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Palace Revolution 2000
As great as Exile is. And it is IMO the greatest rock'n roll album of all time, I am not thrilled about the outtakes. Because I have seen that the outtakes are not that great. They used all the good stuff, and even that they had to rework heavily. Yes - Exile is supposed to be the album, that was recorded in the Nellcote basement, but all the real players have since told that most, most of the actual album that we hear was fashioned later in LA. Much writing, and basic direction and feel of course from Nellcote, and a good bit of basic trax. But over dubs, vocals, mixing was done in LA. Other basic tracks are from as early as 69 from other studios.
So "Good Time Women". "Bent Green Needles" acoustic ADTL or and endless rep of the rif cycle w/o vocals of "Let it Loose" is not that grand. I love outtakes; there's just not that much here.

No. There's just not that much thats been bootlegged. Significant difference. Considering its the Stones' best album and was recorded on and off over a period of about 3 years, its hardly reasonable to assume that a) youve heard the best of what there is in the vaults and b) that there arent some good versions of great songs out there.

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Turd On The Run

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Gazza
It's nitpicking. Especially when its regarding the MIXING of 40 year old recordings that werent meant to be released to begin with. As it's unlikely we'll be able to put the original personnel in a time machine to transport them back to 1972, it's utterly pointless to bitch about the mix of something we havent heard yet and which may not even be the same versions as a few good, but not great, sounding bootlegs that a few thousand people have. If it wasnt Don Was, it would be someone else at fault. Chuck Leavell must feel relieved he wasnt around that far back!

I can only imagine what the reaction would be if they actually DID sanction a multi disc archives release

It is not "nitpcking". We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. Exile on Main Street is like "The Godfather"...a visceral, murky, multi-layered and genre-defining work that has, with the passage of time, taken on mythical qualities and profound meaning to devotees and fans of all ages. This 'aint Def Leppard...the album is arguably the apotheosis of the dominant musical form of the late 20th Century.

Uh..we're NOT talking about Exile. We're talking about someone assembling a collection of cast offs and making them releasable. HUGE difference.

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NeddieFlanders
>We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. >Exile on Main Street is like "The Godfather"...

Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll.

N

they already did some years ago. A five disc boxed set featuring all three films plus a documentary.

I really don't mind if someone mixing the Exile Outtakes, we all "know" the originals, so if you don't like them don't listen to them.............

__________________________

dude its not about telling people if you dont like it dont listen, its about the hardcore fans wanting something interesting and different, whats wrong with that?

whatever it is, i could live without any dvd bonus material - almost never watch all the stones dvd's i have....

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melillo
dude its not about telling people if you dont like it dont listen, its about the hardcore fans wanting something interesting and different, whats wrong with that?

DUDE? melillo, it's NICOS who's talking.

I be back ......... I'm going to eat now

__________________________

ok DUDE

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Gazza

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Palace Revolution 2000
As great as Exile is. And it is IMO the greatest rock'n roll album of all time, I am not thrilled about the outtakes. Because I have seen that the outtakes are not that great. They used all the good stuff, and even that they had to rework heavily. Yes - Exile is supposed to be the album, that was recorded in the Nellcote basement, but all the real players have since told that most, most of the actual album that we hear was fashioned later in LA. Much writing, and basic direction and feel of course from Nellcote, and a good bit of basic trax. But over dubs, vocals, mixing was done in LA. Other basic tracks are from as early as 69 from other studios.
So "Good Time Women". "Bent Green Needles" acoustic ADTL or and endless rep of the rif cycle w/o vocals of "Let it Loose" is not that grand. I love outtakes; there's just not that much here.

No. There's just not that much thats been bootlegged. Significant difference. Considering its the Stones' best album and was recorded on and off over a period of about 3 years, its hardly reasonable to assume that a) youve heard the best of what there is in the vaults and b) that there arent some good versions of great songs out there.

