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dedospegajososQuote
DoxaQuote
dedospegajosos
Overdubbing with a new performance is one thing, copying and pasting from the studio version is a new level of mediocrity ...and also stupidity
Hmm..I get your point and feel your sentiment, but what does it really matter from where the over-dub derives from? That of Jagger hammering the part one to one again, or using the already recorded 'original'? A studio over-dub and 'non-authentic' all the same.
More that of stupidity I would call it more like laziness... Or pragmatic reasoning.
- Doxa
Imagine Get yer ya yas out! overdubbed with the original studio tracks instead of the re-recorded newly performed parts...
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Taylor1
The important thing is that there are no overdubs on YaYa’s of the instruments except the rhythm guitar on Carol, which was insignificant to the overall performance to begin with. It is a”live” album
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Rocky Dijon
Putting out "Fortune Teller" and "I've Been Loving You Too Long" with fake audience noise was shameful, though hardly unheard of in the 1960s. It would have been better to release the two songs as bonus studio tracks rather than pretend they were performed in concert, but it was a different era and labels and producers didn't care as much about "product" having integrity.
Overdubbing YA-YA'S and other live albums will always irritate purists, but fixing live recordings in the studio doesn't bother me the way the hideous edit on LIVE LICKS does. Minimal overdubbing of a live recording is just a correction by the artist because they don't have a better version to substitute and don't wish to cut the song from the album track listing.
Replacing the rhythm guitar track from the live performance of "Bite My Head Off" with the original studio recording's guitar track is not comparable, sadly. It reduces the live recording to miming, if only in part. I realize many artists rely on tour production tracks in concert because of health or age to ensure their performance is as perfect as possible. The difference there is they're using tracks that were cut during tour rehearsals until their voice or fingers recover. Presumably, this otherwise inexplicable substitution was made to expedite the process and not miss the Christmas market for the live album. Hopefully this late period blunder is never repeated. I realize few people have the album and even fewer will care, but it does seem tastelessly disingenous.
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Doxa
...
Maybe it is a new low - if we forget for the sake of the argument the old GOT LIVE tracks - but I think it is more a case of semantics at this stage. Like Dylan put it, "I used to care, but things have changed"...
- Doxa
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Stoneage
Shattered, Tumbling Dice and, maybe, Sweet Sound of Heaven are the listenable songs on the live CD. The others, except JJ Flash, are simply unlistenable fake recordings.
Simple as that. No need to defend or overanalyze that.
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Spud
This is perhaps one of those where we should respect the contrary opinion , agree to differ, and not get too upset about it .
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DoxaQuote
Spud
This is perhaps one of those where we should respect the contrary opinion , agree to differ, and not get too upset about it .
C'mon, Spud, I don't think anyone is here upset at all about the opinions differing or being contrary or whatever. Or at least I don't see that. I think this is a great discussion with different point of views. And everybody's equally right!
- Doxa
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treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
Spud
This is perhaps one of those where we should respect the contrary opinion , agree to differ, and not get too upset about it .
C'mon, Spud, I don't think anyone is here upset at all about the opinions differing or being contrary or whatever. Or at least I don't see that. I think this is a great discussion with different point of views. And everybody's equally right!
- Doxa
Hang on. If one is to disagree with your point that "everyone is equally right", where does that leave your point?
Right?
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Stoneage
Shattered, Tumbling Dice and, maybe, Sweet Sound of Heaven are the listenable songs on the live CD. The others, except JJ Flash, are simply unlistenable fake recordings.
Simple as that. No need to defend or overanalyze that.
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treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
Spud
This is perhaps one of those where we should respect the contrary opinion , agree to differ, and not get too upset about it .
C'mon, Spud, I don't think anyone is here upset at all about the opinions differing or being contrary or whatever. Or at least I don't see that. I think this is a great discussion with different point of views. And everybody's equally right!
- Doxa
Hang on. If one is to disagree with your point that "everyone is equally right", where does that leave your point?
Right?
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DoxaQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
Spud
This is perhaps one of those where we should respect the contrary opinion , agree to differ, and not get too upset about it .
C'mon, Spud, I don't think anyone is here upset at all about the opinions differing or being contrary or whatever. Or at least I don't see that. I think this is a great discussion with different point of views. And everybody's equally right!
- Doxa
Hang on. If one is to disagree with your point that "everyone is equally right", where does that leave your point?
Right?
Fake news! I didn't say anything about points. I said that every body is equally right. You know, your body is perectly fine, it fits for you, mine to me, etc. Well, if not, doctor or plastic surgery helps...
- Doxa
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SpudQuote
Doxa
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Maybe it is a new low - if we forget for the sake of the argument the old GOT LIVE tracks - but I think it is more a case of semantics at this stage. Like Dylan put it, "I used to care, but things have changed"...
- Doxa
You were the right the first time . .. "..laziness or pragmatic reasoning."
I suspect the decision to release the Racket show was pretty last minute and this was just the quickest an easiest way to fettle it.
