neptune Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Both are mediocre guitar players trying to
> become as goo a
> > Muddy Waters' guitarists, but Brian is a truly
> > excellent harp player and a real American blues
> > fanatic.
>
> Brian was not a mediocre guitarist. Actually,
> from 1962 to 1965, Brian was widely considered to
> be one of the best guitarists in the rock/blues
> scene, drawing the admiration of guys like Jimmy
> Page, Bo Diddley, Alexis Korner, and Muddy
> himself. This is what Muddy had to say while
> watching Brian play some slide at Chess in 1964:
> "That one over there ain't bad!" Brian was the
> best slide guitarist during much of the 60's until
> Duane Allman, Ry Cooder and Mick Taylor emerged
> late in the decade. This idea that Brian was a
> mediocre guitarist is nothing but a myth.
>

Well, yesterday I listened to the Singles Collection (The London Years) disc 1 and disc 2, and it struck me again: Brian hardly plays guitar at all. It seems Brian never really was the "guitarist" of the Stones: he was their harmonica player, and a truly excellent one at that. I remember reading an interview with him where he expressed he considered himself a harmonica player, not a guitarist.

On the Singles Collection he only seemed to pick up the guitar when the harmonica really wasn't needed. And when he plays guitar, it's always just the basic chords, just laying down the rythm part, mostly tremelo picked. His slide playing is nice, but nothing spectacular. Most of the times it's fairly shaky, including the brilliant lead in I Wanna Be Your Man and the legendary Little Red Rooster. I personally think that the main reason Brian went on to play the myriad of exotic instruments because he was so limited on the guitar. He was just a far better harmonica player and inventor of great parts on mellotron, marimba and flutes. Also think he just wasn't needed on guitar anymore, as Keith became better and better. In guitar player circles, Brian is never mentioned as some sort of influence, but people always mention his influence on his lifestyle, his way of clothing and his rebellious image.

Mathijs

Does anyone remember the following : If I'm not mistaken I recall reading a review in some music trade paper about 10 years ago where some artist (and for the life of me I cannot remember his damn name) had recorded and included on his record a song written by Brian Jones of the stones--it was kind of a big deal in the review and I think it was described as a folksy-type number--I cant remember the songs title or the artist who recorded it, but I know I read it-- I believe the magazine was Musician-- I know I'm not nuts or stoned-- I know I read it--
did anyone else ?????

Brian's lyrics made it to a CD in 1990. The poem, titled "Thank You For Being There" was written by Brian, adapted to music by Carla Olson and performed on CD by Krysia Kristianne and Robin Williamson. Is this what you are thinking of?


bob r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone remember the following : If I'm not
> mistaken I recall reading a review in some music
> trade paper about 10 years ago where some artist
> (and for the life of me I cannot remember his damn
> name) had recorded and included on his record a
> song written by Brian Jones of the stones--it was
> kind of a big deal in the review and I think it
> was described as a folksy-type number--I cant
> remember the songs title or the artist who
> recorded it, but I know I read it-- I believe the
> magazine was Musician-- I know I'm not nuts or
> stoned-- I know I read it--
> did anyone else ?????

AT this time ,they K. ,B. and E. tried to play like there heros from Chicago did.K. was the nobody, B. played the star and Eric was the talent.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And when he plays guitar, it's always just
> the basic chords, just laying down the rythm part,
> mostly tremelo picked. His slide playing is nice,
> but nothing spectacular.


When it comes to Brian's guitar playing, we have to realize that he was a product of the 1950's Chicago electric blues scene. Brian's idols were Muddy Waters and Elmore James and his goal as a guitarist from the beginning was to play just like them. He did a very good job I must say! Keith was more of the conventional rock guitarist where soloing was all-important. But I think we should not make the mistake of judging Brian's guitar abilities on today's standards because the art of guitar playing has evolved leaps and bounds since the late 60's. For his time, especially between the years 1962 to 1965, Brian was a very good to great guitarist who, along with Keith, helped inspire an entire generation of rock/blues guitarists to do their thing and explore new frontiers. I believe Brian's electrifying slide solo on I Wanna Be Your Man was hugely influential, charting a new sonic path for rock music. Brian never became a virtuoso in the vein of Clapton, Beck, or MT, but he was still a gifted player who would have probably returned to the guitar had his life not been so tragically cut short.

"The guitar is my bread and butter." -Brian Jones, 1965.

