for all the people who have seen more than one thus far: what concert was the best so far on the european leg?

IMHO

Atmosphere: Milan
Setlist: Vienna
Performance: Draw Berlin and Cologne

P

Peterh, did ya see all gigs sofar??

for us:

vienna- setlist and homecountry
milan- cause of the firsts for us
berlin- cause with had our kids with us and sway
munich-cause of beers

robert and claudia from austria



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-25 11:12 by austrianstones.

Peterh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMHO
>
> Atmosphere: Milan
> Setlist: Vienna
> Performance: Draw Berlin and Cologne
>
> P

Exactly my opinion too.

They are all the same (except Milano "con le mie lacrime")

austrianstones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> for us:
>
> vienna- setlist and homecountry
> milan- cause of the firsts for us
> berlin- cause with had our kids with us and sway
> munich-cause of beers
>
> robert and claudia from austria

Vienna - homecountry & first of this tour
Munich- right side FOS
Berlin- left side FOS,my impression it was best show so far I`ve seen on this tour(haven´t been to Hannover & Cologne)

But can I really compare my impressions? Each concert and every city has its own athmosphere which leave a individual mixture of unique impressions in everyone´s memories.

Here is my impression of the Cologne show...wake up 'fans'...Ronnie Wood is sinking the Stones:

The day broke hot and dry. The BIGGER BANG tour rolled into an awful steel and brick arena - with all the charm of a toolbox - in the middle of Germany called Rhein-Energie Stadion. The atmosphere was friendly and festive outside the structure. The well [over]-fed burghers of the 'Ruhr' area of Germany milled around in languid anticipation. By now The Rolling Stones are an institution, so tickets will be sold. But rolling into this much-delayed European Tour without any fresh material - either newly recorded or gleamed from 'A Bigger Bang' - is, in my opinion, a mistake. No new single is on the airwaves...and no video is to be seen. This robs the band of a certain amount of 'Buzz', and makes the long hot days of Summer 2006 longer still. 'A Bigger Bang' is now nearly a year old, and in this media-saturated world, that is an eternity. For the European leg of the tour why couldn't the Stones release a new single/video to refresh the memory of their fans to excellent new material like "Laugh, I Nearly Died", or a hidden classic like "Dangerous Beauty"? Such material would also freshen their stage repertoire and add a more challenging and more contemporary atmosphere to their presentation. No...the Stones of the Europe 2006 seem to be coasting. And this is deadly.

The modus operandi of a Rolling Stones concert is rather predictable. For a band with the richest and most evocative song-catalogue in the history of rock music this is a shame and nearly unforgivable. Yet normally, if the Stones are “on” one can overlook the predictability of the set chosen for large football arenas…the “fans” in these barns are mostly musical tourists looking to relive the clichés of “Brown Sugar” and “Start Me Up”, and are not interested in being challenged with the epiphany of a “Sway”, the heartbreak of an “All About You”, or the sophistication of the long-forgotten “Fingerprint File”.

Yet when the only new material played from their supposedly best album in over 20 years are 2 interchangeable [albeit blistering] rockers like “Oh No Not You Again” and “Rough Justice” – rockers that are similar to about 75 other such songs in their songbook - and a lovely ballad [“Streets Of Love”] one must ask the question “What are the Stones thinking?…”.

I do not expect a “Some Girls”-Tour-like blitzkrieg of 8-9 new songs in the middle of the set like in 1978…but a funky “Rain Fall Down” and a bluesy “Back Of My Hand” and perhaps an evocative “This Place is Empty” would have made for a more contemporary and bracing performance. Instead we got “She’s So Cold”, “Let's Spend The Night Together”, and another perfunctory “It’s Only Rock and Roll”. Not exactly spine-tingling stuff for the Stones fan that still wants them to be relevant to TODAY…not just fodder for the nostalgists in the crowd.

And herein lies the problem…if the Stones are “on” and firing on all cylinders, then even their unadventurous football-stadium set-lists sparkle with glimmers of fire and heat. But when they are less than on their game their intellectual laziness, weaknesses [and, thankfully, strengths] are exposed for all to see.

