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Gazza
It's nitpicking. Especially when its regarding the MIXING of 40 year old recordings that werent meant to be released to begin with. As it's unlikely we'll be able to put the original personnel in a time machine to transport them back to 1972, it's utterly pointless to bitch about the mix of something we havent heard yet and which may not even be the same versions as a few good, but not great, sounding bootlegs that a few thousand people have. If it wasnt Don Was, it would be someone else at fault. Chuck Leavell must feel relieved he wasnt around that far back!

I can only imagine what the reaction would be if they actually DID sanction a multi disc archives release

It is not "nitpcking". We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. Exile on Main Street is like "The Godfather"...a visceral, murky, multi-layered and genre-defining work that has, with the passage of time, taken on mythical qualities and profound meaning to devotees and fans of all ages. This 'aint Def Leppard...the album is arguably the apotheosis of the dominant musical form of the late 20th Century.

Having said that I think the subject has to be split into two themes. The first is the fact that we'll be getting unreleased/re-mixed material from one of the Stones greatest and most fertile periods. The second is the fact that this material will be in the hands of a producer who has not pushed the Stones out of their comfort zones and has not added anything special to their sound in 15 years of working with them. He is anodyne and wholly subservient to the Stones' laziest instincts.

So on the one hand I am overjoyed at the possibility of getting to hear unearthed tracks from one of the greatest albums ever...and on the other hand I am dismayed that this material will be in the hands of a mediocre industry hack like Was. I think any trepidation by hard-core fans (who will, after all be the dominant target market for this project) regarding his participation in this project is valid...not 'nitpicking'. Just my opinion.

Who would be better, you might ask? Rick Rubin would be the man...for this and any future Stones project.

^What he said...

First off, Don Was is not 'remixing' the tracks. You can't truly count a rough mix that you've heard on a bootleg as THE mix, like for an album. It's like saying if he did a mix for You Got It Made - it's not a remix simply because it exists on the Voodoo boot, it's THE mix. Rough mixes don't count. That's not the way it works.

So he's mixing them to be a final mix for release.

And nothing has come out yet. No official word, nothing. There is nothing to assume. It could very well sound like how Exile 'sounds', which is interesting, certainly, but it's not mixed any better than Sticky Fingers or Goats Head Soup, it was just mixed as it was. There's nothing special about the mix really, we've just gotten used to how the album sounds so anything different would 'ruin' the album.

Which is hilarious because I thought the album was loved for the songs, not so much the mix.

That really long 'remix' of Miss You is most likely the actual mix, it's just got a lot less editing than the US and UK releases of the single and LP versions and more editing for things to be longer.

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StonesFanatic

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Rip This
....surely you jest....and what if another......I Don't Know Why.....exists...??????

Well that would be awesome, but I won't hold my breath...

..no one's holding their breath.....but if they are "tinkering" with arguably their most famous release they aren't going to put out crap to diminish it...thats a no brainer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-19 21:13 by Rip This.

What other out takes? Come on. Exile wasn't entirely recorded in France. Some of it is Sticky Fingers leftovers. Early working versions were probably finished and then discarded, like Good Time Woman. Maybe an early version of 100 Years Ago, which someone said was actually done for SF I think it was, they just didn't copyright it. You can't go just by what some website says. Nobody TRULY knows except for the people who truly know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-20 02:14 by skipstone.

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Rip This

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StonesFanatic

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Rip This
....surely you jest....and what if another......I Don't Know Why.....exists...??????

Well that would be awesome, but I won't hold my breath...

..no one's holding their breath.....but if they are "tinkering" with arguably their most famous release they aren't going to put out crap to diminish it...thats a no brainer.

The thing is, it's their most heralded release, but the band (especially Mick) don't particularly care for it...it's "Keith's album", probably in Mick's mind, and he's never thought that much of it...

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skipstone
Nobody TRULY knows except for he people who truly know.

Quote of the year!