Aha! but let's not forget D., who in his time was better than G., K. AND the notorious H., after all, S. became only famous after playing with L., M., C. (who accidentally is related to R.!!) and the Big B.
there you go!


brainer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AT this time ,they K. ,B. and E. tried to play
> like there heros from Chicago did.K. was the
> nobody, B. played the star and Eric was the
> talent.

Wow, what a thread!

Erik_Snow Wrote:

> Gazza, strange that you mention it. It's being
> released by a Japanese label right now.
> -----
> BRIAN JONES 1DVD-R (+Ltd.1CDR) A DEGREE OF MURDER:
> 40th Anniversary Special Edition IMP-501V < 1DVDR:
> Complete Movie With IMP Original Japanese
> Subtitles + Ltd.250 Only Bonus 1CDR: Soundtrack Of
> The Movie




As a follow up, I just bought this from idolmind on ebay straight from Japan. Didn't cost that much and the bonus soundtrack CD is groovy too.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a follow up, I just bought this from idolmind
> on ebay straight from Japan. Didn't cost that much
> and the bonus soundtrack CD is groovy too.

You did ?! cool
I've been thinking about picking it up too...but I never got around to,
is it good ? Outdated ?

Erik_Snow Wrote:

> You did ?! cool
> I've been thinking about picking it up too...but I
> never got around to,
> is it good ? Outdated ?

I've never seen the film, so it's all new to me. The soundtrack is of better quality than the boot that's been posted elsewhere and with more tracks.

It's a nice set, complete with a small biog and sticker.

Regarding Brian songwriting, this is taken from EYE Magazine March 1969...







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-26 15:52 by His Majesty.

> BRIAN JONES 1DVD-R (+Ltd.1CDR) A DEGREE OF MURDER:
> 40th Anniversary Special Edition IMP-501V < 1DVDR:
> Complete Movie With IMP Original Japanese
> Subtitles + Ltd.250 Only Bonus 1CDR: Soundtrack Of
> The Movie


So the movie is in German with Japanese subtitles? Are there English subtitles as well?

Glam Descendant Wrote:

> So the movie is in German with Japanese subtitles?
> Are there English subtitles as well?

The movie is in English thankfully.

>The movie is in English thankfully

Interesting, I wasn't aware of a version dubbed in English. Can you tell if Anita dubbed her own lines?

Thank you for the article His Majesty. Very nice. Never knew this. I wonder what the backing track was. At least that was recorded. Maybe Gold Painted Finger Nails? Or something that remains to be discovered.

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >The movie is in English thankfully
>
> Interesting, I wasn't aware of a version dubbed in
> English. Can you tell if Anita dubbed her own
> lines?

It's definitaly Anita's voice. The film was originally in German?

>The film was originally in German?

Yes, Mord und Totschlag was the title. Since it was from the 60s I should have presumed there was an English language dubbed version, I've just never come across one. More info here:

[www.imdb.com]

Glam Descendant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >The film was originally in German?
>
> Yes, Mord und Totschlag was the title. Since it
> was from the 60s I should have presumed there was
> an English language dubbed version, I've just
> never come across one. More info here:
>
> [www.imdb.com]

I think it must be the US version then as some of the actors voices are distinctly American.

Silkcut1978 brought up that the vinyl version (counterfeit) had good artwork. I beg to differ. I have a copy and the artwork looks like a poor scan of the original and the inside artwork is like back to front, totally unlike the original with bits missing, also the word necrophilia is around the wrong way on the spine. The pirate has 2 extra tracks (Think & Let The Good Times Roll) which are not on the sleeve tracklisting of the pirate or the original. One side of the record label has Somethings Just Stick In Your Head as opposed to Mind. The artwork brought up by Rockman is of the original outer as shown in the book Not Fade Away. Of course all this has nothing to do with the original thread, but serves as a timely warning about counterfeit items as opposed to bootlegs. A friend of mine payed a large sum of money thinking he was buying a rare find. Be careful. Have a good day.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a scholar I know you can never prove something
> doesnt exist
> from the lack or sources.


Yes you're right Baboon, and in the same stretch: I don't really exist too, but there is indeed no way you'll ever be able to prove it! The only traces you'll find of me are digital and electronic, cyberspacian... for all you know, I can be a virus...

Tell me sweety, what's my name?

Cirus.

I don't know if it's been mentioned on this long thread,
but according to Barbara Charone's book on Keith,
Jack Nitzche (I believe) said that he heard some of Brian's songs
and said they "were'nt right for the Stones. They were about falling leaves in the park." NOw perhaps they were just a verse and a chorus or just
snippets of ideas, but Jones DID write songs, or at least attmept to.
Perhaps a lack of confidence oh his part.
I know many musicians who are like that regarding writing.
Also, Andrew Oldham may have had a lot to do with this.
I've gotten the impression that Oldham and Jones never really got along,
hence the Mick-Keith-Andrew trio.
Also, I heard Oldham on Sirrus radio the other day saying
that he never really liked keyboards. Perhaps another reason why Stu was kicked out?

Obviously Brian impressed Alexis, Mick, Keith, Charlie, Bill, etc back in '62, and his spirit shines through quite clearly on those early (1963 - 65) Stones records...From his marvelous, shivery slide to his aggressive rhythm playing with its ringing harmonics. For a nice KR/BJ 'weave' (sorry) check 'Confessing The Blues'...Obviously he lost interest in the instrument, but continued to add imaginative contributions on other instruments through '67, and his progressive minded intelligence, arrogance, vulnerability, and narcissism were essential to what "we" (me in retrospect) perceived the Stones to mean in the 60s.
I've mentioned it before, but ADOM is both an interesting film and a Stones artifact thanks to B's & Anita's involvement, and A's role itself. The soundtrack is good, tho there are no 'songs' - just top UK musicians playing Brian's score. And I've read in many bios that BJ was working with various musicians during his last weeks - jamming, collaborating, who knows?. Usually Mick Waller is mentioned, and Korner who supposedly heard what he was working on. Jones' next project may have come to nothing, but the very fact that he was working - Why does this seem so unlikely?

Hi John R,check my reply at the bottom of page 2 on this topic regarding Alexis and other musicians at Brian's place.

DGA35, thanks for unclouding my memory...Interesting, Waller split the Beck Group around February '69 (replaced by Tony Newman), & Hendrix's Experience toured during spring '69, but was near the end - early '69 studio sessions never produced an album, and Noel Redding split that June. Mitchell of course would return later for future Hendrix projects, but these musicians seem entirely possible for the time period....

I was going to start a new thread but then I'd have linked to this thread so I thought I may as well add to the old thread - does anyone have any more information about these songs?

Aah, it was fun - even a bit embarrassing I admit - to read cursively this thread again - we haven't have these hot-blooded Brian Jones threads for some time... The hottest thraeds had been aout SOME GIRLS lately, and of course, the eternal Taylor-Wood-debate...

- Doxa

Going back to that article i posted above, i reckon the other Wyman track he mentions is on the Satanic Sessions box sets. There's a track where Bill seems to be explaining the changes etc to Nicky etc.

Can't remember which one it is right now though.

Mathijs states on top of this page that Brian mostly played harmonica/harp. Can anyone identify which songs he played and on which songs it is Mick who was also highly regarded as a harmonica/harp player?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-28 21:34 by JJHMick.

Quote
neptune
Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And when he plays guitar, it's always just
> the basic chords, just laying down the rythm part,
> mostly tremelo picked. His slide playing is nice,
> but nothing spectacular.


When it comes to Brian's guitar playing, we have to realize that he was a product of the 1950's Chicago electric blues scene. Brian's idols were Muddy Waters and Elmore James and his goal as a guitarist from the beginning was to play just like them. He did a very good job I must say! Keith was more of the conventional rock guitarist where soloing was all-important. But I think we should not make the mistake of judging Brian's guitar abilities on today's standards because the art of guitar playing has evolved leaps and bounds since the late 60's. For his time, especially between the years 1962 to 1965, Brian was a very good to great guitarist who, along with Keith, helped inspire an entire generation of rock/blues guitarists to do their thing and explore new frontiers. I believe Brian's electrifying slide solo on I Wanna Be Your Man was hugely influential, charting a new sonic path for rock music. Brian never became a virtuoso in the vein of Clapton, Beck, or MT, but he was still a gifted player who would have probably returned to the guitar had his life not been so tragically cut short.

"The guitar is my bread and butter." -Brian Jones, 1965.

Didn't Stu said that Brian was the best guitar player in England? Can't remember who quoted Stu, but it was in one book.

Quote
silkcut1978
His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's rumours!
>
> Of course it's likely that Brian recorded music at
> home, he was a musician with tape machines...
> NOTHING has ever surfaced though!


No rumours, they're for real.

"unverified" means just that ... there is no verification that they exist. At this point there is no proof, hence they are still rumours.