not on this....you're giving the stones CREDIT for not opening the vaults? they haven't opened them for the finished songs, either, so not sure how they get credit for keeping the unfinished ones sealed and vaulted....

No. I'm giving them credit for their song choices on their studio albums.

A vaults release would find the songs assessed and valued in a different way - as they are, namely outtakes and leftovers - rather than if they had been included on the original albums in the first place.

alright. but, let's remember that they remain the only band/act of their generation (not to mention generations of bands that followed)....to NOT open the vaults AT ALL - nearly 50 years now after they started. EVERYONE else has treated their fans to additional studio material not originally included on studio albums in some form of packaging. EVERYONE. it's a disgrace, i tell ya....