If this is true and The Stones are finally opening up the vaults and releasing outtakes, this is the most significant Stones news I have heard in years. I know Mick is supposedly against this type of thing, but they did (allegedly)have the "Memory Hotel" collection ready to go before axing it at the last minute.

As for Don Was, well, anybody other than Jimmy Miller touching these tracks would be less than perfect, so it might as well be Was. I am just glad to be getting mixed & Mastered outtakes from the golden era. If it includes the entire, uncut "Hillside Blues" it will be worth the price just for that!

Ross



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-19 21:50 by Ross.

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Turd On The Run
It is not "nitpcking". We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. Exile on Main Street

No we're not. What we're talking about is the leftovers, the ones that didn't make it, the dreg ends of Exile, the recordings they didn't want anyone to hear. The ones deemed not good enough to go on the greatest rock and roll album of all time.

But you are correct, its not nitpcking.

It is nitpicking though.

When Don Was told me about his working on the deluxe edition of Exile back in late April, he never said, not implied, that he was remixing the original 18 songs. He said he was going through unreleased songs and said there were a lot to go through. No mention was made of a DVD, as is rumored, but if that's true, maybe he has no involvement with it.

He also said were that he feels that the Stones have 2 albums worth of good material left over from all of the sessions he has done with them since 1993. On a previous time when I met him, I had asked him about the 2002 Paris sessions and he said he thought songs from those sessions would eventually come out. Perhaps there will be either a new studio album made up from these 1993-2005 recordings or they will end up on some box set down the road?

He also said that he tried real hard to convince Mick and Keith that A Bigger Bang should have been a 12 song album, but he clearly didn't convince them, and that he has no involvement with Ronnie's new solo album.

As far as Mick's other band project, I've heard from different sources that the group name is either Super Heavy or Super Heavyweight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-19 22:03 by Halup.

Thanks, Halup. Your scoops are much appreciated here as always.

Thank you very much Halup for the huge amount of information contained in your short post. It's especially the "two albums worth of material since 1993" and the "Super Heavyweigths" that I'm interested in.

I hope we'll all be listening to the new stuff soon!

To be honest, I don't care too much about the reissue of EOMSt because my mom got the vinyl. ;-)

>We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. >Exile on Main Street is like "The Godfather"...

Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll.

N

Like Ross said : As for Don Was, well, anybody other than Jimmy Miller touching these tracks would be less than perfect, so it might as well be Was. I am just glad to be getting mixed & Mastered outtakes from the golden era. If it includes the entire, uncut "Hillside Blues" it will be worth the price just for that!

I agree with Ross.

Also the quote from Halup is intriguing :He (Don Was) said he was going through unreleased songs and said there were a lot to go through.

If only 8 will be released, than what doesn't make the final list?

I want as many as possible (now THAT is moaning, which I will do after the thing is released!)

It would be great to have, what was it, All Down The Line had a different mix for the 45 that never got released? Something like that. Plus the extended Happy that is in the movie that you can hear them listening to - it doesn't fade out when the LP version does. Certainly there are additional mixes still in the can somewhere.

Yeah - the kind of griping I want to do is GIMME IT ALL!

Funnily enough, - I just said in another thread that the Stones have IMO too many assistants + helping hands in the studio these days.

But Don Was is only one of them. And most songs on the last 3 albums have NOT been mixed by him!

BTW. Weren't the 02 sessions the origin of those dreadful new 40 Licks songs?
So there shouldn't be too much good material left over!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-20 05:01 by CousinC.

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NeddieFlanders
I'm sure that Mrs. Love's claims are reliable. Also they make sense,
as we all know how Universal handles their de luxe-editions. Two discs -
one with the original album, one with demos/outtakes/work-in-progress-takes.

Jagger always had an attitude against releasing rejected tracks.
Now he opened the vaults for his Best-of-album, and he does it again
for one of the most beloved Stones-albums of all time: Exile On Main St..
For me this is the (stones-related) news of the year!

Everyone is cheering for the discovery of new outtakes, even if they
are coming from less popular albums like Dirty Work or Steel Wheels.
Now we will most probably get a disc full of outtakes from Exile and
we should hold our breath. And not worry just because Don Was is
mixing the tracks. He is mixing, not remixing them. Maybe he is putting
Jagger's guide vocals upfront, so we can actually hear them, or he will
even edit some tracks which went nowhere or became a jam after some minutes.
No big deal for me, as I think getting some authorised outtake-release is
much more than we could have hoped for, and I really hope it will be a
success, so we maybe will get some more like that in the near future.

N

maybe if an unfinished track needs piano, he will get chuck to add some plink lol

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NeddieFlanders
>We're talking about perhaps the greatest rock and roll album of all time here. >Exile on Main Street is like "The Godfather"...

Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll.

N

they would if michael bay or uwe boll were putting it together... and don was is as big of a hack as either of them lol

just because we have bootleg versions of songs does not mean they are the same versions that are in the vaults . alot of the boots could be early demos . no one knows what's in those vaults or the condition of the tapes. i hope don was actually uses analog equipment instead of computer programs. anyone can mix with a pc but it will not sound as good. when george martin worked on the beatles anthology collection he used equipment from the time period the songs were recorded. would be nice if the same was done for the stones as well. if i had my way there would be a few versions of exile released .
1.(2 disc) standard album with a bonus disc of outtakes
2.(3 disc) standard album, a cd with new mixes , and outtakes disc
3. (collectors edition) standard album, a cd with new mixes , and outtakes disc , a 5.1 surround sound disc and dvd of the 1972 stp tour

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ghostryder13
just because we have bootleg versions of songs does not mean they are the same versions that are in the vaults . alot of the boots could be early demos . no one knows what's in those vaults or the condition of the tapes. i hope don was actually uses analog equipment instead of computer programs. anyone can mix with a pc but it will not sound as good. when george martin worked on the beatles anthology collection he used equipment from the time period the songs were recorded. would be nice if the same was done for the stones as well. if i had my way there would be a few versions of exile released .
1.(2 disc) standard album with a bonus disc of outtakes
2.(3 disc) standard album, a cd with new mixes , and outtakes disc
3. (collectors edition) standard album, a cd with new mixes , and outtakes disc , a 5.1 surround sound disc and dvd of the 1972 stp tour

You can find a 5.1 surround sound version of Exile on torrent sites. And it sounds awesome--even though it's not an official release.

"Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll."

Hardly the same thing. One disc would be the movie; the other a doco.

Exile would be songs with more songs added in this instance. Which as I've already stated (I think) is a bad idea.

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squando
"Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll."

Hardly the same thing. One disc would be the movie; the other a doco.

Exile would be songs with more songs added in this instance. Which as I've already stated (I think) is a bad idea.

Nope. That's no the way those Universal de luxe-editions will be presented.
We will get disc one with the album. Untouched in the mix, but most probably
remastered with more loudness, like the first two batches of remasters which
are already out.

And we will get a second disc with tracks like demos, outtakes,
run-throughs, songs in earlier stages or with some different instrumentation.
Work-in-progress - like a making-of or a B-roll on most of nowadays DVD
re-releases. And even if Don Was is the Uwe Boll of rock, I don't think
he will put anything to those archive recordings than some edits and a
proper mix.
Of course we can fear that he adds some of the patented lounge piano
playing of Chuck Leavell onto the tracks, but this is not likely.
(I'm sure Nicky Hopkins' or Ian Stewart's fantastic piano playing will
already be there anyway).
Just my guesswork, but I'm sure I will be proven right. ;-)

N

If that's the case Ned then that is much better than attaching them to the original album so I hope you are right.

I still prefer that they just release outakes as a seperate project however.

No matter what they give you 90% of this forum will be pissed off.

