tatters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sdstonesguy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "The worst mistake they ever made was the US
> tour
> > in early '78 when they travelled across the
> > American SOUTH! Who the hell booked that tour
> and
> > what the @#$%& were they thinking? They played
> in
> > places like TEXAS but skipped New York,
> Chicago,
> > Detroit? "
> >
> > Clearly, you just don't get it...that was the
> > point! They would not play CBGBs, but they
> would
> > do cowboy bars in the South. That was the
> ENTIRE
> > POINT...that punk wasn't a movement, it was
> going
> > against the grain. It was actually following
> in
> > the 60s ideology of "be your own here", or to
> put
> > it better "don't follow leaders, watch your
> > parking meetaaws".
> >
> >
>
> They wouldn't have HAD to play CBGBs. In New York,
> in '78, there would have been enough interest in
> the band to book them into the Beacon Theatre for
> several nights and they could have made some real
> money playing to people who really wanted to see
> them and not been all dejected and demoralized by
> the time they got to San Francisco. People in the
> South in the late 70s didn't want to see the
> goddamn Sex Pistols. They wanted to see the Allman
> Brothers and Marshall Tucker and the Outlaws and
> Charlie Daniels and Lynyrd Skynyrd. Touring the
> South wasn't "going against the grain", it was
> total career suicide for them!


Tatters, with all due respect, you really are missing the point. The Pistols toured the South quite literally to antagonise people, create a stir and generate headlines. This is why Steve Jones' choice of attire at the gigs was a t shirt depicting two cowboys, naked from the waist down, touching dicks.

Playing New York would have been too easy. New York had basically as good as invented - or, at the very least - inspired the UK version of punk. The pistols would have been welcomed like heroes.

You should read John Lydon's superb autobiography for an account of the last US tour. He and Sid Vicious travelled everywhere by bus because Lydon was trying to get Vicious off heroin. The rest of the band went by plane.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-19 11:16 by Nikolai.

tatters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sdstonesguy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "They wouldn't have HAD to play CBGBs. In New
> > York, in '78, there would have been enough
> > interest in the band to book them into the
> Beacon
> > Theatre for several nights and they could have
> > made some real money playing to people who
> really
> > wanted to see them and not been all dejected
> and
> > demoralized by the time they got to San
> Francisco.
> > People in the South in the late 70s didn't want
> to
> > see the goddamn Sex Pistols. They wanted to see
> > the Allman Brothers and Marshall Tucker and the
> > Outlaws and Charlie Daniels and Lynyrd Skynyrd.
> > Touring the South wasn't "going against the
> > grain", it was total career suicide for them!"
> >
> > Again...that was the point...and not terribly
> > difficult to see either...they certainly didn't
> > hide...and they've even talked about it since.
>
>
> The point was to crash and burn and then go on
> tour 20 and 30 years later playing every song on
> their one and only album to ever-dwindling
> audiences who cared about it less and less? That
> was their Master Plan? I guess I really never will
> understand the punk ethos!


No, reforming was NEVER part of the plan. Not that I actually the Pistols ever had a plan, to be honest with you, irrespective of what Malcolm McClaren says.

John Lydon thought them a one album band (Never Mind The Bollocks took forever to record - so long that a bootleg called Spunk, containing early versions of the songs on said album, had acyually appeared prior to Bollocks' release). Steve Jones and Paul Cook wanted to be in a typical rock band, touring the world and screwing groupies. Sid Vicious wanted to be a star - when he wanted more than his next fix.

tatters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nikolai Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Erik_Snow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ah I wish Sex Pistols had ended for good in
> > > Winterland 1978,
> > > the 1996 and 2002 reunion were pathetic.
> > > Magnificent in the 70s....but that energy
> can't
> > be
> > > brought back by TV-Rotten and his gang
> >
> >
> > Actually, HAD they ended on Rotten's infamous
> > "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
> line
> > at Winterland in '78, that would have been
> > absolutely perfect. Instead, they had to go
> and
> > spoil it with a - frankly crap - reunion in '96
> > (not sure what was more embarassing - Rotten's
> > clowning or steve Jones' leopard skin
> trousers),
> > and an even more pointless one in 2002.
>
>
>
> I would have been quite happy to let Sid and Nancy
> (1986) be the final word on the Sex Pistols. Of
> course, I never would have gotten to see them if
> that had been the case.