Shame it was needed ... but no big issue in my book.
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Doxa
Well, let's say that I am not that annoyed by this latest...Maybe it is a new low - if we forget for the sake of the argument the old GOT LIVE tracks - but I think it is more a case of semantics at this stage. Like Dylan put it, "I used to care, but things have changed"...
- Doxa
I hear very little difference between Jagger’s vocals on the bootleg tracks and Get Yer Ya Ya’s Out .And you are overstating the overdubs.Arr they on every track? So if it bothers you, listen to the bootlegs.They show a great band playing great.There is also the Street Fighting Man on YouTube from one of the MSG shows where Mick yells at the end,”We Gotta Go”,which is not on the Ya Ya’s album which is better and has the original vocals.Also I like to listen to the songs without the vocals just to hear how great the band soundsQuote
DoxaQuote
Taylor1
The important thing is that there are no overdubs on YaYa’s of the instruments except the rhythm guitar on Carol, which was insignificant to the overall performance to begin with. It is a”live” album
Hmm.. so vocals are not that important part of a performance? I've seen this attitude pretty often that over-dubbing or 'fixing' - to use Rocky Dijon's word - vocals 'do not really matter'. But I don't buy it. When I go to see The Stones I am not going to see The Shadows. What Jagger does there - the noise he makes - is a big part of that experience. Now, if I'd like to have an authentic documentation of that show, those should be included, not to be substituted by some studio recording afterwards. To me vocals is an integral part of the band sound, one of the most important and distinguished instruments. To do something about it, is as as much breaking the rules of authenticity of a live performance than any of the other instruments. Nothing wrong with that, but that should apply to other things as well, if we are to be consistent. No double standards.
- Doxa
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godzi68
...Unfortunately, “Tell Me Straight” was a big disappointment for us. Not that it’s bad or heartfelt, but it needed to be a rocker. We already have DOY, DS & SSOH, so we didn’t need a Crosseyed Heart leftover...
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godzi68
Thanks Doxa & treaclefingers! In another 5 or 6 months, my rating will definitely go up but I wanted the songs to sink in a bit first. If I compare HD to my 3 favorite 5 star albums (Some Girls, Let It Bleed & Sticky Fingers), it's not quite there... and I don't think it ever will hit 5 stars for me. But with all the factors involved, it's one really, really good album to listen to!
godzi68
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LeonidP
Hey godzi,Quote
godzi68
...Unfortunately, “Tell Me Straight” was a big disappointment for us. Not that it’s bad or heartfelt, but it needed to be a rocker. We already have DOY, DS & SSOH, so we didn’t need a Crosseyed Heart leftover...
I felt the same way, and said as much in my first review, day 1 of release. Not that I thought it was bad, just that I was hoping for a rocker such as Trouble or Happy. But by my follow up a couple days later, I already changed my tune (not literally!). I think Tell Me Straight is excellent. It's short & simple but just a really nice song, love the guitars and especially Keith's vocals (& Mick on backup!). I consider it one of the many highlights of the album!
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treaclefingersQuote
godzi68
Thanks Doxa & treaclefingers! In another 5 or 6 months, my rating will definitely go up but I wanted the songs to sink in a bit first. If I compare HD to my 3 favorite 5 star albums (Some Girls, Let It Bleed & Sticky Fingers), it's not quite there... and I don't think it ever will hit 5 stars for me. But with all the factors involved, it's one really, really good album to listen to!
godzi68
I'd sort of rate it as tier 2
1. SF, EOMS, BB, LIB, Tattoo You, Some Girls (no particular order)
2. ENHM, Now, OOOH, Aftermath, BtB, IORR, Black & Blue, Undercover, Hackney Diamonds....Flowers, though a compilation is mostly "new".
Even tier 3 Stones for me is better than most other bands.
3. 12x5, TSMR, GHS, Voodoo Lounge, B2B, ABB, Blue & Lonesome
Tier 4 need not be discussed.
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godzi68Quote
treaclefingersQuote
godzi68
Thanks Doxa & treaclefingers! In another 5 or 6 months, my rating will definitely go up but I wanted the songs to sink in a bit first. If I compare HD to my 3 favorite 5 star albums (Some Girls, Let It Bleed & Sticky Fingers), it's not quite there... and I don't think it ever will hit 5 stars for me. But with all the factors involved, it's one really, really good album to listen to!
godzi68
I'd sort of rate it as tier 2
1. SF, EOMS, BB, LIB, Tattoo You, Some Girls (no particular order)
2. ENHM, Now, OOOH, Aftermath, BtB, IORR, Black & Blue, Undercover, Hackney Diamonds....Flowers, though a compilation is mostly "new".
Even tier 3 Stones for me is better than most other bands.
3. 12x5, TSMR, GHS, Voodoo Lounge, B2B, ABB, Blue & Lonesome
Tier 4 need not be discussed.
Wow, that's a pretty close rating to what I think as well! And the great thing about it is, look at all the fantastic music we have from the boys!