And on this night – as on countless other nights - their fatal weakness was Ronnie Wood. As a guitarist he has been a mostly erratic and uninspiring live performer for most of his stint as wingman to Keef Riffhard. What the Stones gained in camaraderie and on-stage buoyancy when he stepped in for Mick Taylor 31 years ago, they lost in sheer power and musicianship. On some nights, when he is concentrated and sober and playing professionally – as in the Licks tour show I saw in London 3 years ago – one can almost justify the loss of a fallen blues-guitar-God like Mick Taylor because Ronnie does a passable job and his licks are tasty, if derivative. On these nights Ronnie seems to give the Stones the wingman they need to make their music soar…and one can look back and assuage the heartbreak of losing a true virtuoso like Taylor.

But on nights like last night in Cologne, a true fan is furious at the Hand Of Fate that robbed the Stones of a man that could make the music soar upward, and instead gave us Ronnie, the silly clown mugging on the side of the stage with a fag in his lips and sinking song after song with clamorous and pathetic “solos”. Is he drinking again? Is he free-basing again? Is he trying to sabotage the Stones on stage with his ridiculous stabs at finding a melody line for his forays into "solos" and then pumping his arms in the air after playing 2 chords, like a 3 year old that wiped his own ass for the first time? Whatever he is doing I wish he would go do it somewhere else, and at someone else’s expense.

I know that readers of this review section expect to read adoring and glittering reviews of the Stones as they conquer arena after arena. Well, grow up and wake up. Go write for a fanzine or something. This section should include the unvarnished truth…good or bad…about the Stones. From true fans...not slobbering sycophants. And the news from Cologne is that IT WAS NOT A GREAT CONCERT. In fact parts of it were downright depressing. Sir Jagger should do the following…walk into Ronnie’s room before the next show in Paris and say, “One more show like the one in Cologne and you’re fired…out…gone”. If Ronnie repeats his Cologne shtick in Paris the Stones will get flogged by the press, I guarantee you.

As a veteran of over 30 Stones shows – and every tour since the Tour Of The Americas in 1975 – I have seen ticket prices climb from a then-outrageous $15 to a price of over €200 [$260] on this tour…for seats on the TRIBUNE half-way up to the clouds!!! For these prices the least one can expect is a professional guitarist to step on stage and deliver the necessary licks to make the Stones groove and swing. Either get it together fast…or you’re fired, Ronnie. You’re no longer reliable…and at these prices that is not acceptable. Not any more.

And the strengths of the Stones? Many. Keef is still the best rhythm guitarist in the world. Though his solos on some rock numbers have all the grace of a drunken bird attempting flight [he is not nor has ever been a true lead guitarist, and his weakness in this area is amplified on this tour because his cohort Mr. Wood provides little to no assistance], his guitar licks on the slow ballads and blues numbers are perfect and wonderful. And on the rock numbers his rhythm guitar attack simply defines all that is Sacred and Profane in Rock music. And his voice was terrific on his songs…amazing. He is a God. Charlie Watts is the Rock Upon Which The Stones Are Built. Enough said. Darryl is a terrific bassist. And the rest of the crew are top professionals. And what Chick Leavell lacks in funky swagger he makes up for in organization and perfectionism.

Lastly...and most importantly, Sir Mick Jagger remains the most amazing performer in rock history. His voice has IMPROVED dramatically at this late stage of his amazing career. Gone is the arena-rock-bullfrog-roar of many tours past. His singing on “As Tears Go By” and “Streets Of Love” was a revelation. His clarity of tone and phrasing are a miracle…and he carried the band the entire show in Cologne. I actually felt sorry for Everybody’s Lucifer as he danced and sang and attempted to make the songs soar…and had to watch as Ronnie Wood sank them into the murky crowd whenever the guitar breaks came. I never thought I would feel compassion for Mick Jagger. On this night I did. He embodies professionalism and transcendent charisma and talent. He deserved better. So did I. So did everybody who paid hard-earned money on this show. The clock is ticking. Is anyone listening?

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

The clock is ticking. Is anyone listening? NO!

Interesting review, Turd. Cant comment on Ronnie's performance as I wasnt there (I thought he did Ok in Berlin, for what its worth) but theres some points you make that are pretty valid. And even though I dont agree with every word of it and its painful to read at times, its better argued that the "whoo!! The Stones rocked!!" type of reviews that rarely have much substance or depth to them.

"This section should include the unvarnished truth…good or bad…about the Stones. From true fans...not slobbering sycophants" - this bit is very true. Most people can accept reality and discern between whats good and what isnt.

