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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

That's a good point. I think it's possible that Jagger brought songs originally planned for his follow-up to Primitive Cool and Keith brought leftovers from the TIC sessions, then they worked on previous Stones outtakes like Gangster's Moll and recorded a few new tracks in the studio. That combination resulted in SW.

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-07 18:49 by alimente.

And as part of the WW III armistice Mick gave Keef's good pal Steve Jordan a co-writing credit (and the tons of money that went with it).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-07 19:04 by dcba.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.

This is semantics. We don't disagree here.

EM did not include their best that was available. If it did, no TY. Who is to say what was left from 40 Licks sessions? The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-07 22:35 by deeppurple.

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deeppurple
The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.

Yup we had plenty of evidence of this from the Vigotone VL CDs. On these boots there was stuff that potentially could have shamed most of what was on the VL album...

As much as I like Keef I mean wtf is "Sparks Will Fly"? Easily the worst song KR ever penned.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-07 22:48 by dcba.

Sounds more like it was Mick who penned it? The "fire chief-line" is also to be found on Wandering Spirit! I just can't remember the occupation of there character in there, but the line is just as ridiculous

Speaking about cards, how many times have Mick laid his cards on the table?

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.

This is semantics. We don't disagree here.

Well, YOU asked if it was Keith who did the digging when someone mentioned it was Mick. And I replied "neither Keith nor Mick" - they have their people for digging in the vaults. Call it semantics or whatever, I prefer some accuracy here and there and the way I described it is how the Stones work, like it or not. But if you prefer the romantic picture of Mick or Keith checking dusty tape boxes and listening to hours and hours of session tapes, well, dream on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-08 02:01 by alimente.

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.

This is semantics. We don't disagree here.

I read that Keith put on TIC and excused himself. Came back later and caught Mick dancing to it.

Also, Rick Derringer said "not enough guitars" on TIC.

"No Anchovies, Please"

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dcba

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deeppurple
The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.

Yup we had plenty of evidence of this from the Vigotone VL CDs. On these boots there was stuff that potentially could have shamed most of what was on the VL album...

As much as I like Keef I mean wtf is "Sparks Will Fly"? Easily the worst song KR ever penned.

You forget Losing my touch and Infamy!!

"Infamy" is great... One man and his drummer, a few jazzy licks, I love that song!

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NICOS
The complete Nellcote basement tapes

I imagine complete would include hours of Keith snoring into the microphone....


I'd like to hear some of the studio talk that always gets recorded before and after takes and when the tape just keeps rolling "just in case" something magical happens. Insight into how the Stones interacted in the studio, who was calling the shots and how serious they were would be great to have. peace

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KRiffhard

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dcba

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deeppurple
The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.

Yup we had plenty of evidence of this from the Vigotone VL CDs. On these boots there was stuff that potentially could have shamed most of what was on the VL album...

As much as I like Keef I mean wtf is "Sparks Will Fly"? Easily the worst song KR ever penned.

You forget Losing my touch and Infamy!!

I agree, I think all those songs should have been cobbled together on a Keith solo album called Cheap Offender, where anyone wanting them is free to buy it but the rest of us then don't need to be programming our cd player or worse yet, picking up the tone arm and moving it to the next gap on the record.

...and just so the Keithists don't pile on me here, I'd advocate putting the most hated MJ songs on a solo album called "Wandering Doorway".

It's not as though their solo careers would suffer worse then they already have, and it would keep the Stones records at a higher quality.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.

This is semantics. We don't disagree here.

Well, YOU asked if it was Keith who did the digging when someone mentioned it was Mick. And I replied "neither Keith nor Mick" - they have their people for digging in the vaults. Call it semantics or whatever, I prefer some accuracy here and there and the way I described it is how the Stones work, like it or not. But if you prefer the romantic picture of Mick or Keith checking dusty tape boxes and listening to hours and hours of session tapes, well, dream on.

Hey, I don't disagree. But in this case (TIC) we know that they listened to it together, and there is a possibility they might have listened to the leftovers as well.