Gazza, I know you the Bossman, and I always salute your Stones knowledge ( and I ma not saying this facetiously), but I just don't agree with this one. We all have a fairly good idea of their calendar, what they worked on; at least what songs have been kicked around. Over 30 years of interviews with bandmembers, engineers, producers,friends - we know that there is not a bunch of gems we have never even heard of from the Exile sessions. We also know that the Exile sessions - the ones from Nellcote - are part of rock'n roll legend; but it is more the trappings, thew dope, the hanger ons. Andy Johns. Taylor, Jagger, Wyman have said at various times that Nellcote per se actually was very difficult. Problems with guitars out of tune, speed problems, and difficulty getting things done. What did get done was brilliant but we know that. We have that. And what was workable Jagger, Miller and Keith worked up in LA. Would we not have heard just once from one insider involved "And yes - we also left some motherf*ckers on the cutting floor; you would not believe this stuff!" Never have we heard this said. Matter of fact they used the keepers from 2 years before, and used the good leftovers on GHS.
I believe in the vaults; I think we could gte a lot of superb stuff. I am not that convinced about Exile though.
Now maybe different mixes...

We'll sort of find out when Exile comes back out again won't we.

Palace - I'm not suggesting there are shitloads of great unreleased SONGS in the vaults from that era. I've heard or read nothing to suggest that. However, I'm talking specifically about interesting and releasable alternate versions of the songs that WERE released. Eg, I think its reasonable to think there's a very good version of "Rocks Off" in there or a particularly intriguing take of "Soul Survivor" or "Let It Loose" etc. Doesn't specifically have to be from the Nellcote sessions, could be from Olympic Studios in 1970 or even an alternate mix or take that was finished in 1972 and left off for another version when it came to deciding on the final selections.

I dont see why a CD of this kind of stuff - with maybe a couple of outtakes that WERE good enough (maybe there's a version of 'Travellin' Man' with a finished vocal?) - isnt feasible.

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Gazza
Palace - I'm not suggesting there are shitloads of great unreleased SONGS in the vaults from that era. I've heard or read nothing to suggest that. However, I'm talking specifically about interesting and releasable alternate versions of the songs that WERE released. Eg, I think its reasonable to think there's a very good version of "Rocks Off" in there or a particularly intriguing take of "Soul Survivor" or "Let It Loose" etc. Doesn't specifically have to be from the Nellcote sessions, could be from Olympic Studios in 1970 or even an alternate mix or take that was finished in 1972 and left off for another version when it came to deciding on the final selections.

I dont see why a CD of this kind of stuff - with maybe a couple of outtakes that WERE good enough (maybe there's a version of 'Travellin' Man' with a finished vocal?) - isnt feasible.

There supposed to be a Rocks Off version with Keith on lead vocals!

I would love to hear an alternate version of Rocks Off with Keith on vocals.... or anything to do with Let It Loose or Soul Survivor.

While Exile outtakes would be fun, I'd prefer "Ya-Ya's" extra tracks.

This board spends years complaining about the lack of new Stones output from the archive then moans when it possibly is going to be released....

Priceless!

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Lil' Brian
While Exile outtakes would be fun, I'd prefer "Ya-Ya's" extra tracks.

Agreed...would LOVE complete SBDs of those MSG '69 shows...

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StonesFanatic

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Lil' Brian
While Exile outtakes would be fun, I'd prefer "Ya-Ya's" extra tracks.

Agreed...would LOVE complete SBDs of those MSG '69 shows...

Yeah, the real dynamite lies in the Stones' live output (from before '81). I don't think any Exile outtakes can really touch their best live performances from '69-73. I'm hoping so much that there will be a '72 live DVD with this Exile release, and in any case that the Stones release some live archive releases in the near future.

I would buy ANYTHING and EVERYTHING live they released from the '69-'73 period that we don't already have...provided they don't butcher it with edits to make the bootlegs indispensable...

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ablett
This board spends years complaining about the lack of new Stones output from the archive then moans when it possibly is going to be released....

Priceless!