Terrible film. See The Filth & The Fury instead. THAT was a great film. Equal parts moving and funny.

I think its quite funny that everyones digging at the Pistols for reforming repeatedly and not supporting a new album??? Kinda familiar in a way?

ablett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think its quite funny that everyones digging at
> the Pistols for reforming repeatedly and not
> supporting a new album??? Kinda familiar in a way?


Hehe - yeah. Well, on the last tour the Stones were nominally backing ABB...but the tour before that? No new album in five years.

And why should the Sex Pistols not be allowed to make a few bobs out of the Sex Pistols?? Enough other people have......(I read this interview with Billy Bragg, that every stop they made on the motorway, McLagan - who's in Billy's band, would see yet another compilation of Small Faces that he does not recieve money for. I guess the same is true of the Pistols..)

If I had been in a famous band and was skint....I know what route I'd take...and the same probably goes for most of us in here. And I must say, that I find it hard to fathom how touring could make their album less fabolous? It's still there to listen to.

As for not singing/playing the songs the way they sound on the album - well, Bob Dylan is lauded for doing exactly that. I don't go to a concert to hear a replica of an album - I go for the atmosphere and the event.

And the Sex Pistols leaving the stage at Roskilde Festival - did that not have something to do with the fact that bottles were thrown? I did not see that concert, though. But I did see Johnny Winter some years before and he vacated the stage because of the same shit - also at Roskilde. And I did/do not blame Winter but the scumbag(s) who threw the bottles! Someone on this thread said it was fun to see Johnny Rotten being hit with a bottle - yeah, must have been hilarious!! (How would YOU like it at your job???)

I've said it before and I WILL say it again: Leave the career decisions to those for whom it matters - i.e. the bands themselves, whether it's the Stones or the Sex Pistols or any other band. And get off of that high horse.... if you don't wanna see them....don't go!!

It IS that easy ;-)

Well said!

And don't forget, at least the pistols are still the original line up. Aint many other reformed bands that can claim that.

Nikolai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tatters Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nikolai Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Erik_Snow Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Ah I wish Sex Pistols had ended for good in
> > > > Winterland 1978,
> > > > the 1996 and 2002 reunion were pathetic.
> > > > Magnificent in the 70s....but that energy
> > can't
> > > be
> > > > brought back by TV-Rotten and his gang
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, HAD they ended on Rotten's infamous
> > > "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
> > line
> > > at Winterland in '78, that would have been
> > > absolutely perfect. Instead, they had to go
> > and
> > > spoil it with a - frankly crap - reunion in
> '96
> > > (not sure what was more embarassing -
> Rotten's
> > > clowning or steve Jones' leopard skin
> > trousers),
> > > and an even more pointless one in 2002.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would have been quite happy to let Sid and
> Nancy
> > (1986) be the final word on the Sex Pistols. Of
> > course, I never would have gotten to see them
> if
> > that had been the case.
>
> Terrible film. See The Filth & The Fury instead.
> THAT was a great film. Equal parts moving and
> funny.


I did see The Filth And The Fury. I thought it was very powerful. In fact, I had to get up and go out into the lobby during some of the heroin scenes. I couldn't watch it. Only thing I didn't like was that they were all sitting in SHADOWS when they were being interviewed. They didn't want anyone to see their 45-year-old faces, or what?

"They didn't want anyone to see their 45-year-old faces, or what?"

Is that a serious question? Jesus, "you seek conspiracy in everything Max".

I was sitting in a friends house once, his wife was Malcoms former seretary (And ex of jamie reid) as i was stirring my coffee, she told me that Sid had used it to cook his smack once !!!

the place was full of pistols memrobillia, the sid model,stickers and t-shirts from the SPOTS tour. You can see the same lady in the Swindle movie ccatting to Talcy Malcy about sending "disugusted with pistols" letters to the press.

Pistols eh...started a revolution....but the music, tosh, give me Fun House anyday. B0llocks is tame.
This reunion is a Freak Show in the truest sense.
Sad old men, and Lydons 'attitude' is cringeworthy, false. How we were hoodwinked by melodrama like God Save the Queen.
Bye bye Pisstols.

Totally disagree...but the funny thing is...I hear folks say the same exact stuff about the Stones. Really, it seems that it simply comes down to taste for most folks...very few can really view it without personal opinion coming in. I guess if those who think it is a joke should be taken seriously, they would have to take those who think the Stones are a joke seriously.

I'll shrug both off...throw it all at me.

sdstonesguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally disagree...but the funny thing is...I hear
> folks say the same exact stuff about the Stones.
> Really, it seems that it simply comes down to
> taste for most folks...very few can really view it
> without personal opinion coming in. I guess if
> those who think it is a joke should be taken
> seriously, they would have to take those who think
> the Stones are a joke seriously.
>
> I'll shrug both off...throw it all at me.

SPOT ON.

Well, (this song called 'NO FUN') is from the f#######STOOGES.
This version by the pistols has much less power and attitude than the IG and the incredible Stooges did about 11 years earlier. Pistols were a good entertaining machine, but no creative working band. And this third reunion is a hit in the face of any lover of rock music. punk, the 70's, hey ho, or whatever.

paulywaul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sex Pistols to reform!
>
> Quite possibly the least exciting news I've heard
> in decades. May the 8th November 2007 pass
> quickly, and then with luck they'll disappear into
> even deeper obscurity for hopefully another thirty
> years ! Waste of space !


well, dont sugar coat it!
how do you really feel?

sdstonesguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "They didn't want anyone to see their 45-year-old
> faces, or what?"
>
> Is that a serious question? Jesus, "you seek
> conspiracy in everything Max".


Well, why WOULD they want to be hidden in shadows when being interviewed on camera? Seems like a silly affectation to me. I guess you might say "They wanted to keep the audience focused on the way they WERE and not have people be distracted by the way they are TODAY", but if you're gonna come off like some kind of Greta Garbo recluse who in sits in the shadows and says "I want to be remembered the way I WAS", it's a little disingenuous to keep going out on these reunion tours and exposing your own myth the moment you begin playing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-20 04:49 by tatters.

Nikolai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tatters, with all due respect, you really are
> missing the point. The Pistols toured the South
> quite literally to antagonise people, create a
> stir and generate headlines. This is why Steve
> Jones' choice of attire at the gigs was a t shirt
> depicting two cowboys, naked from the waist down,
> touching dicks.
>
> Playing New York would have been too easy. New
> York had basically as good as invented - or, at
> the very least - inspired the UK version of punk.
> The pistols would have been welcomed like heroes.


They would have been welcomed like heroes. That's a bad thing? Okay, maybe I get it now. It's the Bizarro World, right?

sdstonesguy hit it right; it's another group of older men savvy enough to cash in on the fact that their audience will forever vicariously relive their youth thru music! Johnny Rotten is about as anti-establishment these days as mick jagger.

OLDKR

"YOU'LL GET ONE NUMBER AND ONE NUMBER ONLY 'CAUSE I'M A LAZY BASTARD, THIS IS NO FUN."

Johnny Rotten, just prior to encore, January 14, 1978, Winterland, San Francisco

I was there at the Pistols last show. I cannot believe how much negativity towards the Pistols that I have been reading in this thread.

I LOVED the Pistols. I still do, but it's different now. But when I hear those songs, I still can feel like going nuts and smashing things.

How to recreate such a scene and feelings from 1977 and 1978? Punk was in its infancy in the Bay Area at that time. We had listened to the Ramones and others. Then we heard and read about the Pistols and the whole British punk scene.

Never Mind the Bollocks was just wild, insane, make you want to smash and destroy. Johnny, with that little kid, raging voice. He was our Hero. And their best song, and right up there with the best rock songs ever, but NOT on the album, was DID YOU NO WRONG, good god, the guitar and the drums.

American punks were mostly posers (poseurs). The Mabuhay Gardens on Broadway was the center of the local Bay Area scene. But the real stuff was to be found in London. We were hoping and waiting for the Pistols to come Stateside, it seemed like forever. Then, the announcement. We couldn't wait.

We felt like this was the first or at least til then the BIGGEST punk gathering in the Bay. The hippies had had their time, that was over. Which punk band wrote "Kill The Hippies"? Our time had come. The whole punk community and punk fans had come together in unison and in force. This was truly an EVENT.

The concert itself was OK, a bit anticlimactic. But as someone here just said, it was the atmosphere, attitude and dramatics which are as or more important than the music. For me, same with the Stones.

God Save The Queen (may have been the opener) -- an absolute anthem.

Concert was promoted by Bill Graham, longtime Bay Area promoter/impresario who had figured largely in the rise of the Bay Area rock n roll scene in the 60s and 70s. Interesting irony.