My "Keith did the digging-comment" was just humorous - as he probably didn't have lots of songs to choose from - and the fact that there wasn't really that much time between the TIC and SW-sessions.

So if Mick asked if he had any ballads, Keith would be able to answer that question right on the spot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-09 20:02 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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dcba
Imho as part of the WW III armistice Keef handed Mick a cassette with TIC outtakes/song ideas...
I don't see Kimsey (or much less Jagger going thru hours of 15in reels to find the "one" that could be added to SWheels).

+1

And we know Mick and Keith listened through Talk Is Cheap together. Mick even criticised it for being a bit drum heavy

Yeah, that's basically what I said. But guess who put this cassette together? It was either a cassette that was compiled immediately after the TIC sessions ended at Keith's request (to have something to remind him of usable stuff in the years to come) or it was compiled (again at Keith's request) by someone with a good ear and musical judgement. Forget the idea that either Mick or Keith trawl their way through hours and hours of session tapes to find a lost treasure.

This is semantics. We don't disagree here.

Well, YOU asked if it was Keith who did the digging when someone mentioned it was Mick. And I replied "neither Keith nor Mick" - they have their people for digging in the vaults. Call it semantics or whatever, I prefer some accuracy here and there and the way I described it is how the Stones work, like it or not. But if you prefer the romantic picture of Mick or Keith checking dusty tape boxes and listening to hours and hours of session tapes, well, dream on.

Hey, I don't disagree. But in this case (TIC) we know that they listened to it together, and there is a possibility they might have listened to the leftovers as well.

My "Keith did the digging-comment" was just humorous - as he probably didn't have lots of songs to choose from - and the fact that there wasn't really that much time between the TIC and SW-sessions.

So if Mick asked if he had any ballads, Keith would be able to answer that question right on the spot.

I loathe all this antisemantic talk.

One of the holy grails is EL MOCAMBO 1977 ofcourse.
I was listening to the El Mocambo (incomplete show as usual) bootleg CD today since a long time... Great songs and so loose.
I think a lot of people would complain about Mick's 77 vocals on WORRIED ABOUT YOU if he'd deliver such a performance today. Saying things like he is too old and can't do it anymore, they better stop performing etc.
In 1977 he's a bit hoarse and can't reach the falsetto at all, not perfect at all like in 2013/14, but fascinating because of the historical significance.
Real dirty songs like DANCE LITTLE SISTER, HAND OF FATE, ROUTE 66 make this a great show to release officialy.

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OutOfTime
One of the holy grails is EL MOCAMBO 1977 of course.

Maybe for us? But it may bring Jagger to the absolute nadir of the band's career. Keef's arrest, the band under the risk of implosion, the trmendous pressure, the Mounties, the taped phones, the -paranoia...
Reda Flippo's bok for a 1st-hand tale of these dark days. Even today it gives you chills.

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Naturalust

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NICOS
The complete Nellcote basement tapes

I imagine complete would include hours of Keith snoring into the microphone....

Probably or even likely, but there's also stuff like the Can I Get A Witness-warmup as featured in the Stones In Exile-DVD, which sounds loose but great, and I surely want more of that!

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Naturalust

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NICOS
The complete Nellcote basement tapes

I imagine complete would include hours of Keith snoring into the microphone....

Snorting into the microphone?

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KRiffhard

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dcba

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deeppurple
The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.

Yup we had plenty of evidence of this from the Vigotone VL CDs. On these boots there was stuff that potentially could have shamed most of what was on the VL album...

As much as I like Keef I mean wtf is "Sparks Will Fly"? Easily the worst song KR ever penned.

You forget Losing my touch and Infamy!!