Absolutely. As I was one of those people spending years complaining about the lack of new Stones output from the archive I like to make my point clear that at the moment, I care a shit about what they release from the archives, whos mixing it and whatever - no, Im just happy that the ball starts rolling as it seems!

A message to Universal: Whatever youre preparing for us fans in this very moment - get the shit out in the streets as quick as possible before Jagger thinks twice...

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slasausjes

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Gazza
Palace - I'm not suggesting there are shitloads of great unreleased SONGS in the vaults from that era. I've heard or read nothing to suggest that. However, I'm talking specifically about interesting and releasable alternate versions of the songs that WERE released. Eg, I think its reasonable to think there's a very good version of "Rocks Off" in there or a particularly intriguing take of "Soul Survivor" or "Let It Loose" etc. Doesn't specifically have to be from the Nellcote sessions, could be from Olympic Studios in 1970 or even an alternate mix or take that was finished in 1972 and left off for another version when it came to deciding on the final selections.

I dont see why a CD of this kind of stuff - with maybe a couple of outtakes that WERE good enough (maybe there's a version of 'Travellin' Man' with a finished vocal?) - isnt feasible.

There supposed to be a Rocks Off version with Keith on lead vocals!

I thought it was 'Rip This Joint' actually. Anyway, I'd imagine it was pretty much embryonic and hardly worth releasing.

"no, Im just happy that the ball starts rolling as it seems!"

And the exact problem is?

Don Was mixing?

Is it REALLY that big a deal?

Shouldn't you be thankfully that the ball is at least beginning to roll (although there's no official word yet??) if its not EXACTLY what you want???

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ablett
This board spends years complaining about the lack of new Stones output from the archive then moans when it possibly is going to be released....

Priceless!

Yep, although in fairness its not the same people doing both.

I've long criticised them for not touching their archives, but I'm personally delighted at this move if it comes off. Some people however wont be happy unless they're personally chosen to do the whole thing themselves.

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alimente
Absolutely. As I was one of those people spending years complaining about the lack of new Stones output from the archive I like to make my point clear that at the moment, I care a shit about what they release from the archives, whos mixing it and whatever - no, Im just happy that the ball starts rolling as it seems!

A message to Universal: Whatever youre preparing for us fans in this very moment - get the shit out in the streets as quick as possible before Jagger thinks twice...

damn right



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-22 15:41 by Gazza.

Why?

I've allready tried to explain this in the thread.

Don't you all think your going a tad OTT???

i will not go as far as to say that who's in charge of the mixing doesn't count at all - but then what about the sound engineer(s) involved? do we know who they are? do we approve them? do we care about them? - but first of all, correct me if i am wrong, mixing is not at all like producing, at best a part of it, isn't it?

second this thing about blaming Don Was for his work with the Stones sounds a little bit like put all the blame on the coach of a soccer team that loses some games.

Yes I also have some things that I dont like in the "Don Was era" if we talk about the "sound" of the stones records or the choice of some tracks. But can I really put the blame on the producer for these flaws? Well I think that it is more on Mick and Keith since they also take the greatest part of the honors (and the money) of their output. And rightly so.

So I am looking forward this deluxe edition of our "Padrino" hoping, as many others, that it will be just the beginning of a journey into the history of the band.

Dont shoot on the mixer! Who cares about the mixer?

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slasausjes
Who cares about the mixer?

Again: I DO

Nice of you to care about him. We need more empathy in this cruel world.

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slasausjes
Who cares about the mixer?

Again: I DO

fine, so what about the personnel involved?

Can you elaborate more about what exactly you don't like in Don Was work as... mixer

considering that:
most of ABB is mixed by Jack Joseph Puig
BTB by Tom Lord-Alge
Voodoo Loung by Don Smith
Stripped by Bob Clearmountain

On the other hand I can name exactly the things that dont convince me about Don Was as a producer which are
Mick and Keith
more precisely their apparent need not to be challanged in their latest style of work on their music
What I dont like of Don Was is that he seems to fit that picture as a producer and the outcome is some good things but over all a sense of lost opportunities



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-22 17:23 by maumau.