Before the show, we were walking around behind the stage as was possible at Winterland and we saw Sid watching one of the warm up acts. We called down to him and he ackowleged us with raised beer.

Lot of spitting and things being thrown. Short, very short show. A good boot is available taken off KSAN radio, THE radio station at the time. Which had also done a 2 am interview with Paul Cook and Steve Jones the night before the show during their regular Friday night punk segment (cant remember the name of it).

"Where's Johnny and Sid? I don't know, they're on the bus, they're scared to take the airplane" was the answer. People calling in, lots of insults and swearing (with warnings about the FCC) but lots of fun being thrown back and forth too. Hilarious, outrageous. There I was listening to it on my bed in my dorm room in Berkeley. Still have a tape of that.

Yes, we were dressed for the occasion, but did not dress like that as a way of life. Poser.

We (my maniac Sicilian American buddy and I) went out with some punk chicks up to Coit Tower after the show, drinking beer, smashing beer bottles, probably urinating on the statue of Columbus. Big deal, right. Great fun at the time and at that age. Rebellion, of some sort.

Anyway, sort of run out of words or things to say. But I hope I have conveyed an impression or given context to the Pistols and what they meant to us and especially when they came to us. I may not be able to logically defend any of this with words, it was and perhaps is still, a thing of emotion.


Plexi



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-09-20 07:13 by timbernardis.

PLexi- great post!- it didnt matter to you that the pistols were a creation? that almost everything they ever said was nonsense to provoke reactions from a press and/or a generation of adults that didnt understand them? Its an honest question, not some sort of veiled attack, I'm interested culturally.

OLDKR

Da Sex Pisstools......



ROCKMAN

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLexi- great post!- it didnt matter to you that
> the pistols were a creation? that almost
> everything they ever said was nonsense to provoke
> reactions from a press and/or a generation of
> adults that didnt understand them? Its an honest
> question, not some sort of veiled attack, I'm
> interested culturally.
>
> OLDKR


if you tell me that johnny rotten did not have true rage, you're wrong, that was not just an act, you could palpably (sp?) feel it, see it, hear it.

Beyond that, it is what we believed or wanted to believe that was important. It is the same as in history -- it is just as important, maybe more important, what is BELIEVED to have happened, as what actually happened.

plexiglass

Pisstools...Johnny an' Sid gettin' nicked on Kings Road....Barry Plummer..



ROCKMAN

Great pix, Punkrockman! Lurrrrv John's shoes.

The Sex Pistols weren't very good. The Ramones were better before them, and there were countless punk bands that were far, far better after them.

thanks for sharing your memories Mr Plexi- Tim

great stuff - Lydon meant it..they were the real deal, alright.

Culturally interested? Watch this [video.google.co.uk]

Nanker,


I used to know your friend's wife from the Sex Pistol's office. Her name was Sophie if I remember right. We talked a lot when I was trying to set up a Pistols gig during '77 in York.

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLexi- great post!- it didnt matter to you that
> the pistols were a creation? that almost
> everything they ever said was nonsense to provoke
> reactions from a press and/or a generation of
> adults that didnt understand them? Its an honest
> question, not some sort of veiled attack, I'm
> interested culturally.
>
> OLDKR


Johnny Rotten meant it maaaaaaaan! Just watch The Filthy & The Fury and tell me the guy spouts "nonsense". Or, better still, read his book. He makes absolute perfect sense every single time.

If you're referring to the Grundy TV interview where they said "f.uck" on tv, they were actually provioked into doing that by Bill Grundy's drunk, lecherous behaviour towards the women who were in the studio with them (including Siouxsie Sioux). Grundy actually ASKED them to swear some more. So they obliged.

Then the press got hold of it and the media myth was born .... Fanned, in no small part, by that cowardly, dishonest squirt of a self-promoting, self-aggrandizing sleazeball, Malcolm McClaren. McClaren takes credit for what were basically a bunch of accidents and mishaps he had nothing to do with. In fact, had he been a Peter Grant figure, the Pistols would have actually made a lot of money.

Yeah Bro....Lurv Johnny's friggin boooooots..........



ROCKMAN

oldkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it didnt matter to you that
> the pistols were a creation? that almost
> everything they ever said was nonsense to provoke
> reactions from a press and/or a generation of
> adults that didnt understand them?

with respect, that's nonsense,
...you clearly, didn't grow up in mid-70's Britain.
desperate times...no future.