IAW Keefriffhard here. I hate those two songs. LMT especially. With "Infamy" I still think that all who like it get something that I am missing. I mean, even Jagger seems to get it. he has it closing the album.
But "Sparks" isnt all that abd musically;it s the words and vocxal that bury it.
I do believe that at this stage of their history the Stones would benefit GREATLY from introducing some knowledgeable hardcore fans into their studio and help them compile an awesome album of outtakes.
And I am not being infantile here, and dredging up most of our favorite dream scenario. When Jagger worked on Exile update he brought in soke of these guys. he should do it again.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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KRiffhard

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dcba

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deeppurple
The Stones are not the best judges of their own material.

Yup we had plenty of evidence of this from the Vigotone VL CDs. On these boots there was stuff that potentially could have shamed most of what was on the VL album...

As much as I like Keef I mean wtf is "Sparks Will Fly"? Easily the worst song KR ever penned.

You forget Losing my touch and Infamy!!

IAW Keefriffhard here. I hate those two songs. LMT especially. With "Infamy" I still think that all who like it get something that I am missing. I mean, even Jagger seems to get it. he has it closing the album.
But "Sparks" isnt all that abd musically;it s the words and vocxal that bury it.
I do believe that at this stage of their history the Stones would benefit GREATLY from introducing some knowledgeable hardcore fans into their studio and help them compile an awesome album of outtakes.
And I am not being infantile here, and dredging up most of our favorite dream scenario. When Jagger worked on Exile update he brought in soke of these guys. he should do it again.

Yep, but as far as I'm aware there are "knowledgable fans" with close contacts to the inner circle who make suggestions. In the end, it's the band, Mick that is, who makes final decisions concerning the choice of material. Some Girls Deluxe for example,the band knows that theres stuff like Fiji Jim, Misty Roads, I Need You and others, but they either see no potential in it or they keep it for the next round of "even more deluxe" releases.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-10 14:27 by alimente.

Some one needs to re-master the last few Stones album. Just lock Mick out of the studio.

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dcba

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OutOfTime
One of the holy grails is EL MOCAMBO 1977 of course.

Maybe for us? But it may bring Jagger to the absolute nadir of the band's career. Keef's arrest, the band under the risk of implosion, the trmendous pressure, the Mounties, the taped phones, the -paranoia...
Reda Flippo's bok for a 1st-hand tale of these dark days. Even today it gives you chills.

You are right, the article written in 1977 for RollingStone was really pessimistic, never the Rolling Stones future was so uncertain. But his second ElMocambo show review is outstanding. If a video exist, it must be something.

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dcba
"Infamy" is great... One man and his drummer, a few jazzy licks, I love that song!

I love it as well! Eggcellent groove.

I like "infamy" also. On the subject of rare releases I doubt The Stones worry too much about us few maniac fans. But maybe since they gained a few new fans this tour we'll see something. I hope so.

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frankotero
I like "infamy" also. On the subject of rare releases I doubt The Stones worry too much about us few maniac fans. But maybe since they gained a few new fans this tour we'll see something. I hope so.

The problem with standalone "rare" releases is that Greatest Hits compilations sell ten or even a hundred times better and require no additional studio work at that.

Unless they really want to do something for the diehard fans with no regard to actual sales, I can't see them bothering too much with such material other than for anniversaries - like the live archive downloads for their 50th.

They're even not that much in a hurry to release the deluxe Sticky Fingers!

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dcba
"Infamy" is great... One man and his drummer, a few jazzy licks, I love that song!

I just rewatched "Buena Vista Social Club" last night on TV and the 1st number was the beautiful "Chan Chan".
And it suddenly dawned on me "hey this song is made of ONE spare guitar lick, one simple intoxicating groove and nothing else..." JUST LIKE INFAMY!

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Palace Revolution 2000

But "Sparks" isnt all that abd musically;it s the words and vocxal that bury it.
I do believe that at this stage of their history the Stones would benefit GREATLY from introducing some knowledgeable hardcore fans into their studio and help them compile an awesome album of outtakes.
And I am not being infantile here, and dredging up most of our favorite dream scenario. When Jagger worked on Exile update he brought in soke of these guys. he should do it again.

Who did he bring in for Exile? All I've read so far is that Don Was trawled through stuff and tried to pick stuff that hadn't been bootlegged?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio