bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>But half a
> minute later he was on fire and all the way
> throughout the show.

sorry not to share you enthusiam, but the only moment when Keith was kind of "on fire" was when he lit his cigarette after JJF. (was front row Keith side).

Last year concerts I attended were really really great, but taht one was really really a big dissapointment. Luckilly I am not at Keith side for the other concerts I am attending (if they will take place at all).

and what a setlist: I really assumed to get at least some of the pearls they played the nights before (which I never heard live): warhorses and semi-warhorses which were sound- and playwise hardly recognisable. Don't think that that concert will improve German ticket sales for DD and Hamburg.

Thanks for all the reports!
Hope Keith will recover...

bumbum Wrote:
>
> Heavy alcohol and drug use doesn't only create
> liver damage, but even worse - "brain damage".



bumbum I'm well aware of that and don't disagree with you, my father has been an alcoholic since I was a small child listening to the Wombles not the Stones. It can do dreadful things to people (alcohol not Wombles!).

The point I am making is that there are many reasons for acquiring a bit of a tummy and we seem to be using it to diagnose all kinds of things. The most pragmatic explanation is too much shepherd's pie!

The blackouts, brain damage and other horrors caused by alcohol and drug abuse that you describe are not always accompanied by the hugely distended liver that would show externally.



Let's stick with sssoul's comments: "maybe just getting into the show would be a better idea?

all kinds of blessings & well-being on Keith & all the Stones" and enjoy the tour

Band/music issues don't concern me that much, nothing that new there, and if Keith's powers are waning, well, one day I suppose it has to happen, I just hope it's not yet!
But that stadium!!!!! Sh1t, it looks like a school assembley. A total disregard for the audience.
Anyway, I've had my dowsing twigs out and they have been giving a a very nice twitch with respect to Paris. I'm putting my money on a good one. A hot night in the SDF....i can't wait....FOS here we come :-)

Oily.

61' telecaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Start Me Up
> 2. You Got Me Rocking
> 3. Rough Justice
> 4. Bitch
> 5. Monkey Man
> 6. Sweet Virginia
> 7. Midnight Rambler
> 8. I'll Go Crazy
> 9. Tumbling Dice
> 10. Wanna Hold You
> 11. Before They Make Me Run
> 12. It's Only Rock'n'Roll
> 13. Respectable
> 14. Satisfaction
> 15. Honky Tonk Women
> 16. Sympathy for The Devil
> 17. Paint It Black
> 18. Brown Sugar
> 19. Jumping Jack Flash


Great setlist....
Just take away Sweet Virginia + I´ll go crazy and add some good rock n roll tunes like "Oh no not you again" and "If you cant rock me".

Kartoffelsalat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are some photos I have taken with my cell
> phone cam:
>
> Pic taken while The Stones played Start Me Up!

sorry Kartoffelsalat, but I don't believe you.
That first picture of the half empty stadium was taken at 19:14 hs. - you can see that if you save it - and with all due respect, I doubt that your cell phone is not set to the actual time.

Nice setlist, too bad the sound wasn't good enough for it.

I really hope the band never reads this board.

jomo297 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really hope the band never reads this board.


I am afraid they don't.

Well, if it makes them lay the seats out better, no problem.

Will post some photos when I get back tonight.
The stadium didn't look as empty as some say.
(from floor that is)

What a waste, going home work (be there) 1 day, then Paris.
See you all

TE
Oslo

TE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The stadium didn't look as empty as some say.
> (from floor that is)

no, it really looked well filled. But compared to the great sound and playing we got in Stuttgart last year... Hope they haven't built a roof for the Volksparkstadion Hamburg in the meantime.

Kartoffelsalat, the screenshots from the webcam are here: [www.iorr.org]
the first shot you posted ... well, you can see for yourself that it's more like 19:05 - 19:35 than 20:35

Oh boy, what can I say. I don't ever remember that I've ever
felt bored at a Stones show. Yesterday was the first time. I really don't know why. Maybe it was the absolutely sucking sound. On the floor it was more than bad the whole show. Seems they try to save some money on the sound crew. I mean they drove in tons of load of equipment and are not able to handle it. I mean even during Wanna Hold You they had several feedbacks because there have been to much treble on Keith mic. Took them half the song to fix it. Oh well...

On my way back home this morning my wife called me and asked: Was the sound really that bad? I asked astonished how she knows about that. Bad critics on Radio NDR2 (North Germany) this morning. Hmm...

In addition to the bad sound they also had technical problems when Keith's guitar broke down during Sympathy and the whole song was destroyed. I never saw Keith that angry going to the stage monitor roadies.

BTW. KEITH, my hero. I don't know what's up to him. But that absolutely nothing to say it more positive. Something is going wrong with him. Just look into his eyes. I hope I'm wrong but to me it looks like he's suffering from a stroke. Don't bash me,

Highlight then was introduction of Charlie and Keith.

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW. KEITH, my hero. I don't know what's up to
> him. But that absolutely nothing to say it more
> positive. Something is going wrong with him. Just
> look into his eyes. I hope I'm wrong but to me it
> looks like he's suffering from a stroke. Don't
> bash me

very sad to hear ths- best wishes to him

First, I think anyone who believes that Keef is "spot on" or without problems is in denial. Being a huge fan that I have been for so many years, I would prefer to believe everything is OK. However, I've been to Werchter and Frankfurt. Both concerts Keef seemed to be outside of his body. It's visible in his face. Also, he doesn't play guitar sometimes. I suppose that's why Blondie has a guitar. Like everyone else, I can only speculate his problem. I don't know whether to be mad or sad. If he's been drinking I'd be angry. But, I somehow don't believe Keef would allow these problems to exist if it's within his control. Leading me to believe there is some medical issue. Hopefully he will pull out it, as we know him to be a tough guy. The rest of the band has been nothing short of spectacular. The sound at Werchter was awesome while the sound at Frankfurt was the worst. Not the bands fault I know!

salar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> its 01.40 am now..I just came back to Cologne.
> Frankfurt was my first gig this
> summer,,,,well..what to say..I really got very
> Mixed Emotions tonight, because:
>
> 1. The stadium and the crowd...placing the stage
> on the sidetribune was a good idea..cause: The
> stadium seemed to be full at least...it looked
> pretty packed, the atmosphere was great...the fans
> were into it, especially during the second half
> and there were already no bad places cause
> evrybody had a much closer view to the stage...I
> guess approx 25.000 visitors...
>
> 2. I had block A2 row 1 seat 10..so this was front
> line , you could not get closer to the stage..but
> they left about 2 meters space between row 1 and
> the iron wall...everytime I wanted to go front, I
> was told to go back by the
> security...rubbish..after the Stones hit the stage
> on 08.50 pm evrybody was on his or or her
> feet...as if there were no seats at all..
> I could hardly see Charly from my place..I could
> not see Bernard,Lisa and Blondy at all, cause the
> stage was so high and I was on Keith side just
> opposite to the horn section.
>
> Now the show....so I had the so called best seats
> in the stadium...and I got the worst sound i ever
> wittnessed at a Stones gig...and I saw more than
> 30 or 40 Stones gigs so far...believe it or
> not....setlistwise tonights gig was one of my
> favorites..but what do you do if you are not able
> to recognice the songs..such as, Bitch, Monkey
> man, even Rambler was a mess soundwise...i could
> hardly hear the guitars..Micks voice could not be
> heard at all..the horns..forget it..it was a
> horrible mish mash...I dont know the english
> vocabulary..so I explain it in german:
> " Leute, der Sound war ein einziger Brei..eine
> katstrophe, eine Schande, ein Matsch aus
> dröhnenden Gitarrenchaos..Mick war fast überhaupt
> nicht zu erkennen..die drums shepperten mit
> Verzögerung....ich hätt echt heulen können"...I
> really wanted to cry...never thought it could get
> such a shitty lousy sound..
> The Stones themselfes were in good shape....Mick
> at his best...he talked a lot to the audience...he
> apologized for not playing last year and so on,
> Charly was cool...he had so much fun during band
> intro..Ronni was very concentrated..he IS
> sober...at least tonight he was....Keith, well
> Keith...on some songs he was on..on others he
> wasn`t..well this is Keith as we all know him,
> BUT: he was not the keith I saw last summer...what
> I mean ?..I am not sure, but he partly looked and
> behaved like he was kind of sedated( sediert in
> german)...
> as I will go to the next Stones gig in Paris on
> saturday I will watch him again carfully and than
> I will see if there is something or if it was just
> an off night like he has it from time to
> time...although I do not mean this
> musicalwise..his guitar playing seemed to be ok so
> far...well at least from what I heard from time to
> time.During Symphathy something was wrong with his
> guitar...he stopped the solo and went to Pierre
> the talked to each other, checked the guitar and
> so...
> during JJF & BS he was on fire again...I think.
> They playd about 1 hour 55 minutes and performed
> 19 songs.
>
> So all in all....it was , again, a high energetic
> Stones show...with Jagger setting the standard to
> higher levels....He alone, is worth the ticket
> price, The the band was on fire, the audience was
> hot, too....the sound was absoloutly aweful...it
> can`t get worse...and therefor I could not enjoy
> the show as I could , or better as I should.
> Keith was somehow strange...and now I am looking
> forward to Paris...where I will have normal FOS
> tix...and this is my experience from todays
> gig....being in the first ten rows is too
> close...the stage is too high...you can not see
> evrything whats going on stage....I mean the whole
> production ( stage, sound and performancewise has
> become so large, that, if you are really front
> row, the show is blowing away over your
> head....man kriegt irgendwie viel zu wenig mit da
> vorne...besser 10 meter weiter hinten stehen....so
> IMO the best place on a Stones gig is FOS about
> 10-15 meters from first row..just between main and
> bstage..this is the place to be..cause there you
> get both...perfect sound and perfect view.
>
> So Good night so far
> CUinParis
> Salar

Yes Salar, you're right in every word. But, I was row 20 which
is 18 meter from the stage. Sound was sucking anyway. But I don't
wanna write any further because I'm totally angry that they didn't
deliver what they asked for...


Was meinst du mit "sediziert"? Wie ich schon schrieb, sieht das wie
Schlaganfall aus. Ich hoffe ich täusche mich wirklich!

Many doctors on the board. Does anyone no anything for sure?

eeek - is it too late to cancel my trip to paris?!

*and i'm just like that bird - singing just for you*

Nelson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many doctors on the board. Does anyone no anything
> for sure?


Have you been there?

You don't need to be a doctor. You just need eyes to see
and ears to listen...

"i think these pictures can join the famous running Vietnamese girl from the 1970s as some of the world's most depressing."

Thats got to be up there with one of the most stupid things you could say!!!!!

the singer not the bong Wrote:


>
> i think these pictures can join the famous running
> Vietnamese girl from the 1970s as some of the
> world's most depressing.

and I think this comment is probably one of the most disrespectful and tasteless things I´ve ever read, if meant seriously----

[www.fr-online.de]

Online review in Frankfurt´s biggest local newspaper.
In short words:
Great atmosphere, poor organisation (seating plan exchanged, ticket sales),
great show, Mick was spectacular, Keith wasn´t

YPatrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Then Sympathy, I don´t know what happened.
> Keith played his solo on Ronnie´s side when all of
> a sudden Charlie got up from his drumstool and
> left his drums. Of course he came back two seconds
> later, but don´t have any idea what was wrong,
> probably some technical issue.

The fact that Charlie also stopped playing and left
his drum was really astonishing to me. At first I thought
Keith was leaving the stage to the right site before he
came back and went to the monitor mixing desk (beneath
the brass section). At least it was very strange even
if it was a technical problem either.

Has anybody watched Keith when the show was over and
Mick, Charlie and Ronnie already left the stage (Mick
always is the last to leave) when Keith came back,
took a drink out of his red cup. Was going, came back,
took a cigarette and his lighter and lit his cigarette,
made a joke and then left? Funny?

>> The fact that Charlie also stopped playing and left his drum was really astonishing to me.

that happened during SFTD at the third-or-so US show in 2005 too - was it Hartford?
i think the witnesses finally decided it must have been that Charlie wasn't hearing the loop or clicktrack
or whatever he needs to hear, and Keith was ready to murder the technicians

>> Mick, Charlie and Ronnie already left the stage (Mick always is the last to leave) when Keith came back <<

last year i heard some reports of some little "Glimmer Battles" over who would be last to leave the stage -
maybe it's an ongoing theme ...

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> The fact that Charlie also stopped playing and
> left his drum was really astonishing to me.
>
> that happened during SFTD at the third-or-so US
> show in 2005 too - was it Hartford?
> i think the witnesses finally decided it must have
> been that Charlie wasn't hearing the loop or
> clicktrack
> or whatever he needs to hear, and Keith was ready
> to murder the technicians

Not even an amateur (I'm one) will stop playing in that
case. Do you really think Charlie is a drum machine that
needs a clicktrack to be able to play the drums?

"Just one small point about Keith's paunch: liver damage as such cannot cause mental deterioration"

--THAT´S SO WRONG,DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT???----------------------

Heavy alcohol and drug use doesn't only create liver damage, but even worse - "brain damage".

"Brain damage" of course has a huge impact on his guitar playing - fx. intervalls of few seconds black-out, a loss in memory, does he know what he is playing, is he always aware of the situation, does he remmeber the words etc.