Unfortunately, some are so intent on putting the band on some kind of pedestal of infallibility that their personal agenda with anyone not quite as sycophantic ends up being quite laughable. No doubt you'll get rubbished for daring to 'attack' the band that as a customer youve paid good money to see, and some of the more positive things you mentioned will be conveniently overlooked..lol

I don't think it is fair or even normal to spend half a review on trashing an individual and permanent band member. And any review that is listing the name of a former guitarist that quit more than 30 years ago is normally biased.

Bjornulf

Hanover was the best of the four I have seen so far (didn't go to Milan). Hoping for more great shows in Paris, Amsterdam, Stuttgart, Dübendorf and Nice!!!

bv Wrote:
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> I don't think it is fair or even normal to spend
> half a review on trashing an individual and
> permanent band member. And any review that is
> listing the name of a former guitarist that quit
> more than 30 years ago is normally biased.

I dont think the quote below is that biased or unfair, Bjornulf, to be honest, all hes emphasising is that both guitarists have different styles:

On some nights, when he is concentrated and sober and playing professionally – as in the Licks tour show I saw in London 3 years ago – one can almost justify the loss of a fallen blues-guitar-God like Mick Taylor because Ronnie does a passable job and his licks are tasty, if derivative. On these nights Ronnie seems to give the Stones the wingman they need to make their music soar…and one can look back and assuage the heartbreak of losing a true virtuoso like Taylor.

I'm assuming Turd is referring to the 29.8.03 Wembley show. Ronnie was fantastic that night

I will be FOS in Stuttgart on the 3rd of August...hoping that what I saw from Ron Wood in Cologne was an anomaly...or a bad dream...yet knowing that it wasn't. I love the Stones heart and soul...and it is difficult for me to watch Ronnie sabotage the band in such a manner. If he has indeed fallen back into an alcoholic haze it would be most unfortunate. Let's face it...he wasn't around for much of the recording of 'A Bigger Bang' due to this problem. And now his live performances have become so erratic that it threatens the performance of an otherwise great band. This is serious. He was in rehab whilst Keef rested from his head injuries...he was in rehab during most of the 'A Bigger Bang'recordings...this is a pattern of unreliability that sickens me the core...he has become a terrible liability to the Stones. I could forgive this if he were Brian Jones...somone that brought so much genius and dimension to the music of the band...but not Ron Wood. I am willing to bet that Mick Jagger is equally disgusted and has given Ronnie an ultimatum before the Paris shows.

I sadly missed out on the gig in Cologne (where I'm living). But listening to the Vienna show, I'm getting scared: They really sound like a spent revival act more and more and the guitar playing is clearly below par. Best (and most telling) moment is when Keith deadpans: "Yeah...the show must go on" and then proceeds with a moving "This Place Is Empty".

And you're right: It's Jagger's show now.
Let's hope they shape up!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-07-25 15:26 by Greenblues.

I saw Vienna and Munich - Vienna was my favourite as it is my hometown and I loved the atmosphere and setlist. Munich was better performance wise, in my opinion. Keith wasn't that good in Vienna.


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

Turd on the Run! I actually agree with you on many points. It's amazing how Jagger's voice has improved over the years, and only in the last three years, too! And Keith's come back, with a better voice than in decades, it's comming close to a miracle in my ears...
Then there's Ronnie. On the show's I've seen so far in Europe: Milan, Munich, Hannover and Berlin, he's done OK. Not brilliant all the time, but OK. I understand you're of the opinion that in Cologne, he messed up? I don't know, as I wasn't there. But if he did, and it's because of his alcoholism, then that's sad. If it was only a bad day at work, then there's forgiveness for that! (I have a few of those every month!)
But I find it rather a waste of time calling for Mick Taylor every time Ronnie's in trouble. He quit. He was not a team player. The chemistry didn't
feel right. He wanted a solo career. His decision must be respected.
And what about the Stones if Ronnie hadn't joined? I don't think they wold still exist as a band if it wasn't for him. His diplomatic skills when the Glimmer Twins hated eachother's guts, his little white lies and huge efforts to try to make them communicate again, his great sense of humour, his love for the Stones' music... The list goes on. In my opinion, Ronnie's been kind of like the glue that keeps the band together. Sure he made a fool of himself now and then. But I'm willing to forget and forgive. He's given me so many wonderfull concert memories, so many fantastic solos (like on Can't you Hear Me Knocking on the Licks Tour). He has a huge account in my heart - the Golden Moments account. But if he's in trouble and drinking heavily... We really should support him, not bash him here. But to clean up ones act and improve at work - that never killed anyone. Smoking (when you have emphysema) and drinking (when your liver's half rotten) is not a great choice. But I really hope, from the deep of my heart, that Cologne was only a bad day at work...