I'm very excited about this Exile release, and I'm not too worried about Don Was' role. But as usual, we don't get to know much at all from the Stones themselves. I wish they would interact more with their fans during the creation of their releases.

I certainly hope they don't waste any opportunities and neglect anything important. Hopefully the track choices won't leave us thinking "ummm....was that all?". Hopefully they won't diminish Mick Taylor's, Bill Wyman's and Nicky Hopkins' roles. Hopefully the sleeve notes won't be a lame hack job like in A Bigger Bang, Relics or Metamorphosis.

I know I sound like a whiner, but the reason we all complain/worry so much is that the Stones have done so badly with these things before. If this was about Dylan, The Beatles or Neil Young we wouldn't worry so much.

My main complaint, however, is still: why only Exile? Why not make deluxe editions of all the Universal albums, including live material? If it would take half a year between every release -- fine! We'd have a long time of awesome Rolling Stones listening in front of us.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-20 15:39 by LieB.

LieB, I think Exile is only the beginning. It doesn't make sense to stop at one release, and I'm quite optimistic that more will follow (in one way or another).

any rumors about the dvd yet?

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NeddieFlanders

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squando
"Nobody would argue if they would re-release The Godfather on DVD and
add a second disc with a making-of or B-roll."

Hardly the same thing. One disc would be the movie; the other a doco.

Exile would be songs with more songs added in this instance. Which as I've already stated (I think) is a bad idea.

Nope. That's no the way those Universal de luxe-editions will be presented.
We will get disc one with the album. Untouched in the mix, but most probably
remastered with more loudness, like the first two batches of remasters which
are already out.

And we will get a second disc with tracks like demos, outtakes,
run-throughs, songs in earlier stages or with some different instrumentation.
Work-in-progress - like a making-of or a B-roll on most of nowadays DVD
re-releases. And even if Don Was is the Uwe Boll of rock, I don't think
he will put anything to those archive recordings than some edits and a
proper mix.

The most likely scenario, and I personally dont see anything there that anyone can justifiably complain about. He's not tinkering with the original album, and as the second disc is a separate entity that we've never heard before, there's not exactly much to 'ruin'.

As great as Exile is. And it is IMO the greatest rock'n roll album of all time, I am not thrilled about the outtakes. Because I have seen that the outtakes are not that great. They used all the good stuff, and even that they had to rework heavily. Yes - Exile is supposed to be the album, that was recorded in the Nellcote basement, but all the real players have since told that most, most of the actual album that we hear was fashioned later in LA. Much writing, and basic direction and feel of course from Nellcote, and a good bit of basic trax. But over dubs, vocals, mixing was done in LA. Other basic tracks are from as early as 69 from other studios.
So "Good Time Women". "Bent Green Needles" acoustic ADTL or and endless rep of the rif cycle w/o vocals of "Let it Loose" is not that grand. I love outtakes; there's just not that much here.
And Don Was? A sycophant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-20 17:39 by Palace Revolution 2000.

.....I think there are a lot of people that forget how great Jagger/Richards were in this period. Regardless if the piece was done in 68 or 71 they were at their peak....rock'n roll animals for the ages....I'd take their worst outtake from that period over "Look What The Cat Dragged In"...anyday.

Strange - it so happens I am listening to the whole ABB album for the 1st time in AGES; and right now it is the "Cat" and I was just thinking how good the song is.
While listening I was reading the track listings and liner notes again; I realized that it is more of a Stonesalbum than I want to give it credit. I guess, I;'m saying that Ronnie is present a good bit; eventhough they flew his o/ds in.
Can't believe they didn't have whole band sessions. But I see that on just about every song we see Mick and Keith on BU vocals, on percussion, on guitars. So there must be a good bit of takes that happened with both of them at a mike recording at once. Maybe shaking the maracas. Would LOVE to see those photos. The reason we are not seeing them is not because they don't happen, but because the sessions were closed maybe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-20 18:39 by Palace Revolution 2000.