It seems it is the latter that bugs him..... probably also has impact on his creative work - fx. writing new songs for new records. Macca can make new records, Clapton can, Mick can - Keith????

------------------


I am 100% with you bumbum.

it is true that no one knows what is going on with keith, but it is 100% sure that his brain doesn´t work correctly (sorry for my english, i am german).
What causes that we don´t know, that´s true. but it´s not the point, what it is, his condition is bad, keith recognises that, he and noone around can obviously fix it. that´s the point.
Sorry but i saw it myself, am experienced to judge things like that, and no longer really discuss if he might only be out of shape.

I really wanted get into the show and i would also go see them if they were 100 years old and play only 5 % in shape, i´d always go see them.

last night i found myself in fear with every next song that they might mess it up completely. and really 80% of the songs were a problem, not a lick here and there, but complete parts. Mick and Charlie and also the background band have a very hard job these days.

i don´t want to be in their skins, so many shows to come and it´s really hard work, actually dangerous for the reputation of the stones and for sure no fun at the moment. If you know Mick you can see it. he would love to be on his own running up and down and let the band do the work, but right now that´s impossible.

The only good thing is to see, that obviously without Keith it doesn´t work, but we knew that before.

To whoever wrote that:

"Just one small point about Keith's paunch: liver damage as such cannot cause mental deterioration"

--THAT´S SO WRONG,DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT???----------------------

Heavy alcohol and drug use doesn't only create liver damage, but even worse - "brain damage".

"Brain damage" of course has a huge impact on his guitar playing - fx. intervalls of few seconds black-out, a loss in memory, does he know what he is playing, is he always aware of the situation, does he remmeber the words etc.

It seems it is the latter that bugs him..... probably also has impact on his creative work - fx. writing new songs for new records. Macca can make new records, Clapton can, Mick can - Keith????

------------------


I am 100% with you bumbum.

it is true that no one knows what is going on with keith, but it is 100% sure that his brain doesn´t work correctly (sorry for my english, i am german).
What causes that we don´t know, that´s true. but it´s not the point, what it is, his condition is bad, keith recognises that, he and noone around can obviously fix it. that´s the point.
Sorry but i saw it myself, am experienced to judge things like that, and no longer really discuss if he might only be out of shape.

I really wanted get into the show and i would also go see them if they were 100 years old and play only 5 % in shape, i´d always go see them.

last night i found myself in fear with every next song that they might mess it up completely. and really 80% of the songs were a problem, not a lick here and there, but complete parts. Mick and Charlie and also the background band have a very hard job these days.

i don´t want to be in their skins, so many shows to come and it´s really hard work, actually dangerous for the reputation of the stones and for sure no fun at the moment. If you know Mick you can see it. he would love to be on his own running up and down and let the band do the work, but right now that´s impossible.

The only good thing is to see, that obviously without Keith it doesn´t work, but we knew that before.

Occasional crappy sound, hitting boner notes, mistakes, gaffs, laffs and Keef's antics are a grand part of the Stones charm, seperates them from the pack and what makes the Stones The Stones.

If you want stale and sterile generic perfection, then go see Depeche Mode.

sorry, for some reason i posted twice.

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Have you been there?
>
> You don't need to be a doctor. You just need eyes
> to see
> and ears to listen...


It is not that simple I think. Been to Werchter and Nijmegen, Keef's side FOS both times, I think I saw a lot of him. A friend of mine who I always travel with to see the Stones is a doctor. He could't say any exact or proper thing about Keef's condition.
How can you explain that he makes big mistakes in a song - he completely forgot every lyrics and licks for Wanna Hold You in Werchter, but very after that he gave us a beutifully sang and played version of Slippin Away. Or, in Werchter he was total good in CYHMK, hard riffing, he knew all the changes, Rocks Off Werchter was one of the best version I have ever seen, and Keith was the top engine of that song. And he f*cked up HTW, Satisfaction, or JJF afterwards.
Of course he is in bad shape, but I think in Werchter he was very drunk too.
In Nijmegen he had his black holes here and there, but was in a better form comparing to Werchter, and it is simply untrue that he plays bad all the time. There he was a master of riffing and licking in IORR, She Was Hot, It's All Over Now ...etc. and despite the mistakes in intros for songs like Happy, JJF, thesse songs turned into great versions.
Keef was in very bad shape last year in Milan and from Vienna he was getting better and better while at the end of the Euro leg last year he was in a good form.
Sorry, Bjornulf, that this quote is a bit off here...