Gazza...you're absolutely right...I was referring to the 29.8.03 Wembley show...and Ronnie was very good that night. The best he had been since 1975 when I saw the Stones literally blister Madison Square Garden in New York. Actually it was the first time since 1975 that I could say Ronnie was a damn good guitar player. But he has reverted to his 1982-1999 form and is nearly musically irrelevant on stage, save for his smiling and throwing off a a few picks into the crowd.

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

You seemed quite impressed with Ronnie's performances from what I recall, Lorenz?

Turd On The Run Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
and
> throwing off a a few picks into the crowd.

. . . "guess i won't be needing these!!"

I´m sorry you are so disappointed, Turd on the Run.
I haven´t been to Cologne, but from my other three concerts I left very "satisfied", it was especially Ronnie who added the good vibes and the fun - and the notes Keith sometimes tends to leave out.

Hi Shidoobee...your points regarding Ronnie "And what about the Stones if Ronnie hadn't joined? I don't think they wold still exist as a band if it wasn't for him. His diplomatic skills when the Glimmer Twins hated each other's guts, his little white lies and huge efforts to try to make them communicate again, his great sense of humour, his love for the Stones' music... The list goes on. In my opinion, Ronnie's been kind of like the glue that keeps the band together..." are very well taken. The Stones without Ronnie's diplomatic skills would have probably imploded [but surely come back together...the Glimmer Twins cannot live without each other...face it] and he deserves gratitude from me, you, and every Stones fan for this. But what we are discussing here is MUSICAL ability and professionalism...not personal politics. You and I both work for a living...and what the Stones are charging per ticket would dictate that every member of the band RESPECT THE FANS and their devotion to the band. A performance like Sunday's is utterly disrespectful to the legacy of the band, and the fans who have participated in that legacy.

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You seemed quite impressed with Ronnie's
> performances from what I recall, Lorenz?

I was indeed! I listened to many bootlegs from the US leg of the ABB tour and many solos from Ronnie on TD, YCAGWYW and SMU were simply awful. It got better as the tour went on as in my opinion especially the Saitama show reveals. In Vienna Keith had some black-outs, but Ronnie was definitely playing alright! I don't expect him to play like in the 70ies because obviously those days are over, but he did fine and I was so glad he got some structure in his solos. Moreover, he seemed very focused on both the Vienna and Munich shows. We all know he loves to gesture around, throw picks (he saw my Ronnie&Fiends show shirt and threw me a pic 3 times in Vienna!), etc., but he played fine for sure!


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

lovin' the duplicate posts, turd - hell, why not put them in the 'Just Got My Twickenham Tix' thread also?

Like I said...apologies...but I think this is serious and I want to know what others are thinking. I'm happy my post has stimulated this kind of discussion...it goes much further than the usual 'fan-chat'...and this is my first time ever in a 'chat forum'...

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

Turd On The Run Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Shidoobee...your points regarding Ronnie "And
> what about the Stones if Ronnie hadn't joined? I
> don't think they wold still exist as a band if it
> wasn't for him. His diplomatic skills when the
> Glimmer Twins hated each other's guts, his little
> white lies and huge efforts to try to make them
> communicate again, his great sense of humour, his
> love for the Stones' music... The list goes on. In
> my opinion, Ronnie's been kind of like the glue
> that keeps the band together..." are very well
> taken. The Stones without Ronnie's diplomatic
> skills would have probably imploded and he
> deserves gratitude from me, you, and every Stones
> fan for this. But what we are discussing here is
> MUSICAL ability and professionalism...not personal
> politics. You and I both work for a living...and
> what the Stones are charging per ticket would
> dictate that every member of the band RESPECT THE
> FANS and their devotion to the band. A
> performance like Sunday's is utterly disrespectful
> to the legacy of the band, and the fans who have
> participated in that legacy.


I didn't see Sunday's show, and not the one in Vienna. (But the rest of them) But let's say that you're right about that one, OK?
Of course one must respect one's employers and one's audience. However, If the problem is the bottle, then he has no control of that. It's a disease... Then it's not about lack of respect or lack of will to improve and do a great show. It's about the need for alcohol that's taken control of the person...

When it comes to ticket prices - yes, high. But in my opinion, I get what I'm paying for. I get the best. I would not pay 450 USD to see Madonna in the MSG. Or anywhere else. But it's a bit unfair to compare with ticket prices from '75 and thereabout. The salaries have rocketed to the sky, too. Inflation is both a friend and an enemy. (Friend if you have mortgages, as it eats up your debts. Enemy if you have money in the bank, since it eats up your savings)

In 75, we didn't get a stage this huge. It'senormous and they have to have 3 I think. A ZILLION dollars have been put into making the show specatcular, not only musically speaking. So when ticket prices are high, it's not only due to greed... There are several mouths to be fed. I think there are 250 people on the road... It's not just about the bank accounts of 4 skinny, grown up Brittish Gentlemen. We seem to forget that.

I'm still of the opinion that Mick Taylor's leaving the band (30 years ago...) was the best thing to do, both for him and for the Stones. He had developed unhealthy habits, and if he'd stayed - he might not have been alive. He was not working in a health farm. It was The Rolling Stones.

I agree with what you said, Turd - if Ronnie did play as bad as you and others indicated than it is indeed a shame. I hope that the next concerts will have him back in better form and make the concert enjoyable for everyone.
A solo from Ronnie that doesn't make you feel embarassed is the least one can expect for the price of the ticket!


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

shidoobee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turd on the Run! I actually agree with you on many
> points. It's amazing how Jagger's voice has
> improved over the years, and only in the last
> three years, too! And Keith's come back, with a
> better voice than in decades, it's comming close
> to a miracle in my ears...
> Then there's Ronnie. On the show's I've seen so
> far in Europe: Milan, Munich, Hannover and Berlin,
> he's done OK. Not brilliant all the time, but OK.
> I understand you're of the opinion that in
> Cologne, he messed up? I don't know, as I wasn't
> there. But if he did, and it's because of his
> alcoholism, then that's sad. If it was only a bad
> day at work, then there's forgiveness for that! (I
> have a few of those every month!)
> But I find it rather a waste of time calling for
> Mick Taylor every time Ronnie's in trouble. He
> quit. He was not a team player. The chemistry
> didn't
> feel right. He wanted a solo career. His decision
> must be respected.
> And what about the Stones if Ronnie hadn't joined?
> I don't think they wold still exist as a band if
> it wasn't for him. His diplomatic skills when the
> Glimmer Twins hated eachother's guts, his little
> white lies and huge efforts to try to make them
> communicate again, his great sense of humour, his
> love for the Stones' music... The list goes on. In
> my opinion, Ronnie's been kind of like the glue
> that keeps the band together. Sure he made a fool
> of himself now and then. But I'm willing to forget
> and forgive. He's given me so many wonderfull
> concert memories, so many fantastic solos (like on
> Can't you Hear Me Knocking on the Licks Tour). He
> has a huge account in my heart - the Golden
> Moments account. But if he's in trouble and
> drinking heavily... We really should support him,
> not bash him here. But to clean up ones act and
> improve at work - that never killed anyone.
> Smoking (when you have emphysema) and drinking
> (when your liver's half rotten) is not a great
> choice. But I really hope, from the deep of my
> heart, that Cologne was only a bad day at work...


Agree with pretty much all of that, shidoobee (there you go, we do see things similarly once in a while... ). Lets hope Cologne was merely a blip or a bad day at the office. We all want him to do well and clean himself up, although its a bit frustrating for everyone (and his family most of all) that he seems to have a half-assed attitude towards sorting out his problems and the inevitable consequences if he doesnt. That said, its a lot easier to judge it from our position than his.

Turd on the run, I have to admit you're right. I called it the Stones died in Cologne (whereas I thought it was already in Hannover). For those also having been to Hannover know that it wasn't a "bad day at work".

Sparks don't fly anymore. They are only more or less musical jerks administering their backcatalog.

At least I won a bet with some friends as I bet you can read next day on IORR what a great show it has been!!